House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 26 October 1643

Pages 273-274

Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 6, 1643. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

This free content was digitised by double rekeying. All rights reserved.

Page 273
Page 274

In this section

DIE Jovis, 26 die Octobris.


Lords present:

The Lord Grey, Speaker.

Comes Northumb.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Bollingbrooke.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Sarum.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. Hunsden.
Ds. Bruse.

Message from the H. C. about appropriating Part of Justice Berkley's Fine to the Service of the Western Parts;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Strode:

To desire their Lordships to give a Resolution in their Desire concerning the appointing of Ten Thousand Pounds, Part of Justice Berkley's Fine, to be employed for the Supply of the Western Counties.

and to expedite the Order about the Money in Sutton's Hospital.

2. To desire their Lordships Expedition in the Order concerning the Money in Sutton's Hospital.

The Answer returned was:


That their Lordships will take the Particulars of this Message into Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers [ (fn. 1) of their own.]

Justice Berkley's Fine to be disposed of for the L. General's Army.

It was moved, "That the Ten Thousand Pounds desired for the Western Counties may be disposed of for the Lord General's Army, it being in great Necessity for Want of Monies, as (fn. 1) appears by a Letter from the Lord General to the Committee of the Safety; and he will take Care for the Preservation of the West Parts."

Message to the H. C. about it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Serjeant Whitfeild and Serjeant Fynch:

To let them know, that this House is informed that the Lord General's Army is now in great Want of Monies; therefore their Lordships think it fit that the whole Fine of Justice Berkley may be employed to the Payment of the Lord General's Army.

Lord Petre's Goods not to be removed or taken away.

Orders made by Committees of the H. C. which should have been made only by both Houses.

Ordered, That an Order of this House be forthwith sent down to the Committee of Sequestrations in Essex; That the Goods of the Lord Peter's may not be sold, or removed out of his House, until the Business be heard before the Committee of Lords and Commons for Sequestrations: And this House being informed, "That the (fn. 2) Seizure of the Lord Peter's Goods is by virtue of an Order of the House of Commons, which is contrary to an Ordinance of both Houses of Parliament; and that many Private Orders of Committees of the House of Commons have been made for Importation of Currants, and releasing of Ships taken, which should not have been but by Order of both Houses, whereby the Ordinance of both Houses is infringed:" Therefore this House Ordered, To have a Conference with the House of Commons, to acquaint them therewith, and desire that no such Orders hereafter may be issued out.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons return this Answer:

Answer from the H. C.

They have delivered their Message concerning the Ten Thousand Pounds for the Western (fn. 1) Counties.

Order concerning the Money in Sutton's Hospital.

Ordered, That the Committee for the Order concerning Sutton's Hospital shall meet To-morrow Morning, at Ten of the Clock; and the Master of Sutton's Hospital and the Officers shall attend at the same Time: And it is Ordered, That the Earls of Northumb. and Sarum are added to the said Committee.

Committees to go to Scotland.

Next, this House took into Consideration a former Request from the House of Commons, "That they intending to send Mr. Rob't Goodwin and Mr. Barwis Members of their House, Mr. Bryan Stapleton and Mr. Rob't Fenwicke Esquires, Mr. Samuell Avery and Mr. Francis Allen Citizens, Committees into Scotland, to execute such Things as they shall have Power by Instructions from the Parliament:" And hereupon this House appointed the Earl of Stamford to go into Scotland with them, as a Committee of this House.

Armourers Petition, that Foreign-made Arms may be tried before they are used.

Ordered, That the Petition of the Gunmakers, desiring, "That such Muskets as come from Foreign Parts may be tried before they be used, because divers Men have been hurt by the breaking of Muskets:" Hereupon this House Ordered, That the said Petition is committed to the Committee for the Safety.

Mr. Clement Walker to give Security for his Return.

Ordered, That the Lieutenant of The Tower shall take Security of Mr. Clement Walker, according to the former Order of this House.

Mrs. Powel, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mrs. Mary Powell shall have a Pass, to go into Berkshire; and return again to London.

Message from the H. C. to sit P. M.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Christopher Yelverton and others:

To let their Lordships know, that they intend to sit as a House at Three of the Clock this Afternoon; and they desire their Lordships would please to sit likewise, for they have some Business of Importance to communicate to their Lordships.

The Answer returned was:


That their Lordships will sit at Three of the Clock this Afternoon.

E. of Desmond cannot pay his Assessment, unless the People are prevented from stealing his Wood, which he cuts down to raise the Money.

Upon reading a Petition of the Earl of Desmond; shewing, "That he being assessed, by the Committee for Advance of Money for the Army within London and Twenty Miles Compass; on the Nineteenth Day of this Instant October, the said Committees gave him Ten Days to pay in his said Assessment; for Performance, his Lordship caused to be felled a fit Proportion of Wood and Timber, in Austerley Parke, in the County of Midd.; but the poor People of Brainford, Hounsloe, and other Towns thereabouts, under Pretence of a late Ordinance of both Houses for cutting down of Underwoods, have taken away most Part of the said Wood and Timber so felled, whereby his Lordship is for the present disabled to make Payment according to the Order aforesaid: But his Lordship hath since treated with divers Persons for Sale of other Parcels of Wood and Timber to make Payment of the said Assessment, who refuse to deal with his Lordship until some Course be (fn. 3) taken for their quiet carrying away and enjoying the said Wood:"

Hereupon this House Ordered, That the Deputy Lieutenants and Justices of the Peace, and all other Officers of the County of Midd. shall take Order, that the Timber and Wood of the Earl of Desmond's be preserved (fn. 4) from stealing and carrying away by the Poor; and that the Persons that shall buy the said Wood (fn. 5) may quietly carry away the same.

Dr. Bennet, Leave to be absent.

Upon Information to this House, "That Doctor Bennett, being now at his House in Wiltshire, where he is very ill, by reason whereof, and in regard of the Dangerousness of Travelling, he cannot attend their Lordships according to the Order of this House."

Hereupon this House Ordered, That he hath Leave to be absent, until his Health will give him Leave to travel to London without Danger of his Health.


House adjourned till 3a post meridiem.

Post meridiem.


These Lords were present:

The Lord (fn. 6) Grey of Warke, Speaker.

Comes Northumb.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Stamford.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Denbigh.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. Hunsden.
Ds. Wharton.

Message from the H. C. for a Conference, on the following Subjects.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Pye Knight, and others:

1. To desire a Conference, touching Affairs of Scotland.

2. Concerning the Two Armies in Ireland.

3. Concerning the Ten Thousand Pounds, Part of Justice Berkley's Fine, for the Supply of the Western Parts.

The Answer returned was:


That their Lordships will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Message to them, that the Part which concerns Justice Berkley's Fine may be Free.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To desire that the next Conference may be a Free Conference, for so much as concerns the Ten Thousand Pounds for Supply of the Forces for the Western Counties.

The Messengers return with this Answer from the House of Commons:


That they are contented the next Conference shall be a Free Conference, for so much as concerns the Ten Thousand Pounds for the Western Forces.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference on an Ordinance for raising Monies, to bring in the Scots, and to pay the Armies in Ireland.

Then the Speaker reported this Night, "so much of the Conference as concerns the speedy raising of Monies for the Supply of our Brethren of Scotland, to enable them to assist us, and for relieving of the Scotts and English Armies in Ireland; for which Purpose they have framed an Ordinance, wherein they desire their Lordships Concurrence: 66,666 l. 13s. 4d." The said Ordinance was read, and Agreed to with Addition of a Proviso,

"That no Members of either House of Parliament be assessed by this Ordinance, but by the respective House whereof they are Members."

Message to the H. C. that the Lords agree to it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To let the House of Commons know, that their Lordships do agree with them in the Ordinance for raising the Sixty-six Thousand Six Hundred and Sixtysix Pounds, Thirteen Shillings, and Four Pence, with this Proviso.

Ordered, That the rest of the Report of this Conference shall be made To-morrow Morning.


House adjourned till 9a cras.


  • 1. Deest in Originali.
  • 2. Origin. seized.
  • 3. Origin. take.
  • 4. Origin. for.
  • 5. Bis in Originali.
  • 6. Origin. Gerey.