House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 08 May 1621

Martis, 8o Maii

Bassett's Estate.

L. 1a. AN Act for strengthening a Lease, made by Sir Ro. Bassett, Knight, for Preservation of his Estate to Arthur Bassett Esquire, his Son and Heir, which hath been weakened by a Decree unduly obtained in Chancery.

Magdalen College.

L. 1a. An Act for the Reversing and making void of a Decree made in Chancery, and of all Orders and Injunctions thereupon, had and made against the Master and Fellows of Magdalen College in Cambridge, and Jo. Smyth, Lessee, at the Suit and Prosecution of the Earl of Oxenforde, &c.

Women not attending Church.

L. 2a. - 12d. - Sunday. - Committed to the Committee for the new Bill against Recusants: - At the same Time, and Place.

Malt.

L. 1a. - Malt.

Ordnance.

Sir Tho. Row . - Fit to have Two, and not One only, to make Iron Ordnance.

Monopolies.

A Question being about a Proviso, in the End of the Bill of Monopolies, which was put in, either by mistaking,

or some other Misdemeanor; it is ordered, that the Committee, formerly appointed for that Bill, shall withdraw into the Committee Chamber; and there examine how the same came in ; and reform it.

Merchant Adventurers.

Two Petitions read, against the Merchant Adventureres, by the Clothiers.

Mr. Towerson moveth, that the Company may have Copies, and answer it.

Resolved, The Company shall answer it here, Tomorrow in the Afternoon; and the Clothiers to be then heard, to maintain their Opinions.

Ordnance.

The Question, between Crow and Browne, to be determined, upon the Bill of Ordnance. -

Proviso.

The same Committee to examine the Abuse about this Proviso: And the same to be taken out.

Quarrel between Members.

Mr. Whitby : First to hear Sir Ch. Morrison and Mr. Coke, before either of them be called in as Delinquents.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle: - To have them both come in, and take their Places.

Mr. Noy: - This Affray done in full Parliament, occasioning a Terror to the People assembled in Parliament. - That both faulty. - 10 Ed. II. Hughe Spencer, at the Parliament in Lincolne, and the Lord Rosse; One drew a Knife, the other gave a Blow Both spoken to by the Attorney-general. - And now to be charged by Mr. Speaker with this Affray; and, upon their Hearing, to excuse, or condemn, as Cause. - Spencer and Rosse both particularly charged with their several Offences, in Presence of the King, and Terror of the People. 12 H. VI. a Statute made for this. - No Man knoweth the End of this. - Either of them, at the Bar, to be charged by Mr. Speaker with making an Affray.

Mr. Alford: - Not to call them to the Bar, till further accused.

Sir H. Withrington: - That One of them hath received a Blow: - Therefore bring them not in together; - for if he had received a Blow, would, whatsoever they should do with him, strike him at Bar.

Mr. Recorder: - To call them both to the Bar.

Sir Wm. Strowde: - To have every one here speak what he knoweth, or saw, in this Business.

Sir Wm. Herberte: - To call them both to the Bar.

Mr. Treasurer moveth, both may come in, and sit in their Places; and there Mr. Speaker charge them; and so proceed, as, upon Examination, shall be found fitting.

Sir H. Poole: - That the House wronged. - Both have offended in One Kind, though in different Manner.

Mr. Noye, from the Committee, which (Mr. Speaker going out of the Chair) now debated the Business: - 1. That Mr. Coke should come to the Bar, and be charged, that he had stricken Sir Ch. Morrison, going down the Parliament-stairs : And that then Sir Ch. Morrison should, at the Bar, be charged with drawing a Sword upon Mr. Coke.

Mr. Alford: - That divers Blows given by Mr. Coke to Sir Ch. M.

Sir D. Norton: - That Mr. Coke drew his Sword first also.

Sir Wm. Boulstreade: - That Mr. Coke had no Sword, but drew another Man's Sword; as was informed; for saw it not.

Upon Question, Mr. Coke to be first called in, and charged by Mr. Speaker.

Mr.Coke, coming in (not to the Bar, but standing by) was charged by Mr. Speaker with making an Assault, and striking Sir Ch. Morrison, during the Parliament, and upon the Parliament-stairs, to the Terror of the Members of the House.

Mr. Coke: - That, sitting by Sir Ch. Morrison, and wishing, that the Glass-men might be called in. Words grew about Asses and Glasses. -

Confesseth, that he struck Sir Ch. M. twice.

Mr. Speaker to require Sir Ch. M. to relate the Truth of what he said.

Mr. Speaker chargeth Sir Ch. M. with an Offence of making an Affray this Parliament, with a Sword upon Mr. Coke, to the Disturbance of the Parliament: And to make true Relation.

Sir Ch. Morrison relateth, that Yesterday was seven-night he came into the House ; and sitting by Mr. Glanvyle, Mr. Coke, and Mr. Herberte; and asking Mr. Glanvyle, what Patent this was; and he saying, -

That Mr. Coke struck him twice. -

That he, getting a Sword from his Man, and meant to have struck him, with the Scabbard on, but not to have drawn - him.

Master of the Wards moveth, now these Two Gentlemen heard, to fall to the Business about the Conference this Afternoon; and to put this off till To-morrow Morning; and then to be here, again: And Sir B. Hickes, and Mr. Whitby to take the Charge of them, and bring them then, as they did before.

Jurisdiction of Parliament -Punishing Floyde.

Sir D. Digges. To have the Business, about the Conference, debated now: and to have every Man limited, - what he shall speak, for the Matter of Substance; and not trust upon any particular Man.

Sir H. Withrington, accordant.

Sir Ro. Phillippes concurreth. - To hold all good Correspondence with the Lords, as the Ground of all Good to the Commonwealth. -

Like, the Lords will shew us, they have examined the Precedents, vouched by us last Conference; and, that they do not find how, without straining, they can be suited to the Case in Question: That they have examined ourReasons ; and answer them with other Reasons. - That the Lords will move, how this Question may be best accommodated. -

Moveth, that the Gentlemen, to be employed, may make a great Protestation of Desire, to hold Correspondence with them, and no Purpose to violate any their Privileges. - To move the Lords, to nominate a select Committee, to debate the Differences about this Business ; but principally to accommodate this Business.

Sir Edw. Sands: - That the Preparation to the last Conference a mere Confusion; at Three of the Clock no Man knowing what he was to speak: - That, for the future, adviseth more Care. - Last Day a great Mistaking in the Lords. - That Sir Ed. Coke undertook, by Precedent to prove, this House to be a Court of Record, Where that not the Question. That the Lords conceived, these Precedents to have been vouched, in Maintenance of our Judgment here: Yet this not the Lords Faults. That this hath bred another ; that we intended to stand upon our Judgment, by way of Precedent. That hereupon some of us alleged, that, in this, no Precedent was to be expected. - That therefore the Lords, at this Conference, may be informed, that this Allegation of Precedents was but collateral. - Conceiveth, this will take away a great Part of the Difference betwixt the Lords and us, - To prevent the least Suspicion of any Difference between the Lords and us. - 1. To make no Fraction with them, 2ly. No Cause of any Fraction for this Cause. No Precedent to be expected in this Case: But this to be made good by Reason. - Moveth, a Justification of our Judgment by Reason. - That we conceive, our Judgment of a Matter within this our Jurisdiction. - To accommodate this Business by some amicable Composition. To have a Sub-committee appointed.

Sir D. Digges; - That the Lords Preamble, and ours, last Conference, was right. - Wisheth, we had afterwards holden to it. - A Sub-committee to be appointed for that more fit, than -

The Argument not right: " You have not done it, therefore you have no. Power." - To intimate to the Lords, our Haste last Day, with Desire to give them Meeting, made some Things fall, which were generally disclaimed by us.

Sir J. Horsey; - Remembereth, at a Conference with the Lords -

Mr. Alford concurreth with Sir Ro. Phillippes, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir D. Digges.

Sir Tho. Row: - That the Lords will question our Power in hoc individuo. - That Mr. Nevill said, Mr. Noye hath Two Precedents, in the Point.

Mr. Noye: - Hath a Precedent, of one Berisford, 4o Edw. III. - That the Lords said, Berisford was none of their Peers; therefore they would not deal with it; and that, though afterwards they did it -

Master of the Wards answereth a Charge laid upon him, that he should say, we were no Court of Record. - That he informed the House, before the last Conference, that it was like, it would be questioned, that we were no Court of Record. That he never delivered his Opinion so, nor thinketh so. - To hear the Lords : To pursue their Steps. - That we addressed ourselves to, the King, had a fair Answer; and had we not entered the Judgment, knoweth, before this Time, we had had our Desires from the King. - To hear the Lords this Day, but not to answer; for so they did with us. - Too much Haste in this House,

Sir Geor. Moore: - We have yielded to confer freely. Our Judgment just. - Not to give any Account to the Lords of our Judgment.

Sir Francis Seymor: - Only to hear this Day, and to desire from the Lords a Sub-committee.

Mr. Recorder: - We have already yielded a free Conference; therefore cannot be only Hearers. - To prepare for it. - That the Committee here may have Power to desire a Sub-committee from the Lords. - That some Answer is to be given to the King : Yet a fair Excuse hitherto, the Lords entertaining with it. That the Lords Judgment of Berisford, with as much Celerity, as ours; yet the Party never confessed this: Yet the Party hanged, drawn, and quartered, in respect of the Notoriety of it.

Mr. Crew: - That bound to confer, and freely . - Not to bind ourselves, nor leave all to Discretion. - Moveth, a Sub-committee, to accommodate the Business.

Mr. Solicitor: - The Lords resolved, what they will debate; we know it not. - That Motion, if Cause, to the Lords, for a Sub-committee; and they to consider, and report to the House. .

Mr. Alford: - If the Lords propound a Sub-committee, then to acquaint the House with it.

Sir Tho. Wentworth: - To move the Lords, at the Conference, for a Sub-committee.

Mr. Mallett: - No Message.

Sir Francis Goodwyn, contra.

Sir Edw. Mountague, - against the Message. - A Subcommittee fit; and the fairest Way, to nominate a Subcommittee now.

Sir Tho. Hobby: - No Sub-committee to be nominated now; but a Reporter to be nominated now, to report back to the House.

Sir Nath. Rich: - Clear, that this Committee shall not, upon this Particular, question the general Power and Privilege of the House. - To protest our Desire of Correspondence with the Lords; and that we intended not to encroach upon their Liberties by this Precedent.

Mr. Noye: - Not fit now to make a Sub-committee now: - Know not, what the Subject of the Conference will be; so know not how to make Choice of fitting Committees.

Resolved, That in this Conference, nothing -

Master of the Wards, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Sam. Sands, Sir D. Digges, Mr. Crew, Mr. Noye, Mr. Recorder, Sir Ro. Phillippes, Mr. Hackwyll, Dr. Gooch, Dr. Zouch: These are appointed to speak at the Conference, as Occasion shall be offered,

Master of the Wards: - 1. To hear the Lords: 2ly, Not to meddle with the general Power of either House : 3ly, To have as little Conference as we can.

Sir Edw. Sands to report the Conference back to the Lords.

Mr. Speaker to be here again at Four of the Clock this Afternoon.

Jurisdiction of Parliament - Punishing Floyde.

SIR Edw. Sands reporteth from the Conference; That the Lords began. That the Archbishop said, the Lords had taken great Joy in the Union of the Two Houses, and desired, it might continue: That we had in all, but this, punctually held our Rights, and their Privileges: - Marvelled, we should, in this, vary so much from all our former Actions; yet such their Love, as, though the Parties (as they conceived) wronged, yet they desired Reconciliation ; and yet desired, by all Means, to compose and accommodate it. -

That the Master of the Wards - a Protestation, how far from the House to exceed their Bounds; and the Desire of the Continuance thereof. - That, for this Purpose, we rather desired Accommodation, than Argument and Defence. - Moved, a Sub-committee, from both Houses : Which the Lords assented to.

Master of the Wards: - That perceived, the Lords intended,this Course before; and propounded privately 15, or 16.

Sir Edw. Cecill: - That the Lords expect to hear from us concerning this Sub-committee. - Master of the Wards to intimate to them, that we cannot well attend this Business, until Friday.

Sir Wm. Strowde, contra. - Better to dispatch it now:

- therefore to intimate no Time to the Lords, but to leave it to them.

Mr. Treasurer, accordant.

Mr. Chancellor of the Duchy, - for some Time. - To debate Things first.

Mr. Glanvyle moveth, the Sub-committees may have no Power to propose any thing; but so, as some Example may be made of this Man's Punishment. 2ly, If we gain no Honour, to lose none. - That the House shall suffer nothing, by yielding, that we will not hereafter make use of this Precedent, to strengthen our own Privileges.

Upon Question, a Message presently to the Lords. Sir Edw. Sands to deliver this Message.

Mr. Recorder: - To treat and debate now, what the Sub-committee shall do in this Business. - Our Judgment not reversable by any other Court.

Sir D. Digges: - That this Sub-committee, from us, must propose; -

Mr. Solicitor: - That it can do no Harm to this House, to agree, that no Use of this Precedent shall be hereafter made, for increasing of our Power, or for abridging the Lords.

Dr. Gooch: - Not to propound the Course of Mediation to the Lords. - We have Hitherto suffered, having given a Judgment justly.

Sir Edw. Sands reporteth from the Committee -

Mr. Treasurer, Sir Edw. Coke, Master of the Wards, Lord Cavendish, Sir Edw. Cecill, Sir Edw. Mountagew, Sir Francis Darcy, Sir Tho. Wentworth, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Nath. Rich, Mr. Chancellor Duchy, Sir H. Withrington, Sir Tho. Lucy, Sir Geor. Manners, Sir Wm. Spencer, Mr. Alford, Mr. Recorder, Mr. Noye, Mr. Crew, Sir H. Poole, Sir Geor. Moore, Mr. Solicitor, Sir D. Digges, Mr. Glanvyle, Sir Sam. Sands, Sir Wm. Strowde, Sir Rich. Tichborne, Dr. Gooch, Mr. Finch, Sir Francis Barrington, Sir H. Fane, Lord Wriothesley.

Little's Nat.

L. 2a. A Bill for Naturalisation of. . . Little: - Committed to Sir Geor. Moore, Sir Francis Goodwyn, Sir J. Perrott, Mr. Wild, Sir A. Ingram, Mr. Cooke, Mr. Brandling, Sir Tho. Wyse, Mr. Pryce, Sir Rich. Gravenor, Sir Tho. Hamond, Mr. Vaughan, Mr. Spencer, Mr. Coucher:

- To-morrow Morning, in the Committee Chamber.

Best's Nat.

L. 2a. An Act for the Naturalisation of Jaques de Best:

- Committed to the same Committee: - At the same Time and Place.

Several Orders.

The Bill of Grace, for Wales, - To-morrow, Eight of the Clock; and then the Lord Mountagew's Bill.

Hollyman.

L. 2a. - Hollyman. - Committed to Sir Geor. Moore, Sir A. Ingram, Mr. Wyld, Sir To. Trevor, Sir James Perrott, Mr. Mann, Mr. Carye, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Francis Goodwynn, Sir Rich. Gravenor, Sir Jo. Heppesley, Sir Tho. Hamond, Sir Jo. Ratcliffe, Mr. Wingfeild: - This Day sevennight, Exchequer. ...