Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 4, 1629-42. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.
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DIE Veneris, videlicet, 1 die Aprilis.
E. of Peterborough delivered in his Commission for Northampton.
This Day the Earl of Peterborough delivered in his Commission of Lieutenancy for the County of North'ton.
Abp. of Cant. presents Names to be presented to Livings.
The Petition of the Archbishop of Canterbury was read; shewing, "That there (fn. 1) are some Benefices now void, which are in his bestowing; but, in Obedience to their Lordships Order, he hath presented the Names of such Persons as he conceives to be deserving Men for those Places, and desires their Lordships Approbation of them before he presents:
"The Names of the Persons are these: videlicet, Mr. Richard Howlet, to the Rectory of Lachinden; Dr. Gawdine to the Rectory of Berkinge, in Essex; Mr. Christopher Newstead, to the Rectory of Stisted."
Dr. Gawdine approved.
Other Persons respited.
The House taking this Petition into Consideration; Ordered, That this House doth approve of Dr. Gawdine, to be presented to the Rectory of Berking, in the County of Essex; and that the Archbishop of Canterbury do present him accordingly; and for the other Two Persons mentioned in the aforesaid Petition, this House will take a few Days to consider of it.
Report of the Conference concerning the King's Message.
Next, the Lord Keeper reported the Effect of the Conference with the House of Commons Yesterday; which was, "That the House of Commons have received an Answer from the King to the late Message of both Houses to His Majesty; which they conceive to be of that great Importance as they thought it fit to communicate it to their Lordships."
The King's Answer was read, in hæc verba: videlicet,
The King's Answer to the last Message of both Houses.
"If you would have had the Patience to have expected Our Answer to your last Declaration (which, considering the Nature of it, hath not been long in coming), We believe you would have saved yourselves the Labour of saying much of this Message; and We could with that Our Privileges on all Parts were so stated, that this Way of Correspondency might be preserved with that Freedom which hath been used of old; for We must tell you, that, if you may ask any Thing of Us by Message or Petition, and in what Language (how usual soever) you think sit, and We must neither deny the Thing you ask, nor give a Reason why We cannot grant it, without being taxed of breaking your Privileges, or being counseled by those who are Enemies to the Peace of the Kingdom, and Favourers of the Irish Rebellion (for We have seen your Printed Votes upon Our Message from Huntingdon); you will reduce all Our Answers hereafter into a very little Room. In plain English, it is to take away the Freedom of Our Vote, which (were We but a Subject) were high Injustice; but being your King, We leave all the World to judge what it is.
" (fn. 2) Is this the Way to compose all Misunderstandings? We thought We shewed you one by Our Message of the 20th of January: If you have a better or readier, We shall willingly hearken to it; for hitherto you have shewed Us none. But why the Refusal to consent to your Order (which you call a Denial of the Militia) should be any Interruption to it, We cannot understand; for the Militia (which We always thought necessary to be settled), We never denied the Thing, as We told you in Our Answer of the 28th of January, to the Petition of the House of Commons; for We accepted the Persons (except for Corporations): We only denied the Way. You ask it by Way of Ordinance; and with such a Preface, as We can neither with Justice to Our Honour or Innocency consent to it: You exclude Us from any Power in the Disposition or Execution of it together with you; and for a Time utterly unlimited. We tell you, We would have the Thing done, allow the Persons (with that Exception); We desire a Bill, the only good old Way of imposing on Our Subjects. We are extremely unsatisfied what an Ordinance is; but well satisfied that, without Our Consent, it is nothing, not binding; and it is evident, by the long Time spent in this Argument, the Necessity and Danger was not so imminent, but a Bill might have well been prepared; which if it shall yet be done, with that due Regard to Us, and Care of Our People, in the Limitation of the Power and other Circumstances, We shall recede from nothing We formerly expressed in that Answer to your Order; (fn. 3) otherwise We must declare to all the World, that We are nothing satisfied with, or ever shall allow Our Subjects to be bound by, your Printed Votes of the 15th or 16th of this Month; or that, under Pretence of declaring what the Law of the Land is, you shall (without Us) make a new Law, which is plainly the Case of the Militia; and what is this, but to introduce an arbitrary Way of Government?
"Concerning Pym's Speech, you will have sound, by what the Lord Compton and Mr. Baynton brought from Us in Answer to that Message they brought to Us, that as yet We rest nothing satisfied in that Particular.
"As for the seditions Pamphlets and Sermons, We are both sorry and ashamed, in so great a Variety, and in which Our Rights, and Honour, and Authority, are so insolently slighted and vilified, and in which the Dignity and Freedom of Parliament is so much invaded and violated; if it should be asked of Us to name any, the mentioning of The Protestation protested, The Prentices Protestation, To your Tents O Israell, or any other, would be too great an Excuse for the rest: If you think them not worthy the Enquiry, We have done. But We think it most strange to be told, that Our Denial of a Guard (which We yet never denied, but granted in another Manner, and under a Command at that Time most accustomed in the Kingdom), or the Denial of any Thing else (which is in Our Power legally to deny), which in Our Understanding (of which God hath surely given Us some Use) is not sit to be granted, should be any Excuse for so dangerous Concourse of People, which, not only in Our Apprehension, but We believe in the Interpretation of Law itself, hath been always held most tumultuous and seditious: And We must wonder what and whence comes the Instructions and Informations that those People have, who can so easily think themselves so obliged by the Protestation to assemble in such a Manner for the Defence of Privileges, which cannot be so clearly known to any of them; and so negligently pass over the Consideration and Defence of Our Rights (so beneficial and necessary for themselves, and scarce unknown to any of them), which, by their Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy (and even by the same Protestaion), they are at least equally obliged to defend; and what Interruptions such Kind of Assemblies may be to the Freedom of future Parliaments (if not seasonably discountenanced and suppressed), We must advise you to consider; as likewise whether both Our Powers may not, by such Means, be usurped by Hands not trusted by the Constitution of this Kingdom.
"For Our Guard, We refer you to Our Answer to your Declaration.
"By that Question of violating your Laws, by which We endeavoured to express Our Care and Resolution to observe them; We did not expect you would have been invited to have looked back so many Years, for which you have had so ample Reparation; neither look We to be reproached with the Actions of Our Ministers then against the Laws, whilst We express so great a Zeal for the present Defence of them; it being Our Resolution (upon Observation of the Mischief which then grew by arbitrary Power, though made plausible to Us by the Suggestions of Necessity and imminent Danger; and take Heed you fall not into the same Error upon the same Suggestions) hereafter to keep the Rules Ourself, and to Our Power require the same from all others; but, above all, We must be most sensible of what you cast upon Us, for Requital of those good Bills you cannot deny. We have denied any such Design; and, as God Almighty must judge in that Point between us, who knows Our upright Intentions at the passing those Laws; so, in the mean Time, We defy the Devil to prove that there was any Design (with Our Knowledge or Privity) in or about the Time of passing those Bills, that, had it taken Effect, could have deprived Our Subjects of the Fruit of them: And therefore We demand full Reparation in this Point, that We may be cleared in the Sight of all the World, and chiefly in the Eyes of Our loving Subjects from so notorious and false an Imputation as this is.
"We are far from denying what you have done; for We acknowledge the Charge Our People have sustained, in keeping the Two Armies, and in relieving Ireland; of which We are so sensible, that, in regard of those great Burthens Our People have undergone, We have and do patiently suffer those extreme Personal Wants as Our Predecessors have been seldom put to, rather than We would press upon them, which We hope in Time will be considered on your Parts.
"In Our Offer of a General Pardon, Our Intent was, to compose and secure the general Condition of Our Subjects; conceiving that, in these Times of great Diftractions, the good Laws of the Land have not been enough observed: But it is a strange World, when Princes proffered Favours are counted Reproaches; yet, if you like not this Our Offer, We have done.
"Concerning any Discourses of Foreign Forces (tho' We have given you a full Answer in Ours to your last Declaration), yet We must tell you, We have neither so ill an Opinion of Our own Merit, or the Affections of Our good Subjects, as to think Ourself in need of any Foreign Force to preserve Us from Oppression (and We shall not need for any other Purpose); but are confident (through God's Providence) not to want the good Wishes and Assistance of the whole Kingdom; being resolved to build upon that sure Foundation, the Law of the Land. And We take it very ill that any general Discourses between an unknown Person and a Mariner, or Inferences upon Letters, should be able to prevail in Matters so improbable in themselves, and scandalous to Us, for which We cannot but likewise ask Reparation, not only for the vindicating of Our own Honour, but also thereby to settle the Minds of Our Subjects, whose Fears and Jealousies would soon vanith were they not fed and maintained by such false and malicious Rumours as these.
"For Our Return to Our Parliament, We have given you a full Answer in Ours to your Declaration; and you ought to look on Us as not gone, but driven (We say not by you yet) from you; and if it be not so easy for you to make Our Residence in London so safe as We could desire, We are and will be contented that Our Parliament be adjourned to such a Place, where We may be fitly and safely with you; for (though We are not pleased to be at this Distance, yet) ye are not to expect Our Presence until ye shall both secure Us concerning Our just Apprehensions of tumultuary Insolencies, and likewise give Us Satisfaction for those insupportable and insolent Scandals that are raised upon Us.
"To conclude: As We have or shall not refuse any Way, agreeable to Justice or Honour, which shall be offered to Us, for the begetting a right Understanding between Us; so We are resolved, that no Streights or Necessities (to which We may be driven) shall ever compel. Us to do that which the Reason and Understanding that God hath given Us, and Our own Honour and Interest, with which God hath trusted Us for the Good of Our Posterity and Kingdoms, shall render unpleasant and grievous unto Us: And We assure you, that, how meanly soever you are pleased to value the Discharge of Our public Duty, We are so conscious to Ourself of having done Our Part, since this Parliament, that (in whatsoever Condition We now stand) We are consident of the continued Protection from Almighty God, and the constant Gratitude, Obedience, and Affection, from Our People. And We shall trust God with all."
All Business, except the Irith Committee and Kentish Petition, to be laid aside till this Answer is considered.
This being read; the Lord Keeper further reported, "That the House of Commons do account that this Answer of the King's is a Matter of so great Importance as requires some Time to consider of it; but they, having not Time now to make any Observations upon it; have resolved to lay all other Business aside, excepting the Committee for the Irish Affairs and the Committee for the Kentish Petition, until they have considered of this Answer of the King's."
In which Resolution this House agrees with the House of Commons.
Ordered, That the Message of both Houses of Parliament, sent to the King the 22d of March 1641, shall be forthwith printed and published, with this Answer of the King's annexed.
Message from the H. C. with the Bill to amend an Act for suppressing the Irish Rebels.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Gilb' Gherrard, Baronet; who brought up the Bill from the House of Commons, for explaining the Bill for the speedy reducing of the Rebels in Ireland, which the House of Commons desires may be passed with all Speed, they having agreed to the Alterations in it.
To expedite the Bill against Pluralities.
2. The House of Commons desires that their Lordships would give Expedition to the Bills against Pluralities and Innovations.
And the Deputy Lieutenants for Lancashire and Lincolne.
3. To desire their Lordships Approbation of some Persons whom they have nominated, to be Deputy Lieutenants for the Counties of Lancashire and Lyncolne; which, being read, were approved of by this House.
The Answer returned was:
That this House will proceed in the Bills against Pluralities and Innovations, with all convenient Speed; and that their Lordships have agreed to the Deputy Lieutenants for the Counties, of Lancaster and Lyncolne.
Ordered, That the Cause of Joseph Hawes shall be heard on Thursday next, the first Cause.
Ld Loftus's Cause.
Ordered, That the Cause of the Lord Viscount Loftus shall be heard in this House on Tuesday next; at which Time the Parties on both Sides, with their Counsel and Witnesses, are to attend.
Grievances and Remedies to be reported.
Ordered, That the Lord Robartes do report the Conference formerly had with the House of Commons, concerning Grievances, and the Remedies, this Afternoon.
Next, George Benion, according to the Order of this House, brought in his Answer to the Petition of the Lord St. Johns against him; which this House received, and commanded it to be read; which was accordingly done, as followeth: videlicet,
Benyons Answer to Lord St. John's Petition.
"To the Right Honourable the Lords in the High Court of Parliament assembled.
"The humble Answer of George Benion to a Petition exhibited before your Lordships, by the Right Honourable Oliver Lord St. John, against this Defendant.
"The said Defendant, saving to himself the Advantage of Exception to the said Charge, for Answer humbly saith, That, about the Time in the Petition mentioned, this Defendant, by His Majesty's Letters Patents, under the Great Seal of England, was made His Majesty's Receiver (fn. 4) General of the Counties of North'ton and Rutland; and that he entered into Bond, conditioned to accompt, and further, as by the said Bond and Condition may appear, to which this Defendant, for more Certainty therein, referreth himself: And this Defendant further saith, That true it is, the Lord St. John did afterwards, at or about the several Times in the said Petition mentioned, become indebted unto him, this Defendant, in the Sum of One Thousand Five Hundred Pounds Principal Money lent; for securing whereof, the Bonds mentioned in the Petition were given and entered into to this Defendant; as also in the Sum of Two Hundred Pounds more, which this Defendant, to pleasure his Lordship, did lend him, upon his Letter, about Two Years sithence; whereof, although Payment was thereby promised within Eight Days, yet hath this Defendant as yet not received the same; and over and besides, for Wares, the Sum of Two Hundred and Thirteen Pounds, which his Lordship bought and had, and which, by this Defendant or his Servants, were delivered to his Lordship, or to his Lordship's Use, at ordinary and usual selling Prices, then given by other Buyers for Wares of like Quantity and Goodness; which Debts, so secured by the said Bonds, together with the other Debt herein set forth, with Damages after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Cent. for Forbearance thereof, did and doth amount to the Sum of Two Thousand Four Hundred Pounds, or thereabouts, besides Two Hundred and Fifty Pounds, or thereabouts, expended by this Defendant in Charges at Law, upon an Endeavour to recover the same Debt and Damages; yet hath this Defendant received or had, towards or in Part of Satisfaction of the said Debt, Damages, and Charges, in ready Money, the Sum of One Hundred Forty and Seven Pounds, and Ten Shillings, and no more: But saith, That, towards this Defendant's further Security, his Lordship having taken a Bond, in the Name of the said Robert Stephens, his Lordship's Taylor, in Trust for his Lordship, as was affirmed, for Payment of a Debt of Four Hundred and Fifty Pounds, claimed to be due to his Lordship from the Right Honourable William now Lord Viscount Stafford; it is true that, upon a Letter of Attorney from the said Stephens, made to this Defendant, by the Direction of the said Lord St. John, and upon Delivery to this Defendant of the said Bond so made for the Payment of the said Four Hundred and Fifty Pounds by the said Viscount Stafford, this Defendant, authorized as aforesaid, demanded the said Four Hundred and Fifty Pounds of and from him the said Viscount Stafford; who being not furnished to make present Payment, this Defendant, to supply some other Occasions of the said Lord Viscount, the better to secure the said Debts, did, at his Lordship's Request, disburse a further Sum of Money unto the said Viscount Stafford; and thereupon procured a Grant from him of some Lands for Payment of this Defendant's new Monies in the first Place, as also of the said Four Hundred and Fifty Pounds, at certain Days yet to come: But denieth that the said Lord Viscount was, by this Defendant, sued for the same Debt, by Way of Extent or Inquisition, as by the said Petition is alledged: And this Defendant also confesseth, That some Assignment of the Statute in the Petition mentioned was made unto him by the said Lord St. John, and such Prosecution had thereupon as is mentioned in the said Petition; wherein nevertheless this Defendant, for more Certainty, referreth to the Proceedings themselves: But saith, That no Penny, upon the said Statute of Sir Lewis Pemberton, was or is recovered, or recoverable, as he believeth; for that the Lands of the said Sir Lewis, before such Time as the said Statute was entered into, were mortgaged and forfeited, and are, as this Defendant is informed, by a Decree in Chancery, settled in such Manner as the same, or any Part thereof, are, to the Knowledge of this Defendant, liable to be extended by or upon the said Statute; and what Endeavour this Defendant used to recover the same, at his great Charge, the Lord St. John hath more Cause to thank this Defendant for the same, rather tending to the Lord St. John's Ease and Advantage, if the Money had been recovered, than any Way to his Damage: And this Defendant further saith, That he hath been, and is, ready and willing to give a just Account unto the Lord St. John, of and concerning all and every the Matters aforesaid, touching the said Debt, wherein he will not only discount the Money by him received as aforesaid, and accept the said Four Hundred and Fifty Pounds, as paid by the said Viscount Stafford, in Discharge of so much of the said Lord St. John's Debt, although now made good by such Monies issued by this Defendant, and not yet for many Years to be received; but also, upon Satisfaction and Payment of the remaining Debt, Damages, and Charges, will assign and deliver up all the Securities, which he had or hath for the said Monies and Debt, or for any Part thereof, from the said Lord St. John, to your Lordships full Satisfaction, that this Defendant neither did nor doth seek Advantage, but to have his own, according to Justice and Equity; and which, he humbly conceiveth, will seem just to your Lordships this Defendant should have: And as concerning the assigning of any Bonds or Debt owing this Defendant by the Petitioner, or suing out Extents thereupon against any of the Lands of the said Lord St. John, or any of his Sureties, or Seizures made of the same; this Defendant saith, That, at the Time of the Assignment of the said Bonds to His Majesty, this Defendant was truly indebted to His Majesty; and saith, That Lands in Essex to the Yearly Value of Thirty Pounds only, and Lands or Estate in Bedfordshire to the Yearly Value of Fifteen Pounds, to his Lordship appertaining, have been extended; by which Extent in Bedfordshire, Seven Pounds Ten Shillings only hath been received, and is Part of the Money hereby acknowledged to have been received; and this Defendant humbly conceiveth, and doubts not but to make it appear, that whatsoever hath been done by him this Defendant therein, or by his Procurement, for Recovery of his said Debt, is agreeable to the ancient, constant, and usual Course of His Majesty's Court of Exchequer, and not contrary to the Laws and Statutes of this Kingdom: And he absolutely denieth, that he ever made, or constituted, any Deputy or Deputies in or concerning the said Office of Receivership, either for Fine, Reward, or otherwise, as by the said Petition is suggested. All which this Defendant is ready to prove, as this Honourable House shall award.
Lord St. Johns to have a Copy of Benyon's Answer, and the Cause to be heard.
This Answer being read; the said George Benyon was commanded to withdraw; and then this House Ordered, That the Lord St. Johns should have a Copy of the aforesaid Answer; and that the Cause should be heard at this Bar on Thursday come Sevennight, being the Fourteenth of April next; at which Time the Witnesses on Behalf of the Lord St. Johns are to attend the Hearing accordingly.
Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in post merdiem hujus instantis diei, hora 3a, Dominis sic decernentibus.
Lord Baltimore and Mr. Arundel agreed.
The Lord Keeper reported, "That he hath heard the Counsel on both Sides, in the Cause between Mr. Arundle and the Lord Baltamore, concerning a Ne exeat Regnum against the said Lord Baltamore; and that they are agreed, by Consent, that the Lord Baltamore shall give a Recognizance of Five Thousand Pounds, not to go out of this Kingdom until Michaelmas next; and that Mr. Arundle shall have Liberty to mend his Petition, and make it more particular, that so the Lord Baltamore may answer to it more particularly."
L. Lieutenant of Ireland to write for Examinations concerning MacMahowne and McGwire, &c.
Ordered, That the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland shall write unto the Lords Justices of Ireland, to send over the Examinations or Transcripts of Mac-Mahowne, the Lord Magwire, and Colonel Reade, and of all others since the Beginning of this Rebellion, according to a former Order of Parliament, dated the 22d of March last past; and that the said Mac-Mahowne, Lord Magwire, and Colonel Reade, shall be sent over, in safe Custody, unto the Parliament, as soon as they shall be fit to travel.
Report of the Conference about Grievances and Remedies.
Then the Lord Robartes reported a former Conference had with the House of Commons, concerning a Declaration of the Grievances and Evils of this Kingdom, with the Proposition of the Remedies and Cures which they conceive fit for those Diseases.
The Declaration was read, in hæc verba: videlicet,
The Declaration to the King, of Grievances.
"We Your Majesty's most humble and loyal Subjects, the Lords and Commons in this present Parliament assembled, do hereby call God, this Kingdom, and the whole World to Witness, that we have, ever since our first Meeting in this present Parliament, with Fidelity to Your Majesty and the State, with much Patience and Constancy, in respect of the great Affronts and Interruptions, the pernicious Plots and Attempts, wherewith we have been encountered, distracted, and opposed, employed our Counsels and Endeavours to maintain God's true Religion, the Honour and Rights of Your Crown, the Peace and Safety of Your Royal Person and Your Kingdoms, the just Liberties of Your People; that so we might ease them of their great Grievances, and prevent the Fears and Dangers, yea the imminent Ruin and Destruction, which have been contrived and fostered, not only in Your Court, but even very near Your own Person; and, however our Liberties have been invaded, many of our Lives endangered, and such Attempts made upon us as might have subverted the very Being of Parliaments, yet have we so kept ourselves within the Bounds of Modesty and Duty, that we have given no just Occasion of Your Majesty's Absence at this Time, nor of any Offence or Displeasure to the Queen's Majesty; but, notwithstanding our manifold Experience past, and present Sense and Apprehension of those Principles, destructive to this Church and State, with which that Religion Her Majesty professeth doth abound, have ever been careful of the Honour and Safety due to Her Majesty's Person, and so intend to continue for the Time to come.
"And we most humbly beseech Your Majesty; with Wisdom and Compassion to behold the miserable perishing Condition of all Your Kingdoms; the full Accomplishment whereof seems impossible to be avoided, unless You will be graciously pleased to join seriously and thoroughly with Your Parliament, in removing the Causes, and applying the most powerful and sovereign Remedies of those Evils and Distempers which have long held this Kingdom in a languishing Estate, and now brought it even to the last Gasp and Period of Destruction; for Prevention whereof, according to the Trust reposed in us, we are bold in all Humility and Faithfulness to present some of those Causes and Remedies to Your Princely View and Consideration.
"1. The evil Counsel about Your Majesty and the Queen, continually acting and disposing all Occurrences of State, and abusing Your Majesty's Power and Authority, to the Prejudice of Religion, the Hazard of the Public Peace, the Interruption of the Parliament, the Strengthening of a malignant Party within the Kingdom, the Raising and Fomenting Jealousies and Discontents betwixt Your Majesty, Your Parliament, and other loyal Subjects.
"2. The Priests, Jesuits, Papists, both Foreign and Native, and other dangerous and ill-affected Persons, have had so great an Interest in the Affections, and powerful Influence upon the Counsels, of the Queen; and that Her Majesty hath been admitted to intermeddle with the great Affairs of State, and with the disposing of Places and Preferments even of highest Concernment in the Kingdom; which being conferred by Her Mediation, hereby not only many of those who are of great Power and Authority, but divers active Spirits, ambitious of Public Employments, have their Dependency upon, and are engaged to favour and advance, those Aims and Designs, which are infused into Her Majesty upon Grounds of Conscience, which is the strongest Bond either of Good or Evil.
"3. The great Encouragement of Popery, the public Exercise of that Religion in Whitehall, SomersettHouse, and other Places, the establishing of a Popish Hierarchy, the settling a College of Capuchins within this Realm, the free and frequent Conventions and Consultations of Papists, the Multitude of English Youth of both Sexes bred in the Colleges and Religious Houses beyond the Seas, and those Popish Schools, which, by the Connivance and Favour of the Time, have been set up and permitted within this Kingdom.
"4. The Want of a due Reformation of the Church Government and Liturgy now used, the Want of a Preaching Ministry, and a competent Maintenance for them, in many Parts of this Kingdom.
"5. The over-strict pressing of divers Ceremonies in the Liturgy and Rubrick, and the enjoining and pressing of other Ceremonies not established by Law.
"6. The Votes of the Popish Lords in the House of Peers, whereby the great Work of Reformation in the Government of the Church and State hath been, and may yet be, very much hindered, and the malignant Party of the Kingdom strengthened and protected.
"7. The Countenance and Protection which hath been afforded to many great and dangerous Delinquents; the Preferments of such as have adhered to them, and the Displeasure shewed against those who have been used and employed as Witnesses in the Trial and Prosecution of them.
"8. The violent and frequent Breaches of the Privileges of Parliament; the often Attempts against the Safety, and malicious Design to frustrate the Power and Proceedings, of Parliament.
"9. The managing and transacting the great Affairs of the Realm in private Cabinet Councils, by Men unknown, not trusted by the Wisdom of the Law, nor well-affected to the Public Good of the Kingdom.
"10. The preferring Men to Degrees of Honour, to Offices, and other Employments of Trust, and displacing others, in Time of Parliament, without the Consent of that Your great and faithful Council, whereby covetous and ambitious Spirits are apt to be biassed to those Courses which lead to their own Preferments; and others, more ingenuous and upright, are awed and streightened in the Performance of their Duties.
"11. The selling of Places of Judicature, of Offices of Trust in Courts of Justice, of the Degrees of Serjeants at Law, and of the Charge and Custody of the Castles and Forts of the Kingdom, whereby insufficient, corrupt, and unworthy Persons are often preferred; who, being obnoxious to Censure and Punishment, are engaged, for their own Security, to be pliant and serviceable to any evil Designs; Oppression, Bribery, and Extortion are cherished and increased; Your Majesty's Service, the Safety, Honour, and Government of the Kingdom neglected; and the Places and Employments of Trust, within the Frame and Constitution of the Commonwealth, (fn. 5) which were intended for the general Good and Service of the Kingdom, are for the most Part, by the Study and Endeavours of those that enjoy them, improved to the Satisfaction of their own Covetousness, Ambition, or other private Ends, and made burdensome and hurtful to the Public, by obstructing or perverting the Ways of Justice.
"12. The secret and false Informations and Accusations, received against divers Members of the Parliament, whereby they have been much endangered and prejudiced in the Favour and Apprehension of Your Majesty and the Queen, and, by concealing the Informers, have been left without Means to acquit and defend themselves.
"The Remedies which we humbly tender to Your Majesty are these:
"1. That the Lords and others of Your Majesty's Privy Council, and all other Persons employed in great Offices of State and Government, either at Home or beyond the Seas, may be put from the Privy Council, and from those Offices and Employments, excepting such as have Offices by Inheritance; and that such Persons shall be put into those Places and Employments as shall be recommended to Your Majesty by Advice of both Houses of Parliament; and that all Privy Counsellors shall take an Oath for the due Execution of their Places, in such Form as shall be agreed upon by Parliament; and that such of those Counsellors and Great Officers as shall be so displaced, and not recommended as afore, and whose Names shall be presented by both Houses of Parliament, shall not have Access to the Persons or Courts (fn. 6) of the King or Queen's Majesty.
"2. That all Priests, Jesuits, and Papists, as likewise all other dangerous and ill-affected Persons, though professing the Protestant Religion, be removed from the Queen's Person, and from having any Office or Employment under Her; and that all Her Majesty's Servants whatsoever shall take an Oath, to be devised and enacted by Parliament, That he or she will not, at any Time, directly or indirectly, by him or herself, or any other, move, petition, or solicit Her Majesty, in any Matter concerning the State and Government of the Kingdom, or concerning any Favour or Immunity to be conferred upon any Papists, against the Laws, or for any Honour, Preferment, or Employment, of any Person whatsoever.
"3. That Your Majesty will be graciously pleased to remove from about the Royal Persons of Your Majesty and the Queen, and from both Your Courts, Mr. William Murrey and Mr. Endimion Porter, both which are of Your Bedchamber, and Sir John Winter, late Secretary to the Queen's Majesty, and Mr. William Crofts, being all Persons of evil Fame, as those who are disaffected to the Public Peace and Prosperity of the Kingdom, and Instruments of Jealousy, Discontent, and Misunderstanding, betwixt Your Majesty and Your Parliament, and busy Promoters of those Mischiefs and Grievances, which have produced the great Dangers, Distempers, and Fears, wherewith all Your Kingdoms have been and still are miserably distracted and perplexed.
"4. That Your Majesty will be pleased not to entertain any Advice or Mediation from the Queen, in Matters of Religion, or concerning the Government of any of Your Majesty's Dominions, or for the placing or displacing of any Great Officers, Counsellors, Ambassadors, or Agents, beyond the Seas, or any of Your Majesty's Servants attending Your Royal Person, either in Your Bedchamber or Privy Chamber, or attending the Person of the Prince, or any of the Royal Issue, after they shall attain to the Age of Five Years.
"5. That, for the further securing the Kingdom in this Behalf, being a Matter of such great Importance for the Preservation of Religion and the Safety of the Kingdom, the Queen will be pleased to take a solemn Oath, in the Presence of both Houses of Parliament, the Form whereof is to be agreed on in Parliament, That She will not hereafter give any Counsel, or use any Mediation, to His Majesty, concerning the disposing of any the Offices or Places above mentioned, or at all intermeddle in any of the Affairs of State, or Government of the Kingdom.
"6. That all Great Officers and Counsellors, and such other as shall be employed in any of the Places aforementioned, shall take a solemn Oath, in such Manner and Form as shall be prescribed by Parliament, That they have not made Use of any Power or Mediation of the Queen, directly or indirectly, for their Preferment, in obtaining any such Place or Employment.
"7. That the great Affairs of the Kingdom may not be concluded or transacted by the Advice of private Men, or by any unknown or unsworn Counsellors; but that such Matters as concern the Public, and are proper for Your Majesty's Privy Council, shall be debated and concluded by such of the Nobility and others as shall be recommended to that Place by Parliament; and such other Matters of State as are proper for the High Court of Parliament, which is Your Majesty's Great and Supreme Council, shall be debated, and resolved, and transacted, only in Parliament, and not elsewhere; and such as shall presume to do any Thing to the contrary, shall be reserved to the Censure and Judgement of Parliament.
"8. That no Person whatsoever, under the Penalty of High Treason, to be enacted by Parliament, shall presume to make, entertain, solicit, or further, any Propositions or Treaty, for the Marriage of any of the King's Children, with any Prince or Person of the Popish Religion; and that no Marriage for any of the King's Children may be concluded, with any other Prince or Person whatsoever, without the Consent and Advice of both Houses of Parliament.
"9. That none of the King's Children, except the Princess Mariæ, already affianced, may at any Time go beyond the Seas, without the Consent of both Houses of Parliament; and that no Person, under the Penalty of High Treason, to be enacted by Parliament, shall advise, assist, or attend any of His Majesty's Children, in any such Voyage beyond the Seas, without the like Consent of both Houses of Parliament.
"10. That such Popish Priests as are already condemned may be forthwith executed; and such as shall hereafter be condemned may likewise be executed according to Law.
"11. That no Mass, or Popish Service, be sung or said, in the Courts of the King, Queen, Prince, or in the House of any Subject in this Kingdom; and that none of Your Majesty's Subjects, or Servants to Your Majesty, the Queen, or any of Your Children, be present at Mass, or any other Service of the Church of Rome, (fn. 7) at any Place whatsoever, under the Penalty of losing his Office and Service, over and above the other Penalties already enjoined by Law.
"12. That some more effectual Courses may be enacted, by Authority of Parliament, for the better Execution of the Laws against the Papists, for the preventing of feigned Conformity, and disabling them from making any Disturbance in the State.
"13. That the Votes of Papist Lords in the House of Peers may be taken away by Act of Parliament.
"14. That a due Reformation may be made of the Church Government and Liturgy by the Parliament; and (fn. 8) an able Preaching Ministry may be established in all Parts of this Kingdom; to which Purpose that they intend to be assisted with the Advice of such Godly and Learned Divines as shall be agreed upon by both Houses of Parliament.
"15. That it may be established by Act of Parliament, that no Person shall incur any Penalties, or Punishment, for any Omission of the Ceremonies in the Liturgy and Rubrick, until the intended Reformation be made by Parliament; and that such Ceremonies as are not established by Law, may forthwith be wholly taken away.
"16. That such Delinquents as stand charged in Parliament for any Offence against the Peace and Liberty of the Kingdom, or Privilege of Parliament, may be left to the Course of Justice; and such as have or shall fly out of the Kingdom, upon any such Charge, shall be subject to such Penalties and Forfeitures as shall be agreed on and imposed by Bill in both Houses of Parliament.
"17. That such Persons as shall be declared in Parliament to adhere to any such Delinquents, and have thereupon any Preferment from Your Majesty, shall be removed from those Preferments; and that such as shall be declared by both Houses of Parliament to have been employed or used as Witnesses against Delinquents, and have thereupon fallen into Your Majesty's Displeasure, and been put out of their Places, shall be restored to their Places, and to Your Majesty's Favour.
"18. That every Person, which, being a Member of the House of Commons in this present Parliament, hath been accused for any Offence against that House, and, that Accusation depending, hath been called up to the House of Lords in the Quality of a Peer, shall, by Act of Parliament, be put out of that House; and that hereafter no Member of the House of Commons, except in Case of Descent, may, without their Consent, be called up to be a Peer in the Lords House.
"19. That no Person which shall hereafter be made a Peer of this Realm shall be admitted to have his Seat or Vote in the House of Peers, without the Consent of both Houses of Parliament.
"20. That those Members of the House of Commons, who have this Parliament been called to the House of Peers, except in Case of Descent, may be excluded from giving their Votes in the House of Peers, unless both Houses of Parliament shall assent thereunto.
"21. That no Member of either House of Parliament may be preferred or displaced, sitting the Parliament, to or from any Office in the Court of the King, Queen, or Prince, or about any the King's Children, or public Place of Trust in the Commonwealth, or to or from the Benefit of such Place or Places, without Consent of that House whereof such Person shall be a Member.
"22. That such Persons of either House of Parliament, (fn. 9) as have been preferred to any such Offices or Places during this Parliament, may be put out of those Offices and Places; and that those Members of either House of Parliament, who, during the Parliament, have been put out of any such Offices, Places, or the Benefit thereof, may be restored again to those Places and Offices, and to the Benefit thereof, upon Petition of that House whereof they are Members.
"23. That no Office, or Employment, concerning the Justice and Government of the Kingdom, or Your own Revenue, or Degree of Serjeant at Law, or Custody of any Fort or Castle, or Place of Trust, be sold, or bestowed for Money, to be paid to Your Majesty, or the Use or Benefit of any of Your Servants, or any other; and that it be declared in Parliament to be a Breach of Trust and Duty, both to Your Majesty and the Commonwealth, in any of those who, under Your Majesty, shall have the bestowing of any such Place, to take Money for the same, either directly or indirectly, by himself or others; and that the Laws in Force against selling of Offices be duly observed for the Time to come, and the Penalties thereby incurred not to be discharged by any non obstante or Dispensation; but that Men be preferred for their Ability, Merit, Experience, and other public Respects, and the People eased of all excessive Fees, unnecessary Delays, and the Proceedings of Justice made more easy, certain, and indifferent, than of late they have been.
"24. That Your Majesty would be pleased to discover the Names of those Persons who advised Your Majesty to issue out Warrants, for the sealing of the Chambers and the Studies of the Lord Kymbolton, or of any Member of the House of Commons, and to send the Serjeant at Arms to the House of Commons, to demand some of their Members; to issue out several Warrants, under Your Majesty's own Hand, to apprehend those Members; Your Majesty coming thither in Your own Royal Person; the setting forth a printed Paper, in the Form of a Proclamation, to apprehend those Members; the exhibiting of Articles of Treason in the Lords House against these Members; and who advised and contrived those Articles, or informed Your Majesty of the Matters therein contained.
"25. That Your Majesty would be pleased, according to Law, not to receive any private. Information or Suggestion against any Member of Parliament, for Things done in Parliament; and that Your will be pleased to discover the Names of those Persons who have given, or shall give, any such private Information or Suggestion to Your Majesty, upon the humble Petition of the respective House of Parliament, against whose Members any such private Information or Suggestion have been or shall be given; and that You would be pleased to make a Public Declaration and Promise in Parliament to that Purpose.
"These Things being obtained and confirmed by Your Majesty's Princely Favour and Goodness; they humbly conceive that, through the Blessing of God, it will be an assured and effectual Means to remove all Jealousies and Distempers betwixt Your Majesty and Your People, and to establish Your Royal Throne upon the sure Foundation of their Love and Considence; and thereupon Your dutiful and loyal Subjects shall most chearfully address themselves, with their Lives and Fortunes, to maintain and defend Your Sacred Person, Your Royal Power and Authority, in a Parliamentary Way; to support and supply Your Majesty in so free and large a Manner as may make You as great and happy a Prince as any of Your most Renowned Ancestors; and, upon all Occasions, they shall be ready to use their utmost and most faithful Endeavours, that Your Majesty, Your Royal Queen, and Princely Issue, may enjoy all Honour, Happiness, and Contentment, in the Midst of an humble, (fn. 10) obedient, and affectionate People; whereby a hopeful Way will be opened for Your Majesty to become a glorious Instrument of the Peace and Prosperity of this Kingdom, and of all Your Friends and Allies, abroad."
Considerations offered by Mr. Pym upon it.
After this, his Lordship reported further, "That Mr. Pym said, he was commanded, by the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses of the House of Commons, to present this Declaration to their Lordships, of the Causes and Remedies of the Mischiefs of these Times, such as required a present Remedy rather than a Declaration; and afterwards to say something to prepare your Lordships Consents to it. He said, The Mischiefs have been expressed with more Danger and Violence than in any Age heretofore; and therefore their Lordships will not wonder that something extraordinary be in the Cure; yet the House of Commons say, they have kept themselves within the Bounds of their Duty and Modesty, as such who are for the Advantage of the King, as well as of the Subject.
"He said, If these Causes and Remedies be duly considered, in relation to the great Distractions of the Kingdom, their Lordships would think all of them necessary and important, and most of them without Exceptions; yet he was commanded to touch upon the principal Matters, and remove some Objections; which he would do in few Words as speaking to those whose Reasons would prevent Discourses.
"The First Objection is, against the Naming of ill Counsellors, which might seem as an Incroachment upon the Prerogative; which the Commons, as well as Your Lordships, will be tender of, so far as it stands with the public Good, Peace, and Safety of the Kingdom, for which all Power and Government is framed.
"To this he answered, 1. That anciently, by the Laws of this Kingdom, the Great Officers of the Realm are to be settled no other Way but with Consent of Parliament; if the great Places were so, it is not strange the lesser should.
"2. There is but a Recommendation desired; they have their Authority still from the King; 'Tis known that private Advisers are heard, who deserve not the Credit which both Houses of Parliament are of; so long as these are done by the King's Grant, it affirmeth, not opposeth, His Prerogative.
"The Second Objection is to another Head of the First Article, That all Officers should be put out, the innocent as well as the nocent; this may seem hard.
"1. But this is done to avoid Personal Taxes; that they may go off in a general Throng, who have not deserved well.
"2. It will be a Means to avoid the more wary Carriage, which yet are not so clear as to get a Confidence with the Subject.
"For the Article, That all Jesuits and Papists should be removed from the Queen; this is liable to an Objection of debarring the Queen of the Exercise of Her Religion; and that this is against the Public Treaty and Faith given, and so may draw some Dishonour, and it may be Enmity, on us.
"The Answer to this is, That the House of Commons considered that the Law of God, and the Law of the Land, was only fit for the Representation of the Body of the Kingdom to judge of; the House of Commons, and the Lords, the Hereditary Judges of this Realm: For, if there must be Idolatry, against the Law of God, it concerns them much to resist it, left they should incur the Divine Wrath; and nothing concerns them more than to see the Laws of this Kingdom executed: Herein we may displease Man, we shall not God.
"For the Public Faith and League, it is less than that with God; we must respect the Higher, and neglect the Lower: No Contract can oblige against the Law of God, neither any Contract can bind us against the Laws of this Kingdom.
"The Fourth Objection is, against the Queen's taking an Oath.
"The House of Commons desires it may be considered how great and how necessary a Desire this is; for the Power She hath had, in disposing of Offices, is known to all your Lordships; and, to avoid this, they can have no other Remedy but some Bond and Tie upon Her Conscience. This will argue the Solemnity of these Desires; and this, though it be unusual, the Cause is so, that the like urgent Occasions since the Conquest we have not had, as now.
"To that which concerns the Marriage of the King's Children:
"This Answer is given, That we never were in any Condition which presseth us to desire this as now; and, having found so much Danger by Marriages with a contrary Religion, we should do what we might to avoid the like: It was said, That the House of Commons wished the Queen all Honour, and all Happiness; but, to prevent the future, it is necessary we deal advisedly in this. The Children of the King (fn. 11) are His, yet they are the Children of the Kingdom also; and the Laws look more to them than to private Men's Children; and yet even those, for Public Good, the Law may restrain, for Public (fn. 12) Conveniency.
"He said, Your Lordships see Religion almost gone within these Two Years; and, if this Parliament be not a Means to preserve it, it will be gone indeed; and therefore, with relation to Religion, this Article is necessary.
"The Sixth Objection is, To the Restraint of making Peers; and that those who were Members of the House of Commons should be restored to that House.
"The House of Commons conceive it agreeable to the Nature of Parliament, which, as it is fit for Your Lordships to desire none should be made but by Your Consent, so will the House desire for themselves, that none of their Body may be taken away but by their Consent; and, in the Case of Assistants in the Peers House taken from the House of Commons, they have been remanded to that House, in several Cases.
"These are all the Particular Objections.
"Concerning the General Objection, that, seeing most of these cannot be done without a Bill, why is this Way taken of a Declaration?
"The Answer to this is, That the Necessity of the Times will not wait for the passing of sundry Bills, which must take up some Time; but it will be a great Comfort to the Kingdom to have the King's Assent before-hand, and it will much conduce to the settling of the Minds of Men."
This Report being ended; it is Ordered, That the Matter of this Report shall be taken into Debate Tomorrow Morning.
Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Sabbati, videlicet, 2m diem instantis Aprilis, 1642, hora 9a Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.