House of Commons Journal Volume 2: 13 March 1641

Pages 103-104

Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 2, 1640-1643. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.

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Die Sabbati, 13 Martii, 1640.


Knyvell's Estate.

1a vice lecta, AN Act for the Sale of certain Manors, est Billa, Lands, and Tenements, of Sir PhilipKnyvell Knight and Baronet, for Payment of his Debts; upon Question, rejected.

Worcester Election.

Ordered, That the Business, concerning the Election for Worcestershire, be heard at the Committee for Sir Lewis Dive, where Mr. Constantine has the Chair, on Thursday come Three Weeks, in the Afternoon, in the Exchequercourt; and that all those of the Committee for Privileges, that will come, shall have Voices at this Committee.

Marquis of Winton's Estate.

2da vice lecta est Billa, An Act to enable the Marquis of Winton to make Leases of Twenty-one Years, or Three Lives, of Lands in the County of Southampton, reserving the old Rent; upon Question, committed unto Sir Arthur Ingram, Mr. Whitehead, Mr. Jane, Sir Fred. Cornewallis, Mr. Harding, Mr. Kirton, Mr. Capell, Sir Ro. North, Sir Ro. Howard, Sir Edw. Deering, Sir Ro. Pye, Sir Jo. Strangewayes, Mr. Dutton, Sir Jo. Evelyn, Mr. Napier, Sir Edm. Vowell, Sir Edm. Mountfort, Sir Dudley North, Sir Ro. Crane, Sir Rich. Winne, Ld. Fairefax, Ld. Compton, Sir Humfrey Tufton, Sir Geo. Dallston, Mr. White, Sir Simonds D'Ewes, Mr. Evelyn, Sir Gilbert Gerard, Sir Guy Palmes, Mr. Kinge, Mr. Rigby, Mr. Prideaux, Mr. Hill, the Knights and Burgesses of the County of Southampton; they are to meet on Tuesday next, at Two of Clock in the Afternoon, in the Court of Wards.

Navy Supply.

Ordered, That, on Monday Morning next, peremptorily, the House take into Consideration some present Way of providing Monies for Furnishing of so many Ships, to be speedily set forth, as shall be necessary for the Guard of the Seas, and Defence of the Kingdom.

Disbanding Irish Army, &c.

Ordered, That after the Report from the Earl of Straford's Committee shall be ended, the House do take into Consideration the Disbanding of the Irish Army, and those other Heads of that Conference.

Trial of E. of Straford.

Mr. Perpoint is appointed to go up to the Lords to desire a free Conference, by the same Committee that was last appointed for the free Conference touching the Trial of the Earl of Straford.

Mr. Whitlocke reports from the Committee for the Earl of Straford, that the House had heard Part of this Report the other Day; viz.

1. The Place for Trial.

2. The Persons to be present.

3. The Managing of the Evidence.

These Three past their Vote Yesterday.

The 4th Head, concerning Counsel, was recommitted, which received this Resolution;

That the Commons do acquaint their Lordships, that if at any time during the Evidence, the Counsel of the Earl of Straford shall interpose, then the Members of this House, that are appointed to manage the Evidence, must of Necessity desist; because it will not become them to plead against Counsel:

And as concerning the allowing of Counsel in Matters of Law, and reserving to their Lordships to judge the Doubt what is Matter of Fact, and what not, the Commons do save to themselves all Rights, that do appertain to them, according to Law, and Course of Parliament; and do declare, that the Proceedings, in this Case, shall not be drawn into Precedent, to the Prejudice of the Commons:

For the other Matter concerning the Offence of the Counsel of the Earl of Straford's, by being of Counsel with him without Leave of this House, the Committee could not proceed, the other Matter taking up the whole Time.

Army Discipline.

Lord Digbie's Report from the Conference with the Lords;

That the Earl of Bristoe spake, in the Name of the Lords, to this Effect; That the King had understood, and did take well, our Care to settle an Order for the Government and Discipline of his Army, and Punishing of such Disorders as should arise there: That, having said this, he read the Order unto us; which was for a Commission of Oyer and Terminer for the Officers of the Field, joining unto them such Persons, as the Knights and Burgesses of the County of Yorke should nominate: Which being read; he resumed the Discourse, and told us, his Majesty had been informed by my Lord General, and other Officers, that, in this Course unsettled, there had been many Difficulties and Dangers, and many Disorders had risen, which this House would hardly suppress:

The King acquainted the Lords therewith, and desired them to acquaint the House of Commons with it, that .. may take into Consideration, and settle some such Course for the Government of the Army, as might not cross and be repugnant to the Law:

And that as they, on their Parts, shall take this Matter into Consideration, so they desired the like of the House of Commons; and that they would prepare themselves for a free Conference for both Houses, as might settle some way of Discipline for the Army, as might not weaken the Petition of Right; and that we would acquaint them, as soon as we are ready for a Conference.

Expences of the Army, &c.

Ordered, That the Committee for the King's Army do consider of some Means and Way of lessening the Expences of both Armies, and to present it to the House. And they are likewise to consider, what present Monies will be necessary, if the Armies shall be disbanded or lessened: And they are, for this Service, to meet on Monday in the Afternoon, at Two of Clock, in the Inner Court of Wards.


Mr. Perpoint brings Answer of the Message; that the Lords will give a Meeting presently, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber, by the same Committees.

The Committee for the Earl of Straford are to manage this Conference.

Trial of E. of Straford.

Mr. Whittlock acquaints the House, that, according to the Commands of this House, he had delivered unto the Lords the Votes, that had passed here concerning the Trial of the Earl of Straford.


A Message from the Lords, by the Master of the Rolls and Dr. Mason;

The Lords desire a free Conference by the same Committee, touching the Demands concerning the Earl of Straford, presently, in the Painted Chamber, if it may stand with the Conveniency of this House.

Answer returned, by the same Messengers; that this House has taken their Lordships Message into Consideration; and will give a Meeting presently, as is desired.

The same Committee is to manage and report this Conference.

Spencer's Nat.

1a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the Naturalizing of Dorothy Spencer, Daughter of Henry Lord Spencer, Baron of Wormeleighton.

Leave of Absence.

Mr. Rigby has Leave to go into the Country about a Fortnight hence, and to be absent for some Three Weeks or thereabouts.

Trial of E. of Straford.

Mr. Whittlock reports, from the free Conference desired by the Lords, touching the Demands concerning the Trial of the Earl of Straford;

That the Lord of Bathe was pleased to declare, in the Name of the Lords, That the House had taken into Consideration those Demands made this Morning, and agreed an Answer to every one of them:

1. As to the Place; they had agreed it should be in Westminster-hall; and the King to be made acquainted with it by the Lord Great Chamberlain.

2. For Persons; their Lordships agreed to it, that the House of Commons be present as a Committee of the whole House, for this Time; with a Saving of the Rights of the Lords House, either according to Law, or Parliamentary Proceedings; and that this shall not be drawn into Precedent hereafter, on either Side.

For the 3, for Managing of our Evidence; they grant it wholly.

For the 4th, for Counsel in Managing and Forcing of Evidence; the Counsel of the Earl of Straford is not to speak nor interrupt the Matter of the House of Commons, while all the Evidence is finished; and the Counsel is not to stand at the Bar, but in some convenient Place, where they may hear; and that they may speak for Matter of Law, but not for Matter of Fact; and that, not unless their Lordships shall see fit.

Next, for the Time; my Lord of Bathe did tell us, they could not yet resolve upon it, till the Surveyor and Workmen, that did take Care of this Business, did give Account how soon they can be ready.

Ordered, That it be referred to the Committee for the Earl of Straford, with the Additions made to that Committee for this Purpose, to consider of the Savings, and the other Parts of that Report, now made from the free Conference, concerning the Trial of the Earl of Straford; and they are to present to the House, what they think fit to be done thereupon.

Business deferred.

Ordered, That the Consideration of disbanding the new Irish Army, and disarming the Papists, and removing the English Papists from Court, be resumed on Monday Morning: And that, next, the House enter into the Consideration of providing Monies for the speedy Setting forth of a Navy, for the Guard of the Seas, and Defence of the Kingdom, according to a former Order.