House of Lords Journal Volume 20: 11 March 1718

DIE Martis, 11 Martii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

East India Company versus Ekins:

The House (according to Order) resumed the adjourned Debate which arose Yesterday, on the Proposition then made, of reading the Petition and Appeal of the United Company of Merchants of England trading to The East Indies; complaining of several Orders made in the Court of Chancery, the 11th of November 1715, the 9th of March 1716, and 24th of January last, in a Cause wherein Thomas Ekins was Plaintiff, and the Appellants Defendants.

And the Standing Order of this House, limiting the Time for receiving Appeals, being read; and a Person examined at the Bar, upon Oath, as to the Time of entering the last Order complained of:

And thereupon the said Appeal being read:

Chancery to proceed.

It is Ordered, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Thomas Ekins may have a Copy thereof; and shall and is hereby required to put in his Answer thereunto, in Writing, on or before Tuesday the Twenty-fifth Day of this Instant March: But, in regard the said Appeal is brought so late in the Session, the said Court of Chancery may proceed, notwithstanding its being depending in this House.

Dover Harbour Bill.

Whereas this Day was appointed, for the Second Reading of the Bill relating to the Repair of Dover Harbour:

It is Ordered, That the said Bill be read a Second Time To-morrow; and that Counsel may be then heard, at the Bar of this House, as well for as against the same, pursuant to their Lordships former Order.

Accompts, Dover Harbour, delivered:

The House being informed, "That a Person attended, with Accompts and Papers in relation to the said Harbour:"

He was called in.

And Mr. Veal delivered, at the Bar, a Book, and several Papers, pursuant to the Order of this House of Friday last.

And he, being sworn and examined, acquainted the House, "That the Accompts of the old Rents at Dover are not in Town; but that they amount to about £. 260. per Annum; and that Mr. Stratford, the Receiver of them, who came to Town this Morning, he believes, has brought a Copy of them."

And then he withdrew.

And the Titles of the said Book and Papers were read, as follow:

"Treasurer of Dover Harbour's Cash Book, 1700.

"1. Expence on Dover Harbour, from 1st May 1701 to 30th April 1702, amounting to £. 3169. 8s. 10d.

"2. Expences on making the Harbour at Dover, between 1st May 1705, 29th April 1706, £. 1671. 18s. 11½d.

"3. Expences on making the Harbour at Dover between 1st May 1706, 30th April 1707, £. 1355. 9s. 6¾d.

"4. Expences on making the Harbour at Dover, between 1st May 1707, 30th April 1708. £. 1495. 1s. 9d.

"5. Expences on making the Harbour at Dover, between 1st May 1708, 30th April 1709, £. 1037. 3s. 7d.

"6. Expences on making the Harbour at Dover, between 1st May 1709, 30th April 1710, £. 948. 13s. 7d.

"7. Accompt of the Expences on the making of Dover Harbour, between the 14th of May 1712 and 30th of April 1713, amounting to £. 839. 19s. 11d.

"8. Accompt of the Expences on the making of Dover Harbour, between the 4th of May 1713 and 13th of April 1714, amounting to £. 997. 4 s. 7½ d.

"9. Abstract of the Expences on the making of Dover Harbour, between the 1st of May 1714 and 30th of April 1715, amounting to £. 1202. 11s. 4 d.

"10. St. Thomas, 1717. Treasurer of Dover Harbour's Accompt, from the 1st of May 1716 to the 30th of April 1717, amounting to £. 1702. 18 s. 8½ d."

Ordered, That the said Accompts do lie on the Table.

Other Accompts ordered.

Ordered, That the said Mr. Stratford do lay before this House the Accompts of the other Revenues for the Repair of the said Harbour.

Robbery; &c. to prevent, Bill.

The Earl of Clarendon (according to Order) reported from the Lords Committees to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the further preventing Robbery, Burglary, and other Felonies; and the more effectual Transportation of Felons and unlawful Exporters of Wool," was committed, the Amendments made by the Committee to the said Bill, as follows:

"2 Press. 16 Line. Leave out from ["convicted"] to ["and"] in the 41st Line of the same Press; and insert ["or do now stand attainted of any Offences whatsoever, for which Death by Law ought to be inflicted; or where any Offenders shall hereafter be convicted of any Crimes whatsoever, for which they are by Law to be excluded the Benefit of Clergy"]; and in the same 41st Line, after the Word ["and"] leave out ["where"].

"3 Pr. 3L. Leave out ["in case"], and insert ["and"].

"4 Pr. 38 L. Leave out from ["Assigns"] to ["and"], in the 10th Line of the 5th Press."

"5th Pr. 21 L. After ["Money"], insert ["or Reward"].

"23 L. Leave out ["so as"], and insert ["and cause"]; and after the Words ["such Felon"], insert ["to."].

"24 L. After ["same"], insert ["and give Evidence against him"].

"6 Pr. 2 L. After ["more"], insert ["and under the Age of Twenty-one"].

"37 L. Leave out ["left against him"], and insert ["delivered to such Person or Persons, or to the Gaoler, Keeper, or Turnkey of the Prison"].

"41 L. After ["Default"], leave out ["or a"].

"42 L. After ["Verdict"], insert ["or otherwise"].

"7 Pr. 12 L. Before ["and"], add Clauses marked (A.) and (B).

"(A.) And be it hereby Declared, That all and every Person and Persons, who have committed, or shall commit, any Offence or Offences, for which they ought to be adjudged, deemed, and taken, to be Pirates, Felons, or Robbers, by an Act made in the Parliament holden in the Eleventh and Twelfth Years of the Reign of His late Majesty King William the Third, intituled, "An Act for the more effectual Suppression of Piracy," may be tried and judged, for every such Offence, in such Manner and Form as in and by an Act made in the Twenty-eighth Year of the Reign of King Henry the Eighth is directed and appointed for the Trial of Pirates; and shall and ought to be utterly debarred and excluded from the Benefit of Clergy for the said Offences; any Law or Statute to the contrary thereof in any Wise notwithstanding."

"(B). And be it further Enacted, by the Authority aforesaid, That if any Person or Persons, having been before convicted of any of the Offences herein aftermentioned, not being qualified by Law to keep a Dog or Gun, shall, from and after the Twenty fifth Day of March One Thousand Seven Hundred and Eighteen, unlawfully course, hunt, take in Toyls, kill, wound, or take away, any Red or Fallow Deer, in any Forest, Chace, Purlieu, Paddock, Wood, Park, or other Ground enclosed, where Deer are, have, or shall be usually kept, within the Realm of England or Dominion of Wales, without the Consent of the Owner or Person chiefly entrusted with the Custody thereof, or shall be aiding or assisting therein; that then it shall and may be lawful to prosecute every such Offender according to the Laws now in being, or to prefer an Indictment against such Offender in His Majesty's Court of King's Bench, or at the Assizes or General Gaol Delivery for the County where such Offence shall be committed, or at the Quarter Sessions of the Peace to be holden for the said County; and any such Person or Persons, being so indicted, and lawfully convicted of such Offence, shall be transported, by the Judgement of the said Court before whom such Offender shall be convicted, for the Term of Seven Years, in the same Manner as the Felons aforementioned in this Act are directed to be transported, and be liable to the same Penalties, Orders, and Directions, as such Felons are subject to by this Act; any Law or Statute relating to such Offences notwithstanding."

In the Title of the Bill:

"2d Line. After the Second ["and"], insert ["for"].

"4 Line. After ["Felons"], insert ["Deerstealers"].

"At the End of the Title add ["and for declaring the Law upon some Points relating to Pirates"].

Which said Amendments, except those to the Title of the Bill, were read Twice by the Clerk, and severally agreed.

And the Two following Amendments were also made by the House to the Bill; (videlicet,)

"2 Press. 1st Line. After ["Authority"], insert ["if they think fit"].

"6 Press. 42 L. Leave out the Words ["against him or them"].

Then a Proviso was offered, to be added to the Bill, "That the same shall not extend to that Part of Great Britain called Scotland."

And a Debate arising thereupon:

Ordered, That the said Debate be adjourned till To-morrow Morning.

Forfeited Estates, Bill:

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for vesting the forfeited Estates in Great Britain and Ireland in Trustees, to be sold, for the Use of the Public; and for giving Relief to lawful Creditors, by determining the Claims; and for the more effectual bringing into the respective Exchequers the Rents and Profits of the said Estates, till sold."

Then, after long Debate thereupon:

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Protest against it:

"Dissentient,

"1. Because we humbly conceive, that the Charges of this Commission are a very great and unnecessary Burthen on the Public, and will swallow up a great Part of that Fund the Commissioners are appointed to be Guardians of; whereas the Ends of that Trust which is lodged in them by this Bill might have been more easily, more justly, and with less Expence, attained by the known and ordinary Course of the Law.

"2. Because there is erected in this Bill a Court of Judicature, with strange and new Powers; videlicet, in a summary Way, and without the Formality of Proceedings in the Courts of Law or Equity, "to proceed by and upon the Testimony of Witnesses upon Oath, Examination of Persons claiming, or otherwise interested, upon their Oaths, Inspection, and Examination of Deeds, Writings, and Records; and by all or any of the said Ways and Means, or otherwise, according to the Circumstances of the Case, or of the Persons claiming, as soon as conveniently may be, to hear, determine, and adjudge, all and every Claim and Claims;" which Words seem to contain the most arbitrary and unlimited Authority that can possibly be created; and in particular the Expression concerning the Circumstances of the Persons is not only unknown to our Laws, but prescribes a Rule which was never yet thought to be a proper Ingredient in the impartial Administration of Justice.

"3. Because there is in this Bill a Penalty laid on the Witnesses who shall forswear themselves to support any Claim; but no Punishment inflicted on those who shall make false Oaths in order to defeat any just Demand.

"4. Because there is nothing in this Bill which incapacitates the Commissioners, or any in Trust for them, to purchase Claims on the forfeited Estates; and yet, in case they should make such Purchases, they will become both Judges and Parties in the same Cause, and consequently be exposed to Temptations of a great and dangerous Nature.

"5. Because the reversing and making void all Acts and Decrees of any Court of Judicature, passed since the 14th June 1715, concerning any Right, Charge, or Interest, out of any of the forfeited Estates, and the not saving to all Creditors and other Claimants such Right as they had before the passing this Bill, does greatly endanger, if not totally make void, the just Demands of such Creditors or other Claimants, which they have not only, in many Cases, a Right to by the ancient Laws of their Country; but which are secured to them (at least in that Part of Great Britain called Scotland) by the Faith of an Act of Parliament, as a future Reward of their dutiful and loyal Behaviour to His Majesty and His Government, when the Nation was threatened with the greatest Dangers; which Reward has been confirmed to them by a subsequent Act.

"6. Because the Time of entering Claims on Estates forfeited, or to be forfeited before the 24th Day of June 1718, is allowed no farther than to the First of June in the said Year; whereby all Creditors, Claimants, and bona Fide Purchasers of Estates, which may be forfeited between the First and Twenty-fourth Day of June aforesaid, are absolutely and expressly barred and excluded.

"7. Because the setting up a new Court of Judicature for Claims on forfeited Estates, in any Part of Great Britain, is wholly unprecedented; and the Privileges and Jurisdiction of this House are thereby diminished and endangered; but much more so by the reversing Decrees of Courts of Judicature already made; which, whether they are erroneous or legal, ought (as the Constitution of this Kingdom now is and hath hitherto been) to be reviewed, reversed, or affirmed, by no other Jurisdiction whatsoever, but that which is inherent in the House of Lords.

"8. Because the Court of Session is, by this Bill, discharged from exercising their lawful Jurisdiction, notwithstanding that the Foundation of the Constitution of the United Kingdom of Great Britain is the Articles of the Union; wherein it is expressly stipulated, "That the Court of Session shall remain, in all Time coming, as it was then constituted, with the same Authority and Privileges as before the Union:" And though the said Court was subjected to Regulation, for the better Administration of Justice; yet the Jurisdiction of it was in no Case to be totally extinguished.

"9. Because the erecting new Jurisdictions, with such indefinite Powers, exclusive of the House of Lords; the making void or endangering the Rights of great Numbers of lawful Creditors, or other Claimants, secured to them by the Laws; and the depriving the Courts of Justice of their Judicature, as aforesaid; we humbly apprehend, cannot but raise the highest Discontents in the Minds of His Majesty's Subjects.

"Buckingham.
"Geo. Bristol.
"Northampton.
"Plimouth.
"Fr. Roffen.
"Greenwich.
Belhaven.
"Litchfield.
"Guilford.
"Stafford.
Compton.
"Willoughby de Broke.
"North & Grey.
"Foley.
I'lay.
Montjoy.
"Boyle.
De Loraine.
"Oxford.
"Poulett.
Weston.
"Tadcaster.
"Bathurst.
"Mansel.
Masham.
Trevor."

Message to H. C. that the Lords have agreed to the Bill.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Rogers and Mr. Holford:

To acquaint them, that the Lords have agreed to the last mentioned Bill, without any Amendment.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Mercurii, duodecimum diem instantis Martii, hora undecima Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.