House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 17 February 1607 (2nd scribe)

Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 1, 1547-1629. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.

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In this section

Martis, 17o die Februarii, 1605

Cloth Trade.

1. Reading : - B. For the true Making of Woollen Cloths.

Costs on Nonsuit.

1. Reading. - B. To give Costs to the Defendant, upon a Nonsuit of the Plaintiff, or a Verdict against him.

Pelham's Estate.

1. Reading . - B. For the better Enabling of Herbert Pelham, Esquire, to make Sale of the Manor of Swynsted, in the County of Lincolne, for the Payment of his Debts, and Advancement of his eldest Son's younger Children.

Seizure of Sheep.

Mr. Southwicke of Carlisle stood up, and reported, what Success he had with his Majesty's Letters the last Session, touching the Sheep, complained to be taken without Redress. -

That the Parties had their Price, at their own asking; and had 10 l. Reward for their Charges and Pains.

He also entereth into a Commendation of the Government and Tranquillity of those Parts, the Borders ; and

remembereth, what Slaughter there was, and Outrage, upon the Queen's Death : 40 Towns burnt: 500 Felonies and Murders.

Union with Scotland.

Mr. Wentworth beginneth the Dispute of the Union.

- Against the Point of Naturalization. -

First consider, how we stand; what the Law is. -

In H. VI. Time, a Precedent, that one, that discovered the Secrets of the House to the King, was dismissed of the House, never to be of the House, during his Life. -

Judgment against Judgment in several Times, and yet both good Law. -

In E. I. Time, Balyol had Part; the other, Part. -

From E. III. Time, no Homage by Scotland. -

Register, fol. 125. Action of Trespass.

225. Register, a Commission, recipere ad fidem, et pacem. -

Earl of Angus summoned to be.

42 E. III. they could not tell which Part was in the King's Allegiance, which not. -

When it is only Subjection de jure, and not de facto ; no Denizen by Birth. -

Lord Dyer, - Non habuit medietatem lingua. - Whether any Alteration by the King's Coming.

England and Scotland, una et alia respublica; - Alieni republica [a]. -

Two distinct Kingdoms, Two Commonweals. -

They acknowlege no Crown, no King, but of Scotland : We acknowlege none, but that of England. - Difference between the Person natural, and royal:

The Person natural begets Issue, not the Body royal. -

Terra subdita, else not terra subditorum. -

Rex Angliae, et Scotiae: Not so; but, Rex Angliae, et Rex Scotiae: Reges. -

Rex: - " I would be loth to live, to see the King of Scotland do Wrong to the King of England" -

Seised, in jure coronae, Scotiae; et, in ju coronae, Angliae. -

If there be Two Regalities, how One Kingliness or Kingship ? -

Subject to him, that is King of England, and yet not subject to the King of England. -

No Man hath seen God at any Time; yet many have seen him that was God. -

If the Sword of England subdue any Land, then in Subjection to the Crown of England. H. II. subdued Ireland. -

If we think the Law not to be so, not to declare it so.

Mr. Moore, contra. - That all, born sithence the King was King of England, be mutually naturalized. -

No Book-case can suit this Case: Never any such Precedent of Union. -

An Alien may purchase, and against all Men hath Right, but against the King. -

If you indict an Alien, you must say, " Out of the Obedience." -

No Place can distinguish the King, and his Subject. -

If a Scottishman commit Treason in Scotland, he may be tried in the King's Bench here. -

The King may make them all Denizens. -

Necessary, that many Cautions be made, upon Naturalization : Caution, for ecclesiastical Promotions; Caution, for our Lands ; Cautions, for our Trades. This to be considered by a Committee.

Sir Francis Bacon: - A Request, ut, cum calculis saffragiorum, sumant magnanimitatem reipublicae; not their own private States and Conditions. -

Put off private Considerations, and raise their Thoughts to the publick State. -

Several Degrees of Good, and several of Evil: Wisdom, if not attain to the Good, if we avoid the worst. -

If there be a Good. -

Jus civitatis, jus suffragii, jus petitionis, honorum: -

Capacity of Freedom: Voice in Parliament. - Naturalizing, for the Point of meum and tuum. -

1. Ob. Surcharge of People: - Ne forte sufficiat vobis et nobis. -

1. Abraham and Lot: - When their Families grew great, they divided. -

Never cite that. For great Variance and Mischief upon it.

Difference between Cattle in Pasture, and Men. -

Stock, Means, Acquaintance. -

Few Families planted in this Spring-time.

Men will shew their Poverty in a foreign, rather than their own, Country. -

No evident Token of Surcharge of People in this Kingdom : Many Waste, surrounded Grounds, Fishings. -

If we be pent in England, there is some Room abroad.

- Take away this Note of Foreigners, our Laws will come upon them unawares. -

If he had conquered, like Water into our Wine, a Commixture: Shall we now not be sensible, having it by a cheaper Meane ? -

Ante-nati Denizens. What -

Alien, a Friend, an Hostile. -

Lieges : Natural: Allegiance. -

An Alien Friend, for personal and moveable Things, hath Remedy; for Inheritance, none. -

Naturalization but a Reward of Allegiance. -

The Scottish Subject bound to defend us, if we had Invasion. -

Pisa subdued by Florence: Expedition of Charles V. into Brittaine. They revolted. -

The Turk thought to keep Moldavia. -

Provence, Millan, Normandy, Brittaine, several Dukedoms ; no Offer of Revolt. -

A Noise of an Heptarchy : We know not, whether a Story, or a Fable; because we are all naturalized. -

If there be not a further Union, by Naturalization, the Nature of Things must bear it, that these Kingdoms must break.- -

Last Point: What we purchase. - Surety, Greatness, though no Wealth. -

England, with Scotland united, with Ireland reduced, with Low Countries contracted, with Shipping maintained, a valuable Monarchy; the greatest, that hath been many Days. -

Money not the Sinews of War, but the Sinews of valiant Mens Arms. -

Spaine, that was subject to Rome first, Carthage after.

- Siracusa. - Dream of a Monarchy. -

We stand upon Pittances, and Reckoning.