Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 11, 1693-1697. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1803.
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Martis, 28 die Januarii ;
7° Gulielmi Tertii.
CLEMENT Bohen and Thomas Viroit took the Oaths appointed, in order to their Naturalization.
A Petition of the Ship-Masters, Ship-Carpenters, and other Inhabitants of Stockwith, in the Counties of Nottingham and Lincolne, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That the Bill now depending in the House, for making the River Darwent, in the County of Derby, navigable, will be an exceeding great Damage to the Petitioners, whose chief Subsistence is by Vessels carrying Lead, and other Commodities, upon the River Trent: and that the said Bill will be a greater Prejudice than Advantage to most People: And praying, That they may be heard, at the Bar of the House, against the said Bill.
Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee, to whom the said Bill is committed.
A Petition of the Mayor, Aldermen, and Burgesses, and other Inhabitants, of the Borough of Chesterfeild, in the County of Derby, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That the Bill for making the River Darwent, in the County of Derby, navigable, if it should pass, will in a great measure, ruin their Market; and put a stop to the Land-carriage of Commodities, by which many Families subsist, and pay their Rents: And praying, That they may be heard, by Counsel, to make good their Objections against the Bill.
Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee, to whom the said Bill is committed.
A Petition of the Gentry, Lead-merchants, Freeholders, Miners, and others concerned in the Trade of Lead, in the County of Derby, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That the Bill, now before the House, for making the River Darwent, in the County of Derby, . . . . will be of great Convenience and Advantage to all the Countries adjacent, by reducing the Charge of Land-Carriage of Stone, Lead, Iron, and other ponderous Commodities, which impair the Highways: That it will encourage Trade, and advance the Rents of Lands; and prejudice nobody without making them Satisfaction, That those who are employed in the Land-carriage, may be otherwise as profitably employed: And praying the Consideration of the House in the Premises.
Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee, to whom the said Bill is committed.
A Petition of several Gentlemen, Freeholders, and others, in the County Leicester, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That the Bill, now depending in the House, for making the River Darwent, in the County of Derby, navigable, if passed, will be of great Damage to the Petitioners, in abating the Price of Corn, especially Barley; out of which they are paid, and do pay their Rents: And praying to be heard, by Counsel, before the Passing of the said Bill; the same being many other ways prejudicial to the Petitioners.
A Petition of several of the Lead-merchants, Cheesemongers, and others, Traders in and about the Cities of London and Westminster, who trade into the Counties of Derby, Stafford, Warwick, and Chester, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That the making the River Darwent, in the County of Derby, navigable, will not only be a great Advantage and Convenience, to the Countries thereabouts, but a general Good to the Kingdom; for that the Petitioners, who trade in great Quantities of Lead, Iron, Cheese, and Butter, from the said Counties, could afford those Commodities at much cheaper Rates, if it were not for the great Charge of Land-carriage: And praying, That the House will take the Premises into Consideration.
Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee, to whom the Bill for making the said River navigable is committed.
Ease of Jurors.
Sir John Kay, according to Order, presented to the House a Bill for the Ease of Jurors; and better Regulating of Juries: And the same was received.
Stoughton's, &c. Estate.
An ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act for vesting the Estate late of Sir Nicholas Stoughton and Sir Lawrence Stoughton Baronets, deceased, in Trustees, to be sold, for the Payment of their Debts, and raising Portions for the Daughters of the said Sir Nicholas Stoughton, was read the Third time.
Resolved, That the said Bill, with the Amendment, do pass.
Ordered, That Mr. Whitacre do carry the Bill to the Lords, and acquaint them, That this House hath agreed to the same, with an Amendment: To which they desire their Lordships Concurrence.
Ordered, That all Committees be revived.
An ingrossed Bill, from the Lords, intituled, An Act to enable Richard Haynes Esquire to settle a Jointure on his now Wife; and to exchange Lands with the Trustees of Thomas Stevens Esquire, deceased; was read the Third time.
Resolved, That the said Bill, with the Amendments, do pass.
Ordered, That Mr. Baldwyn do carry the Bill to the Lords, and acquaint them, That this House hath agreed to the same, with several Amendments: To which they desire their Lordships Concurrence.
Ordered, That Leave be given to bring in a Bill to ascertain the Jurisdiction of Courts Baron; and regulate Proceedings in inferior Courts, in Actions under Forty Shillings: And that Mr. Manly, and Mr. Bickerstaffe do prepare, and bring in the Bill.
Ordered, That Leave be given to bring in a Bill to regulate and restrain the Proceedings in the King's Court of the Palace at Westminster, called the Marshal's Court: And that Colonel Perry and Mr. Whitacre do prepare, and bring in, the Bill.
Mr. Brotherton, according to the Order of the Day, reported from the Committee, to whom the Petition of the Shipwrights and other Workmen belonging to his Majesty's Yards at Woolwich and Deptford; and also, of Michael Calvert and John Dingle, on behalf of themselves and the rest of the Shipwrights, and other Workmen, belonging to his Majesty's Yard at Chatham, and other adjacent Places in the County of Kent; were referred; the Matter, as the same appeared to the said Committee; which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table.
Ordered, That the said Report do lie upon the Table.
Oaths of Supremacy in Ireland.
A Petition of Robert Johnson Esquire, on the behalf of himself, and other the Protestants of Ireland, was presented to the House and read; setting forth, That the Design of a Petition, presented to the House by some Irish popish Gentlemen, is, to introduce great Numbers of Irish Papists into the free Practice of the Law in Ireland; and to repeal a Statute made to prevent the Dangers that might arise from such an Encouragement: And praying to be heard against the said Petition.
Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee, to whom the Petition of Dennis Daly and Edmund Malone Esquires is referred.
Ordered, That Mr. Clarke, Mr. Colt, Mr. Sloane, Mr. Morgan, Mr. Dolben, Sir Gilbert Clark, be added to the Committee, to whom the Bill for making the River Darwent, in the County of Derby, navigable, is committed.
Ways and Means.
Resolved, That this House will, To-morrow Morning, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider further of Ways and Means for raising the Supply to be granted to his Majesty, for carrying on the War against France.
Colonel Granvill, according to the Order of the Day reported, from the Committee of Privileges and Elections, the Matter touching the Election for the Borough of Aylesbury, in the County of Bucks, as the same appeared to the Committee, and the Resolutions of the Committee thereupon; which he read in his Place: and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read; and are as follow; viz.
Upon the Petition of Simon Mayne Esquire, complaining of an undue Return of James Herbert Esquire to serve for the Borough of Aylisbury;
The Committee have examined the Merits of that Election.
That, at the Poll taken, there was,
But it was insisted on, by the Petitioner, That several Persons that were not qualified had voted for the Sitting Member; and that several Irregularities had been practised in that Election.
It was at first insisted on, by the Petitioner, That the Right of Election was in the Inhabitants paying Scot and Lot; but they could bring no Evidence to prove the Right of Election so restrained.
And the Sitting Member produced, as Witnesses,
John Higgins and Edward Cotton: Who proved, That the Usage of the said Borough, for 40 Years last past, was, That the Housekeepers, not receiving Collection, used to vote; and that none that did not live in a House of 50s. a Year paid to the Church and Poor in Aylisbury: And,
Burman, Noye, and Church: Who said, it was agreed by the Candidates, That such as had not received Collection within 12 Months should vote.
That the Petitioner's Counsel admitted, That the Usage had been so for 40 Years last past.
Mead and Dickson testified, That Mr. Dickson, who was chose a Scrutineer, did, after the Poll was over, the same Night, take a Scrutiny, and had made several Exceptions to several of the Sitting Member's Voters; but one Church, that voted for Mr. Herbert, and appeared at the Election for him, snatched away the Paper of Exceptions, because Mr. Dickson would not agree, that they should be sealed up with the Poll: But Mr. Dickson owned, That he had signed the Indenture for returning Mr. Herbert.
That then the Petitioner proceeded to disqualify several of the Sitting Member's Voters: And produced,
Henry Mills: Who said, That Charles Haywood lived in the same House with him; but did not pay Rent to him, but to his Mother, whose House it was: That Mills himself voted: So the Question was, which of them Two ought to vote for that House.
Ely Rolf said, That William Stocker took a House, but Nine Days before the Election, at 12s. a Year Rent.
Eliz. Bayly said, She knew John Hatton, and that he lived with Goldsworth:
But Wm. Spencer, being called as a Witness, on behalf of the Sitting Member, said, That Hatton's was always reckoned a distinct Tenement; and that he watched and warded.
Wm. Lee said, That Edward Edwards lived with his Father, Wm. Cowper.
But the said Spencer said, The said Edwards was a Housekeeper, and watched and warded.
That John Colson was no Housekeeper.
But Spencer said, He was a Housekeeper, and watched and warded; and his Mother had yielded up the House, to him.
That Charles Noye was no Housekeeper: But owned, He received the Toll of the Market, and was Constable, the last Year.
John Hawkes said, That John Smith was an Inmate to Samuell Stevens:
But Daniel Delafeild said, Stevens was the Inmate and Smith the Housekeeper.
Robert Dodd said, That Francis Edun was no Housekeeper:
But Delafeild said, He was.
That Samuel Higgins was admitted no good Voter.
That John Bigg was a Servant, having run out all.
But Spencer said, He was a Housekeeper.
That Thomas Bell, Richard Robinson, and Thomas Collins were admitted to be no good Voters.
William Lee said, He knew Richard Sanders, and that he was an Inmate to his Mother.
Thomas Dyke said, Gabriel White was an Inmate with his Mother:
But Spencer said, He was a Housekeeper, and watched and warded.
Ro. Holland said, Matthew Hitchindale was a Servant to his Mother: and she had all for her Life:
But Wm. Goldsinch said, Hitchindale was an Assessor with him to the Aid-Tax, and paid to Church and Poor.
Joseph Brasbridges said, That John Hewington was no Inhabitant; having taken a House, but gave no Notice according to the Statute: That he took a House about 5 l. a Year, and lived there Half a Year, and was warned out:
But Wm. Goldfinch said, He took the Reversion of a House of 6 l. a Year, for 16 Years; and paid the Duties of the Town; and went away, because the Town could not maintain his Trade.
That Robert Payton was admitted to be no good Voice.
That Richard Good was admitted no good Voice.
Thomas Oviat said, He found John Miles, John Medley John Murrell, John Bell, and John Fenfall, in the Poors Book, to have received Collection; and particularly Bell often; and all since Lady-Day 1694:
But Goldfinch said, Miles was not in the Poors Book.
That the Petitioner then endeavoured to make out several Irregularities in the said Election.
Mr. Mayne junior said, That about Four Days before the Election, Tho. Wildgoose came to him, and brought Three or Four with him, and said he would serve the Petitioner, and bring them over, if the Petitioner would consider him for the Loss of his Time; that he, the said Mr. Mayne, said, The Petitioner could not do that, but, it may be, might help him in his Trade; and that Wildgoose told him, if the Petitioner would not do it, the other Side would; and, on the Monday after, he told him, the said Mr. Mayne, He had promised Mr. Herbert his Voice:
That Thomas Ball, who voted for the Petitioner at the last Election, Three Days before this Election, had promised to vote for the Petitioner; but afterwards he told the said Mr. Mayne junior, That he had received Two threatening Letters from Sir John Packington; and said, He was sorry he could not vote for the Petitioner, but he must not ruin himself.
Susan Duncombe and Eliz. Bayly said, That Tho. Hickman asked Giles Reed to be for Mr. Herbert; upon which Reed told him, that there was 10s. due to him since the last Election; and, if Mr. Herbert did not pay it him, he would not be for him; whereupon, Hickman promised to pay him the said 10s. and that Reed voted for Mr. Herbert; but could not say, whether the 10s. was paid him.
And Susan Duncomb said, Edward Edwards voted for Mr. Herbert, because he had given him a black Pig:
But Wm. Bell said, He made a Chop for that Pig with Thomas Sheny.
Eliz. Bayly also said, That James Brandon's Wife speaking to her Husband, not to lose his Time, he told her, he was paid for it; and would have 20s. more, if he voted for Mr. Herbert:
That Richard Kempster, Friday Night before the Election, said, He had designed for Mr. Mayne; but Mrs. Piddrington had promised him a Coat; and, because her Husband had not done wearing of it, and she did not give it him, he voted for Mr. Herbert.
Richard Bates, Daniel Parry, said, That Thomas Dawny had a Messenger sent to him, that if he would come down, he should return safely: Supposes he owed Money; and that they would satisfy Goody Collyn, whose Arm was broke by him: And,
Wm Lindon said, He saw Mr. Herbert give Dawny a Guinea the Day after the Election.
Edward Lewin said, he saw Mr. Herbert give Mathew Little, that voted for him, some Money; and he put it into his Pocket without looking on it: That Mr. Herbert said nothing upon giving of it; but gave it at the WhiteHart, the Room being full of People.
Mr. Maine junior said, Little promised to vote for the Petitioner, but voted for Mr. Herbert.
John Hawkes said, John Colsill confessed, One of my Lord Carnarvon's Servants had taken away a Net from him; and that Mr. Fines, my Lord's Gentleman, told him, If he would vote for Mr. Herbert, he should be paid for it: The Net was valued at 15s.: And that Colsill gave his Vote, upon that Account, for Mr. Herbert; otherwise he designed to vote for Mr. Mayne:
But Mr. Fines, being called in by the Sitting Member, said, he knew not of any Net taken from him, nor had offered him any Money for it.
That, on behalf of the Sitting Member, was produced, against the Evidence of Duncomb and Bayly, as to Reed;
Goldfinch, Church: who testified, That they were present at the Time mentioned by Duncomb and Bayly; and that they did not hear Reed say, That he would not vote for Mr. Herbert, unless he paid him the 10s.; but, on the contrary, that he said, there was 10s. due to him for Drink drawn for Mr. Herbert, at the last Election; but, however, he would be again for him now, though he was not paid for it.
Hickman, and Reed, said to the same Effect; and denied any Promise to pay him the 10s. as testified by Duncomb and Bayly:
Ro. Mead, and Oviat: Said, That Hickman acted very much for Mr. Herbert.
Ro. Holland said, Goldfinch told the People, That what Drink they drew for Mr. Herbert, they should be paid for.
George Baldwyn said, That Zachar. Whitmill told him, He had 5s. for voting for Mr. Herbert, given him by a Person he did not know, at the White Hart Inn, used by Mr. Herbert.
Thomas Williams said, Whitmill did own, He had Money to be for Mr. Herbert; but would not tell the same till he came before the Parliament; that afterwards he confessed it to Mr. Wharton, and the next Day told it to Baldwyn; that at first he said, He had 5s. for drumming; but afterwards said, He had 5s. before for his Voice.
That, by way of Answer to which, for the Sitting Member, was produced.
Zachary Whitmill: Who said, That he had received no other 5s. of Mr. Herbert, but 5s. the Wednesday after the Election, for drumming; but he had been drinking at Pratt's House, and was in Beer; and Pratt told him, If he would confess he voted for Mr. Herbert for Bribery, he should want nothing of Gold or Silver; and named 20 l.; and Williams said, He would engage for the 20 l.: And further said, That if he did say he had 5s. for voting for Mr. Herbert, it was on Account of the 20 l. promised him:
But Thomas Williams, being produced by the Sitting Member, denied that he had said any thing about the 20 l.: And,
John Wickson said, That he was by, all the Time, that it was said the Discourse was about the 20 l.; and that he heard no such Discourse:
Ri. Heydon, and Church, said, That Whitmill, after he came from Mr. Wharton's, did say, That Prat would have hired him to say, he was bribed; and that, if he would but own he had Money to vote for Mr. Herbert, it should be 20 l. in his Way.
John Sheene said, That Charles Noye offered him 40s. to vote for Mr. Herbert, whereof 17s. he had then in his Pocket; and that he told it within Two or Three Days after to Oviat, That Noy had offered him the 40s.
And Oviat said, That Sheen had told him, That Nay had offered him 40s. as testified by Sheene.
Brasbridge said, That Charles Noy was for Mr. Herbert: and told him, They were fain to promise Mr. Herbert that if he did not carry it, it should cost him nothing.
That no answer which Evidence of Sheen, there was produced, by the Sitting Member;
Andrew Brewster, Ri. Haddon: Who said, That John Sheene had no Vote: That he had a Child born, and disabled himself to pay upon the Act of Births and Burials; and did receive Collection.
But Alexander North, Overseer of the Poor, said, That Sheen had received no Collection since Easter last; nor did know that ever he did:
Goldfinch said, That he heard Sheen answer, to one that asked him if he had received Money, that he had received nothing of any body for his Voice; but said, the Devil was in People for lying:
Wm. Lindon said, That, at the Election-day, he went to the Market-hall, and was for Mr. Mayne; and that they would let in only who they thought fit; and that the Marquis of Carmarthen came up to him, and said, He would make an Example of him, and shook his First at him. And,
Ro. Todd and John Pratt, the Two Constables, said, The Marquis of Carmarthen did threaten to ruin them, and fetch them up, if they did not return Mr. Herbert.
Wm. Lindon, Wm. Cox, said, That Harry Goodson, that was for Mr. Mayne, was made drunk by Mr. Herbert's Friends, and did not vote at all.
That for the Sitting Member was called,
Charles Noy: Who said, That there were several Persons of Quality at this Election, as was usual; and named the Marquis of Carmarthen, the Earl of Abingdon, Mr. Wharton, and Colonel Godfrey.
Wm. Church said, That Mr. Wharton, Sir Tho. Lee, and other Gentlemen, being at his House, the 14 Sept. the Fair-day; and Mr. Sommer fell into a Passion, and asked, If all there were not Friends? And if he was not, he would declare: Whereupon, he said, Sir Tho. Lee was sure of his Voice, but he would reserve his Voice as to the other: Thereupon, Mr. Wharton said, Church, sit down; we have no Need of your Voice; I bid Defiance to any Gentlemen that shall oppose us here: But Church did confess, that Mr. Wharton did tell Mr. Sommer, That was not their Business.
Charles Noy, John Higgins, said, They were Constables last Year, and chosen by the Leet; and yet were put out at the Sessions before they had served their Year, though never summoned, nor petitioned against, nor had desired to be discharged; and Two others, strong Men for Sir Thomas Lee and Mr. Mayne, made Constables:
And Burman said, Mr. Dormer was in the Chair of the Sessions.
Charles Noy and Norris Fines said, The Scrutiny was adjourned from Monday Night to Nine next Day, and then adjourned again; that, on Tuesday Evening, they met again, and Mr. Mayne's Constables withdrew themselves; that the (fn. 1) (Six] Constables went to Mr. Herbert at Eleven a Clock on Tuesday Night, and declared, That they had found him and Sir Thomas Lee elected, and that they would all sign the Return on the Morrow: That the Marquis of Carmarthen went out of Town about One a Clock, and did not return till afterwards.
That then the Sitting Member proceeded to disqualify several of the Petitioner's Voters: And called,
John Higgins: Who said, That Mr. Cowper had conveyed his House to the Use of Edward's Children, and Edwards kept him.
William Bell said, That Edward Finch was no Housekeeper, but his Father was the Housekeeper.
Goldfinch said, That Thomas Deale, Ro. Ironmonger, John Welman, received Collection:
That William Wildgoose had a Fall from a House, and did receive Collection:
That Samuell Weaver, James Frame, did receive Collection:
That he had seen Jeffery Miles his Name in the Poors Book; but could not say the Time:
That Thomas Jackson was no Housekeeper, but lived a little while with Wm. Dancer:
That Alexander Duncomb was no Housekeeper; was so Half a Year; but he brought his Wife and Child to his Mother, and she maintained him and them:
That Henry Bayly his Grandfather carried him a Bed, to make him a Voter:
That John Pratt and Wm. Symonds live both in one House, and both voted for the Petitioner:
That Edward Brown boards with John Bigg:
That John Brown's Circumstances were the same with Hewington's; he having lived at Aylisbury but about Half a Year.
John Bigg said, Edward Brown boarded with him.
Edward Cotton said, That he had inspected the Register, and finds Wm. Bowton, Tho. Wray, Ja. Jordan, to be under Age.
That the Petitioner's Counsel said, That they had Evidence to justify many of the Votes objected to by the Sitting Member; but it was much of the same Nature, as the Evidence given by the Sitting Member to justify the Votes objected to by the Petitioner: But the Petitioner's Counsel did not much insist to have them heard; nor the Committee think it very material.
That, upon the whole Matter, the Committee came to these Resolutions;
Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Right of Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of Aylisbury in the County of Bucks, is in all the Householders of the said Borough, not receiving Alms.
Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That James Herbert Esquire is duly elected a Burgess to serve in this present Parliament for the said Borough of Aylisbury.
The said Resolutions, being severally read a Second time, were, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.
State of the Nation.
The House, according to the Order of the Day, resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider further of the State of the Nation, in relation to Trade.
Mr. Speaker left the Chair.
Colonel Granvill took the Chair of the Committee.
Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.
Colonel Granvill reported from the said Committee, That they had made a further Progress in the Matter to them referred; and had come to several Resolutions; which they had directed him to report, when the House will please to receive the same.
Ordered, That the said Report be made upon Friday Morning next.
Colonel Granvill also acquainted the House, That he was directed by the said Committee to move, That they may have Leave to sit again.
Resolved, That this House will, this Day Sevennight, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House to consider further of the State of the Nation, in relation to Trade.
Resolved, That this House will, To-morrow Sevennight, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Bill for the Increase and Encouragement of Seamen.
And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine a Clock.