House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 11 May 1614

Mercurii, 11o Maii

Herne's Estate.

L. 1. AN Act for a Confirmation of a Sale of Lands made by Sir Edw. Herne, Knight, to.... Molesworth Esquire.

Precedence to Members in Courts.

Sir Edw. Hobby moveth, the Serjeant may go to all the Courts, to move them, from the House, to hear those Members of the House, before any other; that so they may attend their Service in this House, and yet not lose their Practice.

Transporting Ordnance.

L. 2. An Act against Transportation of any Iron Ordnance.

Sir Tho. Lake: - When the Count Palatyne here, they used him to get a Licence for Transportation of some. Now a new Suit for a Licence for 400 Pieces more. - Denied it; said, he could have it in Wales, without any Licence, as much as he would.

Sir Ro. Mansfeild sheweth the Dangers of Transportation. - The Low Countries, and all other Countries, furnished, and armed, against us, with our own Ordnance.

- A common Proverb, That this Improvidence, a Whip for the foolish English. That in - at his Charge, on the Narrow Seas, One Ship of his would bring in 40 of their best Ships. Now they claim to be Masters of the Sea. - Feareth, the Restraining of the Prerogative, for Power to transport, will stop the Bill. - To petition the King in this. - Would not have making of Ordnance be stopped.

- That all should be brought to One Wharf.

Mr. Alford: - That it would breed a Monopoly, except the King's Prerogative restrained. - No Provision against Strangers Importation. - Spanish Iron. - To

explain the Penalty of Premunire. - Will not consent to Forfeiture of the Fee-simple of Lands by this Act.

Mr. Prowse: - That, by Transportation of this Ordnance from Argyers, none of the West Country can almost pass. - Hath been said, the Londoners the Transporters of Ordnance, and Shot. Their Children taken, kept for Buggery, and made Turkes. - Moveth, a Petition to the Lords.

Mr. James: - A Bill passed last Parliament here; an Arrow shot in it above, by a Proviso, that it should not extend ; any Letters Patents granted by the King.

Sir Wm. Strowde: - That the Supplying Virginia, &c. may not be a Colour to carry it from thence into Spayne, and other Parts.

Sir Tho. Smyth moveth that the Customers may be sent for to the Committee, and inform.

Mr. Middleton: That, by our Ordnance, One of the Dutch Ships will affront One of the best of ours.- - Have sent us Word, they will see what Arms we bear in our Shields.

Sir Tho. Ferne, a great Means of Transportation.

Sir Wm. Cope: - That Iron may be made with Sea-coal, and Pit-coal.

Mr. Bateman: - To provide for Transportation of Iron Ordnance out of Ireland, where good now made.

Mr. Fuller: - Rather to make this Felony, than to abate the Penalty.

Mr. Hackwill: - The Spanish Navy, 88. - All other Countries so furnished with our Navy. In Holland, 1,500 great able Ships for the War; we, not above 500. - That a true Restraint, 20 Years, would make us again give Law to all the World at Sea. - Power to call Mr. Salter, and Mr. Worsenna, and other Customers, to inform. -

That a Gentleman that hath Power to take Bonds for bringing back the Ordnance they carry out, taketh 10 s. a Ton: Compoundeth for Bonds broken, for 40s. - Sir St. Proctor. -

To send likewise for the Trinity-house-men, to inform the House: - Ordered.

Committed to all the Privy-Council, all that have spoken in it, Sir Dudley Digges, Sir Maurice Berkley, Sir Edw. Sands, the Burgesses of the Port Towns, and Knights of London, Sir Ro. Phillippes, Mr. Askue, Sir Tho. Maunsell, Sir Rich. Bukeley, Sir Walter Covert, Sir Jo. Savylle, Sir George Manners, Mr. Jo. Middleton, Sir Jo. Trevor, Sir Humfrey May, Sir Tho. Grantham, Sir Henry Cary: - Monday in the Afternoon, in the Exchequer Chamber.

Southworth.

Ordered, Mr. Southworth may come in.

Stockbridge Election.

Mr. Serjeant sent to see if Mr. Chancellor of the Duchy without the Door, brought word, none.

Whereupon Mr. Secretary, - that faithfully, and with Respect to this House, and the Privileges thereof he did the Message of the House. -

That his Majesty will ever highly prize the Liberties of this House : With Thanks for their Course of Justice now, or upon any, of what Quality whatsoever, for this or the like Offence. - That his Majesty mindeth further to suspend him from the Council.

Ordered, upon the Question, That he be removed; and a new Writ for a new Choice.

The Charge of the Parties wronged, and the Misdemeanors of the Bailiffs, Pursivant, &c. to be referred to the Consideration of the Committees for Privileges.

Mr. Hackwill: - That not a new Choice; and yet those returned ought not to serve : For an undue Return, and leaving to return the true Parties chosen, by this Means may keep us from our right Members. - No Question, but Mr. St. John and Mr. Gifford duly chosen. - Thinketh the Bailiff ought to be sent for. -

29o Eliz. Mr. Fermor and Mr. Gresham returned. Exception to the Return. The old Indenture called for, and the other suppressed.

32* H. VI. Owndle returned Knight for Rutlandshyre, - Appeared, upon Examination, That Thorpe lawfully elected: Whereupon Owndle put out, and Thorpe, ordered to stand.

That a Man chosen, cannot wave. - If he chosen in another Shire than where resident; - otherwise cannot wave. - That a new Writ ought to go in Sir H. Walloppe's Place, and Mr. St. John to stand.

Mr. Fuller: - That no Indentures were here sealed. - After a Return made, no Remedy without a new Writ.

Sir A. Cope: - That the Writ went to the Bailiff, and Constable; where it ought to have been, to the Bailiff, and Burgesses.

Sir Sam. Sands: - That that Exception not material; for that the Writ goeth to the Sheriff, and not to the Sheriff and Freeholders, though they the Electors. That Mr. Gifford's Waver good, because no Burgess there. That Sir W. Cope's Return good, upon the Waver of Mr. Gifford.

Sir Ro. Maunsell agreeth with Mr. Hackwill. - That having a Freehold in the Shire he cannot refuse to serve. That no Choice made of Sir W. Cope. That the Bailiff confessed, he got the Names he had, by private Solicitation.

Sir Roger Owen: - Clear, the Election of these void: - To end that Question first.

Sir Ro. Hitcham: - That the deciding of this Question absolutely Matter in Law. That a Burgess elected, without Consent of Electors, cannot wave; with it, may refuse to serve. That a Knight of a Shire, elected, by Consent of the Electors, viz. the Freeholders, may refuse. -

That the first Man elected cannot be returned upon that Writ, because the contrary fully returned by the Writ; therefore Sir W. Cope to continue, till a new Writ.

Sir H. Croftes: - That informed at the Committee, that the Election upon the Friday, when no Mention of Sir W. Cope; so only Mr. St. John, and Mr. Gifford, chosen.

Sir Sy. Steward: - That no new Writ to go out, because no Fault in the Sheriff, by whom this is returned.

Sir Ro. Gardyner: - That this House to fine the Sheriff for not returning the Party rightly elected. That a new Writ must needs issue.

Ordered, upon the Question, That the Return of Sir W. Cope and Sir H. Walloppe, not good.

And Ordered, upon the Question, That a Warrant shall issue, for a new Choice in their rooms.

Privilege - Interference in Elections.

Sir Wm. Cope moveth, that all that is done in this Case, - may be registered; and the Order may, by the Committee of Privileges, be penned, considered of, and allowed, before it be entered. Ordered, upon the Question.

And Sir Wm. moveth a Mediation from the House to the King, to shew Mr. Chancellor Mercy, and restore him to his Council.

Mr. Alford secondeth it; for that otherwise, the Punishment being so great, we shall not proceed to examine the like Fault in others, for these pressing Letters.

Sir James Perrot, accordant: - And to shew Mercy, now Justice is satisfied.

Sir H. Croftes, - against Mr. Alford's Reason. - Thinketh no Punishment great enough. - For Commiseration, shall be ready;

Mr. Alford, to explain himself; that That which he spake of, is only for Letters.

Mr. Duncombe, - against all such Message for Mercy, lest should impeach the King's Judgment.

Mr. Ashley moveth for a Message of Mercy, but in due Time to be.

Sir Edw. Sands: - Sir . . . Piggott, last Parliament, told Mr. Speaker, at Bar, the Judgment greater to him than if they had struck off his Head: How much greater here, where a Counsellor thus sentenced. - Moveth for a Message, that we are doubly satisfied : 1. With the Censure in this House; and then with his Majesty's Message, for a further Punishment.

Mr. Fuller moveth, this Message may stay till To-morrow.

Sir Wm. Brereton: - To have this now ended, by Question.

Sir G. Moore, accordingly.

Ordered, upon the Question, That Mr. Secretary may

return the humble Thanks of the House, for his Message, sent by him this Day; and that the House resteth (for their Parts) satisfied with the Punishment themselves have inflicted, and desire no further Punishment, but leave that wholly to himself.

Report deferred.

Sir Edwyn Sands Report to be heard To-morrow Morning.

Apparel, &c.

The Bills for Apparel, and Gilding - at One of the Clock, in the Court of Ward.

Committee for Petitions.

Sir H. Croftes moveth, the Committee for Petitions may sit at Three of the Clock every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday : - And Ordered accordingly.

Small Debts.

L. 2. An Act for the speedy Recovery of small Debts. -

Mr. Whitson : - Will not suffer his Bill to be rejected, without speaking One Word for it, as a learned Serjeant of this House did.

Mr. Davys moveth, this may extend also to Wales. - Committed to Mr. Whitson, Mr. Middleton, Mr. Fuller, Sir Roger Owen, Sir William Walter, Sir Dudley Digges, Sir Tho. Vavasor, the Burgesses of London, Yorke, and Excester, and Ipswich, Sir Rich. Williamson, Sir Ro. Gardyner, Sir Myles Fleetewood, Mr. Terringham, Sir Jo. Bennett, Mr. Mynn, Sir Ro. Hitcham, Sir Tho. Low, Sir H. Poole, Sir Myles Sands, Sir Rich. Smyth, Mr. Sidney Mountague, Mr. Ashley, Mr. Hackwill, Mr. Browne, Sir Tho. Maunsell, Mr. Leech, Mr. Davys, Sir Carey Reynolds, Mr. Bateman, Mr. Jones: - Wednesday next, in the Exchequer Chamber.