Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 1, 1547-1629. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.
This free content was digitised by double rekeying. All rights reserved.
Sabbati, 5 Maii
Women not attending Church.
Mr. Snelling: - That a Patent granted to Sir... Boyle, for Survey of Sea-coals; which suspended by the Lords of the Council. That a new granted to Roger Langford. - Moveth, this Patent may be brought in to the Committee for Grievances ; and may proceed no further, till determined here. - Ordered: - Upon Friday next.
Sir H. Poole : - This Bill made at the Clothiers Suit, and at their Request. The worst, the Length; which may be helped at the Committee. The Scope good. - Let the Merchant have time, till Friday Noon, to buy; after, all others to have Liberty to buy.
Sir Geor. Moore: - To give a Pre-emption to the Clothier, for the Encouragement. - That Clothiers, in some Respects, good Members; in other, not: For give not the Poor competent Wages: - 3 d. a Day, and no more, to divers. -
Committed to the Two former Committees for Clothing : And all, that will come, to have Voice: - Wednesday next, Star-chamber : And the other Two Bills for Clothing, at the same Time; the same standing formerly committed. - The Petition, to be delivered with it, delivered in by Mr. Clench.
L. 2a. - Colchester - Sir H. Poole: - That this Bill will not be good for the Town of Colchester, by reason of the great Impositions upon Merchandizes. - Is against the Body of Bill ; because imposeth upon Merchandizes, and so hindereth free Trade. - That Paving both worthy a Parliament.
Committed to Mr. Alford, Knights and Burgesses of Essex, Sir George Moore, Sir Edw. Peyton, Sir D. Digges, Sir Ro. Askew, Sir Ro. Payne, Mr. Noye, Sir Wm. Strowde, Sir Tho. Low, Mr. Bartlet, Sir Tho. Bartlett, Sir Nath. Rich, Mr. Mallory, Knights of the Shire and Burgesses of Suffolke, Burgesses of Port Towns, Burgesses of Cinque Ports: - Thursday next, Star-chamber.
Mr. Langston, - for the Body of the Bill. - That Gloucester a County of itself, extending 7 or 8 Miles round about; and, if they be left out, will have much Benefit, some Part of the said Towns being within Three Miles of Tewkesbury. - That therefore they may contribute.
- By Law, all Towns corporate to bear their own Charge of Bridges. - That Tewkesbury standeth near Three other Counties, which have more Benefit, than Gloucestershyre. That they use it not almost at all. That they are able enough to do it.- - Gloucestershire never yet charged with it. - That they are able to do it; for now in hand with a Work, which will cost 3,000 l. That they offer many Wrongs to the County - Bohemia Gathering, and the Subsidy now.
Mr. Guy; - Not against the Body of the Bill: Against the Clause, to except Bristow, as Part of the County of Gloucester; which no Part. - Not to have the Extent into all Parts of the Shire, Part whereof 45 Miles from Tewkesbury. - Not to exceed 10 Miles from thence.
Committed to Sir D. Digges, Knights and Burgesses of Gloucester and Worcestershyre, and Stafford, and South Wales, Sir Edw. Baynton, Mr. Langston, Mr. Smyth, Mr. Nicholas, Sir M. Fleetewood, Mr. Pye, Sir A. Ingram, Mr. Connesby, Sir Tho. Low, Sir B. Hickes, Mr. Cooke :
Mr. Serjeant Ashley ; - Glad of this Bill. - To have it extend to Corporations ; who take too much Liberty. - Magna Charta provideth only against Commitments against Law : Now Imprisonment by Monopolists, Proclamations, &c.
Sir Edw. Coke: - Wisheth well to the Generality of this Bill; yet feareth, as penned, will not pass. Concurreth with Serjeant Ashley - Magna Charta 32 times confirmed in Parliament. - Great Cause of reviving this Statute. - Never so many falsely imprisoned, as of late. - Power of Imprisonment by Charters. - Power for Corporations to imprison, for want of Performance of a By-law, void. - If a Monopoly, and a Proclamation upon it, worthy to be punished, that advised it. -
That divers Matters of State, which not to be comprehended in the Warrant; for then may be disclosed. - Will never pass above. - Morrys put in the same Bill, which rejected. - One committed by the Body of the Council, not bailable by Law. Resolved so by all the Judges, in Wraye's Time, upon a Commitment by King, or Body of Council: For this out of the Statute of Magna Charta. - Adviseth London, and Corporations, how they commit free Men. - No Man can commit by Discretion :
Committed to Mr. Treasurer, Sir Edw. Coke, Sir Wm. Fleetewood, Sir Rich. Tichborne, Sir H. Poole, Citizens of London and Yorke, Sir Ge. Moore, Sir Francis Darcy, Sir Ro. Phillippes, Sir Geor. Manners, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Edw. Mountague, Sir Wm. Spencer, Serjeant Ashley, Sir P. Fretchwell, Mr. Noye, Sir Wm. Strowde, Sir 0. Luke, Sir Nath. Rich, Sir M. Fleetewood, Sir Edw. Peyton, Sir G. Gerrard, Sir J. Horsey, Sir D. Norton: - Tuesday next Star-chamber, Sir Wm. Fleetewood to take care of this Bill.
Sir Ro. Phillippes moveth for Sir Jo. Strangwayes, for Stay of a Matter against him, upon an Ejectione firmae, for Lands concerning him. - Resolved, A Warrant to issue, under Mr. Speaker's Hand, to the Party, for Stay of those Proceedings.
Jurisdiction of Parliament- Punishing Floyde.
- That the Lords desire not to expostulate. - By forbearing thus, we deny truly to confer. - That the Issue will be, 1. Whether we a Court of Record. 2ly. Whether we Jurisdiction. - To grant a Conference, as is desired. - That, what we can produce for us, will be rather upon Reason, than Precedent.
Sir Geor. Moore . - That, this a Court of Record, and have Conusance of this Cause. That, we may judge this Cause, without Oath, as we do in divers other Cases. - Have fined, and imprisoned, in divers Cases, and yet done it, without Oath.
Sir Sam. Sands: - That this Question grown upon a particular Fact; therefore, by no Propositions, to be drawn from this to any other Matters. - To handle, the Heads here to justify our Privileges, 1. That this a Court of Record, in ancient Reputation; and so used, and proved to be so, by divers Effects.
1. May proceed by Qath, incident to every Court of Record: No Precedent to the contrary, 2ly, Not necessary to all Judgments to give an Oath: As, when the Thing notoriously, known, or confessed : Where, coram non Judice, void: Where unjust; yet good, till reversed : So still here good. 3ly, We have proceeded here by Oath; the greatest Oaths of the Witnesses, that could be. The tendering of the Book not necessary. Abraham's Servant swore, by putting his Hand under Abraham's Thigh. No Exception to be taken to Want of Solemnity, where a sovereign Court (as this) from which no Appeal.
Sir Edw. Sands : - The Lords End being to accommodate, thinketh, they will neither question our being a Court of Record, nor the Matter of giving an Oath. The proper Question will be, whether the Subject be within our Conusance. This a doubtful Question. - Propoundeth a Narration to be made of the whole Matter. - This came hither accidentally : - That it concerning the King's Blood, we thought not fit to mix any other Thing with it. - The King present here, and in all Courts. - Not to enter into any solemn Debate. 2ly, To make a Protestation to the Lords, that we intended not, in this, to encroach upon the Liberties of their House.
- i. This a Court of Record; confessed so by the. King, in the first Session of Parliament, and by the Statute 6 H. VIII. 2ly, A Consequent, and Incident to a Court of Record, to give an Oath. - That, we have done, equivalent to an Oath. - That, if any Man shall here speak upon his Allegiance, and falsly, we may send him to the Tower, and fine him. -
That 15o Ed. II. in the Judgment of the Spencers, the same, being after, 28o Edw. III. questioned, was reversed by the King, Lords, and Commons. That 4 Ed. III. a Judgment given against Mortymer, Earl of March: That questioned 28o Ed. III. and reversed by the King, Lords, and Commons [a].
Master of the Wards : - Like, the Questions will be, whether we be a Court of Record, or not; and whether we have Conusance of any thing of this Nature. - Wisheth, if we put upon those Straits, to take Time of Advice.