House of Lords Journal Volume 12: 4 June 1675

DIE Veneris, 4 die Junii.

REX.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Sir J. Churchill, Porter, Pemberton, and Peck, Crispe's Counsel, seized by the Serjeant of H. C.

It was moved, "That this House would proceed to take into Consideration the great Breach of Privilege committed in Westminster Hall this Morning, whereof a Member of this House can give an Account."

Whereupon the Lord Lovelace said, "That, being in the Court of Chancery this Morning, he did see the Serjeant of the House of Commons come down into the Court of Chancery, and seize Sir John Churchill within the Bar, and Mr. Porter at the Bar: That they refused to go with him, and did read the Protection of the Lords: Notwithstanding that, he seized them; and would not suffer Mr. Porter to go on in a Cause that he was then pleading."

Several Persons, that were Eye-witnesses to the Matter of Fact, did deliver their Knowledge at the Bar upon Oath, as followeth:

Nathaniell Reading Esquire saith, "That he was present in the Court of Chancery, when the Serjeant at Arms attending the House of Commons, being accompanied with several of the Door Keepers of that House, and others, went into the said Court; and saw him lay his Hand upon Sir John Churchill, and demanded him to go along with him: Whereupon the said Sir John Churchill desired that he might not be taken out of the said Court, for that he was under the Protection of the House of Lords, and desired that the said Serjeant would hear the said Protection read; and some Part of the same was read by the said Sir John Churchill accordingly. But, notwithstanding the same, the said Serjeant took the said Sir John Churchill, and forced him to rise up. Whereupon the said Sir John Churchill, before his being carried away out of the Court, applied himself to the Honourable the Master of the Rolls, and said, "That he was very sorry to see that he was so carried away in the Face of that Court, where His Majesty was always taken to be personally present." And the said Sir John Churchill and Mr. Charles Porter (who read his Protection from the House of Lords to the said Serjeant likewise) were carried up, by the said Serjeant and several others who attended him, into the Lobby before the Door of the House of Commons, and were clapped up into the Little Room belonging to the said Serjeant; and the Door was shut upon them, and guarded by Cary, One of the Servants belonging to the said Serjeant."

And he further declared, "That going along with the said Serjeant, as he was carrying up his Prisoners, he said to him, "That he believed the House of Lords would ill resent what had been done by him; and that he believed the Gentleman Usher would be sent again to demand the Prisoners." And thereupon the said Serjeant declared to him, "That, in case the Black Rod came to demand the Prisoners, he would not deliver them."

And further he testified, "That he was present in the said Lobby when the Speaker of the House of Commons brought Mr. Serjeant Pemberton up with him, and heard the Speaker give Order to the Serjeant attending the House of Commons to secure Mr. Serjeant Pemberton; and the Door was forthwith locked up, and Mr. Serjeant Pemberton was presently after carried up into the Speaker's Chamber."

Next, Jasper Churchill Gentleman testified, "That he was at the Bar of the Court of Chancery, when the Serjeant at Arms attending the House of Commons, being accompanied with Sir Henry Ford and several other Members of the said House, and Mr. Goldsborough the Younger, Clerk of the said House, and several others of the Officers of the said House, did go into the said Court; and saw the said Serjeant take Sir John Churchill by the Hand, and bring him forth of the said Court; and some of the said Serjeant's Servants laid Hands on the said Sir John Churchill, and they carried him and Mr. Charles Porter into the Lobby of the House of Commons; and the said Mr. Goldsborough, and Cooper the Doorkeeper told him, That Thirty or Forty of the Members of the House of Commons went along with them."

Then this House being informed, "That Sir William Beversham and Sir Edward Lowe sat in the Chancery as Masters of the Chancery when this Fact was done;" they were sent for.

Who, being come, declared upon Oath their Knowledge in this Business.

Sir William Beversham testified, "That he did see the Serjeant of the House of Commons, with his Mace, come this Morning into the Court of Chancery, the Court then sitting, and the Master of the Rolls then sitting Judge, with Two Masters (whereof he was One); and the Serjeant did lay hold upon Sir John Churchill, then sitting within the Bar, and charged him to go along with him. Upon which Demand, Sir John Churchill pulled out of his Pocket a Paper, purporting a Protection of the Lords in Parliament (as he said), and read it to the Serjeant openly in the said Court: Yet, notwithstanding, the Serjeant pulled him up, and caused him to go along with him; who, before his going out of the Court, turned to the Bench, and declared, "That it was the First Time that any Person was taken out of that Court by any such Means," or used Words to that Effect; and was then led away by the Serjeant."

He said further, "That soon after, the same Serjeant came again, with his Mace, and took hold of Mr. Porter, then standing without the Bar of the Chancery, and demanded him to go along with him: To which the said Mr. Porter replied, "That he had a Protection from the Lords in Parliament," and openly shewed and read the same to the said Serjeant: Howbeit, the said Serjeant pulled him down by the Sleeve, and led him away."

He testified further, "That about Half a Quarter of an Hour after, the same Serjeant came again, with his Mace, into the Court of Chancery, and demanded Serjeant Pecke to go along with him; who made Answer, "That he had a Protection from the House of Lords," and shewed the same unto him: Yet, nevertheless, the said Serjeant took him out of the said Court, and led him away.

"That there was a great Multitude of People standing in and about the Court when the said Serjeant did carry the said Persons away; so as, by reason of such Interruption, the Court could not proceed in their Business for some Time."

Then Sir Edward Lowe, One of the Masters of the Chancery, declared upon Oath, "That he this Morning, about Ten of the Clock, sitting in the High Court of Chancery, did see and observe the Serjeant of the House of Commons, with his Mace, come into the said Court, and made towards Sir John Churchill, One of His Majesty's Counsel; and laying his Hand on him, the said Sir John Churchill told the Serjeant, "That he had the Protection of the House of Lords;" and, as he believes (he not being able, by reason of the Noise in and about the Court, and a Crowd of People then interposing, to hear distinctly), read the same: Which being done, the said Serjeant, being within the Court, reached over the Bar, and in like Manner laid his Hand on Mr. Charles Porter Counsellor of Law (at that Time either making or defending a Motion); who also declared he had the Lords Protection, and, taking it out of his Pocket, did very audibly read the same all over. After which, the Serjeant taking Sir John Churchill with him, the said Sir John, as he was going away through the Court, turning his Face towards the Bench, spake these, or Words to the like Effect; (videlicet,) "I am the First Man that ever after this Manner was taken out of this Court, where the King is, or is supposed to be, personally present." The said Serjeant then, going on the Outside of the Bar, took down the said Mr. Charles Porter from the Place wherein he stood, before the Motion was over wherein he was engaged."

He further said, "That whilst these Things as abovementioned were acting, the Business of the Court was somewhat interrupted.

"That the said Serjeant of the House of Commons, about Half a Quarter of an Hour after he had taken away Sir John Churchill and Mr. Charles Porter, he came a Second Time into the Court of Chancery, and there took into Custody Mr. Serjeant Pecke, One other of His Majesty's Counsel; but whether the said Mr. Serjeant Pecke did produce, read, or declare he had any Protection, he did not observe."

Then William Pecke Esquire, upon Oath, declared, "That he, being this Morning at the Bar of the Court of Chancery, did see One bearing a Mace (which was said to be the Mace of the House of Commons) come into the Court of Chancery, to Sir John Churchill; who publicly reading in the said Court a Writing, which he doth apprehend to be the Protection of the House of Lords, the said Sir John Churchill did soon after go along with the said Serjeant; and presently after the said Serjeant came to Mr. Charles Porter, and took him away from the said Court; and about Half a Quarter of an Hour after, the said Serjeant came to Mr. Serjeant Pecke, and took him also from the said Court."

He further said, "That, about One Hour before the Court of Chancery sat, he did see Mr. Serjeant Pemberton go along Part of Westm. Hall, with the Speaker, and the said Serjeant of the House of Commons; and did hold a Paper towards the said Speaker and Serjeant, which he doth believe was the Protection of the House of Lords."

Paul Bowes Esquire, upon his Oath, declared, "That he was this Morning at the Court of Chancery Bar, and did see One bearing a Mace (which was said to be the Mace of the House of Commons) come into the Court of Chancery, and did lay his Hand upon Sir John Churchill, then in the said Court; and said, "That he arrested him:" And thereupon the said Sir John Churchill did take out of his Pocket a Paper, which he declared to be the Protection of the House of Lords, and did read Part of the same openly, without Interruption; and then a Gentleman, who was affirmed to be One of the House of Commons, and followed the Serjeant who bare the said Mace, said, "Do not let him read it;" or used Words to that Effect. Notwithstanding which, the said Sir John Churchill did proceed in reading the said Protection; and afterwards the said Serjeant told him, "That (notwithstanding the said Protection) he must go with him;" or used Words to that Effect. And the said Sir John Churchill did then rise from his Seat, and went with the said Serjeant; and the said Serjeant did then also put forth his Hand to Mr. Charles Porter, and told him, "He arrested him:" And the said Mr. Porter did acquaint him, "That he had the Protection of the House of Lords;" and did openly read Part of the same; but, by reason of the Noise in the Court, he did not hear the same read out: But the Serjeant said, "He must go with him;" and then came to the Outside of the Bar, where the said Mr. Porter stood, and took him along with him; and about Half a Quarter of an Hour after, the said Serjeant came into the Court of Chancery again, with his Mace, and arrested Mr. Serjeant Peck, who told him, "He had the like Protection of the House of Lords;" and the said Serjeant did reply, "That he had the like Warrant against him;" or used Words to that Effect: And thereupon the said Mr. Serjeant Peck did go along with the Officer that bare the Mace."

Topham, Serjeant of H. C. to be attached, for seizing Crispe's Counsel.

The House hereupon ORDERED, That the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod attending this House do forthwith attach the Body of Serjeant Topham, at present attending the House of Commons, for having seized and taken into Custody Mr. Serjeant Peck, Sir John Churchill, Mr. Serjeant Pemberton, and Mr. Charles Porter, contrary to the Order and Protection of this House granted to them, and produced to him; and that the said Usher of the Black Rod is hereby authorized and required to demand the Persons of the said Serjeant Peck, Sir John Churchill, Serjeant Pemberton, and Mr. Porter, from what Person soever he shall find them to be in the Custody of, without paying Fees; and this shall be a sufficient Warrant in that Behalf.

To the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod attending this House, his Deputy and Deputies.

King to be addressed, to appoint a new Serjeant to H. C.

ORDERED, That an humble Address be made to His Majesty (by the Lord Treasurer, Lord Great Chamberlain, Lord Steward, Vicecomes Newport, and the Lord Maynard), from this House, to desire that His Majesty would be pleased to appoint another Serjeant to attend the House of Commons, in the Place of Serjeant Topham, whom the Lords have, for some great Offences, ordered to be taken into Custody by the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod.

Sir T. Monnis Petition for a Proviso in the Fishing Bill.

Upon reading the Petition of Sir Thomas Monnis Baronet; praying, "That His Majesty's Letters Patents, granted to him for the Office of Water-bailiff of the River of Seaverne, may not be prejudiced by a Bill depending in this House for Preservation of the Piscary in the Rivers of Seaverne, Avon, and Teame; and that a Proviso may be added to the said Bill for the saving of his Right therein:"

It is ORDERED, That the Consideration of the said Petition be, and is hereby, referred to the Lords Committees to whom the said Bill stands committed; whose Lordships are to meet thereupon To-morrow, at Three of the Clock in the Afternoon, in the Prince's Lodgings.

L. Widdrington, Privilege, Heron, &c. released.

Whereas John Heron Esquire, and Mr. Robinson an Attorney at Law, have been brought to the Bar of this House, for causing Mr. George Burall, menial Servant to the Lord Widdrington, to be arrested, and taken in Execution, in Time of Privilege, contrary to the Privilege of Parliament, and refusing to deliver him, being demanded by the Lord Widdrington, till his Lordship was forced to pay down the Principal, Interest, and Levy-money, into the Sheriff's Hands; and having acknowledged the Fact, and pleaded Ignorance of the Privilege, humbly begged the Pardon of this House and the Lord Widdrington:

It is ORDERED (the Lord Widdrington interceding on their Behalf), That the said John Heron and Mr. Robinson be, and are hereby, discharged from any further Restraint for their said Offence, paying their Fees; and this shall be a sufficient Warrant on that Behalf.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in post meridiem hujus instantis diei, hora quarta, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Post meridiem.

REX.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

No Business to be proceeded in, except recommended from the King, till the Privileges of this House are vindicated.

A Question was propounded:

"Whether this House will proceed upon no other Business, except what shall be recommended by His Majesty, till they have received full Satisfaction, and vindicated themselves in this Breach of their Privileges?"

The Question being put, "Whether this Question shall be put?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Then, instead of putting the Question, it was ORDERED, That this House will proceed upon no other Business (except what shall be recommended by His Majesty), till they have received full Satisfaction, and vindicated themselves in this Breach of their Privileges.

Then the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod gave the House an Account of what was committed to his Care, as followeth:

Lieut. of The Tower refuses to deliver Sir J. Churchill, Peck, & al. Crispe's Counsel, to the Black Rod.

"My Lords,

"In Pursuance of your Lordships Order committed to my Charge, I enquired where Serjeant Peck, Sir John Churchill, Serjeant Pemberton, and Mr. Porter, were gone; and being informed that they were sent by Water through Sir John Cotton's Garden to The Tower, I took a Pair of Oars, and so I went to The Tower, and went to the Lodging of the Lieutenant of The Tower, and so went up Stairs; and in a great Room I found the said Lieutenant, and in the said Room were Serjeant Peck, Sir John Churchill, Serjeant Pemberton, and Mr. Porter: And so, taking my Black Rod in one Hand, and the Lords Warrant in the other, I did address myself to the said Lieutenant, and told him, "That I was commanded, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, to demand the Persons of Mr. Serjeant Peck, Sir John Churchill, Mr. Serjeant Pemberton, and Mr. Porter: I did, therefore, in the Name of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and by the Authority of the Black Rod, command him to deliver me the aforenamed Persons." He did after demand to see my Warrant: I did shew it him; and he would have shewed me his, but I would not look upon it, but demanded his Answer: And he told me, "That they were committed by Order of the Commons, and that he could not release them without their Order; and if the Lords did commit any to him, he could not release them without their Lordships Order."

Topham, Serjeant of H. C. not to be found.

"My Lords,

"I did likewise endeavour to take Serjeant Topham, according to your Lordships Order and Command; but was informed that he kept himself up with Mr. Speaker, in the Speaker's Chamber, so that I could not come at him."

King's Answer to Address, about appointing a new Serjeant to H. C.

The Lord Treasurer reported, "That the Lords appointed to present the humble Address of this House to His Majesty, for appointing a new Serjeant at Arms to attend the House of Commons in the Place of Serjeant Topham, have attended His Majesty with the said Address; who returns this Answer: That His Majesty had given Order for sending a new Serjeant to attend the House of Commons, before the Address was presented to Him."

Thanks to the King.

ORDERED, That the Lord Treasurer, the Lord Great Chamberlain, Lord Steward, Vicecomes Newport, and the Lord Maynard, do present the humble Thanks of this House to His Majesty, for appointing a new Serjeant at Arms to attend the House of Commons, in Place of Serjeant Topham.

Address to the King, to remove the Lieut. of The Tower, for refusing to deliver Sir J. Churchill & al. Crispe's Counsel.

ORDERED, That the humble Address of this House be presented to His Majesty, by the Lord Treasurer, Lord Great Chamberlain, Lord Steward, Vicecomes Newport, and Lord Maynard; shewing, "That whereas this House directed the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod to demand the Persons of Serjeant Peck, Sir John Churchill, Serjeant Pemberton, and Mr. Charles Porter, of what Person soever he should find them in the Custody of; and, in Pursuance of that Direction, finding them to be committed Prisoners to The Tower of London by Order of the House of Commons, repaired to Sir John Robinson, His Majesty's Lieutenant of The Tower, and demanded them of him, who refused to deliver them otherwise than by Order of the House of Commons: This House humbly desires His Majesty, that He will be pleased to remove the said Sir John Robinson from that Trust, and to appoint some other Person to be His Lieutenant of The Tower."

King's Answer.

The Lord Treasurer reported, "That he and the rest of the Lords have presented the humble Address of this House to His Majesty, for removing Sir John Robinson from his Trust of being Lieutenant of The Tower; and His Majesty says, He will return an Answer thereunto at the First Sitting of the House To-morrow."

Message from H. C. with Bills.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Sawyer and others; which consisted of these Particulars:

1. "An Act for Preservation of the Liberty of the King's Subjects;" to which their Lordships Concurrence is desired.

2. To put their Lordships in Mind of a Bill formerly brought up, to prevent illegal Imprisonment of the Subject.

Message from thence, for a Conference.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Henry Capell, &c.

To desire a Conference, upon the Matter delivered by their Lordships at the last Conference.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That the Lords have considered their Message, and will return an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Sabbati, quintum diem instantis (fn. 1)