House of Lords Journal Volume 20: 27 June 1717

DIE Jovis, 27 Junii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Messages from H. C. with Bills; and to return Dashwood's Bill, and the Bill for explaining the Game Laws.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Comptroller and others:

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for enabling His Majesty to grant Relief to the Wives of the forfeiting Persons; and for Relief of the Creditors on the said forfeited Estates; and for the effectual bringing the Rents and Profits of the said Forfeitures into the Exchequer;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Farrer and others:

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for redeeming several Funds of the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, pursuant to former Provisos of Redemption; and for securing to them several new Funds and Allowances redeemable by Parliament; and for obliging them to advance further Sums, not exceeding Two Millions Five Hundred Thousand Pounds, at Five Pounds per Cent. per Annum, as shall be found necessary, to be employed in lessening the National Debts and Incumbrances; and for continuing certain Provisions formerly made, for the Expences of His Majesty's Civil Government; and for Payment of Annuities formerly purchased at the Rate of Five Pounds per Cent. per Annum; and for other Purposes in this Act mentioned;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Hampden and others:

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for explaining and making more effectual the Acts of the Fifth and Eighth Years of Her late Majesty Queen Anne, for amending the Road between Hockley in the County of Bedford, and Stoney Stratford in the County of Bucks;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

A Message from the House of Commons, by the Lord William Powlet and others:

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act for confirming a Partition made between Robert Dashwood Esquire and Cholmley Turner Esquire, of certain Manors, Lands, and Hereditaments, in the County of Oxon;" and to acquaint this House, that they have agreed to the same, without any Amendment.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Hungerford and others:

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for raising and paying the Lady Amelia Butler's Portion, out of Lands in Ireland;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Grantham and others:

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act to explain and amend several Laws therein mentioned, for the better Preservation of the Game;" and to acquaint this House, that they have agreed to their Lordships Amendment made thereto.

Message from thence, for a Conference in relation to Proceedings in the Prosecution of Impeachments.

A Message from the House of Commons, by the Lord Morpeth and others:

To desire a Conference with this House, in relation to Proceedings in the Prosecutions of Impeachments.

To which the House agreed.

Answer.

And the Commons were called in; and told, "That the Lords do agree to a Conference, as is desired; and appoint it presently, in the Painted Chamber."

Managers.

Then the Lords following were named Managers of the Conference; (videlicet,)

Message from H. C. to return Middleton's Bill.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Yonge and others:

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act for Sale of the Estate of Thomas Middleton Esquire, deceased, for the more speedy raising of Maintenance monies, and Portions for his Daughters; and for other Purposes therein mentioned;" and to acquaint this House, that they have agreed to the same, without any Amendment.

Wife of the late E. of Panmure, Bill.

The Earl of Clarendon reported from the Committee, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act to enable His Majesty to make such Provision for, and Settlement upon, Magaret the Wife of James late Earl of Panmure, as she would have been entitled to in case her said Husband was naturally dead," was committed: That they had gone through the said Bill; and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

Conference in relation to Proceedings in the Prosecutions of Impeachments, reported.

The House being informed, "That the Commons were ready for the Conference, in the Painted Chamber:"

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference.

Which being ended, the House was resumed.

And the Lord Privy Seal reported, "That they had been at the Conference; and met Mr. Carter and other Managers for the Commons; who delivered to their Lordships a Paper, as follows:

"The Commons, having taken into their Consideration your Lordships Resolution communicated to their Managers, relating to the Proceedings on the Trial of Robert Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer, and being desirous, as far as in them lies, to maintain a good Correspondence with your Lordships, have desired this Conference; and have commanded us to acquaint your Lordships, That they conceive it to be the undoubted Right of the Commons, to impeach a Peer, either for High Treason, or for high Crimes and Misdemeanors; or, if they see Occasion, to mix both the one and the other in the same Accusation.

"The Impeachment preferred against Robert Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer is one continued Accusation, consisting of high Crimes and Misdemeanors, and also of Charges of High Treason. The Facts, on which the Articles preceding those of High Treason are grounded, are laid together in Order of Time, and follow one another successively, in the Manner they were committed.

"As the Commons thought this the most natural Method for exhibiting the several Articles against the said Earl; they were of Opinion, that they should proceed in the Proof of those several Facts after the same Method; since it is manifest, that, in laying open the Course of such a wicked Administration, the preceding Parts of it give Light to those which follow; and that the Proof of several of the Articles of high Crimes and Misdemeanors would naturally lead to the Proof of those of High Treason.

"Your Lordships received these several Articles of Impeachment, without making any Exception against the Form in which they were exhibited. The said Earl made his Answer to them in the same Order, and has no where insisted to be tried in any other Method. So that the Commons are surprized to find a Stop put to their Prosecution, by an Objection which has never been started by the said Earl, and which your Lordships had given them so little Reason to expect.

"To this must be added, that, as the Commons only are Masters of the Evidence, and as upon that Account they are best able to determine what to charge first, and what next; so they are most proper to determine in what Method to proceed for the Advantage of the Prosecution, in the Event of which all the Commons of Great Britain are so highly concerned.

"To which they further add, that they see no Reason but that your Lordships may as well invert the whole Order of the Articles, as prescribe to the Commons those particular Articles on which they are first to proceed; which will necessarily produce such a Confusion both in the Facts and Evidence, as is by no Means consistent with that Clearness and Perspicuity in which the Commons think this Affair ought to appear.

"The Commons, upon examining Precedents, do find divers Precedents of Impeachments for High Treason and other high Crimes and Misdemeanors in the same Accusation; and do not find that the Lords ever objected to such Proceeding; or ever gave Judgement upon any particular Article of an Impeachment, before the Commons had gone through and concluded their Evidence upon all the Articles, or so many of them as they thought fit: And the Commons are at a Loss to conceive what Arguments or Precedents can be brought to support the Resolution of your Lordships, to give Judgement upon one Part of the same Accusation, reserving the other Part for a subsequent Trial; as they are to know, what your Lordships mean, by admitting the Commons to proceed upon the Articles of high Crimes and Misdemeanors, after the Judgement is given upon the Articles for High Treason supposing the Judgement proper for High Treason should be given against the said Earl.

"For these Reasons, the Commons assert it as their undoubted Right, to proceed on the Trial of Robert Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer, after the Method in which their Managers were proceeding when interrupted by your Lordships Resolution."

House to be cleared.

Notice being taken, "That divers Persons were in the House, who had no Right so to be:"

They were thereupon directed immediately to withdraw.

Which some of them neglecting or refusing to do:

Ordered, That the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod do forthwith take into his Custody such Persons who are now in the House contrary to their Lordships Orders.

Ordered also, That the Door-keepers and other Officers attending this House do acquaint the House with the Names of such Lords as shall command or oblige them to admit any Persons into the House, in Breach of their Lordships Orders.

Lords insist on their former Resolution, for the Commons not to proceed on the other Articles, till Judgement is given on those for Treason:

The Reasons delivered by the Commons, at the Conference, were read by the Clerk.

And, after Debate, and reading the Resolution of this House, communicated to the Commons on Monday last; videlicet,

"That the Commons be not admitted to proceed, in order to make good the Articles against Robert Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer for high Crimes and Misdemeanors, till Judgement be first given on the Articles for High Treason:"

The Question was put, "Whether to insist on the said Resolution?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Then it being proposed, "That a Committee be appointed, to prepare what is to be offered to the Commons, at a Conference, in communicating to them the Resolution for insisting."

And a Question being stated thereupon;

Committee to prepare Reasons to be offered at Conference, in Maintenance of it.

It was moved, "To add these Words to the said Question; videlicet, ["and also to prepare such Reasons as shall be thought proper to be then used in Maintenance thereof"]."

And after Debate;

The Question was put, "Whether those Words shall be added to the said Question?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Resolved, upon the Question, and Ordered, That a Committee be appointed, to prepare what is to be offered to the Commons, at a Conference, in communicating to them the Resolution of this House, for insisting on their Lordships Resolution abovementioned; and also to prepare such Reasons as shall be thought proper to be then used in Maintenance thereof.

Ordered, That all the Lords present be the said Committee.

Then it being proposed, "That the Committee meet immediately;"

And the same being objected to:

The Question was put, "Whether the Committee shall withdraw, and sit immediately?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Ordered, That the said Committee, or any Seven of them, meet To-morrow, at Ten a Clock in the Forenoon, in the Prince's Lodgings near the House of Peers; and to adjourn as they please.

E. of Oxford remanded.

Ordered, That the Lieutenant of The Tower of London, or, in his Absence, the Deputy Lieutenant of the same, do take back Robert Earl of Oxford and Earl Mortimer to the said Tower; and that the said Lieutenant thereof do bring the said Earl to the Bar of this House in Westm'r Hall, on Saturday next, at Eleven a Clock in the Forenoon, in order to proceed further on the Trial of the said Earl.

To the Constable of His Majesty's Tower of London; and, in his Absence, to the Lieutenant or Deputy Lieutenant of the same.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Veneris, vicesimum octavum diem instantis Junii, hora undecima Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.