BHO

House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 14 December 1691

Pages 584-586

Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 10, 1688-1693. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.

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Citation:

Table of contents

Lunæ, 14 die Decembris; 3° Gulielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Army Estimates.

ORDERED, That the Committee to whom the Consideration of the Estimates relating to the Army is referred, have Leave to sit, notwithstanding the House be sitting.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Sir Wm. Stevens have Leave to go into the Country, for a Fortnight, to attend the Funeral of a near Relation.

Mountague's Estate.

An ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act for the vesting and settling divers Lands in Gloucestershire, in Trustees, to be sold, for the paying the remaining Portions of the Children of George Mountague, Esquire, deceased, was read the Second time,

Ordered, That the Bill be read the Third time.

St. Anne's Westminster Parish.

Ordered, That Leave be given to bring in a Bill for supplying the Defects in a late Act for erecting the Parish of Saint Anne out of the Parish of Saint Martin's in the Fields.

Burton's Estate.

An ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act for the enabling Sir Thomas Burton, Baronet, to sell Lands, for Payment of Debts, was read the First time.

Ordered, That the Bill be read a Second time.

Clandestine Marriages.

An ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act disabling Minors to marry without the Consent of their Fathers, or Guardians, and against their untimely Marrying after the Decease of their Fathers; and for preventing all clandestine Marriages for the future, was read the First time.

Ordered, That the Bill be read a Second time.

Lord Hatton's Estate.

Sir Joseph Tredenham reported from the Committee to whom the ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act for settling a Fee Farm Rent of One hundred Pounds per Annum, upon the Bishop of Ely, and his Successors to be issuing out of Hatton Garden in the County of Middlesex, and the Messuages thereupon erected, and for settling and assuring the same, subject to the said Rent, upon Christopher Lord Viscount Hatton, his Heirs and Assigns for ever, was committed, That they had made some Amendments to the Bill; which they had directed him to report to the House: And which he read in his Place, with the Coherence; and afterwards, delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were once read throughout; and are as followeth; viz.

Press *, Line 2, after "Elizabeth," add "under which Conveyance the said Lord Viscount Hatton claimeth the Premises."

Line 8, after "Assigns," add "who are to hold the same, subject to the said annual Rent."

Which Amendments, being severally read a Second time, were upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

The Bill was read the Third time.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be agreed to.

Ordered, That Sir Jos. Tredenham do carry the Bill to the Lords, and acquaint them, That this House hath agreed to the Bill, with the said Amendments; and desire their Concurrence to the said Amendments.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Sir John Hoskyns;

Smith's Estate.

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have passed a Bill, intituled, An Act to enable Trustees to sell the Estate of Edward Smith, Esquire, deceased, to raise Monies for Payment of his Debts; and to make Provision for his Children who are Infants: To which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Tythe of Hemp and Flax.

Also the Lords have agreed to the Bill, intituled, An Act for the better ascertaining the Tythe of Hemp and Flax, with an Amendment: To which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

The Amendment to the said Bill was once read; And is,

Line 29, after "Shillings," add "before the same be carried off the Ground."

The said Amendment, being read the Second time, was, upon the Question put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

Ordered, That Sir John Dorrell do carry the Bill to the Lords; and acquaint them, That this House hath agreed to the said Amendment.

Robert's Estate.

Ordered, That the ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act to vest certain Messuages, Lands, and Tenements in Thorpe, Langton, and elsewhere in the County of Leicester, in Trustees, to be sold for Payment of Debts of Richard Roberts, Esquire, and for raising Portions for his Daughters, be read To-morrow Morning a Second time.

Albury, &c. Lands enfrancishement.

Ordered, That the ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act for enfranchising several Lands and Tenements holden of the Manor of Albury and North Mims in the County of Hertford, be read To-morrow Morning.

Supply Bill; Excise.

An ingrossed Bill for granting to their Majesties certain Impositions upon Beer, Ale, and other Liquors, for One Year, was, according to the Order of the Day, read the Third time.

An ingrossed Clause was offered, as a Rider, to the Bill; That true Notes of the Gauges shall be left by the Gaugers with all Brewers, or Retailers of Beer, or other exciseable Liquors, upon Penalty of for every Offence.

And the same was twice read, and amended at the Table.

Resolved, That the Blank be filled up with "Forty Shillings."

And then it was read the Third time.

Resolved, That the Clause be made Part of the Bill.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be, An Act for granting to their Majesties certain Impositions upon Beer, Ale, and other Liquors, for One Year.

Ordered, That Mr. Solicitor General do carry the said Bill to the Lords; and desire their Concurrence thereunto.

Punishing Mutiny and Desertion.

A Bill for the paying the Army, according to the Musters of effective Men, and for better Paying of Quarters, and likewise for Preventing of false Musters, and for punishing Mutineers and Deserters, was, according to the Order of the Day, read a Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House.

Resolved, That this House will, upon Wednesday Morning next, at Ten a Clock, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the said Bill.

Clandestine trading to France.

The House being informed, that one Captain Tilford, who is in the Custody of one Davyes a Messenger, can inform of several Persons trading with France;

And the Question being put, That the said Tilford and Davyes be sent for to attend this House;

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.

Tellers for the Yeas, Sir Rob. Cotton, 36.
Sir Cha. Windham,
Tellers for the Noes, Sir Rob. Davers, 177.
Mr. Fenwick,

So it passed in the Negative.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Sir John Hoskyns;

Causes in Chancery.

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have passed a Bill, intituled, An Act for the better Reviewing of Causes in Chancery, and other Courts of Equity: To which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Conference desired.

Also the Lords desire a Conference with this House, To-morrow Morning at Eleven a Clock, in the Painted Chamber, upon the Subject Matter of a former Conference relating to Papers taken in a French Vessel.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Resolved, That this House doth agree to a Conference with the Lords, as the Lords do desire.

And the Messengers were called in again; and acquainted therewith.

Army Estimates, &c.

Sir John Guise, according to the Order of the Day, reported from the Committee to whom the Consideration of the Estimates relating to the Army in England, Scotland, and the West Indies, and to be transported beyond the Seas, was referred, That they had considered the same; and had come to several Resolutions thereupon; and directed him to report, That, out of the Sixty-four thousand Nine hundred and Twenty-four Men voted by the House for the Service of next Year, Twelve thousand Nine hundred and Sixty being set apart for the Service of Ireland, under different Considerations of Pay and otherwise, from those within the Care of this Committee, the Numbers for other Service that remain, are Fifty-one thousand Nine hundred and Sixty-four: Which Forces stand upon Three Establishments; viz. the English, the Danes, and the Dutch: According to which Method, the Committee proceeded, and considered first of the English Forces, in relation to their Order, Discipline, Pay, &c. and to compare several Establishments made in the time of King Charles the Second, King James, and his present Majesty; and found a Difference in the Pay of the Two Regiments of English Foot Guards, their Pay being advanced; and then considered of the Officers and Soldiers Pay; and found to agree with the Establishment.

That the Committee considered of the Danish Establishment; and afterwards, the Dutch Establishments: Which, upon comparing, they found the Pay of some Officers greater than the English Establishments; and some Officers very low in their Pay upon the same Establishments; as Lieutenants and Ensigns, Three Shillings, and Two Shillings and Six-pence per Diem.

But that they thought it fit to have the English Establishments the Measure for all the rest, concerning the said Matters; and thereby, for One hundred Twenty-five Troops of Horse, containing Seven thousand Seven hundred and Seventy Men, their Charge is Five hundred Thirty-three thousand Seven hundred and Sixty-three Pounds Sixteen Shillings and Eight-pence.

That, for Thirty-six Troops of Dragoons, containing Two thousand Four hundred and Eighty Men, the Charge is One hundred thousand Two hundred and Fifty-three Pounds Six Shillings and Eight-pence.

That, for Six hundred Fourteen Companies of Foot, making Forty-one thousand Seven hundred and Fourteen, the Charge is Eight hundred Fifty-five thousand Eight hundred and Twelve Pounds Ten Shillings and Six-pence.

So that the Total of Horse, Dragoons, and Foot, is

Troops and Companies 775
Number of Men 51,964
£. s. d.
And the whole Charge of them 1,489,829 14 -

That, in the next place, the Committee considered of the List of the General Officers, and their Pay: And comparing it with the ancient English Establishment, in which there were not found Two General Officers that are upon the present List; viz. a General of the Foot, and a General of the Horse: Which was debated.

And that afterwards, the Committee took into Consideration the Establishment of the Garisons: And, having gone through all the Heads, entered into a Debate, That the Garisons being a like Charge in War and Peace, were . . Opinion, Nothing ought to be considered by them, but what was an extraordinary Charge, by reason of this War.

That they then proceeded to consider of the Estimates for the Ordnance: And that it being agreed by those to whose Care it belonged, That the Estimates were calculated in a Proportion to the whole Number of Men voted: And that, whereas a little more than half were designed to pass the Seas, those Heads ought to be reduced accordingly' which related to this Reference: Yet because all the Heads did not, they thought convenient to consider each Head particularly; and did the same accordingly.

So that the Sum of Two hundred Fifty-four thousand Six hundred and Eight Pounds Sixteen Shillings and Three Pence, which was brought in upon the Heads of the Ordnance, was lessened to Two hundred and Ten thousand Seven hundred and Seventy-three Pounds Four Shillings and Five-pence.

That then the Committee considered the Estimate of the Transportation: Which they thought convenient likewise to consider, Head by Head: And being of Two Parts, one for the Transport of the Forces, the other of the Ordnance, they proceeded first upon the Forces: And whereas the whole Sum given in for the Transport, was One hundred and thirty-six thousand Pounds, they abated the same to Ninety-two thousand Two hundred and Seventy-two Pounds Fifteen Shillings and Two-pence.

That then they proceeded upon the Ordnance: Which was of the same Nature with the former: And whereas the whole Charge of transporting the Ordnance was given in at Twenty thousand Three hundred and Seventy-five Pounds, they reduced the same to Fifteen thousand Four hundred and Seventy-eight Pounds Three Shillings and Six-pence.

But that it seemed unreasonable, That the Forces should be paid by the Day, and yet be provided at Sea also: And that the said Deductions being made through all the Heads of the Transports accordingly, the Two Totals for Transportation did make up the whole Charge of Transportation, as abated by the Committee; a Deduction being made throughout all the Computation, according to the former Vote of the One hundred and Seven thousand Seven hundred and Fifty Pounds Eighteen Shillings and Eight-pence.

And that, in relation to the Matters aforesaid, the Resolutions of the Committee were as followeth;

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Number of Officers and Soldiers in a Regiment be the same with the present Establishments.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the additional Pay to the Officers of the Two English Regiments of Foot Guards, established for the Year 1691, be continued for the Year 1692.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Pay of the Field Staff Officers, commissioned and Non-commissioned Officers, and Soldiers upon the English Establishments, designed to serve in England, Scotland, the West Indies, and to be transported beyond the Seas, for the Year 1692, be the same with the Year 1691.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Danish Establishments are reasonable to continue for the Service of the Year 1692.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Dutch Establishment be reduced to the English Rates wherein it exceeds the same.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Dutch Establishments be raised to the English Rates, wherein it is less.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Establishment of the Dutch Forces, being computed according to the English Pay, is reasonable, and to be the Establishment for the Dutch Troops in the English Pay, for the Year 1692.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Pay in the Estimate laid before this Committee, for General Officers, be the Pay for the General Officers for the Year 1692.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Establishment of their Majesties Garisons and Forts for the Year 1692, are to be paid out of the public Revenue.

Resolved, That Twenty-two thousand Pounds of the Forty-four thousand Seven hundred and Seventy-three Pounds Four Shillings and Five-pence, in the Total of the first Head of the Estimates for the Ordnance, be deducted, in Consideration of the Forces remaining in England, Ireland, Scotland, and the West Indies:

That Twenty-two thousand Seven hundred and Seventy Three Pounds Four Shillings and Five-pence be a reasonable Estimate for the Recruits of the Arms, as likewise for the Proportion of Spare Arms for the same:

That the Sum of Twelve thousand Pounds is reasonable to be allowed for Ammunition for the Forces for England, Scotland, the West Indies, and to be transported:

That the Sum of Eight thousand Pounds is reasonable to be allowed for Tents for the Forces in England, Scotland, and the West Indies, and to be transported:

That the Sum of Eight thousand Pounds is reasonable to be allowed for the cleaning and repairing Arms, Armour, and other Stores, according to the Estimate delivered in by the Ordnance for the Year 1692:

That the Sum of Eleven thousand Pounds, for providing a Train of Artillery and Mortars, together with Bombs, Carcases, Shot, Waggons, Harness, Working Materials, and all other Necessaries for the same, is a reasonable Sum for the said Service for the Year 1692:

That the Sum of Fifty thousand Pounds for the Charge of the proper Officers, Ministers, and Attendants, necessary for the said Train for one Year, as likewise for Providing and Keeping of Draught Horses, and other Contingencies, is a reasonable Sum for the said Service for the Year 1692:

That the Seventh Head of the Estimate for the Ordnance is not to be considered in this Committee, being a Part of the Ordinary.

Resolved, That Twelve Shillings per Ton per Month is a reasonable Rate to be allowed for Tonage for the Transport Ships:

That Two-pence Halfpenny per Pound is a reasonable Rate to be allowed for Cheese, for the Provisions for the Forces to be transported from Ireland to England, and from England to Scotland, beyond the Seas:

That Eleven Shillings a Hundred Weight is reasonable Rate to be allowed for Bread, for the Service aforesaid:

That Forty-five Shillings per Ton is a reasonable Rate to be allowed for Beer:

That Twenty Shillings per Ton is a reasonable Rate to be allowed for Cask for the said Beer:

That Six-pence a Man is a reasonable Allowance for Pumps, Buckets, Cans, Candles, &c:

That Twelve Shillings per Quarter is a reasonable Allowance for Oats, together with Sacks, for the Service aforesaid:

That Forty Shillings per Load is a reasonable Allowance for Hay, for the Service aforesaid:

That Five Shillings per Stall is a reasonable Allowance for each Horse.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That Twenty Shillings per Ton is a reasonable Allowance for Water Cask for the said Service:

That the like Abatements, upon the other Heads for transporting the Ordnance, be made proportionable to the aforesaid Resolutions for transporting the Land Forces.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That a Deduction be made out of the Pay of such of the above-mentioned Troops as shall be transported from Ireland, supposing them to be Eight Days on board; and from the Pay of such as shall be transported from England, supposing them to be Four Days on board; at the Rates of Twelve-pence per Diem for an Horse, Six-pence for a Dragoon, and Four-pence for a Foot Soldier; and for those which shall go by Long Sea from Ireland to Flanders, supposing them to be Twenty-one Days on board, at the same Rates.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Report and Resolutions be referred to the Committee of the whole House, who are to consider further of the Supplies to be granted to their Majesties, for the carrying on a vigorous War against France.

Supply.

Resolved, That this House will, To-morrow Morning at Eleven a Clock, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider further of the Supplies to be granted to their Majesties, for the carrying on a vigorous War against France.

Supply Bill; Land Tax.

Ordered, That the Bill for granting to their Majesties the Sum of One Million Six hundred Fifty-one thousand Seven hundred and Two Pounds upon Lands, . . . the carrying on a vigorous War against France, be read Tomorrow Morning.

Privateers.

Ordered, That the adjourned Debate of Thursday last, touching the bringing in a Bill to encourage Privateers against France, and for the better securing the Trade of the Nation, be resumed upon Wednesday Morning next, at Ten a Clock.

Army in Ireland.

Ordered, That the Report from the Committee to whom the Consideration of the Estimate of the Forces in Ireland for the Year 1692, is referred, be made To-morrow Morning.

London Orphans.

Resolved, That this House will, upon Saturday Morning next, at Ten a Clock, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of Ways to satisfy the Debts due to the Orphans of the City of London.

State of the Nation.

Resolved, That this House will, upon Monday Morning next, at Ten a Clock, take into further Consideration the State of the Nation.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Eight of the Clock.