House of Commons Journal Volume 2: 15 April 1641

Pages 120-121

Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 2, 1640-1643. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.

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Die Jovis, 15 April', 1641.


Proceedings against Earl of Straford.

NR. Capell went up to the Lords with this Message; to desire a free Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, concerning the Proceedings against the Earl of Straford, so soon as may stand with their Lordships Conveniency.

Mr. Solicitor, Mr. Maynard, Mr. Glyn, Sir Jo. Colpeper, Mr. Pimme, Mr. Whittlock, Mr. Whistler, Mr. Strode;

This Committee is to retire presently, into the Committee-chamber, to prepare Heads for a Conference, concerning the Proceedings against the Earl of Straford.

Leave of Absence.

Mr. King has Leave to go into the Country, for Recovery of his Health, for some convenient Time; but he is first to leave such Books of Accompts, Patents, and other Papers that he has in his Custody; and the Notes that he has taken at the Committees for Salt, Soap, Leather, Coal, and Algiers, where he has the Chair; and to deliver them to Mr. Goodwyn, or whom he shall think fit: And he is so to prepare his Notes, that Mr. Goodwyn, or any other whom he shall intrust with them, may be able to make use of them, if Occasion be.

Conference agreed to.

Mr. Capell brings Answer, that their Lordships will give a Meeting, by a Committee of the whole House, in the Painted Chamber, presently, as is desired.

Leave of Absence.

Mr. Napier has Leave to be absent, and to go into he Country, for some convenient Time.

Proceedings against Earl of Straford.

Mr. Maynard reports, from the Committee, the Heads of the Conference to be desired with the Lords, concerning the Proceedings against the Earl of Straford, to this Effect:

1. To offer unto their Lordships, that it was last Night Five of Clock before this Intimation of their Lordships Intention to hear the Earl of Straford's Counsel, came to this House.

.. That, upon some Conferences heretofore had with their Lordships, a Saving was made by this House in that Point; whether Counsel should be heard or not; and 'tis not now Time to consider whether they should depart from this Saving.

3. Great Difficulties to know to what Purpose the Counsel shall be heard, the Case not being stated, agreed on, or made: Then, to propound the Danger and Inconveniences, if his Counsel make a Case, and ravel into all our Evidence, in such an Auditory; and whether to dispute the Case as 'tis alledged in the Articles.

That the Evidence of Fact being given, it was in Proposition from the Beginning, to go by way of Bill: And that a Bill is exhibited here for his Attainder.

That the Proceeding, by way of Bill, stands in no way of Opposition to those Proceedings that have already been in this Business.

These several Considerations make more Difficulty in this House, than to come to a sudden and present Resolution.

Resolved, upon the Question, That these shall be the Heads of this Conference.

The Committee appointed to prepare the Heads, are likewise appointed to manage; and report the Conference, if Occasion be.

Mr. Maynard reports, that the Earl Marshal acquainted them, That he had made a Report of what had been delivered by the House of Commons; they had entered into Debate of it, and so soon as they had come to a Resolution, they would send Answer by Messengers of their own; but, in the mean time, they had put off the Hearing the Earl of Straford's Counsel for this Day.

Attainder of Earl of Straford.

Ordered, That the House be resolved into a Committee to debate farther the Bill of Attainder of Tho. Earl of Straford.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Mr. Perd was called to the Chair.

Mr. Speaker reassumed the Chair.

Counsel in the Lords.

Mr. Perd, Mr. Palmer, and Mr. Holborne, have Leave to be of Counsel before the Lords.

House to meet.

Ordered, That the House meet this Afternoon, at Three of Clock.

Post Meridiem

Skinners Trade.

1a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for Continuance of some Part of a Statute, made in the Third Year of King James, intituled, An Act for Relief of such as lawfully use the Trade and Handicraft of Skinners, and for the Enlargement thereof; upon Question, rejected.

Trifling Suits

1a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the better Avoiding of the infinite Number of small and trifling Suits, commenced in the Courts at Westminster.

Leave of Absence.

Mr. Taylor has Leave to go into the Country for some convenient Time.

Treaty with Scotland.

A Committee of the House went up to the Conference desired by the Lords, concerning the Treaty between the Two Kingdoms, according to an Order of Yesterday.

The same Reporters were appointed as were Yesterday.

Proceedings against Earl of Straford.

A Message from the Lords, by J. Foster and J. Heath;

The Lords desire a free Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, concerning the Business of the Proceedings against the Earl of Straford, presently, if it may stand with the Conveniency of this House, in the Painted Chamber.

Answer returned by the same Messengers;

This House has taken their Lordships Message into Consideration; and will give a Meeting presently, as is desired.

The same Committee that managed the Conference this Morning, are to manage this; and to report it, if Occasion be.

Mr. Fines is added to this Committee.

If any new Matter be propounded by the Lords at this Conference, the Committee is to give no Answer unto it, but report it to the House.

Mr. Whitlock reports this Conference.

Lord Say told them, that they had taken into Consideration this great Business, and were not absolutely resolved how it should proceed; that the Lord of Straford's Counsel should have Notice to attend there Tomorrow; and should not speak to any Matter of Fact, but to Matter of Law only.

It was afterwards said by another Lord, that the Time [was] so short, that they had resolved not to send for him till [they] heard from this House.