House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 02 May 1614

Lunae, 2o Maii

Payne's Nat.

L. 1. AN Act for the Naturalizing of Robert Payne, Son of Wm. Payne, Citizen and Merchant of London.

Foreign Books.

L. 1. An Act concerning printing and binding of Books, printed, and brought from beyond the Seas,

Dillon's Creditors, &c.

L. 1. An Act for Relief of the Creditors of Sir Wm. Dillon Knight, and Robert Dillon Esquire, his Son, and Heir apparent, and for the Sale of their Lands, for Payment of their Debts,.

Aleyne's Estate.

L. 1. An Act for the Establishment of certain Lands conveyed to Wm. Aleyne by certain Commissioners for Sale of Bankrupts Lands.

Bills to be considered.

The Bills for Conditions, &c. and false Bail, to be considered upon by the former Committees, in the Court of Wards, and Exchequer Chamber, upon Wednesday next, in the Afternoon.

Bills of Grace.

Mr. Attorney bringeth in Four Bills of Grace.

Will not commend the Bills. - The King will be no Merchant. - He fearful to have the Voice of an Apprentice, to vent the Commodities. - When secondly read, will then explain : Will attend the Committee, to give Reason, and receive Reason; and to pray in Aid, if Cause, of the King's general Offer of Grace. - That no Meat savory, except the Stomach good. - Wisheth no Buzzes, or Undertaking, &c. should not make them, taste worse these Grace. -

That the last Parliament built upon Contract: Let not that cause us to despise these Graces. - That the Israelites Fault, in loathing Manna, and desiring Flesh; where yet Manna better for them,than the Quails.

Attainted Persons

L. 1. An Act for making of the Estates of attainted Persons liable for the Payment of their just and true Debts.

Penal Laws.

L.1. An Act giving Authority to certain Commissioners to review the State of penal Laws, to the end that such as are obsolete and snaring, may be repealed; and such as are fit to continue, and concern One Matter, may be reduced respectively into One clear Form of Law.

Secret Offices, &c.

L. 1. An Act against secret Offices, and Inquisitions, to be taken,on his Majesty's behalf, to the Prejudice of his Subjects.

General Issue.

L. 1. An Act for admitting of the King's Subjects to plead the general Issue, and nevertheless to continue their Possessions.

Homage.

L. 2. An Act for the better avoiding of Charge and Trouble of his Majesty's Subjects, upon Respite of Homage. -

Sir Jo. Sammes: - That the Intention of this Bill good, but trencheth not far enough. That this no ancient Right: Not before H. VIII. Time, when one Smyth, the Treasurer's Remembrancer. - Would have the Duty now remaining, to be continued to his Majesty; but -

Committed to Sir Jo. Savyle, Sir Warwicke Heale, Sir Christofer Hatton, Mr. Askwith, Sir Herbert Croftes, Sir Tho. Smyth, Sir Francis Lea, Sir Henry Poole, Sir Tho. Cheeke, Mr. Robert Hatton, Sir Olyver Cromwell, Mr. Middleton, Sir Rich. Bukeley, Master of the Wards, and all the former Committees in the Bill of Grace, for Relief of the King's Tenants in case of Forfeiture for Non-payment of Rent: And the same Day and Place, with the other.

Privilege - Undertaking for Parliament.

Sir Roger Owen: - That all generally condemned Undertakers, and Undertaking, at the Committee. That the King disclaimed Undertaking, and he believeth it; but that the King disclaimed -

That in One of the Articles for deposing R. II. that he had procured Knights and Burgesses. -

That H. IVth prohibited no Lawyers should be chosen of the House; but that recalled by the King.

That this Undertaking One of the Causes of the Fall of Cromwell. -

That H. VIII. (as appeareth in the Book of Martyrs) against the Council of Trent, because they came resolved to do, what they would to do. -

An Order the last Parliament, that no Man but the Speaker, might go to the King, to confer with him about Parliament Business; ut patet in the Clerk's Book. -

That Undertakers, if any, be worse than the Powder Traytors: They would have blown us up with Force. -

That then condemned also at the Committee, for any Man's Tongue here to be a Livery to any Lord. - .

That agreed, that the Movers for the Parliament, that so the King and his Subjects might be united in Love, that no Undertaking; but that he commendeth, and the Uses of the Parliament. -

That the King as essential a King in Wales, as at Whytehall; but not so visible a King. -

That the King ever great; but maximus in Parliament. That the general Fame (as by many Places of * vouched, appeareth) sufficient Cause of a Message to clear the House.

Sir H. Poole: - That this incertain Rumour a certain Consumption of Time, both in the House, and at the Committees. - Not always to dwell upon these Incertainties. - If no such (as he seeth no Accuser, none proved) then many worthy Members of the House wronged: If any; yet enough spoken here, and to satisfy to the King, and to make them out of Love with themselves, and to

prevent the like Presumption in Time to come; especially now the Time approacheth for the great Business of the Kingdom. - Moveth -

Sir Tho. Bromley: - Hath oft heard Two vulgar Sayings ; aliquid latet, quod non patet: Latet anguis in herba.

- Hopeth, no such venomous Serpents lieth lurking here in this fair Garden. - Hath heard of such Undertakers, before the Parliament, - That these Suspicions ought to be buried. - That but One detected, and that by himself; who not feared, for not thought he could do any Hurt.

- That he that professed he was saluted by the Name of an Undertaker, a most worthy Pillar of this House, in his Opinion, - That the rest have so cleared themselves, as he believeth. - Wisheth the House would be pleased, rather to heal the Wound speedily, than to pierce it deeper.

Sir Robert Phillippes: - That the Question of Two Parts : Whether to alter the Resolution of the House : Secondly, whether to add to the Order of the House, for Power to examine the Particulars of Undertaking. - Is against the latter, for avoiding Contention and Heat. Moveth for a Protestation to his Majesty, upon the general Voice and Rumour. Moveth for a Committee to that Purpose.

Mr. Ashley: - That much more Time not to be spent in this. - Moveth for Performance of the former Order.

- Not fit to be passed over. - That this Rumour spread in the Country. - If every Man clear from Undertaking, what Reason for any Man to withstand a Protestation ? Fame to be purged, as in the ecclesiastical Law. Vox populi, although not vox Dei, yet oft indicium veri.

Mr. Fuller: - Hath heard much of this. - Not a right Course taken to accuse the Undertaker. - That this our own Danger. - The Undertaking, he feared, was a Report that some One great Man had, by Letters, procured Sixty Voices. - That dangerous for carrying all with Yea, and No - This to be examined.

Mr. Hoskyns: - That this proceedeth from a rotten Foundation of Popery: Wisheth therefore, it may be examined. This the Argument that brought in the Trojan Horse, and overthrew the City. - Moveth a Recommitment.

Sir Dudley Digges : - That something fell from Mr. Hoskins, which maketh him to speak. - He the Man that spake it, that this grew from the Root of Popery. - That divulged, that divers particular Persons of the House Undertakers. - He feareth, that this some false Rumour, spread to hinder the great Businesses now in hand.

Sir Jo. Sammes moveth for a general Protestation, without taxing any Religion.

Mr. Attorney: - Silent till now: - 1. Not understanding it: 2. Taking it incredible, and insensible, that any private Persons should undertake for this House: Like the Bird in Paradise, that hath no Feet, and lighteth never.

- The Ground weak, but the Effect bad. - The Fly upon the Coach-wheel. AEsop. - Si invicem mordetis, in vicem mordemini. - Like Money cried down. - Go away with more. - Pack the Cards, shuffle the Cards. -

Wisheth himself, not only in the upper House, but in the upper World, because of this Discord. -

Come to the Parable of Jotham. - The Bramble the Ruler. - Whilst Contention ruleth, the King's Graces distasteful, and we unfit to salve the King's Wants. -

No Ways, but a punctual Examination; which not be embraced, for it will tire the House. - Parliaments excellent Judges, whiles in thesi; - come to Names, they kindle. - Silence he now liketh not. - Moveth for a Protestation, to clear the House from this Smoke, which all agree, hath never come to the Head. - .

For the Form: That divers Forms, by divers Gentlemen, of good Speech, good Pens and good Hearts. - Moveth a Committee to a few.

Sir H. Croftes : - Agreed at all Hands that something to be done; the Manner only questionable at the Committee; - That the Spreaders of this Rumour known particularly. - Excuseth his nominating himself in the House. - That this done of purpose to distract all the good Proceedings of the House.

That some young Gentlemen directed to go with their Voice, as some of these Undertakers. If any Man hath particularly spoken before the Parliament, that some such and such have undertaken to carry Things in this House, no Reason to suppress this. No Cure without searching to the Bottom. - That Sir D. Digges said, that if required, he would declare what he had heard cohcerning -

Moveth, he may be required to disclose this.

Mr. Kirton moveth, this may not be put to the Que-tion. - That One Accusation will beget another.

Sir Reynold Moore. -

Sir Ro. Mansfeild: - That greater Propositions to come from the King, than all the Bills of Grace, which have come in. - Wisheth the Persons may be named, from whom this came first.

Mr. Serjeant Mountague: - An Inquisition : A Protestation. - Moveth a Referment to a Committee, to enquire and protest.

Ordered, upon the Question, That the former Order shall be enlarged, to give Power to examine the Undertakers; and the Committee to be of the whole House. - Upon Wednesday in the Afternoon.

Homage

Ordered, That Counsel may be heard at the Committee, for the Bill concerning Respite of Homage.

French Company.

The French Company to bring in their Patent To-morrow, sedente Curia [a].