Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 10, 1688-1693. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.
This free content was digitised by double rekeying. All rights reserved.
Jovis, 21 die Martii; 1° Willielmi et Mariæ.
Privilege-a person reprimanded and discharged.
A PETITION of Henry Lloyd, Gentleman, in Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, was read.
Resolved, That he be called in to the Bar; and receive a Reprimand upon his Knees; and that he be then discharged, paying his Fees.
He was brought in to the Bar; and, upon his Knees, had a Reprimand from Mr. Speaker, accordingly.
Navy and Army Establishments.
Mr. Papillion reports from the Committee, to whom it was referred to consider, and report to the House, what Sum may be necessary to allow, by the Year, for the Charge of a Summer and Winter Guard at Sea, and Guards and Garisons at Land, and the Office of Ordnance, that they had directed him to move the House, that the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty may be desired to attend the Committee To-morrow Morning, at Eight a Clock; to which Time they have adjourned.
Ordered, That the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty be desired to attend accordingly.
Ordered, That all Committees be revived.
Colonel Birch reports from the Committee of Privileges and Elections, to whom the Matter of Election of Burgesses to serve in this present Parliament for the Borough of the Devizes in the County of Wilts was referred, the State of the Fact as it appeared to the Committee; which he produced to the House in Writing: Which, being read at the Table, is as followeth;
Upon the Petition of Sir John Eyles, and William Trenchard, Esquire, against the Election of Sir Wm. Pinsent, Baronet, Walter Grubb, Esquire, Sitting Members;
That the Question was, Whether the Mayor and Burgesses, as a select Number, had the Right of Election; or, all the free Burgesses of the Borough.
That the Petitioners Counsel insisted, the Borough was a Borough by Prescription, and not a Corporation by Prescription: And that all the Burgesses had a Right to elect:
And produced a Charter of 15 E. III; being a Grant to the Burgesses and their Successors: And
An Indenture of a Return of 2 H. V, of Burgesses, by the Sheriff of the County, as chosen for the Community of the Borough: And
Another Indenture of 1 Mariæ; wherein it was said, The Mayor, pro se, et communitate Burgi, had returned the Burgesses: And
An Indenture of Return, of 31 Car. II, made by the Mayor and Burgesses in general.
And the Counsel said, They had Copies of other Returns between these times; but that the Records could not be found to examine them therewith.
That the Petitioners also produced a Witness: Who said, a Poll was now demanded by the Petitioners for all the Burgesses, and was denied; and, upon Cross-examination, said, He had lived near 60 Years in the Town; and known several Elections; but none that was by the Popularity but One, about 8 Years since; when Sir Giles Hungerford and Sir John Eyles, (One of the now Petitioners) were returned by that Choice, against Sir Walter Earnly, Baronet, and George Johnson, Esquire, who were chosen by the select Numbers.
And that the Petitioners did not make out, that any other Election, but That, was by the Populacy, or Burgesses in general.
For the Sitting Members;
That it was insisted, that it was a Corporation by Prescription; and that the Right of Election was in the Mayor and Burgesses, as a select Number.
And produced Returns, of 43° Eliz. 1° Jac. Imi, 21° Jac. Imi, 1° Car. Imi, by the Mayor and Burgesses:
And that they said they had several others:
And a Charter of 3° Jac. Im; wherein it was recited, That the Mayor and Burgesses had, Time out of Mind, divers Immunities, Franchises and Privileges:
And therefore, it was insisted, That it was a Corporation by Prescription,
And as to the Election in 1679, that it was proved Sir Walter Ernly and Mr. Johnson petitioned against it; but that it was not decided.
And then the now Petitioner, Sir John Eyles, gave to the then Mayor (one Whatton) a Bond of 2,000£. dated 15 Sept. 1679, (which was proved by that Mayor himself) to save him harmless against all Damages, by Reason of his making that Return of Sir Giles Hungerford, and the said Sir John Eyles.
And that he said further, That he was fearful to make that Return, by the Election of the Burgesses in general; it being never done before, that he knew of; and therefore, being pressed to make it, took the Bond.
And that thereupon the Committee came to Two Resolves: Which he read in his Place; and then delivered them in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same being read, are as follow:
Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Right of Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of the Devizes in the County of Wilts, is in the Mayor and select Number of the Burgesses of the said Borough, only.
Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That Sir Wm. Pinsent, Baronet, and Walter Grubb, Esquire, are duly elected to serve as Burgesses in this present Parliament for the Borough of the Devizes in the County of Wilts.
The First of the said Resolves being read a Second time;
Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Committee, That the Right of Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of the Devizes in the County of Wilts, is in the Mayor and select Number of the Burgesses of the said Borough, only.
The Second of the said Resolves being read a Second time;
Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Committee, That Sir Wm. Pinsent, Baronet, and Walter Grubb, Esquire, are duly elected to serve as Burgesses in this present Parliament for the Borough of the Devizes in the County of Wilts.
Colonel Birch, reported from the Committee of Privileges and Elections, to whom the Merits of the Double Return for the Borough of Knaresbrough in the County of Yorke was referred, the State of the Fact, as it appeared to the Committee: Which he produced to the House in Writing; which being read, is as followeth:
That the Boroughmen of the ancient Borough of Knaresbrough in the County of Yorke, on the Twelfth Day of January, with an unanimous Consent, have freely chosen Wm. Stockdale, Esquire, to be One of their Two Representatives in the Convention to be holden at Westminster the 22d of January.
And the Lord Viscount Latimer, by the Majority of the ancient and new Votes together;
Or, Thomas Fawkes, Esquire, by the Majority of the ancient Votes, who has been sworn in Court and relieved, for their Borough-houses, according to the Custom of the said Borough; to be the other of the Two Representatives in the said Convention.
That the ancient Votes for Mr. Fawkes, agreed on all Sides to be good, were 25.
That the ancient Votes for the Lord Latimer, agreed on all Sides to be good, were 16; and the new Votes, transferred lately, but otherwise good, were 18.
That the Return and Petition of the Lord Latimer, and the Petition of Mr. Fawkes, concerning the said Election, coming in course to be heard before the Committee, on Monday the 18th of February last, the same was put off till Monday the 4th of March instant; before which Time the Lord Latimer was dead:
And, it appearing to the Committee, upon the Face of the Return, that Mr. Fawkes had 25 old Voices, and the Lord Latimer but 19; and that no Petition had been presented in Behalf of the Borough; they did not think fit to grant any longer Time: And therefore they came to a Resolution: Which he read in his Place; and after delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same being read, is as followeth:
Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That Thomas Fawkes, Esquire, is duly elected a Burgess to serve in this present Parliament for the Borough of Knaresborough in the County of Yorke.
The said Resolve being read a Second time;
Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Committee, that Thomas Fawkes, Esquire, is duly elected a Burgess to serve in this present Parliament for the Borough of Knaresborough in the County of Yorke.
Ordered, That the Bailiff of the Borough of Knaresborough in the County of Yorke do attend this House, to amend the Return of Burgesses to serve for the said Borough.
State of Ireland.
The House then, according to the Order of Yesterday, resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, to take into Consideration the State of Ireland.
Mr. Speaker left the Chair.
Mr. Hamden took the Chair of the Committee.
Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.
Royal Assent to a Bill.
A Message by Sir Tho. Duppa, Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod.
The King commands this Honourable House to attend Him immediately, in the House of Peers.
Accordingly Mr. Speaker, with the House, went up to the House of Peers, to attend his Majesty: And they being returned;
Mr. Speaker acquainted the House, that he had presented the Bill for the Granting a present Aid to his Majesty; and that his Majesty had passed the Bill.
State of Ireland.
The House then proceeded in the further Consideration of the State of Ireland.
Mr. Speaker left the Chair.
Mr. Hamden took the Chair of the Committee.
Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.
Mr. Hamden reports from the Committee of the whole House, that they having, according to the Order of the House, taken into Consideration the State of Ireland, there had been delivered in to the Committee,
Troops for Ireland.
An ESTIMATE of the Charge of Six Regiments of Horse, Two Regiments of Dragoons, and Twenty-five Regiments of Foot (whereof Sixteen to be raised); making 22,330 Men, besides Officers, to be employed in the Service of Ireland; computed for One Year, commencing the First Day of March, 1688-9.
Memorandum, For every 20,000£. necessary for the Pay of several Regiments above mentioned, there is to be One thousand more allowed for the General Officers, &c.; and for the ordinary Charges incident to the Forces; viz. Medicaments, Fire and Candle, Carriage of Arms, Ammunition, Field Pieces, &c. besides the extraordinary Expence of this Expedition.
Office of Ordnance, the 15th Day of March, 1688-9.
A Proportion and Valuation of a Train of Artillery, and the incident Stores and Habiliments of War pertaining thereunto (the said Train being to consist of Four teen pieces of Cannon, and Two Mortar-pieces) together with a List, and the Appointments, of the proper Officers, Ministers, and Attendants of the said Train, directed to be employed for his Majesty's Service in the Kingdom of Ireland, pursuant to a Signification of his Excellency the Mareschall Duke de Schomberg, bearing Date the 14th March, 1688-9, to this Board, to form and calculate the said Proportion and Valuation for the Space and Service of One Year; together with a Calculation of the Charge of completely arming of Six Regiments of Horse, Two Regiments of Dragoons, and Twenty-five Regiments of Foot; consisting, in all, of 22,330. Men; as also, of the Ammunition and Stores of War, of all Kinds, proportionable thereunto; viz.
A List of the proper Officers, Ministers, and Attendants; with their Appointments incident to this Train; viz.
Memorandum, That the Tonage, Freight and Charge of Transportation to Ireland is not cast into this Estimate.
That no small Guns, or Field-pieces, for the Battallions, being mentioned in the Establishment, are herein considered;
That no Carriages or Teams, for Draft, are estimated for more than what relates to the Train of Artillery.
Both which Accounts amounting to the Sum of 714,117£. 6s. 4d.;
Supply for reducing Ireland.
A Motion being made, for a Supply to be given to his Majesty, towards the Reducing of Ireland;
Resolved, That this House will resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, To-morrow Morning, at Ten of the Clock, to consider of that Motion.
And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine a Clock.