House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 29 June 1607 (2nd scribe)

Lunae, 29 die Junii, 1607

Union with Scotland.

THE Committee, for the Amendments in the Bill of hostile Laws, met in the Court of Wards this Morning, and stayed till Nine a Clock.

Mr. Attorney maketh Report of the Committee, touching the Amendments and Provisions. -

The whole Cause, touching Witnesses, allowed by the Committee.

A new Proviso to the Proviso of the Lords, - A Precedent shewed by Mr. Sawyer. -

To reduce the Lord's Amendments to our own Sense in the first Penning. -

To that Purpose, to pray a Conference with the Lords, this Bill being of so great Importance.

A Precedent shewed by Mr. Bowyer, for the Amendment of the Lords Amendments. Sir Antho. Cope, - against the Point of Witnesses. - Not to refuse every lewd Fellow ; for most of them can say more, than any other Man. To refuse such, a notable Wrong in the Jury. The Jury unfit, of all other, to chuse the Testimony. - That this Point might he opened at the Conference.

Sir Geo. Moore: - The Jury most fit to chuse. When any Man may offer himself, most dangerous. A Brother will see his Brother need, but not bleed; therefore Fear of great Partiality.

Qui non vetat peccare, cum possit jubit.

Mr. Wentworth: - By Consent, Amendments may be of Amendments. Consensus tollit errores.

That it restraineth the Course of the Law of the Land for Witnesses.

Sir Roger Owen: - Qui peccat ignoranter, peccat remissibiliter. No Text in the Law of God, to hinder the Course of refusing of Witnesses. A Witness in all Law, if not competible, to be refused.

Mr. Yelverton: - To have Conference, touching the Clause of Witnesses, as well as of the Point of remanding.

Mr. Fuller, - against the Clause of Witnesses.

Mr. Wentworth: - To have both in Conference.

Sir Edw. Hobby, - for the Bill. -

Openeth the Bill in this Part; and declareth, how far the King doth extenuate his Justice, his Mercy, his Honour. -

The King, in this Bill, yieldeth, against his Commission, against the Declaration of Sir Wm. Seaton, against his own Protestation. - Not to have Conference, touching the Point of Witnesses.

Sir Wm. Morrice: - In the Beginning, as Snails; now, as Crabs. -

To have the Clause stand as it is.

Mr. Holt saith, that whosoever would not have us speak to the Clause, against the Liberty of the House. -

An Italian Proverb; " Tell me with whom you go, and I will tell you what you do." -

To have the Clause of Witnesses in Conference.

Sir Fra. Bacon: - The King's Solicitor -

Pignus pacis, amoris, et officii, securitates, et salutis, -

All Truths, in the Mouth of all Witnesses, not warranted to be accepted by any Scripture. -

When the Devil gave Testimony, that Christ was the Son of God, rebuked ; because (as all Authors expound) an unworthy Witness.

Q. Whether to have Conference upon the Clause of remanding: - Resolved, upon Voices.

Q. Whether to confer with the Lords, touching the Clause of Witnesses.

This Question being doubtful in the Voice it was desired, that it should be put again to Question, or the House divided:

Affirmed, that, upon Friday, the Committee inclined; upon Saturday, over-ruled, upon Question: Therefore fit to make a double Question.

Question made again. - Resolved, Not to have Conference, touching that Clause of Witnesses.

Letters Patents.

Sir Edw. Stanhope and Sir Geo. Coppin bring from the Lords Two Bills:

An Act for the Confirmation of all Letters Patents, and Grants, to be made by the King's Majesty, of any Copyhold Lands and Tenements, Parcel of any of his Highness' Manors:

Steward's Nat.

An Act for the Naturalizing of John Steward Esquire, Brother and Heir apparent to Patrick Earl of Orkney.

Conference.

Mr. Attorney sent with a Message, to pray a Conference, touching the Clause of remanding, and the Amendments inserted by the Lords.

Cavendish's Relief.

Committee - Cavendish, - To-morrow Morning, at Seven a Clock, in the Committee Chamber.

Steward's Nat.

1. Reading: - B. For the Naturalizing of John Steward Esquire, Brother and Heir apparent of Patrick Earl of Orkney.

Conference.

Mr. Speaker: - If the Lords require a Conference presently, whether the House will yield: - Resolved.

The Lords did enter presently into Conference, and the Bill carried to them by Sir Edw. Hobby,

Adjournment.

But the House did arise before Return of the Messengers.