House of Commons Journal Volume 12: 18 May 1698

Mercurii, 18 die Maii;

Decimo Gulielmi.

Prayers.

Committees.

ORDERED, That all Committees be revived.

Cleansing Rivers, &c.

Sir John Wolstenholm reported from the Committee, to whom the Bill to encourage the Cleansing of Ports, Harbours, Roads, Bars, and Rivers, which may be made more navigable, of all such Obstructions as prejudice the Navigation thereof was committed, That they had considered the same, and the Petitions to them referred; and had made several Amendments to the Bill; which they had directed him to report to the House; which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were once read throughout; and then a Second time, one by one; and, upon the Question severally put thereupon, several of them agreed unto by the House.

Clause B being read a Second time, That the sole Use of the Inventions of Captain John Poyntz, whereof he had the sole Exercise granted to him, by Letters Patents, bearing Date the 27th of April, in the Fifth of William and Mary, for scouring Rivers, Roads, Harbours, Chanels, and Mill-dams, that are filled up with Mud, may be continued to him, for the Term of Four Years, next, after the Expiration of the said Letters Patents.

And the Question being put, That the House do agree with the Committee in the said Amendment;

It passed in the Negative.

A Clause was offered, to be added to the Bill, That nothing in the said Bill contained shall extend to prejudice the Right of the Right Honourable Anthony Earl of Kent, his Heirs, Tenants, or Assigns, to his Weir, or Lock, upon the River Wye or his Forge or Iron-work,... in an Act of Parliament, made in the Seventh and Eighth Year of his Majesty's Reign, for making navigable the River Wye and Lugg, in the County of Hereford:

And the same was once read;

And the Question being put, That the Clause be read a Second time;

It passed in the Negative.

Then a Motion being made, and the Question being put, That the Bill, with the Amendments, be ingrossed;

It passed in the Negative.

Preventing of Gaming.

Ordered, That Mr. Phillips, Sir Robert Clayton, Mr. Pocklington, Mr. Mountstevens, Sir John Philips, Mr. Vaughan, Mr. Lampton, Mr. Sandford, Mr. Colt, Colonel King, Mr. Freeman, Mr. Farrer, be added to the Committee, to whom the Bill to prevent Gaming is committed.

Woollen Manufacture.

Sir Rowland Gwyn reported from the Committee, to whom the Consideration of the several Petitions of the Dyers, Setters, Callenders, Tillet-pressers, and Packers, of the Cities of London, Norwich, and Coventry, were referred, the Matter, as it appeared to the said Committee, and the Resolutions of the Committee thereupon; which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read; and are as follow; viz.

That the Petitioners, appearing, alleged, That the Manufactures of Perpetuanas, and the rest of the new Drapery, has, for some Years past, been transferred into foreign Countries; where, by the Encouragement given to our English Artists, and by their having the Commodities proper for Dyeing, upon a Drawback of the Duties thereupon, from England, they are able to carry on their said Manufacture, and undersell our English Drapery, in Markets abroad; to the great Detriment, Loss, and Ruin, of some Thousands of Families here in England, who heretofore received a comfortable Subsistence, from a Dependency they had from, and the Employment they had in, the said Manufactures; which are now, for the most part sent out white, and unmanufactured, to foreign Parts.

To prove which;

Mr. John Davis attested, That great Numbers of Cloths and Serges are exported white to Holland and Hamburgh, to be manufactured there:

That 6 or 8,000 Perpetuanas, Serges, and other Drapery, are made weekly at Exeter; whereof not above 1 or 2,000 are dyed in England, the rest being sent out unmanufactured abroad:

That, about 27 Years ago, there was none of the said Commodities exported white, but those that were worn so abroad; and that Mr. Delanoy alone, who was his Master, commonly dyed 16 or 18,000 Perpetuanas in a Year:

But that now there are 4 or 500 Pieces exported white, and unmanufactured, to one Piece that is manufactured here at home; whereby England loses 8s. for every Piece sent out unmanufactured: That Bow Dyes, and other fine Colours, they yield as much Profit to the Manufacturers, as the Value of the Goods themselves:

That the Trade of exporting "these Stuffs white; and unmanufactured, did first begin at Exeter.

Mr. Bayly said, That, he being in Holland, in the Year 1674, the Dutch, to encourage and employ their own People, in perfecting the Manufacture of our Drapery, made an Order, That none of the said Drapery should be imported there fully manufactured from England:

That, at his Return to England, he dyed Twenty times the Quantity of the said Commodities, as he does now:

That the Hollanders have their Logwood and Alum from hence, cheaper than our Dyers at home, by reason of the Drawback thereupon:

That they have Indigo, Woad, Cochineal, Copperas, Redwood, and Saunders, from hence, in great Quantities; but they have those Commodities also from foreign Parts:

That the Trade for Dyeing in London was about Twelve Years since, Ten times better than now it is, notwithstanding we dye better than they can abroad:

That this Decay of the Trade arises, in great measure, from the Dutch prohibiting the said Commodities to be imported into their Country fully manufactured:

As also, That the African Company, and other Patentees, have Monopolies of several Commodities proper for the Dyeing Trade, as Logwood, Alum; and Redwood; which was formerly sold for 24 l. a Tun, and now is sold at 70 l.; whereby the Dutch are able to manufacture our said Commodities cheaper there, than our own Subjects can at home:

That every Piece of our said Commodities manufactured abroad, is a Loss of 7s. or 8s. to this Nation, in our common Colours; but in grain Colours, the Loss is, the Value of the Commodity itself; besides the Loss of the Customs of the Goods that would be used therein here; and also the Discouragement of the Growth and Making of Woad, Weld, Alum, and Copperas, used in the said Dyeing-Trade, and which are the Product of England; which are engrossed by several Persons; and Weld, which was sold for 4 l. is now 10 l. or 12 l. per Load.

Thomas Applebury said, That, 20 Years ago, there was but one Presser at Hamborough, but that now there are 40; and they employ Two Sets of Men, one by Day, the other by Night, in the said Trade:

That Mr. Banks, a Merchant in London, did, some Years since, pay 3,800 l. a year for dyeing our said Goods here; and now the Wages of the Men employed by him does not amount to 50 l. a Year, though he has not left off his Trade:

That he was One of Three that dyed his Cloths; and used to receive 3,000 l. a Year from him, for that Work.

Mr. Stratford, a Merchant, said, That, about Twenty Years ago, where he used to send abroad One Bale of white Goods, he sent out 100 Bales manufactured; but now sends out 100 Bales of white, to one manufactured:

That Foreigners have not hitherto attained to any great Skill in making our Draperies; and cannot make them at all, without the English or Irish Wool; and therefore presumes, it would be more easy and advantageous to prevent our Draperies going out white, by gradually laying Impositions thereon, than totally prohibiting the same; lest a total Prohibition might hazard a Stop to our Trade abroad:

That 20,000 Pieces of fine Ell-broads and Perpetuanas have been sent white to Hamburgh:

That they cannot be supplied with these Goods, but from Ireland; nor can they make any considerable Quantities abroad, but with English or Irish Wool.

That there are 100 Packs, sent from Yorkshire white, for One fully manufactured:

And that the Dutch send our Goods, when they have fully manufactured them, into Turkey, Russia, and up the Rhine:

That the Reason of the Foreigners having gotten the Dyeing-Trade from England, arises from the Encouragement they gave to their own Artificers therein.

Mr. Clerk said, That, about 40 Years since, he lived at Hamburgh for 20 Years together; when he observed there were not above 100 Pieces of new Drapery imported white yearly; and those were pressed and tilletted, which cost as much as the rest of the Charge for manufacturing them; but that there was usually imported 6,000 Pieces in a Year there, that were fully manufactured in England; and now the said Commodities are sent thither, and to Holland, raw from the Mills:

That he has paid 1,800 l. a Year for manufacturing the said Commodities, and now does not pay 100 l. a Year; and he apprehends, the Reason of such Decay in the Trade proceeds from the Admittance of Foreigners into the Hamburgh Company:

That there are not 5 Bales of manufactured Goods sent in a Year to Hamburgh; and they are totally prohibited in Holland.

Mr. Butler said, That he has been in Flanders, and the Low Countries, and disposed of great Quantities of our Western Serges there: and knows they cannot make any of those Goods there comparable to ours; and that, if a moderate Duty was laid upon them exported white, it will not prejudice Trade.

John Williams said, That he has dealt in the said Manufactures these 40 Years; and knows, that there never was any Quantities of the said Goods made in foreign Parts.

That, upon the whole Matter, the Committee came to the Resolutions following; viz.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the great Duties laid upon the Materials used in Dyeing, imported into England, and the Drawback allowed upon the Exportation of the same, have been a great Encouragement to the Exportation of several Sorts of our Woollen Manufactures white, or not fully manufactured.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That unless some Way be found to take off the said Duties, the Manufacture of dyeing Woollen Goods exported will, in time, be totally lost to England.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That a Drawback be allowed upon the Exportation of all Sorts of our Woollen Manufacture, in proportion to the Duties laid upon the Materials used in the dyeing the same; or a Bounty be given upon the Exportation of all Woollen dyed Goods, fully manufactured.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Duties laid upon our Woollen Manufactures exported, are a great Discouragement to the Exportation of the same; and gives our Neighbours an Opportunity to undersell us in foreign Markets.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Aulnage-Duty laid upon the Woollen Manufacture, is a great Discouragement to the same.

The said Resolutions, being severally read a Second time, were, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

Ordered, That a Bill, or Bills, be brought in upon the said Resolutions: And that Sir Rowland Gwyn, Mr. Clarke, Mr. Morris, and Mr. Bohun, do prepare, and bring in, the Bill.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Mr. Morgan have Leave to go into the Country, upon extraordinary Occasions.

Imposition on Grants.

A Petition of Sir Cyrill Wich was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That the Petitioner, having bought Part of the Estate of Mr. Heveningham, which was, at the Restoration of King Charles the Second, forfeited, but afterwards restored, is fearful that he may fall under the general Words of the Act, now depending, for granting an Aid to his Majesty, by an Imposition upon beneficial Grants: And praying to be indemnified, by such Ways as to the House shall seem meet.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee of the whole House, to whom the said Bill is committed.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Sir Edward Norris have Leave to go into the Country, upon extraordinary Occasions.

Lymmington Writ.

Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, to make out a new Writ, for the electing a Burgess to serve in this present Parliament for the Borough of Lymmington, in the County of Southampton, in the room of John Burrard Esquire, deceased.

Suppressing Profaneness, &c.

A Motion being made, and the Question being put, That the Order of the Day, for taking into Consideration the Amendments, made by the Lords, to the Bill, intituled, An Act for the more effectual Suppressing of Blasphemy and Profaneness, be read;

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.

So it was resolved in the Affirmative.

The Order was read:

And the said Amendments, being severally read, are as follow: viz.

Skin 1. L. 13, 14, leave out "having been educated in, or at any time having made Profession of, the Christian Religion."

L. 28, after "Ecclesiastical," leave out "or;" and, after "Civil," add "or Military."

Skin 2. L. 5, after "Office," add Civil or Mili"tary."

The First Amendment being read a Second time;

And the Question being put, That the House do agree with the Lords in the said Amendment;

It passed in the Negative.

Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons, to be offered, at a Conference with the Lords, for disagreeing to the said Amendment:

And it is referred to Lord Conningsby, Sir Christopher Musgrove, Mr. Norris, Sir John Philips, Sir Thomas Littleton, Lord Cutts, Sir Wm. St. Quintin, Dr. Oxenden, Lord Pawlett, Mr. Jeffryes, Mr. Lowndes, Lord Ashly, Sir Robert Rich, Mr. Monckton, Sir Henry Celt, Mr. Colt, Sir Joseph Tyly, Mr. Smith, Mr. Egerton, Mr. Sloan, Mr. Boyle, Mr. Dolben; or any Five of them: And they are to meet at Five a Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber.

The other Amendments, being severally read a Second time, were, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

Duties on on Glass, &c.

Ordered, That the Report from the Committee, to whom the Petitions touching the Duties upon Glass and Earthen-wares, and Tobacco-pipes, are referred, be made upon Saturday Morning next.

Ways and Means.

The House, according to Order, resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider further of Ways and Means for raising the Supply granted to his Majesty.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Sir Tho. Littleton took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Sir Thomas Littleton reported from the said Committee, That they had come to several Resolutions; which they had directed him to report, when the House will please to receive the same.

Ordered, That the said Report be made To-morrow Morning.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine a Clock.