Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 62, 1830. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London.
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Die Mercurii, 31 Martii 1830.
Can you state the Grievances which are detailed in that Petition? The first Grievance appears to be a Complaint with respect to their being destitute of any Rule of Civil Law; will you explain how that operates upon the Petitioners?
Just so; which throws us upon the Mofussil Courts, the Proceedings of which are regulated by the Mohamedan Law. As Christians, we cannot avail ourselves of the Mohamedan Civil Law, though we are subject to the Criminal Code. The Mohamedan Civil Code does not apply to us as Christians, though we are subject to the Lash of the Criminal Law.
To the Sudder Dewanny Adawlut in Calcutta, but not to the Supreme Court. The Question was tried in the Year 1821; and it was the Opinion of the Judges that we could not claim a Right of Appeal to the Supreme Court.
In that Petition there is a Complaint that from all the superior and covenanted Offices, as well as all the sworn Offices of the Marine, the Petitioners have been excluded by the positive Regulation of the Company?
There is a certain Class of Situations which are confined by Usage to the Natives of the Country, in which we have no Share or Part whatever. It would be considered irregular to appoint us to these Situations.
There were some of our Class who were admitted, both into the Civil and Military Service, prior to the Prohibition; the Quartermaster General of the Army, for instance, who is an East Indian, but he was admitted prior to the Year 1791; and there is Mr. Achmuty, of the Civil Service, who was also admitted prior to the prohibitory Regulation.
Yes; should any Disturbance arise, or any War break out, they are required to return to the Company's Territories. The Mahratta Officers who were employed in the Years 1801 and 1802 were invited back to the Company's Territories upon the Promise of being pensioned. There were some who availed themselves of the Pension, and came to the Company's Territories; there were others who were barbarously murdered by the Native Princes the Moment they came to the Knowledge of the Circumstances.
With regard to our not being employed by the Native States, I know of some Instances were a Penalty Bond has been taken from Persons going out from this Country to India, under Two Securities, that they should not enter into the Service of the Native States. East Indians who have come to England for Education, when they have applied for Permission to return to their Native Country, have been allowed to do so, but under a Penalty Bond that they should not enter into the Service of any Native State.
I should think that the Number would not be underrated if I estimated it at about 20,000, more or less, in Calcutta and all the Provinces. There was a Police Committee Report made in the Year 1822; and the Christian Population in Calcutta was estimated at 13,138, of which there were 2,254 Europeans; consequently we are included in the Remainder, that is about 10,884. The Number must have increased considerably since 1822.
Will you turn to the Act of Parliament of the 53d Geo. 3d, Cap. 155, and state what Enactment is contained in that Clause with regard to Criminal Offences committed by British Subjects in the Provinces?
By this it appears they are subject to be punished for any Offence, not being Felony, by the Magistrates of the Zillah Courts. I do not know that that has ever been put into practice, which made me doubt the Fact.
You have stated, that although subjected to the Mohamedan Criminal Law, you are not permitted to avail yourselves of the Mohamedan Civil Law, being Christians; will you state under what Civil Law you consider yourself to be placed in the Province?
What I meant to say was this; that, as Christians, the Mohamedan Civil Law does not apply to us, so as to render it desirable for us to avail ourselves of it. It is exclusively applicable to Mohamedans; it applies to their Case, not to the Case of Christians. It is a singular Anomaly, that a Christian Subject under the British Government should be subject to the Mohamedan Civil Code. The Mohamedan Civil Code goes entirely upon the Principles of the Religion professed; it is based entirely upon the Koran.
Are you acquainted with Regulation III. of the Year 1793, by which all Natives and other Persons not British Subjects are amenable to the Jurisdiction of the Zillah and City Courts, and those Courts are empowered to take cognizance of all Suits and Complaints respecting the Succession or Right to Real or Personal Property, Lands, Rents, Revenues, Debts, Accounts, Contracts, Partnerships, Marriage, Caste, Claims to Damages for Injuries, and generally all Suits and Complaints of a Civil Nature. By the same Regulation, in Cases coming within the Jurisdiction of those Courts for which no specific Rule may exist, the Judges are to act according to Justice and Equity and good Conscience. By the same Regulation, in Suits regarding Succession, Inheritance, Marriage and Caste, and all Religious Usages and Institutions, the Mohamedan Laws with respect to Mohamedans, and the Hindoo Laws with regard to Hindoos, are to be considered as the general Laws by which the Judges are to form their Decisions. Do you apprehend that under that Regulation any Christian engaged in a Civil Suit would be obliged to have that Suit determined according to the Law which was solely applicable to a Mohamedan?
Supposing a Person of the Half-blood to be the Son of a Hindoo Mother, do you apprehend that that Person would be considered as a Mohamedan, and that his Civil Suit would be tried according to the Mohamedan Law?
It may be so; but that is a very dubious Principle; and it would be left entirely to the Magistrate's own Sense of Justice, or his own Feelings on the Subject. The Magistrate may certainly act upon the new Principle with regard to Christians, if so inclined.
I have not resided in the Mofussil, and therefore my Acquaintance with the Practice of those Courts is very limited; but what we complain of is the Principle of the Thing, more than the Practice: the Principle is odious.
There must be about 500 or 600 in the Military Orphan School (the Upper and Lower Orphan School); perhaps 800, including both Sexes. There are about 130 or 140 Boys in the Parental Academic Institution, and about Forty or Fifty in the Grammar School; and there are private Schools besides.
No, there are not; unless it is the Bishop's College, which is confined to Missionary Purposes. The Parental Academic Institution has done a great deal in that way; it has succeeded to a happy Extent in raising the Tone of Education in the Country.
Some Persons of Half-blood being educated as you have mentioned, and fit for higher Situations than those they can now hold; there are others, are there not, who have no Education, and who are in a State of great Destitution?
Can you state with any degree of Accuracy the Proportion which Persons in that State of Destitution, the Sons of common Soldiers, and Persons of very low Condition, bear to the more educated Class of which you have spoken?
I am not aware of any; there may be some solitary Instances. I understand, but I do not know how far it is true, that there are some Europeans residing in the Interior, who, seeing the Disadvantages under which their Offspring labour, have preferred bringing them up as Mohamedans. I have understood that there are some Cases of that kind in the Interior.
In the Petition which has been presented, it is stated, that by an Enactment of the Local Government they have, as belonging to the above-mentioned Class, that is the Class of Hindoos and Mohamedans, been deprived as a Body of the Protection of the Act of Habeas Corpus; and the Regulation to which Reference is made in the Margin is Regulation III. of 1818. Is not that a Regulation for the Confinement of State Prisoners?
Yes; there were Three different Applications made to the Government: One was for the Supply of Medicines for the Parental Academic Institution, and Two Applications for pecuniary Assistance; but they were one and all refused.
Would not that Assistance, if it had been afforded, have been as valuable, from the Sanction that it would have afforded to the Schools, as from the Amount of pecuniary Aid that might have been obtained?
Certainly. It is a Thing for which the Natives themselves cannot account, that the Government should reject, as it does, their own Christian Offspring, and treat them with marked Neglect and Proscription.
Do you not think that the disadvantageous Situation in which they are now placed in the Provincial Courts of Law is extremely unfavourable to their Employment and the Means of investing Capital in those Situations?
I cannot form any precise Idea of it; but the Population has increased very rapidly within the last Fifteen or Twenty Years, and is still increasing. The full Tide of our Population has flowed in, and must increase; there is no stopping it.
The same. My Opinion of the Education in Calcutta is such, that, having brought Two of my own Sons to England for Education, and not being satisfied with what I have seen in this Country, it is my Intention to take them back again to be educated in Calcutta. I give the Preference to an Education in Calcutta; that is, I see no Necessity for the Sacrifice of tearing Children from their Parents, and sending them away to England for Education.
Do you not think, then, that if the Restrictions under which they now labour were removed, their Proficiency in the Native Languages would give them a very considerable Advantage over every other Description of Inhabitants of India?
Certainly; as Natives of the Country, and as Fixtures of the Soil, they might be rendered Instruments of great Good to the Country. If the real Interests of India be sought, those Interests cannot be more effectually promoted than through the Instrumentality of those who have been born, educated, and have spent their Lives in the Country; that is my firm Opinion.
You state in that that the Rule and Regulation of the Government of The East India Company has, by clear and express Declaration, included your Petitioners in the Class of Native Subjects of the British Government. Is the Offspring of European Fathers and of Indian Mothers, supposing a Marriage to have taken place, classed by those Regulations as Native Subjects of the British Government?
Is it not the Case as to the illegitimate Son of an Hindoo Mother by an European Father, in the Case of his Civil Affairs they would be governed by the Hindoo Code; and if the Son of a Mohamedan Mother by an European Father, then by the Mohamedan Code?
Would the Appointment of Persons of your Class to Offices from which they are at present excluded raise their Respectability in the Eyes of the Natives, or would it be seen by them in an unfavourable Light?
It would raise them in the Estimation of the Natives, who are at all Times disposed to identify them with their Fathers; and it is the marked Distinction that prevails which attracts their Notice; it is a Thing for which they cannot account.
Coupling it with the general Tenor of the Company's Policy towards our Class, it could have made no other but that one Impression, that the Refusal was grounded on the Application having come from our Class, and from the Institution in fact being an Institution that originated with and was supported by our Class.
I remember Doctor Marshman having made an Application for pecuniary Assistance for the Benevolent Institution, and that Application was complied with; and Mr. Thomason having made an Application for the Female Asylum, which was also complied with, and the Government made a similar Grant to other Institutions, in consequence of Applications from Europeans in their Behalf; such as the Free School and some others.
No, I did not. There is one Circumstance that I omitted to state, which is this, that many of my Countrymen have been educated in England, Scotland and Ireland, but on their going back to India they have been so much disappointed at the State of Things that they have in many Instances returned to Europe to seek a Livelihood, finding that the Door was completely shut against them in their own Native Country. I mean Men of the first-rate Education.
Yes, in some Cases. There was the Son of a General Officer, who returned in the Year 1825; he had obtained the Diploma of Doctor of Medicine, and went out to practise, but he found that the State of Society was such as to compel him to return to Europe, and I believe he is now practising in this Country. There have been some other Instances of this kind.
Not altogether excluded; but they have soon been able to feel the Public Pulse on the Subject, and they could not brook any thing of that kind, and they would therefore much rather return to Europe than drag out an uncomfortable Existence like that in India.
On the Western Coast principally; in the Malabar Province. From 1798 to 1808 I was employed in the Revenue Department, as above; from 1808 to 1816 in the Capacity of Zillah Judge, first of the Zillah Court of Tillicherry, and afterwards of Mangalore; from 1816 to 1824 as Third Judge of the Provincial Court of Circuit and Appeal in the Western Division; from 1824 to 1827 as Principal Collector and Political Agent of the Southern Mahratta Country; and from 1827 to 1828 (January 30) as Chief Judge of the Provincial Court of Circuit and Appeal in the Western Division.
By Hindoos and Mohamedans, and a great many Christians. I can give the Average of the Number. The different Classes of the Hindoos, I apprehend, are about Four Fifths of the whole Population, the Mohamedans nearly One Fifth. There are about 10,000 Christians altogether in Malabar, and about 50,000 in Canara. The Mohamedans differ from those of Hindostan or the Carnatic; they are called Mopillas, Anglicè, Sons of their Mothers.
They are divided and subdivided. There are Estates so small as to produce hardly a Rupee a Year Patom or Rent; on the other Hand, there are Estates which produce perhaps from 5,000 to 10,000 Rupees. Some Individuals possess from Ten to One hundred Estates; the Zamorin Rajah for instance: his Domains (Crown Lands) probably bring him a Revenue of from 20,000 to 50,000 Rupees a Year; I cannot exactly mention the Amount, for they are distributed all over the Country.
Yes; but there are Two Descriptions of Tenants; what are called the Jelm, or permanent Hereditary Tenants, and the temporary, or Tenants at Will. In Canara the former are called Moolgueny, or Hereditary, and the latter Chaly Gueny; in Malabar the former are called Jelm Patom and Jelm Koori, the latter Koori Kanum, or simply Patamkar. Jelm, as I have before said, means Birthright.
Very considerable; so much so that almost an entire Revolution has taken place in Property, owing to these and Sales in Execution of Judgments of Courts, within the last Thirty Years. When they have been sold, many of them have not fetched One Fifth of their Value; that is, original Cost.
No. In the first instance his Person was liable, then his moveable Property; every Article of every Description, every thing which could be laid hold of, was seized and sold; and that failing, then the Land; even Slaves have been sold the same as Cattle.
The same as all other Persons, but none in consequence of his having been the former Tenant or Proprietor; he came into the Market in the same Manner as other Persons, but not in consequence of any former inherent Right.
Reports and Recommendations were sent up to the Government, and more especially by Mr. Græme; and Regulations were drawn out, also Surveys were made, which were about to have beer acted upon, but there were Objections to them on the Part of the People.
Not so much so as at the present Moment; the Country had been a Prey to intestine Wars and Rebellions for Years, and in consequence a great Part of the Population had fled to the Cochin and Travancore Countries, nearly all of whom have since returned.
They were; but they are not now Half what they were, in consequence of the Monopoly of Timber by the Government, who assumed and declared the Forests to be Royalties, instead of which, those in Malabar have been purchased or inherited in the same Way as every other Description of Landed Property.
They were for some Years. I have seen several Applications, both to the Bombay and Madras Governments, requesting Permission to fell Timber themselves, or to purchase Timber of the original Proprietors; which Requests were invariably refused, on the Ground that the Timber was required for Naval Purposes.
She had previous to the Monopoly Nine; she has now Four or Five. Chowakkara Kunhy Packey, the Heir of old Moossa, a Man well known on the Western Coast, had Twelve; that is, Moossa himself had. These are reduced, I think, to Seven. I can mention their Names and Burthen.
At one Time, from Twenty to Thirty of from One hundred to Five hundred Tons Burthen, belonging to the above Two Persons and other Ship Owners; besides which there were other Descriptions of Vessels, such as Botillas, Dows, Dingeys, and Patamars and Munchoos.
Yes; and some of the largest of them go up to Mocha, Judda and other Places in the Red Sea; also to Muscat, Bushire and Bussora, in the Persian Gulf; Porabunder, Cambay, Cutch, Sind, and a long Way up the Indus.
No; I am not aware of any Communication with the Punjab Rivers. They go up the Indus; but I am not aware of their going there further than that. I know that Peishwoor Merchants have come down in Sind Boats.
Pepper, Cardamums, Rice, Paddy, (or Rice in the Husk,) Grain of all Descriptions, Arrow Root, Ginger, Cocoa Nuts, Kopra, (Kernel of the Cocoa Nut,) Cocoa Nut Oil, and Coir, which is made from the Fibres of the Cocoa Nut. The Value of the Produce of the Cocoa Nut Tree alone, exported from the Western Coast, is supposed to be an Hundred Lacs of Rupees.
From Cochin, Chowgaut, Panany, Tanore, Perperangady, Beypoor, Calicut or Kohicote, Quilandy, (which is a favourite Arab Port,) Kotah, Barragurry, Mahe, Tellicherry, Cananore, Cavai, Bekklum, Mangalore, Cundapore, Onore, Cumpty, Seedashagur, besides numerous intermediate Ports.
Coffee, Dates, and Gold Dust; Almonds, Kissmisses, (dried Grapes,) Prunes, Gums, Drugs, Perfumes, Elephants Teeth. There are several others which I cannot call to Recollection at this Moment; but chiefly, however, they bring Specie, in Venetians or Sequins and Dollars.
No, I am not aware of any Impediment. I have often talked to the Sind Merchants whom I have met with at Tellicherry, Calicut, and Mangalore, but I have never been apprized of any particular Difficulties.
Precisely the same. What is called the Civil Law is the Local Law of Malabar and Canara, called Deshachari, which differs entirely from the ancient Hindoo Law as contained in their Shasters, named Iruti, Dherma Shastra, Mimamsa, Dya Bhaga, &c.; for instance, the Local Law of Succession, Descent and Inheritance is totally distinct, perhaps peculiar to the Western Coast, where Property descends, not from the Mother to the Son, but the Sister's Sons, and those failing to the Aunts on the Mother's Side and their Descendants. This is called Maramakatajum; AnglicÀ, Nepotism.
It depends upon who the Purchaser was; if a Hindoo, or Mopilla following the Local Law, it is in his Gift; or it may go in the Way the Property was inherited, provided it can be ascertained or proved that it was purchased with the Proceeds of the Hereditary Property. The senior Male of the Family is generally considered as the Manager, although properly speaking the senior Female is the lawful Proprietor. The Cananore Beebee, for instance, also the Ranny or Queen of Travancore, under the Name of Attinga Umma Tamburattes. Treaties, every thing of Importance, is or should be done in her Name, though the Rajah her Son is the ruling Rajah. The Husband or Father are never mentioned, and with the Hindoo Rajahs perhaps not known.
Always with the Hindoos, excepting the Brahmins, in the Female Line; but the Sons of the Females are the Managers of the Property. One of the most reproachful Terms in Malabar is calling a Man Appa; Anglicè, Father.
There were what were called Sabbahs, or Assemblages of influential Men, though not exactly of the Nature of Punchayets; but in point of fact there was no regular Administration of Criminal Justice at any Time.
Are there Persons better educated in Malabar, possessed of more Property, and altogether really more fit to perform the Duties of a Juryman, than there are in other Parts of India with which you are acquainted?
The only Parts of India I can speak to are the Southern Mahratta Country; that is, the Country from the Kistna River down to the Toongbudra, comprising a Population of about a Million and a Half of Souls; and the Western Coast Provinces, composing a Population of between Two and Three Millions. I should say decidedly that the People of Malabar were the most intelligent and best informed of any Natives I have ever met with.
Yes, frequently. When I was senior Judge of the Provincial Court of the Western Division, I was particularly directed to ascertain the Feeling of the People upon that Question. I have now brought with me Two Letters I received from Mr. Græme, the then Acting Governor of Madras, upon the Subject, which I can produce, if it is desired.
"Your Opinion has always been in favour of the Independence, the Intelligence and the general good Character of the Inhabitants of Malabar; and you have always wished to raise them to the Possession of all Rights and Privileges that might be consistent with a due Subordination to the Government, and that would add to their Moral Happiness; you will therefore, I think, read with Pleasure the enclosed Draft of a Regulation preparing to establish Juries. It is thought better to confine them at present to those Places where the Zeal, the Ability and the Concurrence of the presiding Judge in the Expediency of the Measure may hold out the most rational prospect of its Success, and I am naturally anxious to know the Sentiments of one in every way so well qualified as yourself to give Effect to an important Institution, if you think it adapted to the State of Malabar. By your Answer I shall be determined on the Propriety, or otherwise, of proposing to extend the Jury Regulation to Malabar."
"It gives me great Pleasure that you take up the Jury Regulation with your characteristic Ardour, for there can be little Doubt that with your Talent and perfect Knowledge of the Language and Character of the Malabar People, and your Partiality for them, the Measure will succeed in your Hands. The Regulation, modified by the Sudder, and sanctioned by Government, will be published in a few Days; when, upon expressing your Sentiments officially, the Government will be enabled to use the Discretion vested by the Regulation, by directing its being introduced into Malabar, when you may be known to be presiding at the Quarter Sessions."
It did. I have a Copy of the Regulation which was subsequently passed by The Governor in Council. There were some Objections made after Sir Thomas Munro's Death, and it was never, in consequence, carried into Effect. I can give your Lordships an Account how this Jury Regulation commenced, if it is wished. Two Judges of the Centre Division, of the Names of Newnham and Dacre, gave in a Minute to the late Governor Sir Thomas Munro, proposing the Introduction of Trial by Native Juries. The Grounds were as follow:-To remedy the double Inconvenience arising from the Foreign Origin of both English Judges and Mohamedan Law Officers, and to remove the Niceties of the Law, or rather Scruples of the Law Officers, in respect to Evidence, and generally to facilitate the Dispensation of Criminal Justice. So imperfect was the Law itself, (the Mohamedan Law,) and so utterly ignorant were the Mohamedans themselves of their own Law under the Madras Presidency, that it was found necessary to import Mohamedan Law Officers from Bengal, Hindostan, Oude, Surat, &c. into the Madras Presidency, on the first Establishment of the Judicial Code. Moreover, those Mohamedan Law Officers, so imported from Bengal, Hindostan, &c. laboured under the Disadvantage of being totally ignorant of the local or vernacular Tongues of the different Provinces wherein they were employed; and it became necessary, in consequence, to interpret and translate into Persian the Proceedings held in those Languages, for their Use. The subsequent Modifications of the Mohamedan Law, introduced in the Judicial Code at the Suggestion of the European Judges, almost superseded the Mohamedan Law altogether; for instance, where a Man was convicted of having seriously wounded, or of having robbed by open Violence, the Code of Regulations of the Madras Government fixed the Punishment. Of what Use then, these Gentlemen asked, was it to apply to the Law Officer for his Scruples, that the Court might overrule them? In Cases where the Punishment was not specified, or the Offence not provided for, a Reference might then be necessary to the Law Officer; not however for the Fact, for that could be decided by the Jury, (for at present the Mohamedan Law Officers are Judges both of the Fact and of the Law under the Madras Presidency, and under the Bombay Presidency they are merely the Judges of the Law,) but as to the Law itself, (as an abstract Question;) consequently no Necessity could exist for Persian Translates of the Record. Doubtful Points of Evidence might also be referred to the Law Officers. Juries would be no Innovation; on the contrary, would approximate the Administration during the Native Government, by Sabbahs, or Convocations of their Countrymen. The absurd Objections to the Evidence of Police Officers would no longer exist; the innocent would be secure from falling Victims to false Prosecutions; and the really guilty would find it more difficult to escape than at present. Such were, as I understood, the principal Arguments of the Two Gentlemen above mentioned. Sir Thomas Munro's (the late Governor of Madras) Arguments were, that the Way to extend the Knowledge of the People, and to elevate the Native Character, would be, by bringing them into contact with ourselves in every Department, in order that they might perceive and understand the enlarged Views of Europeans in all Matters of Government; that the Natives themselves are much better able to trace Facts and judge of the Credibility of Evidence than ourselves or Mohamedan Law Officers; that long Experience had shewn how utterly unsuited the present System of Criminal Law was to the Circumstances of the People, or Wants of the Country. He observed also on the absurd Scruples of Mohamedan Law Officers; on the Delays and Waste of Time in recording and translating Evidence, and preparing Trials for reference to the Foujdarry Adawlut, (the Superior Court at the Presidency.) He further observed as to the superior Competence of Judges presiding on Trials over those of the Foujdarry Adawlut of the Presidency, from the Circumstance of the latter not seeing or hearing the Evidence. He adverted to the Objections raised by the Mohamedan Law Officers in regard to the Inadmissibility of the Evidence of Police Officers because in the Pay of Government, also of those of the Inhabitants who were engaged in Conflicts with Offenders. All which, and other similar Objections, would be obviated by Trial by Jury. Furthermore, he thought that public Curiosity would be excited by Native Juries; that the Courts would be crowded; and that the consequent Presence of their Countrymen would operate as a Check upon Jurymen being partial. The above Views and Opinions having been concurred in by the Acting Governor, Mr. Græme, a Reference was made to the Foujdarry Adawlut, by whom a revised Regulation for the Trial by Jury was submitted, on the 6th of September 1827, professedly as calculated to facilitate the Operation of the Jury System. The Judges, in re-transmitting it, observed, that they had consulted several highly intelligent Natives, who had given their readiest Aid and much useful Information to them. In their Alterations of the Draft of the Regulation sent them by Government they raised the Allowance to Jurors from Half to One Rupee per Day; observing that the Difference of Expence would not be worthy of Consideration, compared to the Saving in translating and in transcribing the Proceedings, and in preparing and reporting upon referable Trials to themselves. To that Part of the Regulation that empowered the Foujdarry Adawlut to quash the Verdict of a Jury, they thought that a new Trial was preferable; and that it would be better, in order to provide against unjust Verdicts, that a sovereign Power of Pardon should be lodged in The Governor in Council. They concluded their Observations by an Opinion that, though the Regulation was not perfect, it would still, in its present Form, work well in Practice; and they had no doubt that Trial by Jury would be popular and successful beyond even the Expectations of Government. After Sir Thomas Munro's Death, Sir George Walker, the Commander-in-Chief, and Mr. Ogilvie, Third Member of Council, expressed some Doubts of the Policy and Expediency of the Introduction of Trial by Jury. Sir George Walker observed, that Punchayet Arbitrations were such a Decision as might have been come to by drawing Straws, provided, that is, neither Party were bribed; that he himself had no Confidence in the Integrity of Persons to be employed as Jurors; and he did not conceive the Character of the People would be raised by this Mode of distributing Justice. He concurred in Sir Thomas Munro's Observations regarding Mohamedan Law Officers, and was at a loss to understand upon what Principle such a Personage was ever introduced. Mr. Ogilvie did not think the Natives were morally fit to discharge the Duty with Integrity and Impartiality. He apprehended that they would consider it a great Inconvenience to be put upon Juries; and that their Caste Prejudices might interfere; for instance, that Brahmins would not be convicted of any Crime the Punishment of which would expose them to Infamy or Degradation; also Sectarism, such as the Right Hand and Left Hand Castes. Notwithstanding which, he still thought that the proposed Measure of Trial by Jury offered the most efficacious Means of remedying the Defects of the present System. Mr. Græme, the Second Member of the Council's Opinions were in entire Accordance with Sir Thomas Munro's. After this, on the 11th of September 1827, a Regulation, No.X. A.D. 1827, "for the gradual Introduction of Trial by Jury," was passed by The Governor in Council. Nothing appears to have been done until after Mr. Lushington's assuming Charge of the Government. In December 1827 he recorded his View of the Jury Regulation; in the course of which he observed that the most remarkable Feature was the Precipitancy with which this great Change in the Administration had been introduced; that, in disregard of all the wholesome Restraints of the Regulations, neither the Provincial or the Sudder Courts had maturely examined and discussed the Subject; and the Regulation had been passed in Defiance of the Commander-in-Chief's earnest Entreaty, that the Board would pause before it authorized a Plan replete with so much Mischief. Mr. Lushington thereupon proposed that a Reference be made to all the Judicial Officers and the Principal Collectors for their Sentiments, until which were received the Regulation be suspended. Mr. Græme, Second Member of Council, dissented from the above, and amongst other Observations stated, that the Judges of the Foujdarry Adawlut had expressed themselves decidedly in favour of the Trial by Jury. The Commander-in-Chief and Mr. Ogilvie approved of Mr. Lushington's Proposition to take the Opinion of the Judicial Officers generally; and, in consequence, References were made to the whole of them, and certain Questions were circulated for their Answers. Having shortly after this left India, what has since taken place I only know from Report. With respect to my own Sentiments, it has always appeared to me that the most powerful Engine that could be devised to secure the Popularity and Permanency of our Government in India, would be, by the Introduction of Trial by Jury. A large Portion of the People would not only be introduced to a partial Acquaintance with the Laws, but Self-importance and Vanity would be gratified, by the Notion that those who were engaged as Jurors participated in the Administration of the Laws, and consequently in the Support and Management of Public Affairs. That this Participation and this Conviction (so long only, that is, as they maintained the Character of Integrity and Impartiality,) would be the Means of instilling and rendering habitual to their Minds more settled Notions of Rectitude than have hitherto prevailed. That the true Merits of a Case would be much better known by the Natives themselves than by ourselves, much less by Mohamedan Law Officers. Sentences would be much more popular, and even Punishments more striking and exemplary, than they are under the present System. At all events, that this Advantage would be gained, that if Injustice is done, if the innocent do suffer, or the guilty do escape Punishment, the Odium would be transferred from ourselves to the Natives themselves; and though last not the least important Consideration, the Saving in Judicial Establishments, both European and Native, in the whole of the Courts of Justice would be considerable.