House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 18 May 1621

Page 624

Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 1, 1547-1629. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.

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Page 624

In this section

Veneris, 18o Maii

Voices at Committees.

IN the cross Bills, between Morgan and Bowdler, as many as will come, to have Voice.

So for the Bill for the Tenants of Oldbury and Thornbury : - And the Bill to be considered of on Wednesday in Whitson Week, at Two of the Clock in the Afternoon, in Lincolnes Inn Hall.

So for Fletton Bill.

So, in Egerton's Bill, all that will come, to have Voice.

Causes in Courts.

L. 1a. An Act for the more indifferent Hearing of all Causes, and the Counsel towards the same, in all Courts.

The Prince's Tenants.


L. 3a. An Act for the perfect Settling and Confirmation of the Estates, and Customs. - Upon Question, passed.


L. 3a. - Hackney. - Upon Question, passed.

General Issue.

L. 2a. - General Issue. -

Sir H. Poole : - This Bill good, but short, - That it may be added to it, that the King's Counsel may shew Cause, upon their Demurrer.

Mr. Crew: - Not to clog this Bill with this. - To have all the Bills publick, already committed, or now to be committed. -

Committed to Mr. Crew, Sir H. Poole, Mr. Solicitor, Mr. Brooke, Sir Ro. Crane, Serjeant Davys, Serjeant Towse, Mr. Wentworth, Sir James Whitlocke, Mr. Nevyll, Mr. Howard, Mr. Southworth : And all, that will come, to have Voice : - The Temple Hall, this Afternoon, Two of the Clock. All the Lawyers to attend: And the other Bills to be delivered to them.

Pembroke Election.

Sir Geor. Moore reporteth from the Committee for Privileges, concerning a Burgess of Pembroke. - That they of Pembroke stood upon it, they only had Right, and the Out-boroughs none. That the Out-boroughs were refused to have [their] Voice. Hereupon, the Choice of Powell, by [those] of Pembroke, holden void by the Committee. -

Hertford, &c. Franchise.

That Hertford Borough, in Hertfordshyre, desireth Burgesses, having heretofore had: And Three Boroughs in Com Buckingham; viz. Wendover, Amersham, and Har. [a].

That these sent, in Temp. Ed. I. to Three several Parliaments ; and have new Charters, for Renewal of their former Right herein. That the Committee thinketh fit, new Writs should be granted for these Boroughs. -


That a Bill in the Star-chamber, against Mr. Ch. Price.

Pembroke Election.

For Mr. Powell; the Question is not concerning him, but the Mayor of Pembroke.

Sir Edw. Sands, and Sir Sam. Sands: - Not to hear him : For hath been heard already.

Mr. Solicitor, Sir W. Heale, accordingly.

Upon Question, Mr. Powell hath Time, till this Day Three Weeks, to be heard.

Hartford, &c. Franchise.

For Hartford, and the other Three Boroughs, the House will be advised; and when they bring their Charters to the Committee for Privileges, the King's Counsel to be called to it.


Mr. Alford: - To take into Consideration the Matter for Mr. Ch. Price. - The Sheriff of Radnor to be licensed to depart, till he be called for again, by the Committee, or the House.

Jurisdiction in Elections.

Mr Vaughan to be sent for, for complaining in the Star-chamber for a Matter of Elections, determinable in this House.


Mr. Hackwill delivereth in a Bill concerning Elections,&c.

Proceedings concerning Floyde.

Mr. Serjeant Hitcham and Sir Ch. Caesar bring from the Lords a Message ; that, sithence this House hath been pleased to refer the Judgment of Floyde to that House, they desire this House will be pleased to send up, to the Clerk of that House, the Trunk left here ; wherein Writings, which may give Light in that Business ; with Power to open it.

Mr. Treasurer: - Thinketh, this a Mistaking of the Messengers. - To clear this by a Message from ourselves.

Answer to be sent by Messengers of our own.

Sir Edw. Mountague : - To have some Six to go up into the Committee Chamber, and to set down an Answer in Writing.

Sir Edw. Sands: - To disclaim, for the first Part; and to send the Trunk.

The same Messengers instantly return from the Lords, with this Message to this House : That, to avoid all Questions about the Message, the Lords have willed them to let the House know, the first Part of the Message mistaken ; and only desire the Sending up of the Trunk to the Clerk of the Lords House, with Authority to open it.

Mr. Secretary : - That, upon a Message delivered from the King, by the Master of the Wards, the King had declared his Opinion, that fit to seal up this Trunk.

Sir Wm. Herberte, and Sir Ro. Phillippes: - This no Message from the King, but rather the Opinion of Master of the Wards. - To send up the Trunk.

Mr. Pymme, contra. - Not fit to send up this Trunk; for we had it here, when we gave Judgment, and yet never looked upon it. - That no Judgment given by the Lords (except in Matter of Privilege of their House) except the Commons demand it. - Not to send it.

Mr. Noy, contra. - Our Judgment given for Words, which were abroad, not in the Trunk. - That the Lords give Judgments, where we no Relators of it. - We will not be enforced to be Relators to them, but when we think fit.

Resolved, to send the Trunk, as is desired : And so answered to the Lords Messengers.

Mr. Hackwill; - To have a special Mention of the said Mistaking of this Message.

Sir Tho. Hobby: - To take Care of sending up the Key. To send up that by a Message.

The Key to be sent by our Serjeant, and to deliver it to Mr. Maxwell.

Wool Trade.

Mr. Finch reporteth the Bill of free Liberty for Buying and Selling of Wools (which re-committed) without any Addition or Alteration, except only, that those, which have 20 Tod of Wool, of their own, may buy none, but to use.

Sir Tho. Wentworth : - That the Inhabitants of the Vicarage of Halifax may have the Benefit, given them by an Act of Parliament 2 et 3o Ph. and M.

Mr. Mallory : - Not to except Yorkeshyre.

Sir Geor. Moore : - That the Clothiers of Surrey complain, if they have not Pre-emption, they will be undone.

- Many Laws made for the Encouragement of Clothiers, by Pre-emption, which never offered to be taken away, till now.

Mr. Secretary, as Sir Tho. Wentworth.

Sir Tho. Bellasys, contra.

Sir Wm. Spencer, and Sir Geor. Manners: - To give way to Pre-emption, for a little time, is for the Clothier to set the Price of Wool all the Year.

Serjeant Towse: - To have a Time limited for keeping engrossed Wool.

Sir Ro. Crane, - for Liberty of Pre-emption: - Which will be like, otherwise, to undo the Clothier.

Sir Edw. Gyles, contra: - So Sir H. Poole.

Sir Ro. Phillippes moveth, this Bill may be a Probationer. - So Sir Francis Barrington.

Sir Guy Palmes: - That the Exemption of Hallifax heretofore, in respect of the Poverty thereof; where now rich.

Sir Crew: - This no fit Time for this Proviso now. -

To reserve it till the Bill ingrossed, and then to offer the Proviso in Writing. - No Pre-emption for any Time: -

Will make, during that Time, make a Damp of Wool. The poor Clothiers desire, this may not be. - Not to make it a Probationer; because repealeth a penal Law, which ever in Dispensation, and giveth a Freedom to the Subject. Upon Question, this Bill to be no Probationer.

Upon Question, to be ingrossed.

Irish Cattle.

Mr. Whitby reporteth the Bill against Importation of Irish Cattle. - That Exportation of Coin stricken out of the Bill, and only Importation of Cattle hither to be provided against.

Serjeant Davys, - against the Bill. - Whatsoever good, or hurtful, for Ireland, so, by Consequence, for Ireland. By hindering Vent, we shall hinder the Trade there, and so barbarize that Kingdom again. - That Money must be carried into Ireland hence, or else they have none. They have no Mint, nor Coinage there. The King must have his Revenue there by Cows, not Money. No Money current there, but English. They have no other Vent of their Cattle, but hither. The King by this will lose 5,000 l. per Annum, in his Custom. The Money, carried over hence, returneth hither again in short Time. - That the Kingdom of Ireland cannot subsist, if this Bill pass. - To move the King, that a Mint may be in Ireland, from King John's Time till Ed. VI. and a Proclamation, to make Spanish Money current, - That we give Liberty to the Hollanders, &c. to bring in Horses, &c. whereby they export much Money.

Sir J. Perrott, contra. - Not to neglect Ireland, but to respect England before it. - That, by their small Rents there, they will undersell us here, and bring down our Rents. -


Mr. Attorney and Sir Ro. Rich bring a Message from the Lords; That they intend to adjourn their House till Thursday Nine of the Clock; and, in respect of the good Correspondence between both Houses (which they desire still to continue) hath thought fit to acquaint this House with their Purpose therein, before they do it.

Answer to be sent by Messengers of our own.

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - Not to break up till To-morrow.

Mr. Alford : - If we sit To-morrow, to enter into no publick Business; That the End of the Parliament have not a Sting in the Tail.

Sir Wm. Strowde, accordant. - To break up this Day.

Sir Edw. Sands -

So Sir Edw. Mountague.

Mr. Treasurer sent with a Message to the Lords, of kind Acceptance and Compliment: - And that we will break up this Day, and meet again at the same Time the Lords have mentioned.


Sir H. Poole reporteth the Bill for Restitution of Possession, for Copyholders, with the Amendments; which twice read. - Engrossetur.


Mr. Treasurer reporteth his Message to the Lords, of Thanks for their good Correspondency in general, and in the late particular Passage : And that they had resolved to break up here this Day, till Thursday.

Irish Cattle, &c.

Mr. Alford, in the Bill of Irish Cattle. - Is against our Transportation of our Sheep into Ireland.

Sir Rich. Gravenor, - for the Bill.

Master of the Wards : - To re-commit this Bill: For very weighty. - Against the next Access, will help them to Notes of the Commodities exported from Ireland, for Two or Three Years past.

Mr. Jordan: - To re-commit it.

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - Not to re-commit it; but to defer the Debate till Thursday next, Nine of the Clock; and then to be debated.

Sir Wm. Strowde: - To re-commit it, - So Sir Edw. Gyles.

Upon Question, re-committed to the former Committee : - This Day sevennight. Star-chamber. - All, that will come, to have Voices.


Sir Tho. Thynn, - a Jure patronatus against his Title. This to be stayed, by Warrant from Mr. Speaker. - John Hale.


The House adjourned by Mr. Speaker, till Thursday next, Nine of the Clock.


The Grand Committee, this Afternoon, not to meet: The other private Committees appointed, in the interim to hold.