House of Lords Journal Volume 64: 13 July 1832

Die Veneris, 13° Julii 1832.

DOMINI tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Shaftesbury sat Speaker by virtue of a former Commission.

The Atty Genl v. Brazen Nose College.

The Answer of The Principal and Scholars of King's Hall and College of Brazen Nose in Oxford, Governors of the Free School of Queen Elizabeth in Middleton, to the Petition and Appeal of His Majesty's Attorney General, at the Relation of Edward Lord Suffield and Alexander Nowell Esquire, was this Day brought in.

E. of Mansfield v. Scott.

As was also, The Answer of Ralph Scott to the Petition and Appeal of William Earl of Mansfield.

Marqs of Londonderry et Ux. Leave for a Bill:

After reading and considering the Report of the Judges, to whom was referred the Petition of The Most Honorable Charles William Vane Marquis of Londonderry and The Most Honorable Frances Anne Vane Marchioness of Londonderry his Wife; praying Leave to bring in a Private Bill for the Purposes therein mentioned:

It is Ordered, That Leave be given to bring in a Bill, pursuant to the said Petition and Report.

Bill read:

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for settling certain Manors and Estates in the County of Durham to the Uses of the Marriage Settlement of The Most Honorable Charles William Vane Marquis of Londonderry and The Most Honorable Frances Anne Vane Marchioness of Londonderry his Wife; and for other Purposes therein mentioned."

Bill referred to Judges in Ireland, to take a Consent:

Ordered, That a printed Copy of the last-mentioned Bill, attested by the Clerk of the Parliaments, be, and the same is hereby referred to The Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas in Ireland, and Mr. Justice Torrens, in Ireland, or the Two going Judges of Assize on the North-east Circuit, who are forthwith to summon Edmund M'Donnell Esquire, now in Ireland, and to take his Consent to the said Bill, and receive his Acceptance of the Trust thereby proposed to be vested in him, and thereafter to report to the House, under their Hands, whether the said Edmund M'Donnell has appeared before them the said Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas and Mr. Justice Torrens, or the said Two going Judges of Assize on the North-east Circuit, and consented to the same and accepted the said Trust; and that the said Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas and Mr. Justice Torrens, or the said Two going Judges, as the Case may be, do sign the said printed Copy of the said Bill.

Earl Vane signifies his Consent to the Bill.

The Earl Vane, in his Place, signified his Consent, for himself and on behalf of his infant Children, to the lastmentioned Bill.

Union of Parishes (Ireland) Bill.

The House (according to Order) was adjourned during Pleasure, and put into a Committee upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act to amend an Act of the Seventh and Eighth Years of the Reign of His late Majesty King George the Fourth, relating to the Union of Parishes in Ireland."

After some Time, the House was resumed:

And The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Committee, "That they had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

Gibson v. Kirkland & Sharpe, Petition to revive Appeal, referred to Appeal Com ee.

Upon reading the Petition of Alexander M'Kenzie Kirkland, Merchant in Glasgow, Miss Ann Kirkland, residing there, and Kenneth William Kirkland, Merchant there, Children of the deceased John Kirkland, late Merchant in Glasgow, One of the Respondents in a Cause depending in this House, wherein Archibald Gibson Esquire is Appellant, and the said John Kirkland and John Ferguson Sharpe were Defendants; praying, "That their Lordships will be pleased to order that the Petitioners may be made Parties Respondents in the said Appeal, as the personal Representatives of the said deceased John Kirkland:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Appeal Committee.

Hamilton v. Bennet et al. Respondents Petition for Time for their Case, referred to Appeal Com ee.

Upon reading the Petition of The Reverend George Bennet, and others, Respondents in a Cause depending in this House, to which John Hamilton is Appellant; praying, "That their Lordships will be pleased to permit their Case to be lodged within a Week:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Appeal Committee.

Remedies against the Hundred Bill reported:

The Order of the Day being read for the House to be put into a Committee upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act to extend the Provisions of an Act of the Seventh and Eighth Years of the Reign of His late Majesty King George the Fourth, relative to Remedies against the Hundred;" and for the Lords to be summoned;

The House was accordingly adjourned during Pleasure, and put into a Committee upon the said Bill.

After some Time, the House was resumed:

And The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Committee, "That they had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

Order for 3 a.

Ordered, That the said Bill be read the Third Time on Monday next.

Com ee on West India Colonies, Witnesses to attend.

Ordered, That The Reverend Mr. Thorp do attend this House on Tuesday next, to be sworn, in order to his being examined as a Witness before the Select Committee on the State of the West India Colonies.

Ordered, That The Reverend Mr. Cooper do attend this House on Monday next, to be sworn, in order to his being examined as a Witness before the last-mentioned Committee.

Slavery, Petition from Brunswick Chapel, Mile End Road, for Abolition of.

Upon reading the Petition of The Reverend George Evans Minister, and the Members of the Congregation of Protestant Dissenters of the Independent Denomination worshipping in Brunswick Chapel, Mile End Road, in the Parish of Stepney, in the County of Middlesex, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "for the early and entire Emancipation of all Slaves throughout the British Empire:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Roman Catholics Bequests Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Bernal and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for the better securing the Charitable Donations and Bequests of His Majesty's Subjects in Great Britain professing the Roman Catholic Religion;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Bill was read the First Time.

Ordered, That the said Bill be printed.

Valuation of Lands (Ireland) Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Bernal and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act to amend Two Acts, of the Seventh Year of the Reign of His late Majesty King George the Fourth, and in the First and Second Years of the Reign of His present Majesty, for the uniform Valuation of Lands and Tenements in the several Baronies, Parishes and other Divisions of Counties in Ireland;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Bill was read the First Time.

Ordered, That the said Bill be printed.

Brodie's Estate Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Bernal and others;

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act to invest a Part of the Entailed Estates of Brodie and others, in the Counties of Elgin and Nairn, in Trustees in Fee-Simple, for the Purpose of selling the Lands so vested, and of applying the Price thereof, or the Securities to be granted thereon, towards satisfying Debts, Provisions and others contracted by the Entailer, and for Money laid out by the Heir of Entail in the Improvement of the said Entailed Estates;" and to acquaint this House, That they have agreed to the same, without any Amendment.

Sir T. Slingsby's Estate Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Bernal and others;

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act for exchanging Fee-Simple Estates of Sir Thomas Slingsby Baronet, situate at Scriven, Scotton and Farnham, and in the Parishes of Knaresbrough and Farnham, in the County of York, and not in Settlement, for a Part of his Settled Estate situate at Wollas otherwise Woolhouse, in the Township of Appleton Roebuck and Parish of Bolton Percy, in the County of the City of York; and for charging the Estates taken in Exchange with a Portion for Emma Louisa Catharine Slingsby, the infant Daughter of Charles Slingsby Esquire, deceased;" and to acquaint this House, That they have agreed to the same, without any Amendment.

Ladbroke's Estate Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Bernal and others;

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act to confirm certain Leases granted by James Weller Ladbroke Esquire of Land and Premises at Nottinghill, in the County of Middlesex; and for other Purposes;" and to acquaint this House, That they have agreed to the same, without any Amendment.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure.

The House was resumed by The Lord Chancellor.

Reform (Scotland) Bill read 3 a & passed:

The Order of the Day being read for the Third Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to amend the Representation of the People in Scotland;" and for the Lords to be summoned;

The said Bill was accordingly read the Third Time.

Then the following Amendments were made to the said Bill:

Pr. 45. L. 9. After ("situate") insert ("except only where such Polling Place shall be in an Island distant more than Ten Miles from the Mainland of any County, in which Case the Voters not resident in such Island may poll at the Polling Place for the District in which the County Town is included")

Pr. 53. L. 21. Leave out ("separate")

Then it was moved, "That this Bill, with the Amendments, do pass."

Which being objected to;

After short Debate,

The Question was put thereupon?

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Protests thereupon:

"DISSENTIENT:

"Mansfield. Doncaster.

Melros."

"DISSENTIENT:

"1.-Because the Bill that has just received the Sanction of this House does not do Justice to the fair Claims of Scotland, and has not been framed with a due Reference to the peculiar Situation and Circumstances of that Country: It is believed that at the Time of the Union the Amount of the Scottish Representation was fixed with reference to the Proportion that the combined Population and Revenue of Scotland bore to the Population and Revenue of England. A similar Principle has been followed in framing the disfranchising and enfranchising Schedules in the English Reform Bill. An Adherence to this just Rule on the present Occasion would have added probably Eighteen or Twenty Members, instead of Eight, to the Numbers composing the new Representation of Scotland.

"2.-Because great Attention having been paid to the Claims of large, populous and wealthy Counties in England, many of the greatest and wealthiest and most populous Scottish Counties have been left by this Bill with an inadequate and scanty Representation.

"3.-Because the Combination of Land and House Property in the Construction of the County Qualification would seem to have been adopted without due Consideration of the Nature and Condition of Landed Tenures in Scotland, and of the Numbers and Circumstances of the Constituency thereby about to be established. This Part of the System, founded in apparent Ignorance of the Circumstances that ought to have determined the Principles and Details of such an Arrangement, is likely to impair the just and wholesome Influence of the Landed and Agricultural Interest, and of those Persons of Intelligence and Property adverted to with so much Propriety in the Preamble of the Bill: Whereas with Care and Attention more Ways than One might have been devised of establishing a Sound and Constitutional System of popular Election, whereby the Interests of all Classes would have been consulted, without subjecting the County in so great a Degree to the Chance of Fraud and Litigation, of expensive Contests, and of Bribery and Corruption; Evils hitherto little known in the History of Scotlish County Elections.

"4.-Because the Landed Interest is still further aggrieved by the Denial of all Compensation for the great Loss it will sustain by the Annihilation of the Political Value of Superiorities. The Value of Landed Property throughout Scotland will be thereby greatly deteriorated, and much Injustice done to all Persons and Bodies interested in such Superiorities, and in the Rights hitherto enjoyed under the Law and Constitution of Scotland by Holders of that Description of Property. This Denial is contrary to Justice, to conservative Principles, and to sound Policy.

"5.-Because an immense Change has been suddenly made by this Bill in the Representative Constitution of Scotland, without due Consideration of the probable Effects of this extensive Experiment on the Political Influences and social Relations of that Country, and on the Peace, Property and Happiness of the People.

"6.-Because for these Reasons, and not from any Wish to withhold from the People of Scotland a safe, constitutional and liberal Extension of Political Franchise, which the Circumstances of the present Time render it more expedient to grant, I dissent from the passing of this Bill.

"Melros.

"Mansfield,

"For the first five Reasons.

"Gordon.

"For all the Reasons except the Fourth,

"Rosslyn.

Message to H.C. with Amendments to it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Giffin Wilson and Mr. Roupell;

To return the said Bill, and acquaint them, That the Lords have agreed to the same, with several Amendments, to which their Lordships desire their Concurrence.

Slane Peerage, Com ee put off.

Ordered, That the Sitting of the Committee for Privileges, to whom the Petition of George Bryan of Jenkinstown, in the County of Kilkenny, Esquire, to His Majesty; praying, "That his Claim to the Barony of Slane may be referred to the House of Peers, to report whether the said Title be or be not a Barony in Fee, by Writ of Summons, descendible to Heirs General, and whether the same is or is not now in Abeyance between Edward Lord Dunsany and the Petitioner;" together with His Majesty's Reference thereof to this House, and the Report of The Attorney General thereunto annexed; also the Petition of Henry Fleming of the City of Dublin; also the Petition of James Stewart Fleming of Belville, in the County of Cavan, in Ireland, late a Captain in His Majesty's Army; and also the Petition of James Fleming of Monkstown, in the County of Dublin, Esquire, in relation to the said Claim, stand referred, which stands appointed for Monday next, be put off to Friday next; and that Notice thereof be given to His Majesty's Attorney General for England, and also to His Majesty's Attorney and Solicitor General for Ireland.

Luke et al. v. Hunter et al.

Ordered, That the Cause wherein Adam Luke, and others, are Appellants, and The Reverend John Hunter, and others, are Respondents, be heard by Counsel at the Bar on Monday the 23d of this instant July.

Mangel Wurzel Distillation Bill.

Ordered, That the Bill, intituled, "An Act to permit the Distillation of Spirits from Mangel Wurzel," be read a Second Time on Monday next.

Reform (Scotland) Bill, Time for entering Protests enlarged.

Ordered, That such Lords as may think fit be at liberty to enter their Protests against the passing of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to amend the Representation of the People in Scotland," before the Rising of the House on Monday next, and to sign the same before the Rising of the House on Tuesday next.

Anatomy Bill.

The Order of the Day being read for the Third Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act for regulating Schools of Anatomy;" and for the Lords to be summoned;

Ordered, That the said Bill be read the Third Time on Thursday next; and that the Lords be summoned.

Orders in Council under the Cholera Prevention Acts delivered.

The Lord President laid before the House, pursuant to the Directions of several Acts of Parliament,

"Order of the Lords of the Council to enable the Board of Health at Gainsborough to raise a certain Sum of Money; dated 16th of June 1832:"

Also, "Order of the Lords of the Council to enable the Board of Health at Lincoln to raise Funds; dated 1st of July 1832:"

And also, "Order of the Lords of the Council to enable the Board of Health at Rothesay to raise a Sum of Money; dated 21st of June 1832."

And the Titles thereof being read by the Clerk; Ordered, That the said Papers do lie on the Table. Ordered, That the said Papers be printed.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Lunæ, decimum sextum diem instantis Julii, horâ decimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.