Elizabeth: November 1561, 1-10

Pages 384-396

Calendar of State Papers Foreign, Elizabeth, Volume 4, 1561-1562. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1866.

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November 1561, 1-10

[Nov.] 639. The Protestants to the Emperor.
1. The Pontifical party charge the advocates of the Augustan Confession with being the source of all the existing evils, and they retort the accusation, especially as the latter aim at the establishment of Christian union and an agreement in doctrine.
2. They affirm that they have departed from the papacy in consequence of its scandals, abuses, and idolatry; and they thank God that these evils have been removed by the authority of His Word.
3. The Emperor having also expressed a wish for unity, and suggested the expediency of summoning a Council, it is answered that this measure has often been unsuccessful. They have appealed to such a Council, if it be free, general, Christian, and celebrated in Germany, and ruled by the Word of God and not by the Pope, who ought to submit himself to the Council. They again repeat their application.
4. They perceive, however, that the Pope has appointed this Council to meet at Trent, as appears by his Bull of Plenary Indulgence, which is dated at Rome, 17th Nov. last, A.D. 1560, and there to continue its sessions.
5. They have already demanded, and again repeat the demand, that in this Council the Princes of the Confession of Augsburg shall have votes equal in authority to those of the Pope and his followers.
Copy. Endd.: 1561. Lat. Pp. 2.
November. 640. Shakerly to Throckmorton.
1. If he were to write on every light occasion Throckmorton would be loath to read his letters. Desires not to do amiss, and yet it is almost impossible for three sorts of persons not to lie sometimes, which be hunters, pilgrims, and writers.
2. The King of Navarre is in himself pentito to have so hastily gone forward to please Mr. Cardinal, to have his faculty, showing to a Signor of importance in this Court his secret, and that if the words that he has spoken therein were to say, that in their place should other things follow; and has given the King a new governor in the place of M. Sipeore, called the Prince de la Rochesurion, for which the King is in anger; and on Wednesday night (the same day that this governor was made), the King did almost eat no meat. The which the Queen Mother understanding went to comfort him, to whom he answered nothing, but asked wherefore M. Sipeore was no more his governor, and that he would no other, to which the Queen answered nothing. The next morning the new governor after saluting the King willed him to go and play in the great hall, as he is accustomed, to which he answered that he would not play, and turned towards his schoolmaster and went down to Mass, whereas came not M. D'Orleans. A few days ago il beati predicator [Beza] and his adherents, having drawn out all the Romish doctors who have spoken anything of the images and idolatry, set forward to the place of dispute, where, before the Court, il beati said that he left the Romish Church on account of the images and idolatry, and brought forward the example of St. Athanasius. One of the other side said that they would need at least a month to answer this. To which the Constable cried out that it was a shame that they could not answer such a petit mot, and the Queen Mother commanded that within two days they should do so, which is to-day.
3. Touching the Cardinal's faculties, he is in great despair; for yesterday, he attained two letters from the King and the King of Navarre in his favour to Paris to the Council, which arrived the morning when they were in council, and so came too short to have their "pusans à effect," and it is judged that he is never like to have it more; for this new disputing will give him things to play withal whilst the Council lasts at Trent, or the Pope in the meanwhile goes to hell, and leaves the seat of Saint Peter in manibus latronum.
4. These things cannot end without some little civil war, for being come hither M. D'Aumale, and the Duke of Guise shortly looked for, there will be strange looks and sharp doings. Cannot get out wherefore M. Lansac has gone to Rome. The French will no more expend anything on Bulls and licences. The Annates or Crossato the King will have to pay his debts. The King of Spain's son came out of Spain this spring. Heard the Spanish Ambassador speaking to the Nuncio say, that he came to Genoa and into Piedmont to see the Duke of Savoy. This is more likely than that he should go to Flanders, because from Brussels there is no such news. Signed.
Orig. Hol., with seal. Add. Endd. Pp. 4.
Nov. 1. 641. The Queen to Lord Grey.
Understands by the letters of himself and Randolph the good disposition of the Scottish Queen to the maintenance of justice upon the Borders, for the furtherance whereof she has required his assistance in sundry points. He has already sufficient authority to take order in most of those things, yet he should write to Randolph to signify to the Queen of Scots that she likes her good resolution, and he is also to make proclamation against assisting any fugitives from the laws of Scotland, upon pain of death or imprisonment and fine. He is also to be ready, at such place and time as shall be agreed upon with the Wardens of Scotland, with a sufficient power to foresee that no Scotch offenders or their goods are received into England. Is to obtain promise of like assistance from the Scotch, and to confer with the other two Wardens.
Corrected draft. Endd.: 1 Nov. 1561. Pp. 4.
Nov. 1. 642. The Queen to Lord Dacre.
Repeats the instructions contained in her letter to Lord Grey, ordering him to make proclamation and assist the Scottish Warden. Directs him to confer with the other Wardens, and to do justice to the Master of Maxwell.
Corrected copy. Endd.: Mutatis mutandis, to Sir John Forster. Pp. 6.
Nov. 1. 643. Intelligences from Italy.
1. Rome, 18 Oct.—It is confirmed that Conté Brocardo carries with him to Spain the despatch of the grant of sixty galleys to be yearly entertained, for ten years, by the clergy, which will amount to 400,000 crowns per annum. The grant has been stopped upon a desire to understand King Philip's meaning to gratify his nephew, the Borromei, concerning certain pensions and preferments.
2. Fabritio Serbellone was sent to Spain by the Pope to open to the King the request of the King of Navarre. He had been previously sent to Avignon to consider what might be done to the fortifications thereof, in consequence of one named Parpaglia (a man of great learning and a "jolly man of war,") escaping from prison, who has since fled to the Court of France, which has put many imaginations into the Pope's head.
3. The Prince of Florence was looked for at Rome, to go to Naples, and take ship for Spain; the same order is taken for his entertainment at Rome as was taken for his father. The Conté of St. Fiore, Ascanio Della Cornia, Adriano Baglione, Francisco De Colonna, and others will go to Spain with him. His instructions are to offer himself to be married to one of King Philip's choice, and to declare to do him service.
4. Cardinals Gambara and Corregio have gone to meet Cardinal Farnese on his way to Rome, who has tryed out certainly that the Cardinal of Pisa forged the letter for which Lothrio was committed to prison. Last Saturday a judge who was committed to the galleys for false judgments, given at the instance of the Caraffas, was hanged on the Bridge.
5. M. De Chars, the King of Navarre's Ambassador, has left Rome and gone to Venice, from whence he has departed without doing any great business.
6. It is talked of delaying the Council for four months at the suit of the Emperor, and yet the Bishops continue to make a show to go forward shortly.
7. Venice, 1 November.—The fortifications of Bergamo will be tenable in twenty days. Divers images of saints and of our Lady have been destroyed in the night time, whereupon three persons were apprehended.
8. There were found in the monastery of the Convertite thirty-two nuns with child. A chaplain and a confessor of the same are committed to prison, " and are like to have sour sauce for their sweet meat."
9. From Constantinople.—The Turk has recovered from his disease. Cicala was committed to prison in the Seven Towers, and was allowed twenty aspri daily for his provision. His son was committed to the Seraglio, where all children and young men remain, who are taken in Christian countries. Being offered to have his head shaven, and to become a Turk, he desired rather to have his head cut off than forsake his religion; which being reported to the Turk, he commanded his officers to let him alone, not wishing to bring any from his religion by force; yet he gave order to persuade him thereunto; and offered if he would he should see his mother who was in the same seraglio, being taken some time before. Order was given for him to have a suit of garments of cloth of gold.
10. The Sophi's Ambassador had not yet arrived, but was expected daily.
11. The Turks lying in garrison about the frontiers of Croatia, to the number of 4,000 horse (a renegade being captain of them), laid themselves in ambush in an isle of the Save, intending to have made a course to a certain town, where there chanced to be a fair; but entering the town, for a time they prospered, but were so encountered that 900 were slain and taken, and in the chase many more were taken, or drowned.
Orig. Endd. Pp. 4.
Nov. 3. 644. Lord Grey to Cecil.
1. Received his letter of the 29th Oct. on 3rd inst. November, and has considered how the Lord Warden of the Middle Marches and he might apprehend the Lairds of Gaston and Barr in as quiet a manner as may be, which they will put in execution circumspectly and secretly, with Randolph's advice and their own industry. A servant of the Earl of Lennox, named William Forbes, has been in this town thirteen or fourteen days to receive intelligence from the Earl of Arran, and should have gone into Scotland with errands from the said Earl of Lennox, but is commanded to remain till letters come from thence to him. The writer is content to suffer this man's abode, because he will attempt to intercept his letters, and in the meantime offers him courteous entertainment that he may not be suspicious. If he finds cause by the contents of such letters to apprehend him, he fears lest that may keep the other men out of his hands. Desires Cecil to signify his opinion herein.
2. Lord John of Coldingham came this day to the Bound rode, and sent his priest of Dunbar to require Lord Grey that either Colwich or Hedley might come to speak with him. As Colwich was at Edinburgh with Randolph to declare against Lord Hume's delays, and Hedley busy, the writer sent Captain Browne and a soldier of Captain Reed's called Barret (otherwise Squibbes), to whom the Prior said that he would have spoken with Colwich or Hedley for intelligence of horses which were stolen from him by English thieves and output by Scotchmen, whose names he would have gladly learnt. He said to Squibbes that he would buy his horse for Lord Robert, his brother, because it was like to be a broken world in Scotland, and asked whether England would take any part among them. Squibbes said, No, for they bought too dear the last partaking. "Well then," said Lord John, "we shall have good bickering within ourselves." "And then," quoth the other, "shall we lie still in quiet." Thus with some other words they departed. Cannot conjecture what was meant by his coming hither. At Colwich's return will advertise what news he brings, with whom he thinks Lord John will speak at Edinburgh, whither he is ridden in post.—Berwick, 3 Nov. 1561. Signed.
Orig. Add. Endd. by Cecil's secretary. Pp. 3.
Nov. 3. 645. The Bishop of Aquila to the Count of Feria.
Recommends Sir Thomas Challoner, about to reside as Ambassador for the Queen of England at the Spanish Court. —London, 3 Nov. 1561. Signed.
Orig. Add. Endd. Span. Pp. 2.
Nov. 3. 646. The Bishop of Aquila to Don Luys Vargas De Figueroa.
Recommends Sir Thomas Challoner, about to reside as Ambassador for the Queen of England at the Court of Spain. —London, 3 Nov. 1561. Signed.
Orig. Add. Endd. Spanish. Pp. 2.
Nov. 4. 647. Sir Henry Percy to Cecil.
Has received a letter from the Lords of the Council concerning 100l. due by the writer to the Queen, and having made search in all his charge cannot find any such thing due to her. Reminds him of a letter from the Queen to the Duke of Norfolk for allowance of such reparations as he has made at Tynemouth; who having sent commissioners to survey the same, they have made the book, a copy of which he sends. Has been unable to get his allowance from the Lord Treasurer or the Treasurer of Berwick, amounting to 89l. Desires Cecil to help him to his money.—Tynemouth Castle, 4 Nov. 1561. Signed.
Orig. Add. Endd. by Cecil's secretary. Pp. 2.
Nov. 4. 648. Cecil to Throckmorton.
1. Sir Thomas Chaloner's departure has hung somewhat long, but now that he is despatched to bring home Sir Thomas Chamberlain, the Queen is at length minded for his [Throckmorton's] revocation, and has resolved upon Mr. Thomas Dannet; who is at present troubled with a quartan, and who as soon as he is well shall come.
2. The French noblemen have been well entertained. At Berwick they were well received by the garrisons of horse and foot; which, to make the better show, were purposely and secretly reinforced; and by the way order was given that they might see as many good shows of gentlemen and others in order to salute and accompany them as the places would permit, for the Frenchmen's better opinion of the populous provinces than perhaps they had. Sir Peter Mewtas has been in Scotland to call upon the ratification of the old matter. The Scottish Queen has answered that in that treaty are divers things that touched the late King, her husband, and therefore thinks it convenient to have a new meeting for such matters as touch her only. Among other things, her mark is to have the matter lately handled to Throckmorton by the Duke of Guise, which also Lethington opened here, to be principally dealt with. To which new meeting, although divers of the board think it meet to hearken, yet the Queen hitherto suspends therein. He does not dare be busy therein for fear of wrong construction. Sends a packet from Randolph. Hears that Lord James is made Treasurer of Scotland. The Queen continues still stiff in her religion, and yet has straitly ordered her subjects, for policy's sake, to be conformable to orders taken there.
3. The Queen has not had such good success this summer in Ireland as was hoped for. It was thought convenient to permit the Earl of Kildare to return home, where with the advice of the Lord Lieutenant he might parley with Shane O'Neale; and though the doings of the Lieutenant have been to the grievance of Shane (having spoiled much of his country and taken much of his cattle), yet weighing the Earl of Kildare's commission, and hoping to bring Shane to some conformity, and for other secret respects, with the advice of the rest there, he consented that the Earl should parley with him, whereat there was an agreement made. Shane's demands are, to have the Queen's pardon and protection, and likewise the safe-conduct of the Lord Lieutenant and Council to come and return safely to the Queen's presence; also the Earl of Kildare to come over with him, and the Earl of Ormond to accompany him to his embarking; to have 1,000l. delivered to him there, and another at his landing in England, the same to be repaid at his return, for which he gives pledges, and the garrisons in Armagh to be retired thence. Some of these import much to be consented unto, especially the revoking the forces from Armagh. But now the best must be made of it, and if it be thought good (to meet with the matter some kind of way) for a good intent in Shane's absence to cavil something against him or his for non-observing the covenants, and so having infringed the pact, to use the matter as shall be thought meet. Shane should be in England about the middle of this month. Order shall be shortly taken for Somers' return to Throckmorton.
4. Is (fn. 1) not at present well able to write. Sends Lady Fleming's passport. Thanks him for the Cardinal of Lorraine's oration; the adversaries will do well to answer it, and give solutions to his arguments. Thinks all foreign money will be made uncurrent here but the French and Burgundian crown.—From his house by the Savoy, 4 Nov. 1561. Signed.
Orig., with seal. Partly in Cecil's hand. Add. Endd. Pp. 4.
Nov. 4. 649. Cecil to Windebank.
1. Has received by Kendalle the amount of sums laid out since their departure, which exceed what the writer expected. Is presently not well in health. Thought he should have been charged with but one servant, but perceives they keep two, where one is able to serve the turn. Sees no necessity for keeping two horses, and would that he should cut off that part of cost, "for it doth become my degree well enough to suffer my son to go on foot."
2. "I had (fn. 2) no opportunity to write to Thomas Cecil, but wishing him better than methinketh he is disposed to deserve, these few lines may serve him to understand that I think most of my cost worst bestowed upon him, so he may amend what he can until January, for I see no cause why he should lose his time there much longer. Sir Henry Paget returned home with great commendation and fraughted with qualities; but I see in the end my son shall come home like a spending sot, meet to keep a tennis court." Windebank has used his diligence herein.—Westm., 4 Nov. 1561. Signed.
3. P. S.—"I marvel how ye suffered Thomas Cecil to retain the money for his hobby, and also to disburse as much for another horse as ye sold your two."
Orig., with seal. Partly in Cecil's hand, and add. by him. Endd. by Windebank: My master unto me, by Mr. Challoner. Pp. 2.
Nov 5. 650. Killigrew to Throckmorton.
Thanks him for Beza's oration. Mr. Cobham can supply what he omits in his letter. Throckmorton needs not send him, unless he has other cause. Thinks his writing to Lord Robert will serve to good purpose; but as concerning a present to be made to him before his coming hither, because Killegrew thinks it a thing impossible, he never spake of it and does not mean to do so. Will do what he can for his diets. Refers him for what he can do to Osborne and Somers. The trouble in Ireland is appeased, and John O'Neale, the great rebel, comes into England upon the Earl of Kildare's word. Encloses what was written to him out of Scotland. Letters have been found of a practice for the killing of Lord Robert.— London, 5 Nov. 1561. Signed.
Orig., much injured by damp, and in a fragile condition. Add. Pp. 3.
Nov. 7. 651. Lord Grey to Cecil.
Has sent his son Arthur to the Court to follow certain causes of the writer, and also to renew his own suit to the Queen, as he has written to her. Has commanded him to repair to Cecil for his good advice.—Berwick, 7 Nov. 1561. Signed.
Orig. Add. Endd. by Cecil's secretary. Pp. 2.
Nov. 7. 652. Lord Grey to Cecil.
Has sent with Sir Richard Lee the answer in particulars of such articles as were directed hither with him, who can declare his opinion and resolution in all such circumstances as Cecil shall desire to understand. Is driven to supersede until the return of Capell the declaration of his proceedings in the remedy of the excessive prices of victuals, in abating of house-rents, in stay of the engrossing grain within Northumberland, and in persuasion of the soldiers to bear the want of money, with such other things as he has in charge to certify.—Berwick, 7 Nov. 1561. Signed.
Orig. Add. Endd. by Cecil's secretary. Pp. 2.
Nov. 8. 653. Lord James to Cecil. (fn. 3)
Albeit he wrote not long ago concerning the affairs depending between their Sovereigns (whereof he abides the answer), yet finding this opportunity of his cousin's coming to England, he has thought good to remind Cecil of the aforesaid affairs. Things in these parts are in such towardness as they have good occasion to hope shortly better; refers the particularity of all things to his cousin. Being appointed to keep in the Queen's name a diet of justice on the Borders, the writer has understood much promptitude and offers to the furtherance of his said service from the officers of the Queen of England. Desires above all things to see mutual intelligence and love between their two Sovereigns.—Holyrood House, 8 Nov. 1561. Signed.
Orig. Add. Endd. by Cecil's secretary. Pp. 2.
Nov. 8. 654. Valentine Browne to Cecil.
1. Has advertised Mr. Bennett of the stay of the warrants which he prayed to have for the extraordinary charge. Cannot perceive that he has any warrant, but he alleges it has always been accustomed by virtue of his office, upon the breaking up of an army to retain as many artificers as he should think convenient, for the repairing of such ordnance, artillery, and habiliments as commonly in such a time are spoiled. The charges are for the repair of the ordnance and armour only, and not for that of the country, lying here and at Newcastle, not looked unto but utterly decayed. The charges will be but lost if some of the said artificers be not entertained to keep the same continually, who should be put into some of the captains' bands for avoiding of extraordinary charges.
2. Touching his receiving of Scottish money, he neither buys or sells with the Scots, or any man in these parts, but by reason of the want of money (he having paid his last to Randolph in August), there have been sundry merchants, who are creditors of the soldiers, in hand with him for their payment, who have offered him divers pleasures to help them, and have desired but his bill to pay them at London, which he has denied.
3. One Brian, a gentleman of London, has offered him 110l. of Scotch money for 100l. to be paid in London within forty days, which he took, and the victuallers of the town have earnestly desired the same of him, as if it had been English money, whereupon he has taken about 300l. more of other merchants, to be repaid at London for 2s. in the pound exchange. Has been attempted by Englishmen that for ready money to be delivered in Berwick he should have 4s. in exchange for every pound, which made him suspect their money, and was the occasion of his advertisement for the assay thereof. Now their money is disclosed, the exchange runs at 5s. and 6s. 8d. the pound, which appears to be rather a gain, for which occasion the governor and the rest have written not to have their money forbidden, lest they should be utterly void of traffic with them for their victualling. His opinion is not to make any proclamation in Berwick, but rather to maintain an exchange during this time of scarcity. More cattle, viands, grocery, and some apparel and other pedling ware are to be bought in Scotland for an English pound than for 30s. in any place in England, or than in Scotland for 40s. of their own money; which causes the countrymen to seek thither for cattle, and the merchants for wares; and when the pay comes, three parts will be surely conveyed thither. Understands that the mint in Scotland stays only upon the pay, at which time they think to have the English money for bullion, and then make a new coin of a baser standard. Cannot devise what order is best for redress hereof, but his opinion is as follows: To permit the currency of Scotch money in Berwick. To give order that no Border merchants or others should have traffic into Scotland with corn, cattle, or other things. (Hears that Berwick makes claim to be free on this point by charter, which should take no place upon this consideration.) To forbid the inhabitants of Berwick to grind their corn elsewhere than in the mills at Berwick. To restrain from Berwick, and all other fairs and markets of the country, all Scottish pedlars, cutlers, spurriers, shoemakers, etc., except such as bring provisions, and hay and straw. These restraints being looked unto and the offenders severely punished, which must come by express order and commandment, there is no way for them to come by the money but by their viands and provisions, being not the fifth part that by the other means is conveyed.
4. Scotland is at present (and commonly is once a year) in great penury by want of grain, therefore his device is (all others being restrained) to sell such grain as the Queen may well spare from time to time of her store, for their want therein countervails and is of more value than their viands, whereby they will recover the money, or at least have as much Scotch at its just value. If they have some of their money always there, order may be taken that no man carry for victual any English money out of the town, and if he do so the same to be forfeited, for when he has received the English money he shall come to the Treasurer and receive their own in exchange. If he had 1,000l. of their money he would undertake to keep a like mass, to give all men money for money, and if there shall be any gain it shall be the Queen's; but he dares not make any reckoning of a gain before a trial be made. There are other means, but forasmuch as they would hinder their pays, which he knows would be laid unto him, he will not enter upon them, for the want they now have (albeit it is not so great as it has been made) is wholly imputed to him.
5. The payment of the crews at Calais ran upon sterling table, and in the country upon moneys called great, there being no such coins that he has heard of. Notwithstanding they were made in current money of England, the King used to save an eighth part or more. Does not well remember the manner of it, but upon perusing the accounts with Sir Thomas Gresham some way resembling, the same may be found out, which would not only avoid the conveyance aforesaid, but also save the Queen some things that might certainly be reckoned upon. Stays to make answer to the Lords touching an information against him for engrossing grain, and thanks them for having his doings examined before giving credit against him. Has now served here more than a year, and desires that he may have leave at Candlemas to repair to make his account, the perfect estate whereof he will signify within ten days.—Berwick, 8 Nov. 1561. Signed.
Orig. Add. Endd. Pp. 6.
Nov. 8. 655. Intelligences.
1. From Rome, 1 November.—Don Francisco D'Este had arrived, and was lodged in the palace where the Duke of Ferrara formerly lodged, from whence within five or six days he departed in post towards Naples with forty horses. The Prince of Florence arrived here this day (1st Nov.), and was met by the way, by the Camarlengo and Cardinal Boromeo, accompanied by other Cardinals, etc., and was conducted to la Vigna de Julio. The Bishop of Terracina, who was lately sent as Ambassador to Spain, died there. The Pope immediately wrote to the Bishop's officers that the cost of the funeral should be disbursed by the Church, and his goods (his debts owing there first paid) should be disbursed amongst his household. It is thought M. Cruvello will succeed him. The Archbishop of Motula, nephew to the Cardinal of Pisa, has returned 500 crowns towards his costs repairing to the Council. A courier had arrived from the Cardinal of Ferrara, with information that the Assembly of the Clergy in France was broken up, and what was concluded by them. The Prince of Florence would depart shortly from Rome to Livorno and take shipping there, and would be accompanied with thirty-five of King Philip's galleys, and five of his father's. The Duke has allowed him for his diets, 8,000 crowns a month.
2. Venice, 8 November.—The confessor, or chaplain, delle Convertite was this day degraded, and on the Monday following was to be hanged, and then burned. There was found in his coffers 5,000 crowns, which he had pilfered by the consent of the prioress and some of the nuns, out of the revenues and commodities of the monastery.
3. Constantinople.—Cicala's allowance has been increased from ten aspri a day to twenty, which may amount to 6s.
4. Milan, 29 October.—Artillery and munition are sent daily from Milan towards the Venetian State. Twelve pieces were sent to Treccia, ten to Picighitone, and eight to another fort. The garrison were reinforced, the cause whereof is not known.
5. The cause of the fire at Valladolid, was by two or three pages leaving a candle negligently burning near some straw, which was in a new house where they were lying.
6. In Switzerland, the Ambassadors of the Thirteen Cantons met at di Valdo for some good end to be taken in the matters of Glaris.
Orig. Endd.: Advices from Venice. Pp. 4.
Nov. 9. 656. The Queen to Lord Grey.
Gives him liberty to enter within the borders of Scotland to confer with Lord James about the reformation of disorders. —St. James's, 9 Nov., 3 Eliz.
Draft. Endd. Pp. 2.
Nov. 10. 657. The Cardinal of Ferrara to the Queen.
Professes the same great devotion for her for which his house has always been conspicuous. Of this M. Moretta will inform her more specially, for whom he requests credence. —St. Germain, 10 Nov. 1561. Signed.
Orig. Hol., with armorial seal. Add. Endd. by Cecil's secretary. Ital. Pp. 2.


  • 1. The remainder of the letter is in Cecil's hand.
  • 2. From this point the letter is written by Cecil himself.
  • 3. Randolph to Cecil.