Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 11, 1693-1697. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1803.
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Mercurii, 17 die Februarii;
Resolved, That the Bill be committed to Mr. Hammond, Sir John Bucknall, Mr. Gwyn, Sir Wm. Lowther, Lord Coningsby, Mr. Onslow, Dr. Oxenden, Mr. Boscawen, Mr. Done, Sir Robert Burdet, Mr. Burrard, Mr. Evelyn, Mr. Mountstevens, Sir Tho. Grosvenor, Mr. Hoblyn, Mr. Harley, Mr. Whitaker, Sir Geo. Hungerford, Sir Tho. Hussey, Sir Wm. Cowper, Mr. Shakerly, Mr. Cheney, Mr. Campion, Mr. Moncton, Sir Wm. Cooper, Mr. Gray, Sir Wm. Hustler, Sir John Manwaring, Mr. Hedger, Mr. Mawdit, Mr. Price, Mr. Farrer, Mr. Morgan, Mr. Pagett, Mr. Gardner: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Five a Clock, in the Speaker's Chambers.
Lord Holles' Debts.
Mr. Edward Harley reported from the Committee, to whom the ingrossed Bill, from the Lords, intituled, An Act for the speedy Satisfying of the Debts of Francis Lord Holles, deceased, was committed, That they had examined and considered the same, and made several Amendments; which they had directed him to report to the House; and which he read in his Place; and afterward delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read; and are as follow; viz.
At the End of the Bill, add Clause A: For saving unto Carr Harvey Esquire, and Isabella Carr Harvey his Sister, all such Equity of Redemption to the Premises, in Lincolnshire, as they had before the Making of the Act.
The House being informed, That one Robert Mulkey, a Servant to Colonel Rolle, a Member of this House, hath been arrested, by one John Richmond a Bailiff, at the Suit of Thomas Cawen; and is detained in Custody; in Breach of the Privilege of this House;
Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, to make out a new Writ, for electing a Burgess to serve in this present Parliament for the Borough of Orford, in the County of Suffolk, in the room of Sir Adam Felton Baronet, deceased.
Blackwell hall Market.
Sir George Hungerford reported from the Committee, to whom the Bill to restore the Market for Woollen Cloths, in Blackwell-hall and Welch-hall, to the Clothiers, was committed, That they had made several Amendments to the Bill; which they had directed him to report to the House; and which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read.
And that Mr. Blaake, Mr. Stonehouse, Sir John Manwaring, Mr. Smith, Sir Sa. Barnardiston, be added to the said Committee: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Five a Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber.
Hay-market Paving &c.
A Petition of several of the Inhabitants in and near the Street called the Hay-market, within the Parishes of St. Martin in the Fields, and St. James, within the Liberty of Westminster, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That there is a Bill depending in the House, for repairing, paving, and regulating, the Streets called the Hay-market, within the Parishes of St. Martin in the Fields, and St. James, within the Liberty of Westminster; which Bill, the Petitioners conceive, may be very prejudicial to the Petitioners; by reason that it may induce the Persons using the said Market, which is a great Profit to the Petitioners, to find out some other Place for Sale of their Hay and Straw: And praying, That all Carts, loaden with Hay and Straw, coming to the said Market, may be Toll-free.
A Petition of the Gentlemen, Freeholders, Tradesmen, and, other Inhabitants, of the Town and Hundred of Nantwich, in the County of Chester, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That the Bill, now depending in the House, for making navigable the River Dee, in the County of Chester, will be of great Advantage not only to the Petitioners, by the easy Exportation of their Salt; but also to the general Improvement of the Trade of the whole County, for the easy Conveyance of their Cheese, and other Commodities: And praying, That the said Bill may pass into a Law.
A Petition of the Clothiers of Kinver, in the County of Stafford, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That, formerly, the Petitioners were supplied with Wool from the First Owners; but, of late Years, Persons, called Wool-broggers, do yearly engross the greatest Part of the Wool of the Kingdom, beating down the Price with the First Owner, and afterwards selling it to the Clothiers, at excessive Rates; and often mix good and bad Wool together, and sell it for the best; which brings a Disparagement upon our Woollen Manufactures, and will ruin them, and the Petitioners, if these evil Practices be not speedliy prevented: And praying the Consideration of the House in the Premises.
Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee to whom the Bill to restore the Market for Woollen Cloths, in Blackwell-hall and Welch-hall, to the Clothiers, is committed: And that they do examine the Matter thereof; and report the same, with their Opinion therein to the House.
Duties on Glass, &c.
Mr. Hammond reported from the Committee, to whom the several Petitions of the Glass-makers were referred, That they had examined the Matter thereof; the Informations in relation whereunto they had directed him to report to the House, together with their Resolution thereupon; which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was read; and is as followeth; viz.
Duties on Glass, &c.
Ananias Henzey testified, That the Bottle-houses there had stopped working ever since the Duty laid upon those Commodities; that the Workmen were brought to great Want: and that each House consumed 20 Ton of Coals weekly; and that they generally sustained 10 or 12 l. per Cent. Loss, by Breaking and Flying of Bottles.
John Judges testified, That he, for many Years, has worked at one of the greatest Bottle-houses in England; and that he and others used to have Work 44 or 45 Weeks in the Year; and that some Hundreds of Poor were kept employed about the said Works; but, . . the Discouragement the Bottle-Trade hath met with, by reason of the Duty of 12d. per Dozen, he and many others have not had any Employment these 40 Weeks; by which they are reduced to such Want, as hath forced them to pawn all they have, even to their very Beds.
William Buck: That he has been Clerk to the Glassbottle Works belonging to Captain Gutheridge, and others, these 14 Years past; and that, for Nine Years before the Duty was laid upon Glass-bottles, the said Works never stood still above 9 Weeks in any One Year; but that, since the Duty, they have worked but 26 Weeks in all; and that many of the Bottles, made in that 26 Weeks, are yet unsold, by reason of the Advance the Duty makes thereon; and that his Masters have paid the Duty for all the Bottles made in those 26 Weeks; and since that sustained 300 l. Loss, by the Breaking and Flying of those Bottles.
Captain Gutheridge: That he hath been concerned in the said Bottle-Trade for 17 Years, and found a reasonable Encouragement in carrying on the same, until the Duty laid thereon; since which, for his own Share in Partnership, he hath lost 1,000 l. and that, if the Duty be continued, he must relinquish the Trade, to prevent his own Ruin.
Francis Jackson: That with 1,000 l. worth of foreign Materials, which pay Custom to the Crown, is made 10,000 l. worth of the Glass Manufacture; and that, before the Duty, the Glass-Trade was brought to that Perfection in Goodness and Cheapness, that it had all possible Encouragement, as well from Markets Abroad as at Home; for that there has been sent 4, or 5,000 l. worth thereof yearly into Ireland; as also considerable Quantities to Holland, the East and West Indies, and to Vienna, and even to Venice itself:
That the States of Holland, observing the Difficulties the Glass-makers here labour under in the said Duties, in order to gain the Artists, over, to settle their Manufacturies there, have offered them the following Encouragements; viz.
And further testified, That the Duty on Glass-wares has so lessened the Consumption thereof, that himself and Partners were forced to lay aside their Flint and Bottleworks at Lynn, in Norfolk; where the Trade was become so considerable, that they consumed 600 Chaldrons of Coals yearly therein; and paid 30 l. per Week Wages to the poor People there, employed in and about the said Works; who now are become Burdens to the Parishes wherein they dwell:
That at this Time, there is so considerable a Stock of Bottles made, which has paid the Duty, that, with the Addition of 10,000 Dozen, which will pay 500 l. Duty to the Crown, will answer all Demands till Lady-day next; which will much lessen the Duty in the future Collection, the Duty on Bottles alone being above Two-thirds of the Duty arising upon all the Glass Manufacture; and that the Glass Manufacture cannot be managed as other Trades may, to make their Goods as Customers may have Occasion for them, by reason the Charge of putting in and out their Fires being 50 or 60 l. they must, when they begin to work, continue till they have made a great Quantity; in a great Part of which they generally lose 10 or 12 l. per Cent. by the Breaking and Flying thereof in the Warehouses; and by some Sorts of Glass, which will grow out of Fashion, they lose often 20 or 30 l. per Cent. and often lose 30 or 40 l. a Week, by Pots breaking, and Loss of Metal.
William Hall said, That the Duty has put so great a Discouragement upon the Glass Trade, that the Artists receive frequent and great Encouragements to go into Parts beyond the Seas; that several are already gone, some his own, and best, Workmen; and that the rest of his Men would have followed them before now, but that he detains them here by Play-wages, although he has no Work to employ them in; the which he doth, in hopes the said Duty will be taken off, otherwise he must be forced totally to lay down his Trade.
Mr. Baldwyn said, That in Gloucester and Newnham there are 5 Glass-houses; and not One of them have worked a Fortnight since the Duty commenced; and that what Bottles they did make in that time are not yet disposed of; by reason the great Duty laid thereon hath so lessened the Consumption of Bottles, that they are forced to lay down their Trades; whereby great Numbers of the Artists, and their Families, are reduced to so great Wants, that they are forced to apply themselves to the Parishes, in which they inhabit, for Relief, otherwise must perish: And that, notwithstanding the Year or Two past produced little or no Cyder, there was old Cyder enough in the Country to have demanded more Bottles than was made; but, by reason of the great Advance of 12d. per Dozen, makes People choose to lose the Sale of their Cyder, or sell it in Cask for little, rather than to run the Hazard of putting it into Bottles at so dear a Price; usually, their Loss being very considerable before this Advance upon Bottles, and the Breaking thereof in conveying Cyder by Land to London, and many 100 Miles otherwise.
Mr. Broome and Mr. Middleton said, That the Trade is so greatly discouraged since the Duty laid thereon, that the Consumption thereof is lessened to that Degree, that their Stocks lie dead upon their Hands: And, that notwithstanding the great Quantities of Ales that are returned from Newcastle to London, and other Parts, which used to take off great Quantities of Bottles before the Duty enhanced the Price of them, that now the said Ales are chiefly returned by Cask; that so much prevents the Demand for Bottles, that they have a Stock, that has paid the Duty, without making any more, that will serve the Markets for Six Months to come: And that, unless the Duty be taken off, they cannot any longer carry on their Works.
Robert Wood said, That the Duty laid upon Pipes has so far lessened the Consumption of them, That Twothirds of the People working in that Manufacture are totally unemployed; there using to be 5,000 Tons of Clay consumed yearly in making of Pipes; which made 7 or 800,000 Gross of Pipes, and employed 2,000 People, whose Children must be fed by their Labour, besides some Hundreds of People that depend on the Employment, as Diggers, Carters, Boatmen, and Seamen, employed, as well by the Coals as the Clay: That each Ton of Clay, which, in the First Cost, is but 2s. comes, by manufacturing in London, and 20 Miles round, before the Goods made thereof are fit for Use, to 10 l. 10s.: and, before the Duty, there was, in that Distance, manufactured about 2,000 Ton:
That, before the Duty of 18d. per Gross, which is 150 l. per Cent. laid upon all glazed Pipes, those very Pipes were sold for 5d. 6d. and 7d. per Gross; and those unglazed, which were sold for 12d. now pay 12d. Duty: Which Duty upon glazed Wares has, in a great measure, prevented the making any of that Commodity in the Country:
That their Sea-Trade is abundantly lessened, and in Danger of being wholly lost; by reason, that those that were their Customers correspond with Holland and Ireland; and can be furnished there cheaper, and with less Trouble.
Nathaniell Parker said, That it has been a Work of great Charge and Difficulty to settle the Stone Manufacture in this Kingdom; which now will be destroyed, if the Duty be continued that is now laid thereupon: And saith, That he hath no Employment for his Workmen; that the Goods already made remain in his and the Potmaker's Hands; that they cannot sell so much in the Whole as will serve to pay the Workmen they used to employ; that the Pot-makers are utterly unable to carry on their Trade.
Richard Crew said, That this Duty lays 10 l. per Cent. upon the White Earthen Manufacture; which has occasioned the loss of this Trade; not having had any Work these 10 Weeks past; and, for want of a Sale of their Stocks, the Masters are not able to pay their Workmen the Wages they owe them: That he is a Journeyman, and knows that the Goods which he, with the rest of his Fellow-Servants, have made, remain on his Master's Hands, and cannot be disposed of: That the Manufacture is at a stand, and will be entirely destroyed.
Jonathan Chilwell: That there has been no Work at Foxhall for 7 Weeks past; nor ever expect any more there, if the Duty be continued; it being a very poor Manufacture, and not able to answer the same: That the Pot-makers could never profit 10 l. per Cent. heretofore; for that, if they had exceeded their wonted Prices, other Vessels, of Pewter, Tin, &c. would have been used, rather than Earthen-Pots; because of their being very liable to break: That, the Duty now amounting to 10 l. per Cent. the Trade is fallen; for the Journeymen have not earned so much by 300 l. this Year, as they used to do in other Years, at this One Pot-house.
Duties on Glass, &c.
John Barlow: That there has been no Work at Putney in the said Trade for great Part of the Winter; and the Warehouses are full of the Commodity; for which the King's Duty is paid; without any Demands of the said Goods by Customers: That he knows the said Trade has not been any ways so much impeded, or stood still, for 23 Years past, as since the Commencement of the Duty laid thereupon: That, if the Duty be continued, the Trade cannot be revived.
And all add, That, by the best Account they can get, the whole Duty does not amount to 2,000 l. per Ann.: And verily believe their Calculation is true; but refer themselves to the Commissioners Books of Accounts; which they prayed might be produced: That they believed, the Charge of collecting will be found to amount to a greater Sum; which they likewise prayed the Commissioners might discover; to the end it might appear, how little the clear Product is to his Majesty.
William Knight and John Dewilder, Master Pot-makers, declared, Their Work-houses are at a stand; and that they are unable to pay their Journeymen, and carry on their Trade, because of the said Duty; their Goods, already made, remaining on their Hands.
From whence the Petitioners observe, That, in 12 Months, the Duty cannot amount to more than 4,359 l.: And, considering the Four first Months were in the Summer, and that the Pot-makers do not make much in the Winter, and that his Majesty must be at Charge in collecting the said Duty, the Petitioners insisted, there could not be 2,000 l. per Ann. resting to the King: And alleged, That there are upwards of 3,000 Persons depending on the Manufacture; and many of them reduced to extreme Want and Poverty; and, if the Duty be continued, the Manufacture of Stone and Earthen-ware will be utterly ruined and destroyed.
Mr. Dalby Thomas, One of the Commissioners appointed for receiving the said Duties upon Glass, Stone, Earthen Wares, and Tobacco-pipes, being asked, What, in his Opinion, the Duties would amount to? said, That, if this Honourable House thinks fit to give Leave to have it farmed, there are Persons ready to give for the Duty on Glass-wares, 20,000 l. per Ann.; and for the other Duties on Stone, Earthen Wares, and Tobacco-pipes, 30,000 l. per Ann.:
Mr. Thomas further said, That the Stop of Trade is, in Expectation of the Duty being taken off; but if it be continued, the Houses will proceed in their Work, and the Kingdom be supplied with their Commodities: And that the Reason of the Glass-mens underselling their Commodities is, to ruin one another: And that they will not sell great Quantities of Glass to the Retailers, though tendered ready Money; but only in small Parcels:
Mr. Jackson said, Mr. Abthorp, and other Retailers, insisted upon such Rebates that he could not sell at; and that he had lost 1,000 l. by his Trade the last Year: And, inasmuch as, if the Duty be continued, he must give over his Trade, hoped he might sell what Stock he had left at what Prices he could, for his Advantage.
Then Mr. Dalby Thomas, the Commissioner, delivered in to the Committee, pursuant to their Order, an Account of the Produce of the Glass Duty, in the several Quarters, since the Commencement thereof; as also Abstracts thereof; and of the other Duties on Earthen-wares and Tobacco-pipes: Whereby the net produce of the same are as follow; viz.
Duties on Glass, &c.
Which said Sum of 20,333 l. 13s. 7d.¾ will be much reduced, by the Deductions to be allowed for Debentures at Bristol, Newcastle, and Shields, upon the Exportation of the said Manufactures from those Parts, beyond what is allowed by the Commissioners Accounts; as also, for Glass already made, and for which the Duty hath been paid; whereof a considerable Part will be exported, and the Remainder supply the Consumption at home.
Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the several Duties laid upon Glass, Stone, Earthen Wares, and Tobacco-pipes, bring in but little Advantage to the King, and are grievous to those concerned in the several Manufactures; and that, if the said Duties are continued, the said Manufactures will be in Danger of being lost to this Kingdom.
Leave of Absence.
Privilege—Publication of Proceedings.
Ordered, That John Dyer, News-Letter-Writer, for undertaking in his News-Letter to give an Account of the Proceedings of this House, be taken into the Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House.
Sir Thomas Littleton, according to the Order of the Day, reported, from the Committee of the whole House, to whom it was referred to consider further of the Supply, for raising the 840,000 l. Deficiency of the Money granted to his Majesty the last Session of Parliament, the Resolutions of the said Committee; which they had directed him to report to the House; and which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read; and are as follow; viz.
Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That, for raising the Sum of 840,000 l. charged upon the Duties laid upon Salt, and upon Coals, and Culm, and Tonage of Ships, taken away the last Session of Parliament, for which the Provision then made has proved defective, a Duty be laid upon Leather.
And the Question being put, That the House do agree with the Committee in the said Resolution, That, for raising the Sum of 840,000 l. charged upon the Duties laid upon Salt, and upon Coals, and Culm, and Tonage of Ships, taken away the last Session of Parliament, for which the Provision then made has proved defective, a Duty be laid upon Leather;
|Tellers for the Yeas,||
Sir Hen. Colt:
|Tellers for the Noes,||
Supply Bill; Duties on Paper, &c.
The Lord Coningsby, according to Order, reported, from the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill for granting to his Majesty several Duties upon Paper, Vellom, and other Things, to encourage the Bringing in of Plate, and hammered Money, to be coined; and for other the Purposes therein mentioned; was committed; the Amendments, made by the Committee, to the said Bill; which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were once read throughout; and then a Second time, one by one; and, upon the Question severally put upon several of them, agreed unto by the House.
|Tellers for the Yeas,||
|Tellers for the Noes,||
Sir Tho. Travell,
Another Clause being offered to be added to the Bill, That the Patentees for making white Writing-paper in Ireland may export from Wales, and the Northern Counties of England, into Ireland, any Rags, and other Materials, for making such Paper; notwithstanding any thing in the Act of 2° Gul' & Mariæ to the contrary;