House of Commons Journal Volume 9: 29 March 1673

Sabbati, 29 die Martii, 1673.

Prayers.

Perrott, &c. Navigation.

AN ingrossed Bill, sent from the Lords, to make the Rivers of Perrott and Thone, from the Port of Bridgwater to Taunton, and thence to Bradford Bridge navigable, was read a Second time.

Resolved, &c. That the Bill be committed to Sir Edmond Windham, Mr. Newport, Sir Winston Churchill, Sir Thomas Doleman, Mr. Maynard, Sir Philip Musgrave, Sir Eliab Harvey, Sir John Knight, Sir John Mallett, Sir John Talbott, Mr. Morrice, Lord Hawley, Colonel Titus, Mr. Vaughan, Mr. Crouch, Mr. Phillipps, Sir John Coventry, Mr. Westphaling, Sir Rich. Temple, Lord St. John, Mr. Prideaux, Sir Anth. Irby, Sir Trevor Williams, Sir John Earnley, Sir Thomas Lee, Lord Ashley, Sir John Bennet, Mr. Pleydall, Mr. Daniell, Mr. Whitaker, Sir Char. Harbord, Mr. Tregonwell, Sir Wm. Portman, Sir John Roll, Sir Gilbert Talbot, Mr. Buscowen, Mr. Powle, Sir Gilbert Gerrard, Mr. Chetwyn, Mr. Morrice, Mr. Wiseman, Sir John Birkenhead, Colonel Birch, Mr. Love, Mr. Whittaker, Sir William Bucknall, Mr. King, Sir John Fredericke, and all the Members of this House, that serve for the Counties of Somerset, Devon, Wiltes, and Dorset: And they are to meet in the Exchequer Chamber, the First Tuesday of the Meeting of this House, after the Recess: And that Mr. Speaker send out his Warrant of Summons, to give Notice to such Persons as are concerned in point of Interest, that they may there attend, and be heard before the Committee: And have Power to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.

Protestant Dissenters.

Sir Thomas Meeres reports from the Committee, to which it was referred to draw up Reasons to be offered at the Conference to be had with the Lords, the Reasons agreed by the Committee: Which he read; and after, delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Which, being again read, and agreed, are as followeth; viz.

That it is without Precedent, and may be of ill Consequence, to put a Power any-where out of Parliament, whether a Law should take its Effect or no.

That we do not know, upon what Terms and Conditions, and with what Limitations and Qualifications such a Proclamation may issue; whereby the Intent of this Law, might, in a great Measure, be defeated, and the Benefit of this Act rendered very uncertain to all those People to whom Ease is intended.

That it puts a great Number of Persons upon a different Dependency upon the Crown from the rest of his Majesty's Subjects; and if such Dissenters should have too great a Countenance, it might cause many Persons to withdraw themselves from the Church of England.

That though the House of Commons cannot comply with so unlimited a Power, as the issuing out such Proclamations would induce; yet to a Clause added to the End of our Amendment to the Proviso mark'd (A), we have put a sufficient Power in his Majesty, to prevent any Inconveniences that may arise by this Act: Which we doubt not but will satisfy your Lordships.

That these Words relate to the Way of proceeding by Justices of the Peace, without resorting to the King for Licences: Which the House of Commons have thought fit to continue for the Reasons before given: And therefore they cannot agree to this Amendment.

That by this Amendment the Tests of the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy, and the Subscription to the Articles of the Doctrine of the Church of England are wholly left out: Which if it were admitted, Liberty might be given to Popery, and all Heresies and Sects whatsoever.

That we do not intend by this Act to give Ease to those that differ from us in the Fundamentals of Religion; but only in some Circumstance or Ceremonial Part of it: And we cannot know who agree with us in Fundamentals, unless we propose somewhat to which we all consent: And we conceive this Subscription was enjoined in the Time of Queen Elizabeth, after the Reformation of Religion, before these Divisions did appear publickly in our Church.

That these Tests will put a Difference between Papists and Protestant Dissenters; which were never sufficiently distinguished by any Law yet extant: And this, we conceive, will be of great Benefit and Advantage to the Church of England; and conduce very much to the Preservation and Security of the Protestant Religion.

We think no Man deserves the Favour of this Act, who refuseth to take the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy; which are the civil Obligations of the Subjects of England to their King.

We cannot admit of this Amendment, because we disagree to your Lordships former Amendment of Procuring Licences from the King; to which this doth relate.

That we conceive it will be for the Advantage of the Church, to invite as many to come in, as may consist with its Safety; and to remove such unnecessary Scruples as may offend or hinder others from the uniting with us.

That we conceive, that many Persons would renounce all Obligation of the Covenant upon themselves, are yet doubtful how far it may oblige other Persons, through a misguided Conscience, or invincible Ignorance: And we think ourselves sufficiently secured of such Persons as shall take the remaining Part of the Renunciation.

That we think it inconvenient to oblige any Person that hath never taken the Covenant, to inquire into it, which all those must necessarily do, who are obliged to renounce it; whereby the Memory of it will be continued; which is fitter to be buried in Oblivion.

We suppose your Lordships intend not to deprive any Person from the Benefit of this Act, but such as have revolted from the Church of England: And we cannot esteem any Persons to have been Members of the Church of England, but such as have both conformed to the Liturgy, and received the Sacrament.

Conference desired with Lords.

Ordered, That Mr. Herbert do go up to the Lords to desire a Conference upon the Amendments, sent from their Lordships, to the Bill for the Ease of Dissenters from the Church of England, in Matters of Religion.

Persons to attend.

Ordered, That the Persons which committed the Breach of Privilege against the Serjeant at Arms, do attend the Committee of Privileges, the First time of their Meeting after the Recess.

Conference agreed to.

Mr. Herbert reports, That the Lords had agreed to a present Conference with this House, in the Painted Chamber.

General Pardon.

Ordered, That Mr. Attorney General do return the Act for a General Pardon to the Lords.

Motion for printing Addresses.

A Motion being made, That an Address be made to his Majesty, that he would be pleased to give Order for the Printing the Addresses of this House concerning Grievances; and his Majesty's gracious Answer thereto;

And a Debate arising thereupon;

The Question being put, That the Debate be adjourned;

The House divided.

The Yeas go out.

Tellers,

And Mr. Speaker giving his Vote with the Yeas; it was resolved in the Affirmative.

And then the House adjourned till Three of the Clock in the Afternoon.

Post Meridiem.

Lords desire a Conference.

A MESSAGE from the Lords, by Sir William Beversham and Sir Edw. Low;

Selling Cattle.

Greenland; &c. Trades.

Mr. Speaker, We are, by Command of the Lords, to acquaint this House, That they desire a present Conference, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference in the Painted Chamber: And that their Lordships have agreed to the Bill for Repeal of a Clause in a former Act, to prohibit Salesmen from selling fat Cattle; to the Bill for his Majesty's Supply; and to the Bill for encouraging the Greenland and Eastland Trades; and for the better securing the Plantation Trade, without any Alteration.

The Messengers being called in, Mr. Speaker acquaints them, That the House had agreed to a present Conference in the Painted Chamber.

Conference on Protestant Dissenters Bill.

Sir Thomas Meeres reports from the Conference had with the Lords, upon the Amendments of this House, to the Amendments and Provisoes by them sent to the Bill for Ease of his Majesty's Subjects Dissenters from the Church of England; those Amendments which the Lords insist on; of those sent from them; and those they do agree in; with the Amendments from this House: Which he read; and delivered in at the Table.

The Lords insisting on their first Amendment;

The Question being put, That Candles be brought in;

The House divided.

The Yeas go out.

Tellers,

And so it passed in the Negative.

The Question being put, To agree with the Lords in their First Amendment;-

Message to attend the King.

A Message from the King, by Sir Edward Carteret, Usher of the Black Rod;

Mr. Speaker,

The King commands this honourable House to attend Him forthwith in his House of Peers.

And accordingly Mr. Speaker, with the House, went up to attend his Majesty.

Adjournment.

Mr. Speaker returning with the House, reported, That, in order to their Commands, he had attended his Majesty: And, after he had delivered the Bills, and what he had in Command from the House, his Majesty declared his Pleasure, That the Parliament should be adjourned to the Twentieth of October next:

And accordingly the House did adjourn to that Day.