Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 1, 1547-1629. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.
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Veneris, 16o Martii
Sir H. Poole : - This done by Consent of all Parties. - Committed to Sir H. Poole, Mr. Shervyle, Knights and Burgesses of Wiltes, Mr. Carvyle, Sir Peter Hamon, Sir Jo. Walter, Sir Gary Reynolds, Sir Tho. Hinton, Sir Edw. Sackvyle, Mr. Duckett, Mr. Sotwell: - Wednesday next. Exchequer Chamber.
Committed to Sir Edw. Sackvyle, Mr. Mynn, Mr. Writtington, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Francis Fane, Sir Edw. Coke, Sir Edw. Cecill, Lord Clifford, Sir Edw. Mountagew, Mr. Hopton, Sir James Perrott, Sir H. Withrington, Mr. Connisby, Mr. Tho. Fanshaw, Mr. Chancellor of the Duchy, Sir Geor. Deston, Sir Sam. Sands, Sir H. Poole, Sir Rich. Lovelace, Mr. Alford, Sir Francis Barrington, Mr. Middleton, Lord Lisle, Sir Francis Seymor, Sir Edw. Francis, Mr. Alford, Sir Geor. Manners, Mr. Weston, Sir Rich. Tichborne, Sir Edw. Gyles, Sir D. Digges, Sir Gilbert Houghton. - To-morrow in the Afternoon, Court of Wards.
Yorkeshyre and Mynehead Election.
Sir Geor. Moore reporteth from the Committee for Privileges: First for the Constables of Yorkeshyre. - That one Aleyne, and Middlethwayte, examined. That Aleyne denied the Warrant to be his Hand; but made by his Fellow Constable, by his Consent. That Sir Tho. Wentworth wished them to intreat the Freeholders to give their Voices, &c.
That Three testified, at the Election about l ,000 Persons cried, " A Savyle !" And these, pressing to the Town-hall, were refused ; the Door kept with Halbards ; and One of their Heads (offering to break in) broken.
For Myneheade; alleged by the Counsel, that Mynheade challenged, not by Charter, but by Prescription. That clearly used from 5o Eliz. That from Edw. IV. time, till 33 H. VIII. no Records of this kept; and from 33 H. VIII. ill kept: And referred from the Committee for the Continuance of -
Mr. Mallory: - Not to have the High Constables put unto too much Charge. - An Eye and Ear-witness of the Discontent of the Gentlemen at these Constables Doings. - A very ill Precedent to all the Counties of England. - That thousands in the Town, which were for a Savyle, and excluded.
That the High Constables deserve great Punishment, for the Preparation of the Business; for the High Constables have nothing to do in it. The Words, " will and require," not sufferable. - To have the Warrants read, and Proceedings upon it.
Sir H. Withrington: - against Sir Edw. Cokes taxing Mr. Alford's Speech. - Could himself have no Place at the Committee, being One of them. - Desireth the Opinion of the House, whether they, of a Committee, are not to have place before others of it. - For the High Constables; they have committed a great Offence, in practising to chuse whom they would. - Not too many Precedents of Mercy; some of Justice, - To have them made an Example. - Cleareth Mr. Mallory.
Master of the Rolls : - Never observed better Carriage in a Parliament, nor with more Success. - That these Constables, of small Ability: - Great Charge in coming up. - Justified, at the Committee, to have been the Use there in those Terms : - Though commendeth it not. - That Sir Tho. Savyle may be questioned, for wronging Sir H. Savyle, his Son-in-law. Not to catch Flies. - Doubteth, our Authority will not extend further.
Sir Sam. Sands : - Commendeth not the Course of this Parliament. - If the Members of this House may not speak his Mind freely - No Man here to think himself so great, as to oppress any Member of this House with his Greatness. -
Privilege - Examining Members on Oath by Lords.
A Message from the Lords, by Mr. Attorney and Sir Wm. Byrd ; that the Lords have considered of the Grievances from hence : That in that, for Inns and Ostries, they have found many exorbitant Grievances : - Desire, the Proof should be without Exception. - That the Proof is to be by sundry Members of this House; therefore, out of their Respect to this House, move, these Gentlemen may make a Declaration upon Oath ; and that; if there had been any other Proof, they would not have required this. - And delivered their Names in writing.
A Judge, in a Court, not to be sworn as a Witness : So in the Star-chamber. - To send Word by these Messengers, that we will consider, and send an Answer by our own Messengers, with all convenient Expedition.
Mr. Noye: - Great Difference between Causes originally before the Lords; contra, where originally from hence. That Causes, coming from hence, have been both examined, and judged, here. - That we give them, not as thus conceived by any particular Man, but as judged by the whole House. - The like not to be for them in the like Case. - Mr. Drake not to swear, Sir G. M. wrote the Letter, which he confessed : And the Licensing the Alehouse-keepers for Inn-keepers before put down ; and will appear by the Records, or Books, they have.
That this Message may be thus answered: That we have judged these Things as Judges of State, and generally known to be true : That Mr. Drake cannot swear the Letter, yet Sir G. M. hath confessed it here: The other Things they may prove, if they be not satisfied, by the Records.
Mr. Glanvyle: - That this House no Power to take an Oath; the Reason, because presumed to know all griev-vous to the Commonwealth: Therefore the Judgment of this House, of Matter of Fact, not after to be questioned. - That all grounded upon Matters of Record, or Writing, except Two or Three.
Delivering Prisoners to Lords.
Another Message from the Lords, by the same Messengers; bringing the Names of some Prisoners, by Command from this House: - Desire to have them delivered to their own Officer, that they may have the Examination of them at their Pleasure: - And delivered their Names : George Gelder, Norton, and others .- - And desire to know, whether this House will send an Answer to the Lords this Day; who else will rise.
For the Answer; should be rejoicing at the Concurrency of both Houses; would yield the last Message; for the other, cannot yield; for Judges here, and have Notice of all Things in the Commonwealth : And that the King hath never doubted of it.
Privilege-Examining Members on Oath by Lords.
Upon Question, Resolved, That all such of the Prisoners, as are in the Serjeant's Custody, whom the Lords shall require, for Examination, shall be delivered to the Lords, to be examined; and then to be remanded to the Custody of the Serjeant.
Mr. Solicitor : - The Question more for the Manner than Matter, - Not to have this Wrong to this House. - We have adjudged these a Grievance already. - That the Danger, proposed by the Chancellor of the Duchy, may be avoided. There that cannot be adjudged, because we cannot hear him ; for a Lord of that House: And, before adjudged here, a Member of this House may be sworn there.
Sir Edw. Sands: - Where said, this res judicata; denieth it. We have adjudged it a Grievance in Origine and Executione: This not to be questioned: But we have required the Lords to proceed further, for Punishment; and we know not, to how high Punishment: And if they shall think fit so, then not fit fide implicita to proceed to such Punishment; but fit for them to rely upon Matter of Record, and Deposition; which Deposition they have no Reason to credit so far, as to give Judgment of Life, or like Punishment, without Oath; which they may take, we cannot. -
Two of the joyfullest Days, this Parliament, that ever seen: 1. Our presenting of Two Subsidies to the King; and the King's gracious Demonstration of his Acceptance: And the great Conjunction between both Houses. - Great Care not to take a Bone, where none cast. - To send a Message to the Lords, expressing our Care of our Privileges, &c.
Sir Francis Goodwyn: - Will be ready to swear what hath said. - That this ordinary at the Assises, - All Proofs must be by Witnesses, or Record. - That, that he hath said, is not to be proved by Record, nor otherwise, than by his Testimony. - Desireth to be sworn.
Mr. Glanvyle secondeth Mr. Noy his Motion: - The rather, because the Lords, no doubt, have, upon Consideration, thought this Motion fit. - That the Lords have sent down, upon Occasion, their Members into this House, to give Satisfaction here.
Sir Edw. Coke: - That Sir Edw. Sands hath understandingly opened this Case, and seconded by another; yet of the same Opinion as before. - That every Man may renounce his Privilege, if he will: - Therefore, because the Members of this House have done it, to let as many as will to do it.
Hall and Fuller's Case.
Privilege - Examining Members on Oath by Lords.
2ly, A Protestation hereupon, upon the Message: - And, for that the Cause of extraordinary Nature, and that they cannot judge of it there, as we here; because we had Sir Gyles Monperson present, they have not,
Hall and Fuller's Case.
Mr. Speaker to the Counsel: - That the Hearing of this Cause, to discern of the Justice of the Court of Wards, and Chancery; therefore to open the Proceedings truly; thereby to avoid further Trouble to the House, and Discredit to themselves. The Right now not to be determined.
[4o] Febr. 17o Jac. a Motion, why Sir Jo. Hall should not pay the Rent reserved upon Fuller's Lease, he receiving all the Profits; and why he should not pay the Stipend to Mr. Fuller; and why not deliver the Possession to Mr. Fuller.
That the Court of Wards, in their Proceedings, have erred in all, but their Order of Dismission ; yea, more than Error: For, in other Cases, voidable only; here void, because exceedeth the Jurisdiction of that Court; That never having Power to meddle in it. -
Then a Lease made by Sewell to Fuller, for Four Years; and yet shew not, that he was in Possession: And, without Possession, the Lease void; except it be shewed, that the Lease sealed upon the Ground. - That the Court, though they have Power over the Ward, have no Power to meddle with the Executrix. -
That immediately, viz. 1o Julii, the Process for Sir Jo. Hall, in the Court of Wards. That he, after the Dismission, never looked to the Court of Wards, nor had any Counsel there for him; though some, that had been of his Counsel, might be there. -
That, upon an Affidavit of Sewell's Contempt, upon serving Process, &c. the Possession settled as he had it; and with Prevision, he, with Sureties, to be bound to the Court, to answer the meane Profits. -
That the Master of the Wards writ a Letter hereupon to the Lord Chancellor; upon reading whereof the Lord Chancellor made Claim, that it belonged only to the Chancery; and granted a Writ of Assistance to the Plaintiff.
Mr. Moore: - That this Injunction granted against my Lord's own Orders; for there provided, no Injunction to be granted, upon any Title, but where the Title continueth, and hath had such a Possession Three Years before. That my Lord Chancellor several times deferred the hearing the Letter, wittingly. That my Lord Chancellor did unjustly in Fuller's Commitment; which was only for suing in the Court of Wards. - Motion *. -
Mr. Finch : - If the Court of Wards no Jurisdiction, nothing, done by it, to be respected. 2ly, Admitting the Point of Jurisdiction, yet a strange Order, to have a Possession taken from the Plaintiff. - Next, the Dismission. -
Mr. Noye: - That neither Court did well: The Question, which worst. The Court of Wards should have dismissed it. Both Courts have done ill, by granting Writs of Assistance. - To keep a Man in Possession by a Writ of Assistance, no Writ of Error lying.
In the Chancery, by the Order in November, a Writ of Assistance against the former Writ of Assistance. The Sheriff must levy an Army on either Side; and the Sheriff lead One, the Under-sheriff lead the other.
Mr. Solicitor: - The Time spent, and mis-spent. - The Miscarriage of Courts of Justice, where no Corruption, not fit for a Parliament. - Erratum in omnibus, on both Parts. - The Court of Wards clearly no Jurisdiction. - Orders against Sir Jo. Hall, where he no Party to the Suit. -
Sir Edw. Coke: - That no Court of Equity hath Power to meddle with Lands, or Goods; but only imprison. - If may, by a Writ of Assistance, keep one in Possession, is more than a Writ of Right, wherein Error lieth. Here no Help; but locked up, without any Appeal. -
Ordered, That this House conceiveth it fit, that both Sir John, and Tho. Fuller, Clerk, should be absolutely freed from their Imprisonment; and the Causes be dismissed out of both the said Courts; and either of the said Parties to take his Remedy at the Common Law.