House of Commons Journal Volume 12: 3 May 1699

Mercurii, 3 die Maii;

Undecimo Gulielmi 3tii.

Prayers.

Legg's Nat.

THE House, according to Order, took into Consideration the Report of the Conference with the Lords, upon Monday, touching the Amendments, made by the Lords, to the Bill, intituled, An Act to naturalize Richard Legg, and others:

And the said Report being read; and also the First Amendment;

And the Question being put, That the House do insist upon their Disagreement with the Lords in the said Amendment;

It passed in the Negative.

The next Amendment, made by the Lords, being read;

And the Question being put, That the House do insist upon their Disagreement with the Lords to the said Amendment;

It passed in the Negative.

The next Amendment, made by the Lords, being read;

And the Question being put, That the House do insist upon their Disagreement with the Lords, to the said Amendment;

It passed in the Negative.

The next Amendment, made by the Lords, being read;

And the Question being put, That the House do insist upon their Disagreement with the Lords, to the said Amendment;

It passed in the Negative.

Ordered, That Mr. Lowther do carry the Bill to the Lords, and acquaint them, That this House doth not insist upon their disagreeing to the said Amendments.

Apprehending Felons.

The House took into Consideration the Amendment, made by the Lords, to the Bill, intituled, An Act for the better Apprehending, Prosecuting, and Punishing, of Felons, that commit Burglary, House-breaking, or Robbery in Shops, Warehouses, Coach-houses, or Stables; or that steal Horses;

And the same, being twice read, was, upon the Question put thereupon, agreed unto by the House; and is as followeth; viz.

4 Pr. 13 L. after "Cheek," add "nearest the Nose; which Punishment shall be inflicted in open Court, in the Presence of the Judge; who is hereby directed and required to see the same strictly and effectually executed."

Ordered, That Mr. Brotherton do carry the Bill to the Lords, and acquaint them, That this House hath agreed to the said Amendment.

Collier's, &c. Nat.

An ingrossed Bill, from the Lords, intituled, An Act for naturalizing Sir David Collier, Isaac la Mellioniere, Peter de Belcastel, and William Rejatore, was read the Third time.

And an Amendment was proposed to be made to the Amendment made by the Committee, to whom the said Bill was committed, by leaving out "Paris:"

And the same was, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto . . the House.

Resolved, That the Bill, with the Amendments, do pass.

Ordered, That the Lord Cornbury do carry the Bill to the Lords, and acquaint them, That this House hath agreed to the Bill, with some Amendments: To which they desire their Lordships Concurrence.

Disbanded Soldiers.

Mr. Bertie reported from the Committee, to whom the Petition of Andrew Cragg, and others, the Soldiers of the Earl of Macclesfield's Regiment, was referred, the Matter, as it appeared to the said Committee; which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was read; and is as followeth; viz.

That the Petitioners urged, That they were disbanded; and that their Horses, Accoutrements, and Cloaths, were taken from them; and that they could not obtain Discharges, or Passes, from their Officers:

That, to answer this, the Officers owned, That they took from them their Horses, Cloaths, and Accoutrements; but said, They, being Foreigners, were disbanded the 25th of March, according to the late Act of Parliament: That the Regiment was ordered to attend his Majesty to Newmarket, within Four Days afterwards; so were forced to take their Cloaths for others who were mounted in their Place, in order to their Attendance on his Majesty: That their Horses were the King's; so that they could not part with them from the Regiment, without his Majesty's Order: And further, That each Trooper voluntarily subscribed to an Agreement for deducting One Peny per Diem out of their Subsistence, to keep the Troop in good Horses; which One Peny per Diem was repaid them by all the Officers, but the Major:

That it was further insisted on by the Officers, That they received One Month's Pay in Tallies, which bore a Discount of Four Shillings and Four-pence per Pound, out of which they might have deducted proportionably from every Trooper's Pay; but, in regard they were Foreigners, every Captain, except the Major, bore the Loss themselves, and paid the Troopers their full Subsistence.

That the Lieutenant-Colonel produced a Receipt from his Men for their full Subsistence; in which they owned they were satisfied, and had no Complaints to make.

That the Agent produced another Discharge, in full of all Demands, signed by those disbanded out of Lord Mohun's Troop:

The Major insisted, That the One Peny per Day was a voluntary Subscription; that it was to be employed in recruiting the Horses for the Troops, but with the Consent of the Colonel, and respective Captains; and that the Loss on Tallies ought to be bore proportionably by each Trooper: That he was willing to account with them, and pay them what was their Due; that he had laid out more Money for Horses than the One Peny per Diem came to; that he had offered them, That if they would discharge him, that he would pay them what was their Due, and give each Man Seven Pounds; but he (fn. 1) [supposed they] conceived they had a Right to their Horses; and therefore would not agree to it, but did petition the House against him.

And that, upon further Examination, it did not appear, that any were refused Discharges, Recommendations, or Passes, as alleged in the Petition; but, on the contrary, that Phillips, a Servant of my Lord Macclesfield, by his Lordship's Order, acquainted them, That those who were Tradesmen, and willing to work at their Trades, should have Certificates from his Lordship; and those that were willing to go beyond Sea should have Passes; that his Lordship was willing to do for them what Service was in his Power; but they answered, They would have their Horses, or else they would petition the Parliament.

Claims for Prizes.

The Lord Cornbury reported, from the Committee, to whom the Petition of John Reilly, and others, relating to Captain Caldwell, was referred, the Matter, as it appeared to the said Committee, and the Resolution of the Committee thereupon; which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was read; and is as followeth; viz.

That as to the Regularity of the Petition, it appeared;

That the Petitioner John Stanton was a Mariner of the Anglesea; who produced a Letter of Attorney, executed by several of the said Ship's Company, enabling him to demand, and recover, their Share of all PrizeMoney as should any-ways belong to them:

That James Rogers, mentioned as a Petitioner, signed the said Letter of Attorney; and John Stanton signed the Petition in Rogers' Name, after he was gone to Sea, by the Advice of the Petitioner John Reilly, who acts as a Solicitor for the Seamen of the Anglesea.

John Reilly said, That he signed the Petition by virtue of a Letter of Attorney to him, made by divers of the said Ship's Company, to impower him to recover their Share of a Prize taken by Captain Caldwell; which Letter of Attorney was vacated upon granting the aforesaid Letter of Attorney to Stanton; but was in Force at the time of his signing the Petition:

That in the Letter of Attorney to Stanton, the Seamen covenant to allow Stanton 4s. in the Pound, for all Monies that he shall recover of Captain Caldwell, as their Share of Prizes:

And Reilly owned, That he was to have 5s. in the Pound; and that it had cost him 40 l. to prosecute for the Seamen.

That the Committee observing the said Petition was signed by Reilly and Stanton; by virtue of the said Letter of Attorney only, and by Stanton in Rogers his Name, without mentioning that it was in behalf of the said Ship's Company:

Whereupon, the Committee came to the Resolution following; viz.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Petitioners, having no Right of their own, but being Persons employed by virtue of Letters of Attorney, with a Reward of Four and Five Shillings in the Pound, to prosecute the said Captain, that the Petition is groundless and vexatious.

The said Resolution being read a Second time;

Resolved, That the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution, That the Petitioners, having no Right of their own, but being Persons employed by virtue of Letters of Attorney, with a Reward of Four and Five Shillings in the Pound, to prosecute the said Captain, that the Petition is groundless and vexatious.

Prosecutions on Highway Act.

Mr. Yates reported from the Committee, to whom the Petition of the Carriers and Waggoners travelling several Roads of this Kingdom was referred, the Matter, as it appeared to the said Committee, and the Resolutions of the Committee thereupon; which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read; and are as follow; viz.

That the Petitioners set forth, That, by the late Act, intituled, An Act for the better amending and repairing the Highways, and Explanation of the Laws relating thereunto; by which Act all Carriers and Waggoners are enjoined to draw with double Shafts, or a Poll between their Wheel-Horses:

And that, upon Trial and Experiment thereof, they have found it impossible to travel the narrow Roads, Passes of Streets, and Gateways of Inns, for that they are not broad enough to contain the same:

And complain, That one John Littlehales, and other Informers, since the Passing of the said recited Act, as knowing it impossible for the Petitioners to drive pursuant thereto, have severely prosecuted the Petitioners, by seizing whole Sets of their Horses, which has cost them great Sums to redeem; and the Informers have, from time to time, extorted Money from them, which they have been forced to pay, to prevent their Horses being so seized:

And that, to prove these Allegations, the Petitioners produced,

Charles Turner, a Wiltshire Carrier: Who said, That it is impossible that the late Act can be complied with, to go with double Shafts; and that it kills their Horses in narrow or deep Ways; and that few Inns in London can receive their Waggons with double Shafts, or a Pole; and that double Shafts and Poles are equally destructive of their Cattle:

That John Littlehales, and others, have often prosecuted the Petitioners, and took Monies of them by way of Composition.

Thomas Norris said, That he paid to William Hull, Brother-in-law to Littlehales, and also an Informer, 4 l. at one time, and 6 l. at another, he pretending Five Warrants against him.

Richard Nixon said, That, about January was Twelve Months, Littlehales came to him, with a Warrant, and took his Master's Horses, and he was forced to pay 4 l. for their Redemption; and Littlehales promised him, that if he would pay 5 l. more, he should travel the Roads unmolested for the Space of Three Months.

Matthew Lancaster said, That, for Two or Three Years last past, be paid to Littlehales 4 l. per Annum, as a Composition; and 5 l. more for the last Year, to exempt him from Sixteen Warrants, he pretended he had against him:

And says, That he had attempted to travel with a Waggon that had a Pole, and spoiled Two Horses thereby in travelling but Fifteen Miles, and was forced to leave his Waggon by the Way.

Henry Sledhall, Innkeeper, said, That, the 6th of March last, Two Waggoners, that were his Customers, as they were driving upon the Road, had Five of their Horses seized, together with a Saddle-Horse the Man rid upon, and another led Horse, by William Hull, and others, by Force; and they got them afterwards by replevying them.

Peter Southgate said, That he had paid Littlehales, within Three Years last past, 30 l. he pretending to have many Warrants against him; and that Two other Persons paid him, each of them, 5 l.; and upon that Account were permitted to travel quietly for Three Months.

Mr. Bayly, Book-keeper, said, That Mr. Hull declared to him, that Littlehales and be were parted: And said, That he saw one Cooke, on behalf of himself, and one Suggett, another Carrier, pay to Hull 40 s.; and that he, by Cook's Order, paid Hull 6 l. by a Note; which Hull afterwards acknowleged to have received.

Mr. Norris, Book-keeper, said, That Hull brought Five Warrants against one Guest of Stampford; and he, as Book-keeper, paid, on behalf of Guest, 10 l. to one Wray of Clerkenwell, and one Nutt of Islington, Two Constables.

William Hull, upon his Examination, said, That the Horses were taken according to Law; and that he was advised a Replevin was unlawful; and that the Horses of the Two Waggons he seized belonged to Basses and Wilkinson.

And further acknowleged, That he and Littlehales were Partners till about Five Months since; and that he received 6 l. of Baily, which he borrowed of him; and Baily afterwards gave it to him, to buy a Horse, to ride about, to prosecute another Waggoner:

That John Littlehales was summoned to attend the Committee; but never appeared; and about Three Years since was ordered into Custody by this House, for Impositions upon the Waggoners, and ill Practices of this Nature; and was also ordered to be prosecuted by the Attorney-General.

And that, upon the whole Matter, the Committee came to the following Resolutions; viz.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Petitioners have fully proved the Allegations of their Petition.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That that Part of the Act, made in the 7th and 8th Years of his present Majesty's Reign, intituled, An Act for the better amending and repairing the Highways, and Explanation of the Laws relating thereunto, which enjoins all travelling Waggons, Wains, Carts, and Carriages, to be drawn with a Pole between the WheelHorses, or with double Shafts, has been found impracticable in most Roads of this Kingdom.

The first Resolution being read a Second time;

Resolved, That the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution, That the Petitioners have fully proved the Allegations of their Petition.

The Second Resolution being read a Second time;

An Amendment was proposed to be made therein, by leaving out "impracticable," and inserting "inconvenient" in the stead thereof:

And the same was, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

Resolved, That the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution, so amended, That that Part of the Act, made in the 7th and 8th Years of his present Majesty's Reign, intituled, An Act for the better amending and repairing the Highways, and Explanation of the Laws relating thereunto, which enjoins all Travelling Waggons, Wains, Carts, and Carriages, to be drawn with a Pole between the Wheel-Horses, or with double Shafts, has been found inconvenient in most Roads of this Kingdom.

Ordered, That a Bill be brought in to explain the said Act; and particularly, as to the going with a Pole, and double Shafts: And that Mr. Yates do prepare, and bring in, the Bill.

It appearing to this House, by the said Report, That John Littlehales and William Hull have been guilty of exacting great Sums of Money from Waggoners, and other corrupt Practices, upon Pretence of Informations and Prosecutions upon the said Act;

Ordered, That the said John Littlehales and William Hull be, for the said Offences, taken into Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House.

Ordered, That Mr. Attorney-General do prosecute the said John Littlehales and William Hull for the said Offences.

Supply Bill; Duty on Paper, &c.

The House, according to Order, proceeded to take into Consideration the Report of the Message Yesterday from the Lords, touching the Bill, intituled, An Act for laying a Duty upon Paper, Parchment, Vellom, and Pasteboard, for the Purposes therein mentioned:

And the Amendment, made by the Lords, to the said Bill, being read, is as followeth; viz.

* * * *

And the Question being put, That the House do agree with the Lords in the said Amendment;

It passed in the Negative, Nemine contradicente.

Ordered, That a Conference be desired with the Lords upon the Subject-matter of the said Amendment.

Ordered, That a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons to be offered at the said Conference: And that they do withdraw into the Speaker's Chamber, to draw up the said Reasons:

And it is referred to Mr. Harley, Sir John Bolls, Mr. Harcourt, Mr. Cowper, Sir Godfrey Copley, Mr. Lowndes, Mr. Boyle, Sir Thomas Wagstaffe, Mr. Eyres, Sir Abs. Danby, Mr. Smith, Mr. St. John, Mr. Hays, Sir Barth. Shower, Lord Conningsby, Mr. Sloane, Mr. Bridges, Mr. Cooke, Marquiss of Hartington, Lord Cornbury, Mr. Brotherton; or any Three of them.

Supply Bill; Duties on Sweets.

An ingrossed Bill for laying further Duties upon Sweets; and for lessening and settling the Duties, as well upon Vinegar, as upon low Wines drawn from certain Materials, and the Duties upon Brandy imported; and for the more easy raising the Duties upon Leather; and for Charging of Cinders; was read the Third time.

And several Amendments were made thereunto by the House; and the Bill amended at the Table accordingly.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be, An Act for laying further Duties upon Sweets; and for lessening and settling the Duties, as well upon Vinegar, as upon certain low Wines, and Whale-Fins, and the Duties upon Brandy imported; and for the more easy raising the Duties upon Leather: and for Charging of Cinders; and for permitting the Importation of PearlAshes; and for preventing Abuses in the Brewing of Beer and Ale, and Frauds in the Importation of Tobacco.

Ordered, That Mr. Cowper do carry the Bill to the Lords, and desire their Concurrence thereunto.

Collier's, &c. Nat.

A Message from the Lords, by Mr. Meredith and Doctor Newton:

Mr. Speaker,

The Lords have agreed to the Amendments, made by this House, to the Bill, intituled, An Act for naturalizing Sir David Collier, Isaac la Meloniere, Peter de Belcastel, and William Rejatore.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Supply Bill; Duty on Paper, &c.

Mr. Harcourt reported from the Committee appointed to draw up the Reasons to be offered at the Conference with the Lords, for disagreeing to the Amendment made to the Bill, intituled, An Act for laying a Duty upon Paper, Parchment, Vellom, and Pasteboard, for the Purposes therein mentioned, That they had drawn up Reasons accordingly; which they had directed him to report to the House; which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were twice read; and, upon the Question put thereupon, agreed unto by the House; and are as follow; viz.

That all Aids which are granted in Parliament are the sole and entire Gift, Grant, and Present, of the Commons in Parliament; and that it is the undoubted Right and Privilege of the Commons, that such Aids are to be raised by such Methods, and with such Provisions, as the Commons only think proper; and that your Lordships, by the ancient Law and Constitution of Parliaments, are not to alter any such Gift, or Grant, or the Methods or Provisions for collecting, raising, or enforcing, the Payment thereof.

Ordered, That Mr. Harcourt do go to the Lords, and desire the said Conference.

Mr. Harcourt reported, That, he having been at the Lords to desire the said Conference, the Lords do agree to a Conference, and appoint the same presently, in the Painted Chamber.

Ordered, That the Committee who drew up the said Reasons do manage the said Conference.

And they went to the Conference.

And, being returned;

Mr. Harcourt reported, That they had given the Lords the Reasons for disagreeing to the said Amendment; and had left the Bill, and Amendment, with the Lords.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Eight a Clock.