Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 2, 1640-1643. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.
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Die Martis, 28° Aprilis, 16° Car. Regis, 1640.
Exporting Wools; &c.
Clerk of the Market, &c.
This Committee, or any Three or more af them, are to peruse the Indentures of Returns, to see if any be returned with Blanks: And to this Purpose, they have Power to send for the Clerk of the Crown to attend them with all the several Indentures; and have Power to send for Witnesses, and to use any other Means of Discovery; and are to meet at Two post Meridiem, in the Committee Chamber.
-Referred to the Committee for Privileges, to view forthwith the Indentures concerning Mr. Burlasse's Election; and if it shall appear upon the bare View; to pusue the Effect of the former Order made.
Election of Members.
Mr. Jones reports from the Committee of Privileges, that Mr. Strood, Mr. Harding, and Sir Amias Meredith, were all returned for the Town of Beere-elston in the County of Devon.-The Sixteenth of March, upon true Notice to the Inhabitants, Twenty-six appeared; and at that time Mr. Strood, Mr. Slainy, and Mr. Wilde, were Competitors; and Election was so far made at that Time, that Mr. Strood should be a Burgess for that Town, if either Mr. Slainy or Mr. Wilde were made Knights of the Shire, for the Counties of Devonshire or Cornwall.- Adjourned again to 27° Martii-Then cometh other Two Competitors, with Mr. Strood, Sir Ananias Meredith, and Mr. Harris, who had Seventeen Voices, Sir Ananias Meredith Twelve Voices, and Mr. Strood had but Six.- This is the Fact of the Case.
But in the Disposition of it, by Proof, the Point falls out to be,-Whether there was a clear Election of Mr. Strood the first Day:-2. Whether with a Condition:- 3. Whether, though but with Six Voices at the last Election, it shall avoid the First Election.
In Debate of this Case, they all agreed, that if in case he was well elected the first Day upon Condition, it was good de facto; for Mr. Wise was made Knight of the Shire: A great Part were of Opinion, that a Condition to an Election was void; for, by the Laws of this Realm, they conceive, that Elections ought to be free; and to have a Condition, precedent or subsequent to an Election, was against Law: But these Disputes were at last set out of Doors; and they found the Election absolutely was clear for Mr. Strood the first Day, and no Condition at all.-Mr. Wise and Mr. Slainy, both before and after the Election, made a Declaration, that if either of them were Knights of the Shire, that Mr. Strood should have the first Place as a Burgess:
Mr. Jones' Second Report from the Committee of Privileges.-That the Election for the Town of * in the County of * did belong to the Bailiffs, Portreves, and ancient Burgesses, of that Town; that there was some Misdemeanors in one Franklin, that got the Præcipe in the Bailiff's Hand; and caused a new Election, for his own Ends; and returned Burgesses, under the Hands of an Officer, to whom the Warrant was not directed.
It was denied, on the other side, that the Election of Burgesses did belong to the ancient Burgesses of the Town; which were, the Bailiffs, Portreves, and those that had been Officers in the Town; and, that the Election was free to every one that paid Scot and Lot.
The Committee being not satisfied, that it did belong to the ancient Burgesses by Prescription; they remitted the Election to the Inhabitants that paid Scot and Lot; who chose Mr. Harding and Mr. Sayer.
Resolved, upon the Question, That, in the Opinion of this House, grounded upon the whole Report now made by Mr. Jones, Mr. Harding and Mr. Seymour are well elected, and well returned, and ought to serve in this House.
Jones' Double Return.
Ordered, Mr. Jones to be dispensed with from being concluded within the Order, for making his Choice within Ten Days for what Place he will serve, being doubly returned, till this House shall farther order it.
Conference with Lords.
Ordered, Mr. Treasurer to go up to their Lordships, to desire a Conference, concerning something that happened in the late Conference with their Lordships, touching the Privileges of the House of Commons, by a Committee of both Houses, if their Lordships shall so think fit.
Mr. Treasurer returns Answer from the Lords, That, according to the Command of this House, he has delivered their Message; and that their Lordships desire the Conference may be presently in the Painted Chamber, if we shall so agree.
Lords Interference in Matters of Supply.
Die Lunæ, 27° Aprilis, 16° Car.
At the Committee in the Court of Wards, at Two of the Clock in the Afternoon, and adjourned thence to the Committee Chamber, at Seven of Clock, 28 April, for preparing, in Writing, an Address to the Lords, according to the Order of 27 April, do conceive, and humbly offer,
That a Message be sent to the Lords, wherein the House desires a Conference with their Lordships, upon the Occasion of some Matters arising in the last Conference with their Lordships, on Saturday last, which they conceive do trench upon the Privileges of the Commons House:
That, at the Conference, it being admitted by their Lordships, that Matters of Subsidy naturally and properly belong to this House; and that their Lordships would not meddle therewith, or give their Advice therein, but had declined it; the Committee therefore conceived, that this House shall not need to labour therein, or to think of any Precedents or Reasons, for the Maintenance of this Privilege:
That, notwithstanding this Declaration, their Lordships have meddled with, and advised, concerning, both the Matter of Supply, and the Time when the same should be made; and that, before such Time as the same was moved to them by the Commons; as appears by their Lordships Declaration, viz. "That they had voted, that they held it most necessary and fit, that the Matter of Supply should have Precedency, before any other Matter or Consideration whatsoever; and therefore desired that Conference with the Commons, to let them know their Lordships Reasons: And that, That being taken into Consideration and done, by the Commons, their Lordships would freely join with them in all that concerns Matter of Religion, Propriety of Estate, and Privilege of Parliament."
And whereas the Committee was induced to conceive, that their Lordships had been informed, that the Commons, upon Debate thereof, had taken into their Consideration the Matters of Religion, Property of Estate, and Privileges of Parliament; and that they were to have Precedency before Supply; which might occasion their Lordships voting concerning the Supply; they humbly offer, that the same may be presented to their Lordships, in Words to this Effect:
That, in case their Lordships have taken notice of any Orders or Proceedings of the Commons, concerning Matters of Religion, Property of Estate, and Privileges of Parliament, that they were to have Precedency before the Supply, which they have some Cause to conceive by those Words, "that This being done, their Lordships will freely join with the Commons in these Three Things;" For the Avoiding of all Misunderstandings between their Lordships and the Commons, for time to come, they desire their Lordships, hereafter to take no notice of any thing which shall be debated by the Commons, until they shall themselves declare the same unto their Lordships; which the Commons shall always observe towards the Proceedings of their Lordships; conceiving the contrary not to stand with the Privileges of either House.
The Committee returned from their Conference; and Mr. Pimme informed the House, That, according to their Command, he attended the Service of waiting upon the Lords with the Address; their Lordships Answer was, they would report it unto their House, and return Answer in convenient time.
The select Committee, appointed on Friday last, for preparing and giving Directions for the Managing of the Conference to be desired with the Lords, upon those Heads that Day resolved upon, shall meet this Afternoon at Two of Clock, in the Exchequer Chamber; and shall report it to the House To-morrow Morning, if possible they can.