House of Commons Journal Volume 2: 23 March 1641

Pages 111-112

Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 2, 1640-1643. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.

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Page 111
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Die Martis, 23 Martii, post meridiem


Yorke Petition.

THE humble Petition of many of the Inhabitants of the County of Yorke, was read: But nothing as yet was done upon it.

Disarming Irish Army, &c.

Sir Ph. Sapleton went up to the Lords with this Message;

To desire a free Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, concerning their joining with this House, to petition his Majesty for the Disbanding of the new-levied Irish Army; disarming the Popish Recusants; and the Removal of Papists from Court; especially those formerly named, viz. Mr. Walth. Mountague, Sir Kenelme Digby, Sir Jo. Wintour, and Sir Toby Mathew.

Sir Walth. Erle and Mr. Rennolds are to manage this Conference; and are to move the Lords, to appoint a Time to petition his Majesty; and are to enforce their Desire of removing the Papists from Court, by that Circumstance of Mr. Walth. Mountague's appearing Yesterday, before both Houses, at the Trial of the Earl of Straford.

Affairs of the Kingdom.

Mr. Pierrepoint begins the Report of the free Conference had Yesterday with the Lords, concerning the Affairs of the Kingdom.

At this Conference, the Earl of Bristol began as followeth:

"Gentlemen, and You the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses of the House of Commons,"

"I am commanded by my Lords here to let you know, that they have taken serious Deliberation of the Propositions made by you, the other Day, in a Conference, concerning the Extremity in which the Kingdom was, for want of Money to give Satisfaction to the Two Armies."

"I am commanded to let you know, their Lordships, in this, and any thing else, that may conduce to the Service of the King, and Good of the Kingdom, will concur, and be very ready to give such Assistance as you shall propound, or upon Debate with them, think fit, to advance the Work. You were pleased to declare the great Industry used for raising of Monies; and truly we conceive it can scarce be parallelled in any Time, where the House of Commons hath shewed so great Affection to the Good of the Kingdom, as, in their own Particulars, to be so engaged as they have been: But they now perceive, though as good Security, as can be, hath been tendered, (not only personal Security, but the Security of the Kingdom, the Bill of Subsidies) the Cause of this Hindrance must be some Apprehension of Damage, which the Kingdom hath, and particularly the City of London, in that they fear unquiet and dangerous Times; and so loth to part with Money; for we cannot but conceive, there is Money in the Kingdom, and in the City: This Fear is that which maketh them all keep the Wealth they have, to serve their Turns in Extremity of Danger; and therefore think, that since there is great Use of Money, to open the Credit of the Kingdom; for the Granting of Subsidies doth not get ready Money, but gives Credit; and Peace and Tranquility will encourage the Lending of Money: And therefore the Lords have commanded the Lords Commissioners, with all Speed, to bring unto you the Bottom of the Treaty with the Scotts; that the Kingdom may see in what Estate we are; and I hope it will be in a few Days towards Peace: And their Lordships, as well for the Sums in Arrear, as for those other great Sums, which are promised, and must in time be provided, will, I make no doubt, likewise concur with you in that, and in all Things else, that may conduce to the Happiness of the State: And therefore, because Ways of Money are more proper to proceed from you, than from us, if you shall think, that any Way, that may be propounded by you, may be effectual; or, if you propound not, their Lordships will let you know some of their Propositions; and if you be not now prepared to confer about it, we shall when you please, debate the same with you."

Ld. Say. - "My Lords have commanded me to let you know, that they do conceive much Content in the good Correspondency between both Houses, as it is evidenced in this Particular; which, though it is a tender Point, (and wherein my Lords will not trench upon your Privileges) you desire their Advice; and there is nothing, wherein they may concur with you, that they will be unwilling unto: One way they have thought of, which, if you approve of it, and think it fit, may be used; whereby the City may be moved, from both Houses, to lend; for There is the Money to be had; but there are some Obstructions, which may be by Mistakes: And I do not doubt but that they will, when they shall be moved by both Houses, be induced to lend that Money, that may serve the Occasion, when the Danger shall be made appear."

Earl of Essex.- "I am only to add this more, that, because there may be another Obstacle of lending Money; the great Grievances and Calamities of this Kingdom, together with the Causers and Advisers thereof; I am commanded to tell you, their Lordships are very sensible of it; and that in Removing of any that have been the Causes of these Troubles, and in the Redress, they shall be ready to join in any Way with you."

Earl of Bath.- "To press, with all Expedition, the Scotch Commissioners to come to a Conclusion of the Treaty, to the Content of both Houses."


Sir Philip Stapleton brings Answer; that their Lordships will give a Meeting for a free Conference by a Committee of the whole House, presently, as is desired.

Sir W. Erle reports, that he and Mr... delivered That with which they were intrusted, as Managers of this Conference; and that their Lordships Answer was, that they would send Answer by Messengers of their own.

Army Affairs.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Edward Leech and Dr. Bennet;

The Lords desire a free Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, concerning the last free Conference; and something concerning the English Army in the North.

Answer returned by the same Messengers; that this House has considered of their Lordships Message; and will give a Meeting presently, by a Committee of the whole House, as is desired.

Sir Edw. Hungerford, Mr. Rennolds, Ld. Digby, Mr. Hollis, Mr. Martin, Sir H. Vane, Sir Jo. Culpeper, are appointed Reporters of this Conference.

Trial of Earl of Straford.

Ordered, That the House meet, as a Committee, Tomorrow at Eight of Clock, at Westminster-hall.

The House does expect, that all the Members of the House should conform themselves to the Order made for regulating Matters at the Trial of the Earl of Straford; and that the Committee, appointed for that Business, shall complain of any that conform not thereunto.


Ordered, That all Committees, that should have sate To-morrow, meet on Thursday.

Deans and Chapters.

Moved, That the Business, concerning Deans and Chapters, may be taken into Consideration To-morrow.

Army Affairs.

Moved, That the Report of the Conference, now had with the Lords, concerning the English Army in the North, be made To-morrow.

Afternoon Sittings.

Moved, That an Order might be made, that the House might not sit in the Afternoons after Six of Clock.

Perd's Complaint.

Moved, That the House shall, To-morrow, take into Consideration the Wrong done to Mr. Perd, by Sir Wm. Carnarby, if the Business should not, before that Time, be accommodated between them.