Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 2, 1640-1643. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.
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Die Jovis, 24 Feb. 1641.
Answer from the King- Irish Affairs.
HIS Majesty, being very glad to receive any Proposition that may repair the Calamity of His distressed Kingdom of Ireland, especially when it may be without Burthen or Imposition, and for the Ease of his good Subjects of this Kingdom, hath graciously considered the Overture made by both Houses of Parliament to that Purpose; and returns this Answer:
That as He hath offered, and is still ready, to venture His own Royal Person, for the Recovery of that Kingdom, if His Parliament shall advise him thereunto, so He will not deny to contribute any other Assistance He can to that Service, by parting with any Profit or Advantage of His own there: And therefore, relying upon the Wisdom of His Parliament, doth consent to every Proposition now made to Him, without taking Time to examine whether this Course may not retard the Reducing of that Kingdom, by exasperating the Rebels, and rendering them desperate of being received into Grace, if they shall return to their Obedience.
Proceedings against the Bishops.
The Lords have commanded us to let you know, that the Twelve Bishops, formerly impeached by this House, have desired, according to former appointment, that their Counsel may be heard this Day: And the Lords have appointed Three of Clock this Afternoon; and thought fit to acquaint this House therewith.
The Lords desire a free Conference, by Committees of both Houses, presently, in the Painted Chamber, if it may stand with the Conveniency of this House, concerning the Prince; and concerning his Majesty's Answer to the Propositions of both Houses, touching the Affairs of Ireland.
Proceedings concerning the Prince.
They thought fit that the Prince should not remove; and desired this House to join with them in an Order, that the Prince shall stay at Hampton-court, and not remove to Greenwich; and that the Lords had appointed..... of their Members, to attend his Majesty; and to represent... him the Reasons of this Order.
Resolved, That a proportionable Number of this House shall be appointed to go with the Member appointed to attend his Majesty, to acquaint him with this Resolution concerning the Prince; and to represent unto him the Reasons for it.
"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons, in Parliament, That the Lord Marquis Hertford take care that the Prince be not removed from Hampton-court, until his Lordship's Health permit him to attend That Charge given to him by his Majesty and the Parliament."
THE Lords and Commons, assembled in Parliament, are very sensible of the Care and Affection of the Council of Scotland, in offering the Endeavour of so eminent a Person as the Marquis of Argile, for the Good and Peace of both Kingdoms; but finding the present State of Ireland to be such, as that, for want of Residence in That Kingdom of Scotland, the Rebels of Ireland may take great Advantages, whereby the Peace of both Kingdoms may be disturbed; and considering the Power to be given by Commission from his Majesty, to the Marquis of Argile, or his Deputy, to raise Forces for the Kingdom of Ireland; the Lords and Commons conceive, the Presence of a Person of his Worth and Power will be much more necessary, at this Time, in the Kingdom of Scotland, than his Repair hither: For, however the Proceedings of Parliament have met with such Obstructions as have put the Affairs of this Kingdom into some Difficulty, yet they are now in hope, that, by the Providence of God, and the Goodness and Justice of his Majesty, there will be so happy and speedy an Issue thereof, as shall produce the Peace and Prosperity of the Kingdoms: To which they find the Commissioners of Scotland, here residing, so ready upon all Occasions to contribute their best Endeavours, with great Wisdom and Affection, that they desire neither the Lord Chancellor, (whom we likewise understand to be in the Commission for the Treaty,) nor the Marquis of Argile, may now be put to the Incommodity and Trouble of so long a Journey; they being both Persons of so great Merit and Honour, as doth only place them in a high Degree of Estimation throughout this whole Kingdom, especially the Parliament; and very much increase and confirm our Confidence, that, by their Advice and Assistance, with the Authority of the Council of State in Scotland, the Supplies for Ireland will be furthered in their Transportation, and likewise followed with such Counsel and Directions, as may advance his Majesty's Service there for reducing that Kingdom, and preserving the Interest of this Crown: For which we shall always make a thankful Acknowledgment and Return.
Bill against the Bishops.
Message to Lords.
Transporting Wools, &c.
Ordered, That it be referred to the Committee, that brought in the Propositions concerning the Supplies for Ireland, to consider of the Propositions, and his Majesty's Answer to them; and to put them into such a Way as may bring them to a sudden and speedy Effect: And that the Committee do likewise prepare a Bill concerning them.
Proceedings concerning the Prince.
2. That Marquis Hertford, who is appointed by his Majesty to be Governor of the Prince, and approved of, and commanded by the Parliament to give his personal Attendance upon the Prince, is so indisposed in his Health that he is not able to attend the Prince in any other Place.
Mr. Kighlie being called in; said, That he desired to speak, to inform this House, that the Original of this Petition remains in the Hands of a Member of this House; which, if it may be produced, will shew the Hands of divers other Persons subscribed unto it, that are not here now to avow it:
Scotch Officers for Ireland.
Mr. Keightley came in to the Bar; and desired to stand in the good Opinion of this House: That he intended nothing to stir any Sedition: He knew nothing that was done in the Common-council; nor that the Matter concerning the Militia, mentioned in the Petition, was settled by both Houses of Parliament.
Mr. Keightley was again called in: And Mr. Speaker told him, "The House approves well of what you said for yourself: You desired you might speak for others; the House would know the Names of such as you desire to speak for."
He said, that when he was without, he acquainted his Fellow-citizens with what he intended to speak for himself; and asked whether he should say the same for them: And they cried out, a great many of them, in such a confused Manner, "For me, for me," as he could not distinguish their Names.
Being asked, by Mr. Speaker, who first advised him to subscribe the Petition; he said, Mr. Woodward first told him, that such a Petition lay at Mr. Mosse's Shop: That he should read it, and, if he liked it, he should underwrite it.
Resolved, upon the Question, That the Examination of the main Matter of the Petition, preferred and subscribed by divers Citizens, concerning the Militia of the City, be referred to the Committee for Informations.
Resolved, That the Committee for the Informations shall presently go forth, to examine the Particulars of the Petition preferred, concerning the Militia of the Kingdom: And Mr. Whittacre is to report, To-morrow Morning, the Names of such Persons as upon Examination he shall find to have been the Chief Actors and Contrivers of this Petition.
Message from the King.
Mr. Speaker acquainted the House, that he had, last Night, received a Message from his Majesty, in a Letter from his Majesty, directed to himself: The which Letter and Message, Mr. Speaker himself read.
Ordered, That this Message from his Majesty be referred to the same Committee that was appointed to consider of his Majesty's Message of the Eighth of September, and that prepared the Answer of this House unto it, of the Tenth of this Month: And Sir H. Vane senior is added to this Committee: And are to meet, To-morrow at Eight of Clock, in the Inner Court of Wards.
Answer from Lords.
Mr. Pym brings Answer, that, as to the Ordinance for securing the Monies to the Merchants that set forth Ships; and, to the Additions to the Answer to the Scotts Proposition, concerning the Marquis of Argile, they fully agree unto them: As to the free Conference, concerning the Bill of Pluralities, they will send Answer.
Book of Rates.
Resolved, upon the Question, That on Monday next, the House shall be resolved into a Committee, to take into Consideration the Book of Rates: And Mr. Speaker is to put the House in mind of this Order.
And they were again called in : And Mr. Speaker told them, "That... House had read the Petition directed to them: They find in it a great Expression of Care to the Publick, and of Respect to this House: For which they return you Thanks: They have likewise read the Copy of the Petition to the Lords; and do very well approve of it: And, for the Delivery of it, leave it to your own Discretions."
Punishing Attorney General.
1a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the exemplary Punishment of Sir Edw. Herbert Knight, his Majesty's Attorney General, for exhibiting false and scandalous Articles of High Treason, against the Lord Kimbolton, and Five Members of this House, in the House of Peers.
Message from the Lords; That they have this Day received a Petition from divers Londoners, directed to both Houses; and their Lordships have nominated a Committee of Thirteen of their own House, and desire this House to appoint a proportionable Number of their House; and desire a present Meeting, in the Painted Chamber, by that Committee, to consider of that Petition.
Ordered, That Mr. Strode and Mr. Wheeler do return Thanks to Mr. Marshall and Mr. Calamy, from this House, for their Pains taken in the Two Sermons on this last Fast Day, and to desire them, from this House, to print their Sermons.
Committee of both Houses.
The Committee, formerly appointed for Informations, was the Committee appointed to meet with the Committee of the Lords; with the Addition of the Lord Falkland, Mr. Purefrey, Sir H. Vane junior, Mr. Cage, Sir Tho. Bowyer, Sir Sam. Rolle, Mr. Martin, Mr. Goodwyn, Mr. Browne, Sir Ro. Coke, Sir Tho. Barrington, Sir H. Ludlow.
General of Scotch Army.
Resolved, upon the Question, That the House shall be resolved into a Committee, peremptorily, To-morrow at Ten of Clock, to proceed with the Bill of Four hundred thousand Pounds; and that no Motion shall intervene: And Mr. Speaker is to put the House in mind of this Order.
Ordered, That the Three Ships in the Pay of this House, and taken up at Bristoll, shall be employed for the Guard of the Sea Coasts of Munster; and shall follow such Directions, as, from time to time, they shall receive, either from the Lord President of Munster, or the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland.
Articles of Agreement, made and concluded upon the Twenty-fourth Day of February, Anno Domini 1641, between Nath. Fienis Esquire, Sir Philip Stapilton Knight, and John Hampden Esquire, Members of the Honourable House of Commons, by Direction of the said House of Commons, of the One Part; and John Davies, of Carrickfergus, Merchant, of the other Part.
IMPRIMIS, The said John Davies doth undertake, promise, and agree, unto and with the said Nath. Fienis, Sir Philip Stapilton, and John Hampden, and every of them, to furnish and deliver at Carrickfergus, good and wholesome Bread, Beef, Butter, and Cheese, sufficient for the Victualling of his Majesty's Forces of English and Scottish, in the Province of Ulster, containing about Six thousand Men, be they more or less, for the Space of Three Months, at these Rates following; that is to say, Bread at One Penny Half-penny per Pound; Beef One Penny Half-penny per Pound; Butter Four Pence Halfpenny per Pound, and Cheese One thousand Two hundred and three for Two-pence Half-penny: And that if the said John Davis shall not be able to provide sufficient, in One Kind, of the said Provisions, excepting Bread, he shall make up the same in some other of the said Provisions, at the said respective Rates. In Consideration whereof, the said Nathaniel Fienns, Sir Philip Stapilton, and John Hampden, do promise and agree to deliver and pay unto the said John Davis, on or before the Twenty sixth of this Instant February, the full and just Sum of Four thousand Pounds of lawful English Money.
Item, The said John Davis for himself, his Executors, Administrators, and for every of them, doth covenant, promise, and agree, to and with the said Nathanael Fines, Sir Philip Stapilton, and John Hampden, and every of them, That at or before the Twenty-fourth Day of July next ensuing the Date of these Presents, he the said John Davis, his Executors and Administrators, shall and will content, satisfy and pay unto the said Nathanael Fynes, Sir Philip Stapilton, and John Hampden, some or One of them, the full and just Sum of Four thousand Pounds, in ready Money, or in good Debts, of the Soldiers of the said Army, for such Provisions by him unto them deli-vered, signified and attested by Warrant, in Writing, under the Hand of the chief Commander of the said Forces or Army there; and shall every Week deliver unto the Treasurer at Wars, appointed for the said Army, or to his Deputy or Deputies, an Account in Writing, under his Hand, of all such Provisions as he shall so deliver unto the Soldiers upon Trust; and shall shew unto the said Treasurer, his Deputy or Deputies, the Warrants upon which the same was delivered.
Intercepted Letters, &c.
1. "That some of the Letters take notice of Instructions from a Jesuit called Father S., and sent by Seven Jesuits and Priests, and taken at Silly, by Mr. Bassett the Vice Admiral: They were directed to go to Ulster in Ireland, to speak with the Earl of Antrim, Sir Alex. Gurdon, and Sir Geo. Hambleton; which Sir Geo. Hambleton, we conceive, is That Man that had his Majesty's Warrant to pass into Ireland, and who is now stayed: He hath written Directions to go to certain Lords in Scotland, and to speak with Sir Alexander Seaton, Marquis Huntley's Servant, and others; but the Instructions what to impart to those Persons were not there mentioned. - One Letter, dated 1° Januarii, wherein were these Words: "That here is a Report, Four thousand Irish are up for their Faith; and that the English Ambassador is turned Catholick, and goeth to Mass at Madrid:" This was directed to one at Wexford: The other Letter, dated 13° Januarii, Thirteen Days after the former, deelaring the like Report of the English Ambassador. - Then there was a Commission, subscribed C. H. S. by Serjeant Major Patricke, to fill up the Companies of Scottish Soldiers: Then they write of several small Sums, and Ornaments of Chapels, and divers Relicks, addressed from thence for Ireland: Then Letters to other Persons, commanding them to write to the Spanish Ambassador out of Scotland and Ireland, to give him Thanks, and to tell him the King his Master thanks him: Then of drawing Men to the Sea Coasts; and that because Priests are scarce in Scotland, some English and Irish shall be sent there this Summer.
Ordered, That the Priests, and other Persons, bound for Ireland, and taken in Cornewall by Mr. Bassett the Vice Admiral, shall be tried at this next general Assizes for Cornewall: And the special Care hereof is recommended to the Judges of that Circuit: And the Examinations and Letters concerning those Persons, are ordered to be referred to Mr. Prideaux, Mr. Nicolls, Sir Ro. Cooke, Sir Jo. Bamfeild, Mr. Hill, to peruse the same, and to collect out of it what is material therein to be insisted upon for matter... Evidence, at the Trial of the said Persons: And are to meet To-morrow, at Eight... Clock, in the Court of Wards.
Mr. Pym reporteth from the Committee for Irish Affairs, the Names of the Members of this House agreed upon by them, to be Commissioners for the Speeding and Dispatching of the Businesses for Ireland; viz. Mr. Hollis, Mr. Pym, Mr. Martyn, Sir Walt. Erle, Mr. Cromwell, Sir Rob. Harley, Sir Jo. Mericke, Sir Rob. Cooke, Sir Hen. Vane, junior, Mr. Wallopp, Sir. Jo. Evelyn, Sir Rob. Parkehurst, Mr. Reynolds, Sir Ric. Cave.
King's Answer respecting Mr. Pym's Speech.
CHARLES Rex. TRUSTY and well-beloved, We greet you well. We have, here inclosed, sent our Reply to the Answer of Our House of Commons, touching such Persons as have been licensed by Us to go into Ireland; which Our Will and Command is, that you deliver to be read in Our said House: For which, this shall be your Warrant. Given at Our Court at Dover, the 22th of February, 1641.
AS His Majesty hath expressed a great Desire to give His House of Commons all possible Satisfaction to all their just Requests, and a Readiness to certify or retract any thing done by Himself, which might seem to trench upon their Privileges, by any Mistake of His; so He doubts not they will be ready, upon all Occasions, to manifest an equal Tenderness and Regard of his Majesty's Honour and Reputation with His good Subjects: And therefore His Majesty expects they should review His Message of the Seventh of this Month, concerning a Passage in Mr. Pym's Speech; and their Answer sent to His Majesty by some of their Members on the Tenth of the same, with which His Majesty can by no Means rest satisfied.
His Majesty's Exception in that Message, was, that it was affirmed in that Speech, that since the Stop upon the Ports against all Irish Papists, by both Houses, many of the Chief Commanders, now in the Head of the Rebels, have been suffered to pass by his Majesty's immediate Warrant.
To this the Answer is, "That the Speech mentioned in that Message to be delivered by Mr. Pym, was printed by their Order; and that what was therein delivered was agreeable to the Sense of the House: That they have received divers Advertisement, concerning several Persons, Irish Papists, and others, who have obtained His Majesty's immediate Warrant for their Passing into Ireland,
King's Answer respecting Mr. Pym's Speech.
His Majesty is most assured no such Person hath passed by his Warrant or Privity: And then He desires His House of Commons to consider, whether such a general Information and Advertisement, in which there is not so much as the Name of any particular Person mentioned, be Ground enough for such a direct and positive Affirmation as is made in that Speech; which, in respect of the Place and Person, and being now acknowledged to be agreeable to the Sense of the House, is of that Authority, that His Majesty may suffer in the Affections of many of His good Subjects, and fall under a possible Construction (considering the many scandalous Pamphlets to such Purpose) of not being sensible enough of that Rebellion, so horrid and odious to all Christians; by which, in this Distraction, such a Danger might possibly ensue to His Majesty's Person and Estate, as He is well assured His House of Commons will use their utmost Endeavours to prevent: And therefore His Majesty thinks it very necessary, and expects, that they name the Persons, who, by His Majesty's Licence, have passed into Ireland, and are now there, in the Head of the Rebels; or that if upon their Examination, they do not find particular Evidence to prove that Assertion (as His Majesty is confident they never can) as this Affirmation, which may reflect upon His Majesty, is very publick; so they will publish such a Declaration, whereby that Mistake may be discovered; His Majesty being the more tender, in that Particular, which hath reference to Ireland, as being most assured, that He hath been, and is, from His Soul, resolved to discharge His Duty, which God will require at His Hands, for the Relief of His poor Protestant Subjects there; and the utter Rooting out of that Rebellion: So That Service hath not suffered any but necessary Delays, by any Act of His Majesty, for the Want of any thing proposed to His Majesty, or within His Majesty's Power to do.
For the Persons named in the Answer, His Majesty saith, that Colonel Butler, and the Son of the Lord Nettersfeild, obtained his Warrants for their Passage into Ireland at His Majesty's being in Scotland; which was long, as His Majesty thinks, before the Order of both Houses; His Majesty knowing the former of them to be one who hath always made Professions to His Service, and to be Uncle to the Earl of Ormond, of whose Affection to the Protestant Religion, and His Majesty's Service, His Majesty hath great Cause to be assured; and the latter being a Person of whom, at that Time, there was no Suspicion, to his Majesty's Knowledge: For the other, it may be they have obtained Warrants from His Majesty since the said Order: But His Majesty assures the Parliament, that he had no Intimation of such an Order, till after Stay made of Sir George Hamilton, who was the last that had any Licence from His Majesty to pass for Ireland.
And His Majesty having, since this Answer from the House of Commons, used all possible Means, by the Examining His own Memory, and the Notes of His Secretaries, to find what Warrants have been granted by Him, and to what Persons, doth not find that He hath granted any to any Irish, but those who are named by the House of Commons; and, in December last, to the Earl of St. Albones, and to Two of his Servants, and to one Walter Tirrel, a poor Man; they being such as His Majesty is assured they are not with the Rebels, and much less chief Commanders over them: And though (it may be) the Persons named by the House of Commons are Papists, yet his Majesty, at that Time, thought it not fit, in respect of their Alliance in that Kingdom to such Persons of great Power of whom His Majesty hoped well, to discover any Suspicion of them; the Lords Justices having declared by their Letters, (which Letters were not disaproved of by the Parliament here) that they were so far from Owing of publick Jealousy of all Papists there, that they had thought fit to put Arms into the Hands of divers Noblemen of the Pale of that Religion, who made Profession to his Majesty's Service, and desired the same: And since so great a Trust reposed in some of the Lords of that Religion, was not disapproved by the Parliament here, his Majesty could not imagine it unsafe or unfit for Him, to give Licences to some few to pass into that Kingdom; who, though Papists, professed due Allegiance and Loyalty to his Majesty.
And therefore, unless the First Affirmation of the House of Commons can be made good by some Particulars, His Majesty doth not know, that his Ministers have failed in their Diligence and Faithfulness to His Majesty in this Point; or that His Honour hath suffered so much by any Act of His own, as that it needs be vindicated, for the Time past, by any other Way than such a Declaration: Which he expects from this House, as, in Duty and Justice, due to His Majesty.