Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 1, 1547-1629. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.
This free content was digitised by double rekeying. All rights reserved.
Mercurii, 21o Martii
Mr. Towerson . - All Search taken away by this Bill from the Merchant. 2ly, Taketh away Part of the Weight, viz. of Two Pound ; where the Goodness of the Cloth a principal Benefit to the Kingdom in Vent of Wools, &c.
Committed to Sir Ro. Crane, Mr. Towerson, Lord Clifford, Mr. Clench, Knights and Burgesses of all Clothing Counties, Burgesses of Yorke, Mr. Salisbury: All, that will come, to have Voice : - To-morrow Afternoon, Exchequer Chamber.
Grievances - Illegal Patents.
Sir Edw. Coke, from the Committee for Grievances. - The Patent for dispensing with Pedlars, Rogues, ruled. by the Committee, to be a Patent of Grievance. The Referees, Lord Chancellor now, and Sir H. Yelverton. The Patent for Apprentices. - Goldsmyth the principal. The last, for Wills ingrossing, the worst of all. - Every Man dying, either maketh his Will, or dieth intestate. - The Subject hath Liberty, by the Law, to ingross his own Will: If intestate, the Subject hath Liberty to write his own Inventory, or get any other to do it. - Now every of these must come to Sir Ro. Floyde: -
He the sole Ingrossing of all Wills and Inventories ; so as the Subject cannot write his own Will, or Inventory. The Consequence hereof will extend to confining to some certain Scrivener, Butcher, Brewer. - 3 d. for every Line; which double as much as before. -
Trin. 41o Eliz. Rot. 92, a Charter to the Merchant-taylors of London, to make Ordinances; Who made an Order none of that Company should put their Cloth to any but a Member of their own Company. - Adjudged, if a Patent to this Purpose, it were void ; for a Patent cannot hinder the Liberty of the Subject in this Kind.
Sir James Perrott: - That this Patent not unlawful, in Respect of the Erection of a new Office. - That leaveth to the Lawyers. - For the Increasing the Charge of the Subjects: That the Proctors said it would be 10,000 l. out of their Way; and offered him the Fees of his Patent gratis, and they would execute it. -
Lord Chancellor Bacon.
Sir Ro. Phillippes: - That Gardyner's Man affirmeth that, Three Days before the Hearing of the Cause, the Lady Wharton put 100 l. in a Purse, went to Yorke-house, and, as she said after, gave it my Lord. That, in ... after, she put 200 l. more into a Purse, and took the Money from Gardener at Yorke-house, went in to my Lord, and, as she said, delivered it to my Lord; and had after presently the Decree.
Another Case ; Hull, and Holman. - Holman, refusing to answer, committed ; there lay 20 Weeks: After required to answer, and to give Bond of 20,000 l. to stand to my Lord Chancellor's Order in it. That one Manby, about the Exchange, dealt in this Business with Mr. Mewtys. That Holman, finding his Order vary, resolved to complain to this House. That, upon Friday last my Lord sent for Hull and Holman; offered to make an indifferent End between them: And that Holman told
The other Case, between Smythwicke, and.... - Smythwicke was told, he must use some good Way : Came to Mr. Yong; promised my Lord 200 l. so as the Certificate might be decreed: Dealt after with Burrowes: He undertook to move my Lord. He heard the Cause : Part of the Award decreed. The 200 l. paid. - That, unless my Lord might have 100 l. more, no further Proceeding. - That Smythwycke brought Burrowes 70 l. Part of the 100 l. - The Cause yet deferred; - Brought the other 30 l. to Hunt, who, Burrowes said, had most Part of the Money. The former Part of the Decree now again questioned, Smythwicke demanded his Money. - Hunt, - That he had disbursed it for my Lord, and given my Lord Accounts for it. Hunt advised Smythwycke to petition my Lord, to have Leave to sue Hunt for this Money. - That Hunt promising the Repayment of the Money. -
That a Servant to my Lord; an Eye and Ear-witness, for Four Years. That, in this Time, my Lord hath sown much good Seed of Justice; and that only the envious Man hath sown the Tares. - Moveth, whether this general Accusation fit to be sent up to the Lords, without particular Application.
Sir Ro. Floyde: - That he no Projector, nor ever was any : Will give his Voice against any ill Thing., Wisheth all his Life may be examined: Wisheth all the Kingdom heard him. Was neither Projector, nor Petitioner, in this Business ; Hath the Reference to the Lords, and learned Counsel; which never heard at the Committee, or here. - That the King hath granted this Patent, for Reformation of the Exactions of Proctors: Upon full Hearing of great Counsel, this granted. - That great learned Lawyers, and divers of the Judges, of Opinion for this Patent. That the Proctors maintained, by their Counsel, that the Subjects could not ingross their own Wills ; if they did, yet they were to pay them. That none complained, but the Proctors: No Subject complaineth. That this beneficial for avoiding Exactions. That he is to ingross more for 5 s. than is, in many other Offices, for 5 l. - Moveth, the Certificates may be heard read, and he be heard by his Counsel in this House, - Will make the Extortion of the Proctors appear.
Sir Edw. Sackvyle: - That the Patent unlawful; for the Liberty of the Subject taken away; and the Consequence dangerous; for then One may have all the Making of Bonds. To have the Question now upon the Lawfulness of the Patent in origine, not in executione.
No Question, but the Law against this Patent. - Resolved, in Rolfe's Case; Davent's Case. - Against Magna Charta. - That, at the Committee, the Patentee's Counsel heard, and gave over the Defence of many Points -
Part of the King's Prerogative, to do no Wrong ; but, if he be deceived in his Grant, the Grant is void. - The Ingrossing of all Indentures, Bonds, &c. - One would have had the Making of all Indentures for Apprentices: Resolved by the Judges, not to be grantable.
Mr. Noye mentioneth, that Sir James Perrott said he would answer to no Tale. - Desireth to be freed from those Imputations. - That this Patent unlawful. The Extortion of the Proctors no Cause for this Provision : They are to be punished. - But to make a Law upon the Certificate of Two or Three Men is to need no Parliaments. -
5 R. II. many Ordinances made; whereof many good. These Ordinances, at the next Parliament, declared to be made against the Liberty of the Subject; which is, to make Laws by common Consent. All Laws, with us, by Prescription, or Act of Parliament. -
This extendeth not to the King's Seal; as Subpoenas, &c. - Difference between Distribution there, where the Seal here: - Which every Company doth ; viz. to appoint who shall write to their Seal: - And every Man may refuse to seal a Writing, except such a Man write it. - The Bishop's Seal none of the King's. - The King, by this Reason, may appoint who shall write to all Companies, &c.
Sir James Perrott explaineth himself, that he intended not any Man, by the Word, " Tale;" if he used any such Word. - That the Certificate may be sent for, whereunto Sir Ro. Nanton his Hand is subscribed.
That it appeareth in the last Certificate, Secretary Nanton differed from the Lord Chancellor, and Lord Treasurer; and it appeareth there, those Lords desired the Opinions of other Judges ; which not done, through the Haste of the Patentees. - To have an Act conceived, whereby the Law may be explained, that all Men may, at their Pleasure, write their own Wills.
Mr. Noye, concordat; the rather, because he said he did it for a publiek Good. - Misconusant of the Law: - Advised, as he was, by Counsel. - An Error in the Law. - This a dangerous Example. - No Complaint of the Mis-execution.
Sir Edw. Coke . - Ever inclinable to Mercy. - Concurreth with Sir D. Digges. - That Mr. Bridges discountenanced this Patent, yet sequestered. - Ignorantia juras non excusat: Legis excusat, si nescit faemina, miles, clericus, et cultor; judex sibi pascit, et ultor. - Sir Ro. Floyde, though a Knight, yet no Soldier. - Spake long. - Inter utrumque vola: in medio tutissima virtus. - To suspend him.
Mr. Mallett: - If this a Project of Ten Years old, and none would meddle with it sithence, he the more worthy to be put out. - Remembereth his Boldness in defending this Cause, after the Grand Committee had judged it a Grievance.
Sir Wm. Herberte:- That he a Projector; and hath followed it with more Violence, than any other. - Heard the King, at Hampton Court, more inveigh against this Patent, than ever did against any other. - Glad, for the Honour of his Country, his Life not ripped up.
Mr. Recorder: - Great Use of this Debate. - Must either be removed, or not suspended : Cannot be suspended ; for nothing else to be done. - He defends, and executeth it. - If we will hear him no more, then not to suspend him; to remove him.
Exactions of Proctors.
Sir Edw. Coke, Mr. Noy, Mr. Mallett, Sir Geor. Moore, Sir Jo. Walter, Mr. Crew, Mr. Digges, Mr. Recorder, Mr. Taylor, Sir Jo. Trevor, Mr. Shervyle, Mr. Solicitor, Mr. Brooke, Sir Edwyn Sands, to meet, for framing a Bill against the Exactions of Proctors, the first Day of the next Meeting, in the Temple Hall,
Constables of Yorkshyre.
Sir Ro. Floyde called to the Bar (not kneeling) Mr. Speaker pronounceth his Sentence; That he is to be no longer any Member of this House, but to be removed; and that his Patent a Grievance in the Original.
SIR Edw. Coke . - That the Patent of old Debts, 16 Jac. - Henry Lucas, and Edmonde Duncombe : - A Commission of old Debts: - And Symon Chambers Two Patents: One, 15 Jac. to Edw. Ramsey, for Dispensation with Tillage. - Sir Henry Britayne.
Sir Edw. Coke : - That Mr. Solicitor required a Saving for no more Suits, but for this ; which grounded upon an Act of Parliament. - Marquis of Exceter attainted, - That Typper made a Case of it: - No Office to be found : - He pressed Typper, and he found it out,
Stewart's, &c. Nat.
That the Patent for Light-houses at Winterdonnesse, l. Superfluous, unnessary, and prejudicial: For that, above Twelve Months before, a Light-house, better than this, maintained ; begun Twelve Months before, and finished Six Months before; erected at the Charge of 600 l. at the Request of the Mariners; and a Light maintained in it. Six Months before. -
That the former Light-house made before that of the Patentees; but never (notwithstanding their Power, by 8 Eliz. to do it) undertook any thing in it, till they heard the King intended to make this Grant. -
- That they keep sometimes no Light at all, and ordinarily such a Light as giveth no Light. - This prejudicial, more than if no such Light-house there; because, when expected, and none, more Danger, than if never any.
Mr. Gerrard: - If this Patent impose upon the Subject, will disclaim in it. - None erected there, from 8 Eliz. till 15 Eliz. - The Merchants, in respect of the daily Losses, were Suitors, for a Light-house to be erected at Dongeon-nesse. - That the Lords of the Council, upon the Petition of the Merchants, calling the Trinity-house, and they refusing to erect it, appointed a Light-house to be erected by Sir Francis Howard; the Recompence, such as the Merchants voluntarily offered.
Mr. Brooke, upon both these Patents: - That the Trinity-house neglecting, for 50 Years, the Erecting of these Houses, therefore the King, parens patriae, might provide for the Erection. - Moveth, if these Lights necessary, and well granted, and the Rate too high, then this House to moderate that. - Not to transfer the Lights from those Patentees to the Trinity-house.
Mr. Neale. - For the Patent of Dungeon-nesse. - That those of the West Ports find this a great Grievance; not useful to divers; but bring Pilots with them, and trust not to these Lights. - That, by this Means, the Strangers leave the Ports, only for Avoiding of these Charges. That they of the Western Ports, come not near this Place of Dongeon-nesse. Mr. Lovell, contra.
Mr. Hackwill: - If these Patents should scape being questioned here, they would multiply ; For Certificates (such as those whereupon that for Winterdon-nesse granted) may easily be gotten.- - The Cobbe of Lyme hath an Act of Parliament: So the Pier of Dover. - The Consent of Merchants ought not to bind the Commons of England. - Not to put out these Lights. To suspend our Opinions yet; and to have a Law drawn to tie the Trinity-house to take but 6 d. as they offer.
Sir Edw. Sackvyle: - If Use of Lights, the King's Prerogative. - This to be done, upon the Merchants voluntary Offer, - That the Trinity-house not fit to be trusted. That the Trinity-house informed the King, the Carriages to the Spaniards not prejudicial. These dangerous Referees.
1. Because this requireth Skill (as 8 Eliz. saith) therefore not to be granted to any unskilful. - Quod non valet in principali, non valet in consequenti: Therefore, making a Deputy, in this Case, that hath Skill, helped not. - Granting this, where it concerneth Life, not Lawful to ignorant Men. - The Loadstone not known in former Times. -
A Grant for Years (this being a Thing of Trust) void. An Executor cannot take it. The Lessee here might be outlawed, then his Interest gone. Queen Eliz. would not grant it, but to Men of Skill; and by Act of Parliament, not by Patent. -
That at Winterdon void ; because, at the Time of the Patent, another House there built. - The Petition not considerable. - No Imposition fitting, especially for the Benefit of a Subject. - Not to determine this now. - The Gentleman to have his Money again. - Not to trust the Trinity-house, without Overseers. - These Lights to be maintained by Act of Parliament, and Overseers, in those Counties, of such principal Men. - A Penalty upon the Trinity-men, upon their Default, to be to the Use of the poor Mariners of that Coast.
Sir Ro. Phillippes reporteth from the Lords: That they acknowledge the great Care of the House in these important Businesses. - Thanks for the Correspondence of this House with them : - Assure the like from them for ever to this House, in these, and all other Things : - Will advise, and return Answer herein, as soon as possible. Bills and Sir James Perrott moveth, a Committee may take a Grievances. View of the Bills and Grievances, and put them in Order before our Recess.