Appendix: Miscellaneous 1545 | British History Online

Calendar of State Papers Relating To English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 6, 1555-1558. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1877.

'Appendix: Miscellaneous 1545', in Calendar of State Papers Relating To English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 6, 1555-1558, (London, 1877) pp. 1628-1635. British History Online https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/venice/vol6/pp1628-1635 [accessed 19 April 2024]

Miscellaneous 1545



Sept. 2. Venetian Archives.	115. Jacomo Zambon, Venetian Secretary in England, to the Chiefs of the Ten. (fn. 1)
	Having on the 30th ultimo received your letters of 13th August about Lodovico Dalle Armi, I went immediately to the court, 16 miles hence, and hearing that the King would not return from hunting till very late, I remained there, and next morning early went to Secretary Paget, and requested him to speak to his Majesty about my audience, consigning to him the enclosures in your Lordship's letters from Harvel. Sir William Paget, after speaking with his Majesty, answered me that the King, having settled to go out hunting again on that day, apologised for being unable to give me audience, but that on the morrow I was to return to the Court, as his Majesty wished to speak with me. According to that order, I went to the Court yesterday, and heard that on the 29th ultimo his Majesty had received letters from the above-written Lodovico Dalle Armi, dated the 15th of that month, of the tenor told by his Majesty subsequently.
	On both days Secretary Paget and the Bishop of Winchester showed me much favour and honour (molti honorevoli favori) from respect for your Lordships, and yesterday evening the Secretary took me to the King, who the moment he saw me rose from his seat and came to meet me, almost to the middle of his chamber, receiving me very graciously; he then stopped short, to hear what I had to tell him.
	I then reverentially stated the cause of my coming to his Majesty thus, that three days ago I received letters from your Lordships about the matter which his Majesty would hear; and then I read your letters to his Majesty, stating the whole case to him clearly, word for word in Latin (except your confidential additional paragraph for my instruction), and detailing all the crimes of Ludovico one by one, and above all his having had the walls of Treviso scaled. The King listened to me most attentively until the end.
	On returning to sit in his place the King called Paget to him, and talked with him in secret for a long time. Paget then made me approach his Majesty, who answered me, “As I do not speak Latin fluently, the Secretary will remain here to assist me.” (Poi ritornò a sedere al loco suo, chiamò Paget a se, et ragionato seco di secreto lungamente, mi fece accostar presso di sua Maestà, la quale mi rispose, Poi perche non ho ben pronta la lingua a parlar latino, starà quì il Secretario ad aggiuttarmi.) He then continued, “I have heard the letters written to you by the Signory, and it truly displeases me inexpressibly that any subject of mine (che alcun di miei) should molest the Signory, and give them cause for resentment and displeasure, though in this case I know not what to say till I hear the other side likewise. Lodovico Dalle Armi will be here in two days; I shall hear what he will have to tell me (intenderò quel che mi saprà dire). I delight in justice, but I cannot do it until I hear the other party likewise. I perceive that the Signory writes the charges against the said Lodovico, but do not state the cause which induced his acts, according to which cause the offence may greatly diminish, and may also be greatly aggravated; and let the Signory be sure and certain that the aforesaid Lodovico and my men, having been at strife with the Signory's officials, did not intend to give offence to the magistracy, but because in Venice there are many Frenchmen, many from the Bishop of Rome, (fn. 2) and also other enemies of mine, my men thought that the Signory's guard were of that sort, and did not think they were officials. Then about the wounded Count Bua, as written to you by the Signory, I will also tell you what occurred as Lodovico Dalle Armi wrote it to me. This Count had promised him to come and serve me in this war, and after taking my money then refused to serve me, a fine feat as you see. As customary amongst soldiers, for this cause Ludovico wounded the Count. Nothing was done to offend the Signory; so pray them, out of respect for me and for my honour, to have consideration for my men, and to do by me as they have done towards others in more important cases than these are, and you well know whom I allude to (et voi sapete bene di chi voglio dire).” I replied, “Sire, I truly do not know to whom your Majesty alludes.” “Well, do you not know,” rejoined his Majesty, and after a pause said laughing, but with a laugh rather scornful than otherwise (ma con un riso pieno di sdegno più che d'altro), “I say, what the Signory did by the French; by the French,” repeating the words more vehemently the second time; “and well do you know it, though you feign ignorance of the matter. But my Secretary will tell it you more clearly.”
	I continued, that according to your custom your Lordships made me state sincerely to his Majesty the truth of these cases derived from the confession of the culprits, and from the processes; that if you do not write to his Majesty the causes of the said excesses it was because they are not in fact the causes admitted by reason; and that what Lodovico says or may say are excuses devised by him to palliate in some way his crimes, as usual with any guilty man. “Oh!” said his Majesty, “I only repeat what Lodovico writes to me, but should it be so there would be no great harm if from respect for me those Lords were to omit complaining of this so much as they do.” I rejoined, “Sire, the excesses are of such a serious nature, as you have well understood,” and I again repeated them all to him. “Well,” replied Paget, “his Majesty will write to Harvel (fn. 3) to inform himself about it.” I rejoined, “Your Majesty's ambassador is already very well informed about this, so that he, knowing the truth of these things, and the evil practices (et le male operationi) of the said Lodovico, answered those most illustrious Lords that they will greatly displease your Majesty, and that he knows that those Lords cannot proceed otherwise than they do, declaring that [your Majesty] will neither support nor favour any one of such a sort.”
	I then added to his Majesty that it was evident that the excuses of Lodovico were frivolous; alleging also to the King many proofs whereby even at night the guards are clearly discernible from enemies; and that even if the other excuse about Count Bua were true and good, Lodovico should seek justice from Venice, his Majesty having well said, that neither Prince nor any other just person like his Majesty would ever tolerate for any cause, that an individual should thus right himself in his Majesty's kingdom. “These are things,” said the King, “usual amongst soldiers, precisely for taking money and not serving, as this man did; how many of our own soldiers are hanged daily without farther right, in similar cases!”
	I said, “Sire, this is perhaps done, but not in places subject to common law, and although done in other places, it is less tolerated in the Republic's State than elsewhere.” The King rejoined, “In France, in England, and all over the world, when one takes money as a soldier, and then does not serve, they give him a dagger-thrust (una pugnalata) immediately; nor is any penalty exacted for it. I pray the Signory to have respect for my honour, with regard to my men, and for our old friendship, which has been such that never between the Signory and me has there been cause of dissension, and I also choose to hope that even at present no cause for dissension may arise between us.”
	I replied respectfully, “Most serene King, my most illustrious Lords have never given, nor do they now give cause for any dissension to your Majesty; to whom speaking reverentially, your Majesty can complain of no one but Lodovico Dalle Armi and his comrades, who by their illicit ways and grievous crimes, which I repeated one by one, have given cause for so seriously disturbing your Majesty, and those most illustrious Lords, who, at all times so far as in their power, did what was agreeable to your Majesty, and recently, from respect for your Highness, tolerated gatherings of captains and soldiers, which they never suffered previously.”
	“I thank the Signory,” said his Majesty; “the errors you tell me of were not done to offend the Signory; pray them in my name to delay, as Lodovico Dalle Armi will be here in a few days;” and this request he repeated several times with much earnestness and fervour. I said that I could not fail to transmit with all speed to your Lordships what he had said to me, for which he thanked me, praying me to do so speedily, as I promised; and when taking leave of the King, I said to him that heretofore he would have known always by facts the good will of the Republic towards him, and the Signory's desire to preserve the ancient friendship with him.
	On arriving in the hall, having been told by one of his Majesty's gentlemen that Secretary Paget also wished to say a word to me, I waited for him, and he coming out of the King's chamber drew me aside, saying, “You have heard his Majesty's desire; write it I pray you speedily to those most illustrious Lords, requesting them to be content, from respect for his Majesty, not to proceed so rigorously against his men who have been arrested, but to delay as he told you. Well do you know that when that great magistracy of yours (fn. 4) went three years ago by night to the house of the French ambassador, to arrest those secretaries and others who were hanged, how much armed resistance was offered by those individuals, not only those of the French ambassador's household but others likewise, both our (sic, your?)—subjects and foreigners, who remained guarding the French embassy for several days, and nevertheless the Signory did not punish them in any way. This you cannot deny, for well do I know it, as I was in France at the time.” I replied that on this occasion there were only the servants of the French ambassador, and that all the Signory's subjects who had offended and could be seized had been punished. Secretary Paget then said that I would not confess the truth, adding, “Beware of the Signory's letting the world know that England is less loved and esteemed by them than France. My King and the Signory have indeed many friends, but they are all feigned friends; the friendship between the King and Venice is sincere; there is no state or border for division between them; although we are remote one from the other, we are at least nigh to those who might be the enemies of both of us. What is opportune for this King is opportune for the Signory, both ruling with the same policy; now that his Majesty is in this war, it seems to him that the common cause is treated. This King hopes for every accommodation from those most illustrious Lords, especially when it treats of his honour, but much more at present, his Majesty having now commenced acquiring some credit and repute with the world by being able to have troops from some part of Italy.” The Secretary [Paget] had said to me before, “Now the King and Queen and their daughter are going to hunt; his Majesty invites you to accompany him.” I prayed his Lordship to thank the King greatly, and excused myself on the ground that I should not be able to return to London before night-fall (se non di notte), and that I had to write what his Majesty had enjoined me.
	Besides what I have already said, although I know how easily your Lordships may be wearied by such great prolixity, yet nevertheless endeavouring to write you the whole according to my feeble memory, I did so to avoid doing perhaps worse by omitting anything which might move your Lordships to form some resolve in one way rather than in another. It remains for me to tell you that yesterday morning I heard from a good quarter that these lords are now treating certain proposals to your Serenity, either of a secret league together, or similar matter, of which I could not learn any other particular; and that moreover I should also perhaps be spoken to about it shortly by the said councillors.
	London, 2nd September 1545.
	[Italian, signed and addressed.]
Sept. 3. Venetian Archives.	116. Secretary Zambon to the Chiefs of the Ten.
	With this opportunity, I will not omit telling your Lordships that I have elicited, on good authority at the Court, that Harvel and Lodovico Dalle Armi are at enmity, owing to their contradictory statements made lately to this King.
	London, 3rd September 1545.
	[Italian.]
Sept. 6. Venetian Archives.	117. Secretary Zambon to the Chiefs of the Ten.
	The day before yesterday Lodovico Dalle Armi arrived in this city. He left Vicenza postwise on the 23rd August.
	By his letters, which this King received three days before I could speak to his Majesty, Lodovico continued to disseminate many apologies for his misdeeds, not only in this city, but also at the Court, whither he went, chiefly to give his own account to the members of the Privy Council, supposing that the charges against him would be referred to it; so, as the Chancellor, who by his rank comes next to the King, was in London, I went to him yesterday morning, and read to him my statement to the King about Lodovico, and his Majesty's reply; telling his Excellency also that the case alleged by Paget, which took place three years ago at Venice, was a very different one, Lodovico having been first admonished by your Lordships to live quietly at Venice; and then, from respect for his Majesty, he was allowed to depart, although he had confessed to having been with those who attacked the captain and his guard, etc.
	The Chancellor listened to me as graciously as possible, evincing great regret for what the said Lodovico had done; ridiculing his excuses, and admitting the truth and soundness of my arguments. He answered me thus, “I am very sorry that this Lodovico, who is by this time one of our people (uno de nostri), should have committed offences (errori) of the nature that you tell me. In six days I hope to be at the Court, where, should this matter be treated in the Council, I promise you freely to state my opinion, which is, that these things displease me; and remain well assured that the King will act in such a way that the Signory will know how great a difference his Majesty deservedly makes between the information given by the Signory and the excuses of Lodovico.”
	The Bishop of Winchester then thanked me greatly for having on the 2nd instant sent his letters to the courier despatched by me to Antwerp, who was still at Dover on the 4th, being detained by stress of weather, the letters having been returned to his Excellency.
	Tomorrow I think of returning to the Court to hear the news, and also to perform offices with Paget and some other members of the Council in conformity with the intention of your most illustrious Lordships, to whom I most humbly recommend myself.
	London, 6th September 1545.
	[Italian, signed.]
Sept. 10. Venetian Archives.	118. Secretary Zambon to the Chiefs of the Ten.
	Since writing my last to your Lordships I returned to the Court, and seeing that Lodovico Dalle Armi had greatly diminished his imputations, deferring chiefly to the Secretary of State, I therefore returned to Paget, telling him that from respect for this King you again tolerated that captains and soldiers should muster at Venice and other places of yours, contrary to what you had ever previously permitted, and endeavouring to show by other arguments, as I had done to the Chancellor, how different were the crimes of this Lodovico and his comrades from the case of those alleged to me by Paget who, three years ago in Venice, defended the house of the French ambassador, insomuch that the English ambassador, to whom your Lordships had communicated these circumstances, knowing their truth and the evil deeds of Lodovico, had answered your Lordships that those acts will greatly displease his Majesty, who well knows that your Excellencies cannot act otherwise than you do, Harvel [the English ambassador at Venice] affirming that he will never support or favour any one of such a sort.
	While I was continuing my detail of these circumstances to Paget, and explaining to him what I had read to his Majesty and subsequently told the Chancellor about the said Lodovico Dalle Armi, Paget, interrupting me, said:
	“I have heard everything, for his Majesty told me all you read to him; and as to what you subsequently said to the Chancellor about Lodovico Dalle Armi, our ambassador had no such commission, and answered the Signory unduly. But to tell you the truth, whatever Lodovico did either from malice, boasting, or ignorance, we cannot consider it well done; and now that he has returned to us, the King, considering what you told his Majesty the other day, will no longer speak to him. Lodovico hoped (from what he did for his Majesty, which was much, but we also promise ourselves much more from him in future) to be well looked on by the King, and seeing that owing to your information the King will not speak to him, he complains to every one, saying that Count Curio, represented by you as being seriously wounded, is but slightly scarred on the face, which to say the truth is a great offence at Venice. Lodovico now demands that you be content to appear with him in our Council, and to say in his presence what you said to the King; Lodovico choosing to clear himself from all the charges brought against him by you.”
	I replied, “Well should I beware of doing such a thing, as in my opinion it is unsuitable that I, being the servant of my most illustrious Lords, and a public person, should come for judgment, and at strife, with a private individual, or that I should manifest to a private man what I have been commanded to make known to the King of England. Had he chosen, Lodovico was able to excuse himself elsewhere. To repeat in the Council what I told the King, without the intervention of Lodovico, is incumbent on me; nay, I pray your Lordship that when this case is proposed in Council, convenience be given me that I also, without the intervention of Lodovico, may inform its members of the truth. Afterwards in my absence you can hear Lodovico if you please; but that I should come with him to the Council as an equal to dispute, does not seem becoming to me, as I said, nor will I do it without commission.” “Well,” said Paget, “this has often been done by the Imperial ambassador here, who in the case of some corsair, came often into our Council to confute him. There is, therefore, no necessity for you to inform the Council, if you do not wish Lodovico to be present at it. I will propose the matter in the Council, because, as I told you, the King repeated to me all you read to him.” Paget then said, “Let us divest ourselves, I, of the person of the King's councillor, and you, of Secretary of the Signory, and let us talk a little together as private friends. We also have strict (gravi) and severe laws that no one do offend or kill his fellow man, notwithstanding which, from respect for some prince and lord we in many cases do not proceed with the usual severity. If in similar cases, the Signory chooses to proceed with the utmost severity, they may doubtless do so if it pleases them, yet it has been seen, as you tell me, that from respect for the King of England they allowed Lodovico to depart after he had attacked the guard. This I tell you (Paget said to me) as a private friend; and if the Signory acts graciously by any one else they have cause to do so by Lodovico, for I assure you he is as good a servant of the Signory as any one else; and I could show you many of his letters written to the King, at the present time, full of the good treatment he received from the Signory, of their wisdom, of the grandeur of their government, exhorting his Majesty on various accounts to hold them very dear and friendly, and coming to the conclusion, that in the whole world there was no State their equal.”
	I replied, “Sir, then for these causes, and for this good treatment, Lodovico was the more bound to beware of offending the subjects of that most illustrious State, and the State likewise, by his misdeeds, which my most illustrious Lords are certain have greatly displeased the King, so that their Lordships having been unable to seize Lodovico, his Majesty will take such proceedings against him as to prove to the whole world that what he did was contrary to his Majesty's mind.” Paget replied, “What can we do rightfully here against Lodovico even had he put more men to death in the Signory's state? Do you object to his being secure in England, after having committed the error in Italy (havendo fatto l'error in Italia)? This would infringe our liberty.”
	I replied that crimes like these of Lodovico offend international law (il publico), most especially he having had the walls of Treviso scaled, and that neither here nor elsewhere ought any respect to be had for him, as he who offends one friend offends the other, many instances being witnessed of this in similar cases of Læsæ Majestatis; wherefore the English Government ought promptly to proceed against Lodovico, that the whole world may be convinced that his actions displeased the King and were against his will. But Paget insisted that the King should make no farther demonstration against Lodovico.
	I informed the Privy Seal (fn. 5) also, a personage not only of great authority in the Council, but who always eats (mangia) and converses with his Majesty, and although I comprehended that his Lordship greatly disapproved of these circumstances, I nevertheless found that he was almost of Paget's opinion about taking any proceedings here against Lodovico.
	London, 10th September 1545.
	[Italian, signed and addressed.]
Sept. 20. Venetian Archives.	119. Secretary Zamron to the Chiefs of the Ten.
	The King allowed Lodovico Dalle Armi to enter his presence yesterday, receiving him as graciously as possible. It is affirmed at the Court that he will be sent shortly by his Majesty with an honourable commission beyond sea.
	London, 20th September 1545.
	[Italian, signed and addressed.]