House of Lords Journal Volume 12: 2 March 1671

DIE Jovis, 2 die Martii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

REX.

PRAYERS.

Shirley versus Hawles.

The Answer of Mr. Hawles to the Petition of Doctor Shirley was delivered in, of which the Plaintiff may have a Copy.

Booth's Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act to enable Henry Booth Esquire to settle his own and his Father's Estate."

Committees to meet.

The Committee for the Bill concerning Mr. Nevill Yelverton are to meet on Saturday next, in the Afternoon, at Three of the Clock.

The Committee for the Bill to export Beer and Ale is to meet To-morrow Morning, at Nine of the Clock.

The Committee for the Poor of London is to meet on Monday next, at Three of the Clock in the Afternoon.

Heads for a Conference on the Pet. to the King against the Growth of Popery.

The Earl of Essex reported, "That the Committee appointed Yesterday to meet, and consider what is fit to be offered at a Conference with the House of Commons, upon the Petition to be presented to His Majesty against the Growth of Popery, have met; and their Lordships do find, that this House hath agreed to Seven of the Ten Heads of the Causes of the Growth of Popery; and the Causes which are not agreed to are the 2, 3, and 10th.

"The Word ["Chapel"] in the 2d Cause is the Word excepted against, because their Lordships have no such certain Knowledge to guide their Judgements that there are any such Chapels employed to that Use; neither have they any certain Information that there are any great Towns in this Kingdom where Mass is said; neither do their Lordships know of any Fraternities or Convents of English Priests and Jesuits at Combe, in Herefordshire, as is alledged: Therefore their Lordships desire to be satisfied in Matter of Fact.

"As to the 10th Cause concerning Ireland, their Lordships think fit, that the Commons satisfy this House in the Matter of Fact.

"That the Committee do find, that in the Petition there are but Six Heads of Remedies; Four of which Remedies relate to Four of the Heads to which their Lordships have agreed; therefore the Committee thinks it fit this House should give some Resolution therein before the Conference.

"That their Lordships also do think it fit to acquaint the House (fn. 1), at the Conference, That this House agrees with the House of Commons, to have an Address made to His Majesty, upon the Substance of this Petition."

Then the House read the Remedies:

"1. That a Proclamation be issued out, to banish all Priests and Jesuits, &c." Which this House agrees to, excepting the Exception of Contract upon the Queen's Marriage, which is fit to be left out; and the Reasons given upon this Debate to be offered at the Conference.

"2. To restrain the Concourse of English People from hearing Mass in Ambassadors Houses, and at St. James.'" Agreed to.

"3. That Papists shall not have Offices, &c." Agreed to.

"4. That Officers in the Exchequer shall issue forth Process against Papists, according to the Law." Agreed to.

"5. That Fraternities, Convents, and Popish Schools erected, may be taken away." This is respited until after the Conference.

"6. That Plunkett and Peter Talbott may be brought into England, &c." That is respited till after the Conference, where their Lordships will desire to know what Evidence there is that Peter Talbott exercised his Function in England, as it is asserted by the House of Commons.

Message from H. C. with a Bill; and for a Conference on the Subsidy Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Seymour and others; who said, "That the Commons of England assembled in Parliament have commanded him to present to their Lordships a Bill, intituled, An Act for an additional Excise upon Beer, Ale, and other Liquors;" to which their Lordships Concurrence is desired.

Also to desire a Conference, concerning the Amendments in the Bill of Subsidy.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a Conference, as is desired; and doth appoint the same to be presently, in the Painted Chamber.

This Message from H. C. in an unusual Stile.

Upon a Message from the House of Commons this Day delivered at the Bar, this House taking Notice, that the Gentleman of the House of Commons, who delivered the Message, used these Words ["The Commons of England in Parliament assembled"] have, &c.":

It is ORDERED, That it is referred to the Lords Committees for Privileges, to consider, whether it be not an unusual Stile for Messages, contrary to former Precedents; and to report the same to this House: And the Committee to meet this Afternoon, at Four of the Clock.

These Lords following were appointed to report the intended Conference:

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference on the Subsidy Bill.

Then the Earl of Essex, with the Assistance of the other Lords, reported the Effect of the aforesaid Conference; which was, "That whereas their Lordships sent down the Bill for granting a Subsidy to His Majesty, with some Amendments, and adding certain Provisos, the Commons do agree with their Lordships in every Amendment and Proviso, excepting One; which is in the Second Proviso, the Clause concerning breaking open the Houses of Peers, for Not-payment of their Tax to be assessed upon them by this Bill; and the Commons hope their Lordships will not insist upon this Clause, for these Reasons:

"Because, they say, it is a Privilege demanded against the King, and in the Execution of a Duty to the King; and that it is not a Privilege in Point of Right; and they hope it will not be insisted upon in Point of Honour: That in this Bill the Peers have as much Privilege as ever any Peers had, because they have a Collector of their own, and a Saving of ancient Rights: That, in the Act for the Royal Aid, there is the same Clause in Terminis. They say, this Clause may elude the whole Duty, for no Commissioner is bound to attend. This being without Precedent, they desire it may not be in this Bill, the King's Necessities of the Crown being greater than ever."

ORDERED, That this House will take this Report into Consideration To-morrow Morning.

Additional Excise Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for an additional Excise upon Beer, Ale, and other Liquors."

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Veneris, tertium diem instantis Martii, hora decima Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.