Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 1, 1547-1629. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.
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Mercurii, 2 Maii
The Patents of Sir Tho. Compton, prohibiting Importation of Logwood, and dispensing with Importation thereof, to be brought in to the Committee for Grievances, upon Friday next, by... Jarvys, of the Custom-house, who executeth the same.
Committed to Sir Geor. Moore, Sir Ed. Mountague, Burgesses of London, Sir J. Horsey, Mr. Barlett, Sir Edw. Francis, Sir Edw. Peyton, Sir H. Poole, Sir Tho. Hinton, Sir G. Gerrard: All, that will come, to have Voice : - Monday next, Exchequer Court.
Sir H. Poole, Sir M. Sands, Sir J. Horsey, Sir P. Fretchwell, Mr. Conyers, Sir Nath. Rich, Mr. Drake, Mr. Noye, Mr. Fetherston, Sir Geor. Chaworth, Sir Wm. Strowde, Sir Wm. Ermyn, Mr. Whitmore, Mr. Arondell, Sir Tho. Low, Mr. Carvyll, Mr. Strowde, Mr. Wentworth, Mr. Tho. Trevor, Mr. Hackwyll, Mr. Mallett, Sir Jo. Trevor junior, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Sam. Sands, Mr. Nevell: - Saturday, Star-chamber. - And the Committees, for, this, specially required to attend.
Sheriffs of London.
L. 2a. An Act for the further Reformation of Jeofayles: - Committed to Mr. Servant Towse, all the Lawyers of the House, Sir Tho. Wentworth, Mr. Fanshaw, Mr. Finch, Sir Edw. Coke, Mr. Clarke, Mr. Hopton, Mr. Mallett, Mr. Denny, Serjeant Davys, Mr. Strowde, Mr. Taylor, Mr. Irby, Mr. Sotwell: - Monday next, in the Middle Temple Hall.
1. The Patent holden by the Committee void, in Law, and by Consequent. Void in Law : For not within the Statute 5o Eliz. so as any one may lawfully execute it; and against the Liberty of the Subject, to be restrained without Act of Parliament. 2ly. Because under the Government of the Goldsmiths. - That they covenanted with the King, to bring in as much as they were to spend; but brought in none. That the King told Sir H. Y. he doubted, this would consume the Gold of this Kingdom; and Sir H. Y. promised to provide
for that. - The End of all Monopolies private Gain, though the publick pretended. The Cutler before bought for 20s. Gold, now payeth 30s. - The Dr. 2001. per Annum: Sir H. Britayne 50 l. - The Painter and Bookbinder enhansed also. - Importation of any prohibited. - Made worse, thinner, and of less Size. - That, by Force of this, they arrested Men. - Spencer drawn by Warrant into London, and there arrested upon feigned Actions.
Members concerned in Patents.
Sir Ro. Phillippes professeth great Respects to Sir Edw. Villyers, and his Friends. - That said by Sir H. Y. said, Sir Edw. Villyers had enforced him to commit some. - That Sir Edw. had threatened some with perpetual Imprisonment. - Wisheth his Stay out of the House (as voluntary of himself) for a Day or Two, till we understand from the Lords, what they find against him.
Jurisdiction of Parliament - Punishing Floyde.
Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer: - That his Majesty, out of his Care of the Proceedings of this House, took Notice of our Proceedings Yesterday. - By him Thanks for their great Zeal to him, and his: - And that he, as a King, hath taken upon him to stay our Proceedings Yesterday; and, as a Father, to take Care of our Proceedings : And, by way. -
That the King expecteth the like Course here, from this House, as from the Lords, in Sir H. Y. Case; who would not proceed with him, till knew his Pleasure. - Floyde, labouring to supplant Sir Francis Evers, depraved him, not with Corruption, but with indefinite Stains of Dulness, Ignorance, &c. That, upon this, Floyde committed. Upon Sir Francis Evers' Death, Floyde appealed to the King; who, notwithstanding, was restrained by -
Master of the Wards: - Brought Yesterday from the King Assurance of our Privileges: Commanded now again to use the same Words. - Question, whether this House hath Power to give Judgment Yesterday or not. - He Yesterday desired a View of Precedents, to walk safely : Received this Morning, a Record from the King's Hands; which if true, we all much mistaken. - That told sithence the Parliament, we a Court of Record ; and had Power to judge of ourselves, in some Cases; and, in other Cases, jointly with the Lords. - The King desireth us to look, what Precedents to warrant this; and that this Paper may be read, containing a Record l H. IV.
Mr. Alford: - That this, and divers other Precedents, found by them. - Moveth, first to consider, how our Reputation may be saved for the present, in respect of the Expectation of the Execution thereof. - That the King may pardon this, if he please.
Mr. Noye: - Knoweth not what Resolution Yesterday, - That, without Doubt, wheresoever any Judgment given, the King may remit it - In Lord Latimer's Case so done, The King may take away, not reatum, but culpam, and paenam. - That the King -
No doubt, but, in some Cases, this House may give Judgment: - In Matters of Returns, and concerning Members of our House, or falling out in our View, in Parliament-time; but, for foreign Business, knoweth not how we can judge it. Knoweth not, but the Matter of Judicature remaineth above with the Lords. - We excusable, if zealous in this so exorbitant an Offence. - Knoweth not, that we have used to give Judgment in any Case, but those before-mentioned. - That, for this Record, no doubt, but we may, of Things concerning our own Members. - That the Judgment remaineth in our own Breast, till the Record made up; which not yet done : And we may well deliver this as our Opinion, though not as a Judgment. - No Committee, to examine this Business; because judged: For then a few shall judge all.
Sir H. Poole: - Glad, it could be made good, which hath been delivered here, that the Commons may judge of themselves. If we once all one with the Lords, being now parted, our Power of Judicature remaineth. - A Committee, to consider of Precedents; that we may know our Power therein.
Mr. Hackwyll : - Against a Committee, - For that to Parliament - controul our own Judgment. - Doubteth, no Precedent will be found ; and then worse. - to have an Order conceived, that we intend not (for some special Reasons) to proceed further in the Execution of our Judgment.
Sir Edw. Sands: - That we, Yesterday, carried on with a great deal of Zeal to the King, and his Children. If this an Error, error amoris.- - A Committee appointed to draw up all things, tending to this Judgment, and to survey his Writings. - To send a Supersedeas, and go to the Lords.
Sir Edw . Coke: - Was not here Yesterday. - The King sendeth us Quaere's; and a Record, wherewith well acquainted. - Hath been misliked, out of the House, for curbing the Jurisdiction of this House, in going to the Lords, where we might have judged it here. Happy, that thought ill of by them, that understand not. - No Question, but this a House of Record; and that it hath Power of Judicature, in some Cases. - Have Power to judge of Returns, and Members of our House, We make a Warrant to the Great Seal: Therefore a Power of Record : - May put out a Member of this House, upon Record. One, no Member, offending out of the Parliament, when he came hither, and justified it, was censured for it. King's Bench, nor any other Court, can judge in all Cases. -
Coram Magnatibus et Communitate. - When the Lords will have our Advice, then may join with them; as appeareth by this Record. The Lords may judge alone, without the King; and standeth with this Record : For it is, as hath been used, by the very Words. When the King there, then they join, when he there; else alone. -
Not to write to the Sheriffs a Supersedeas: For no Warrant gone to them. - To let them know, by the Serjeant, they shall not need to attend till further Warning. - That this, as a Declaration of our Opinion, may go up to the Lords and acquaint them with it.
Sir Ro. Phillippes: - That the King hath sent us Quaere's. - For Precedent, though we have not (which knoweth not) yet every Precedent had a Beginning. - If nothing be done in Execution of this Judgment, will be a wonderful Touch to the Honour and Judgment of this House. - Not to go to the Lords. - Moveth a Message to the King, to petition him, that, by his Power, this Judgment may be confirmed, and executed ; and yet a Course to be taken, that this Precedent (if it fall not out warranted by Precedents) may not prejudice the Privileges of the Lords hereafter.
Mr. Crew: - Not to go now to the Lords, though before best. Not to proceed by Bill: For that weakeneth also,our Power. - Particular Acts of Parliament not to be taken Notice of; yet otherwise, where a Law for the King, Queen, or Prince. -
No Question, but a Court of Record, and Power to give [an Oath ;] though forbear, in Respect of Want of Use. No [Question,] but we punish; and may, where this House wronged. [Sithence] therefore the whole Body of the House touched, in the [Wrong done] this Lady, the King's Daughter. -
Moveth therefore, to petition the King for the Execution [of our Judgment:] 1. With Thanks to the King, for his gracious Message: [2ly,] Excuse of our sudden Proceedings, without acquainting [him,] by reason of our Zeal: 3ly, to petition his [Majesty for] Execution of our Judgment.
Mr. Solicitor - We all agree in his Punishment, * * * already made him close Prisoner. - To inform the King of our Proceedings and Reasons; [and that] he will examine himself; which he may do upon * * finding our Judgment warranted by Truth, to [confirm it.]
* * * why then not so? - Peers tried upon Honour *** Where the Commons House satisfied, though without [Oath;] * * and as good, as in another Court without Oath - [That] in this Precedent observable, that then the Commons pr* * * join; and they intreated to be spared. Their own [Judgment] is not to prejudge them of their former Liberty. -
Mr. Finch: - That our Judgment in Part executed. - Bolton's Ward * * Lodging this last Night. - To petition the King to [confirm] our Judgment, by the Execution, of his Grace. - To have * * Memorandum entered, that we have no Meaning, by [this] Precedent, to gain any Power to us of what we had no Power before.
A Committee: Sir Ro. Phillippes, Mr. Alford, Sir Edw. Sands, Mr. Mallory, Mr. Crew, Sir Edw. Mountague, Sir Geor. Moore, Sir Nath. Rich, Mr. Hackwill, Sir D. Digges, Sir Edw. Gyles, Sir H. Poole, Sir Ro. Bevyll, Mr. Secretary, Master of the Wards, Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mercurii, 2o Maii. Post meridiem.
Masters of Chancery.
Jurisdiction of Parliament - Punishing Floyde.
[Sir Tho. Wentworth :] - The King's eldest Daughter respected in some Things, [by Act] of Parliament, more than any other Daughter. - Not to [go] to the Lords, nor petition the King: Not fit, if our Judgment [coram] non Judice. - To proceed by a Law. Though not [so speedy.] yet more safe and firm, especially for his Fine.
[Sir Edw. Cecill: ] - This Parliament expected to be the happiest, that ever * * may be so, if could get a Precedent. - By Mr. [Speaker,] and some select Committee, to attend him, to petition * * to be respectful of his Subjects. - Grieveth him, [that a] popish Knave should in the Face of this House, * a Cross, and think now, that this had preserved [him] from our Judgment.
[Sir Tho.] Jermyn: - Findeth no Justification, by any, of our Judgment. - [the King] sendeth us only a Quaere: Condemneth us not. - To * Mr. Speaker go to the King, to tell him, we not yet prepared [to] answer his Quaere's :
Daughter, of the same Nobility. - This a Contempt offered to the King's Person, who our Head; and therefore we, the Body, are to be sensible, and take Notice. - To make this Lady no Gentlewoman! - Goodwife ! - The King present in Person here. - If any speak against this House abroad, we send for him -
Sir Nath. Rich: - Because nothing crosseth our Judgment, but the Precedent 1 H. IV. - which an excellent Record for us, made in that Parliament, wherein the most prodigious Fact done, that ever in Parliament; which this House then disavowed : Which made the King and Lords, in Indignation, seclude them from Judgment in those Cases. The Fact was upon King Richard the 2d.
Mr. Noye : - Well resolved to go to the King. - To give him full Satisfaction in some Things. - Have stayed any Execution of our Judgment- - For the Quaeres made; - If any Man of the House had beaten Floyde, the King would not have been offended : Much less our Judgment. - Not to contest with the King, of our Right. To set down our Reasons, moving us, in this particular Cause, to proceed as we have done : For the general; not to disclaim in our Right, but to take time to search Precedents.
Sir Edw. Mountagew, Sir Ro. Phillippes, Sir D. Digges, Sir Edw. Cecill, Sir Nath. Rich, Mr. Alford, Sir H. Poole, Sir A. Ingram, Mr. Solicitor, Sir Geor. Moore, Sir Tho. Row, Mr. Chancellor Duchy, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Tho. Wentworth, Mr. Noye, Mr. Hackwyll, Sir Sam. Sands -
Master of the Wards: - To take especial Care of Sir Nath. Rich Motion, to answer the Record of 1 H. IV. - Neither to accuse or excuse ourselves. To shew our Judgment to have been hastened by our Zeal. To desire the King will deal with us as a Father.