House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 15 April 1644

DIE Lunæ, 15 die Aprilis.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Walker.

Lords present this Day:

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Petition for Two Ships in The Downes to be released, detained for Mr. Courteen's Debt.

The Petition of Sir Tho. Soames, &c. was read; desiring "That the Two Ships stayed in The Downes, by Order of the House of Commons, for Eighteen Hundred Pounds due by Mr. Courten, bound for The East Indies, may be released; else their Voyage will be frustrated." Hereupon this House Ordered, That the said Petition be sent to the House of Commons.

Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Harley Knight, and others; which was, to desire their Lordships Concurrence in an Ordinance concerning Gloucester.

Ordinance concerning Gloucester.

The said Ordinance was read Twice, and committed to these Lords following: videlicet,

Any Three, to meet when they please.

Ordinance for cutting Timber on Ld. Petre's Estate, and to pay the Money to Colonel Harvy.

The Lord Admiral reported from the Committee, That they think it fit that the Ordinance for Three Thousand Pounds in Woods be taken out of the Lord Peter's Estate to be (fn. 1) paid to Colonel Harvy, do pass as it came from the House of Commons, without any Alterations."

Which said Ordinance was read the Third Time, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

Ordinance for cutting Timber for the Navy.

Also his (fn. 1) Lordship reported, from the same Committee, the Ordinance concerning the cutting of Timber for the Navy, out of Delinquents Estates; and the Committee think it fit, "That the Earl of Thanett and Sir Francis Lee be excepted out of the said Ordinance, because they came in and rendered themselves according to the Declaration of both Kingdoms; and the Committee thinks it fit that a Committee of both Houses be appointed, to consider what Proportions are requisite to be set upon their Estates, according to the said Declaration."

The said Ordinance was read, leaving out the Earl of Thanett and Sir Francis Lee; and it was Agreed to, with the said Exceptions.

Letter from the L. General, that L. Conway is come in, to render himself to the Parliament.

The Lord General acquainted this House with a Letter written to him from the Earl of Denbigh, dated the 13th of April, at Coventry, to give his Lordship Notice that the Lord Viscount Conway is come to Coventry, to render himself to the Parliament, according to the Declaration of both Kingdoms.

Also the Earl of Northumb. (fn. 2) acquainted this House with a Letter he received from the Lord Viscount Conway; which was read, as followeth:

L. Conway's Letter, that he would have left Oxford sooner if he could have found an Opportunity.

My Lord,

My Knowledge of the Court at Oxford, and the Ways by which Affairs are governed, and my Conjecture what is their ultimate Intention, did make me sorry that I went thither, and desirous to return to the Parliament; so soon as the Declaration of the Parliament did promise Freedom of Return to all that should come by the First of March, I did resolve to go to London; and, to do so, I sent to the Governor of Warwicke Castle, to desire him to send a Troop of Horse, to meet and to bring me off from the Danger I was to expect from the adjacent Garrisons. There hath not any other Consideration kept me thus long, but only the Want of Fitness of Time to go away; which if I could have had, I would have been at London before the First of March; since I was not stayed by my Will but my Necessity, I hope that will be granted to me by their Favour, which if I had come a little sooner I should have had from their Justice; and I am sure that my Fidelity to the Parliament shall be such, that it shall never repent them to have trusted me with their Favour.

I shall go from hence on Monday; I pray let me know what is fit for me to do, for I am ignorant of Formalities; I send you a Letter of the Governor of Warwicke to me, whereby you will see that I sent to him timely enough, if I could have put my Purpose in Execution: I pray God keep you in Health, according to the Desires of

Goventree, April, 13, 1644.

Your most humble

and most faithful Servant,

"Conway & Kilulta."

Another Letter was read, as followeth:

Governor of Warwick's Letter to L. Conway.

May it please Your Lordship,

I am not able to give your Lordship a just Account of the Time when John Bowser came first hither about your Lordship's Affair.

I guess it to be about Two Months since, I am sure a good while within the Time limited by the Declaration: If John Bowser were here, I should not doubt by his Assistance to find out the Certainty. My Lord, if I have in any Thing a Capacity to serve you, be pleased in your Commands to honour,

My Lord,

Warwicke Castle, April 11th, 1644.

Your Lordship's

Most humble Servant,

"Jo. Bridges."

Message from the H. C. to fit a while.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Henry Chomeley Knight, &c.

To desire that their Lordships would please to sit a while, for they have some Business to impart unto their Lordships.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will sit a while, as is desired.

Order to be drawn, for no Persons to preach on Matters of State.

Ordered That the Lord General, Lord Viscount Say & Seale, and the Lord Wharton, shall prepare a Draught of an Order, and present the same to this House To-morrow Morning, to this Effect: "That the Lord Mayor of the City of London be desired to give Order, That no Matters of State shall be published in Pulpits, unless it be by Directions of the Parliament, or such as are authorized by them."

The Earl of Northumb. reported from the Committee, what they conceive fit to be offered to the House of Commons, concerning removing of Mr. Foxley from Sutton's Hospitall; which was read, and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons.

Subject of the Conference about removing Mr. Foxley from being Preacher at Sutton's Hospital.

Whereas the House of Commons formerly made an Order for the sequestering the Preacher's Place in Sutton's Hospitall, and all belonging to it, from Daniell Tuteville, then Preacher there, into the Hands of Thomas Foxley, who hath since enjoyed it: The Governors of the Hospital (whereof divers are Members of the House, and now sitting there) have, according to the Statutes of the Hospital, by their Order of the 7th Day of March last, for divers Offences, legally deprived the said Tuteville, and so the Place thereby becoming void, have given it to Peter Clarke, an Orthodox, Learned, and Godly Divine, and One of the Assembly of Divines: Notwithstanding which, the said Thomas Foxley (though he be a married Man, and hath brought his Wife and Family, consisting of Women Servants and Children, into the House there, contrary to the Foundation and Statutes of the Hospital) still continues there, to the Disturbance of the Peace of the Place, and of the Government of it: The Lords, to the End that all further Complaint and Inconvenience herein may be the better prevented, do desire the House of Commons, that they will declare that the said Tho. Foxley is no longer to retain the same Place; but that he forthwith remove himself thence, as by the Foundation and Statutes of the Hospital, and, as the Lords conceive, according to the Intent of the Order for Sequestration, he ought to do."

Report of the Conference for excluding those Members who have deserted the Houses.

Next, the Speaker reported the Conference formerly with the House of Commons, concerning the Alterations in the Ordinance for the excluding of the Members of either House of Parliament, and the not re-admitting them without the Consent of both Houses; that the House of Commons do not agree with their Lordships in the Alterations.

To be taken into Consideration To-morrow Morning.

Message from the H. C. for a further Conference about drawing up Propositions for a Peace.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Pye Knight, and others:

To desire a Conference, so soon as it may stand with their Lordships Convenience, concerning the late Conference concerning Propositions for Peace.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a present Conference, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber

Ordinance for cutting Timber, to the Amount of 3000 l. on Ld. Petre's Estate, to be paid to Colonel Harvey.

The Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, being informed that the Arrears due to Colonel Edmond Harvy, and his Regiment of Horse, for the Service already done for the State, amount to a great Sum of Money; and that they have taken a Resolution forthwith to advance again, for the Defence of the true Protestant Religion, Laws, and Liberties of the Land, if his Regiment be recruited; have Ordained, and be it Ordained by the said Lords and Commons, That Three Thousand Pounds shall, with all possible Speed, be raised towards the Recruit and Payment of the said Arrears, by Sale of Woods belonging to the Lord Petre, in the County of Essex, whose Estate is sequestered for his Delinquency; and the Standing Committee in Essex, or any Three of them, are hereby required and authorized to design, out of the said Woods, such Underwoods and decayed Trees to be felled, as shall amount to the said Sum of Three Thousand Pounds; and the Monies to be made thereof, for Discharge of the said Sum, shall be to the said Colonel, or whom he shall nominate and appoint, by Warrant under his Hand and Seal, and not otherwise disposed of; before the said Sum be paid accordingly; and, that the said Underwoods and decayed Trees may be sold to the best Advantage, the said Committee in Essex, or any Three of them, are desired to appoint some fit Person or Persons, to be Overseer or Overseers in the said Work, who may and are hereby required to certify the said Committee, from Time to Time, of their Proceedings: And be it hereby further Ordained, That all Persons to be employed by Colonel Harvy, for managing the Premises, shall have Power to fell, fell, and carry away, such Woods and Trees as shall be designed by the said Committee to be felled, till the said Sum of Three Thousand Pounds, with the necessary Charges to be expended concerning the same, be fully satisfied, whereof the said Colonel and his Agents are to give a true Accompt; and the said Committee and their Agents, and Colonel Harvy and his Agents, and all Persons whatsoever to be employed for felling, selling, buying, and carrying away the said Trees and Woods, by Authority of this Ordinance, shall be secured and saved harmless, against the Lord Petre, and all other Persons pretending to have Right to the Premises, or any Part thereof: And it is further Ordained, by the said Lords and Commons, That all Deputy Lieutenants, Colonels, Captains, and Officers of the Trained Bands of the said County, and all other Officers and Soldiers, are hereby required to be aiding and assisting, for the better Execution of this Ordinance."

The Judges this Day reported their Certificate concerning the Hospital of Eastham; which was read, as followeth:

Eastham Poor.

"According to your Lordships Order of the 11th of December last, made in the Cause concerning the Poor Almsmen of Eastham, in the County of Essex, we have heard the Counsel on either Part, and have considered of the Question upon the Statute of 43 Eliz. for Charitable Uses, to us by the said Order referred; and we do humbly certify our Opinions to be, That, upon an Appeal to the Lord Keeper upon that Statute, and a Decree made by his Lordship in Chancery, adnulling, diminishing, altering, or enlarging a Decree made by Commissioners by virtue of a Commission upon that Statute, if the same Decree so made by his Lordship do not stand with Equity and good Conscience according to the true Intent and Meaning of the Donors and Founders, that the same may, notwithstanding any Thing contained in that Statute, be reversed in Parliament, in such Course and Manner as any other Decree made in the Court of Chancery may be by Course of Parliament reversed; which, nevertheless, we submit to your Lordships Judgement.

15 April, 1644.

"Tho. Trevor.
Edm. Reve.
Fra. Bacon.
Ralph Whitfield.

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9 ^a cras.