House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 29 March 1645

DIE Sabbati, 29 die Martii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Rayner.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Answers from the H. C.

Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page return with this Answer to the Message sent Yesterday to the House of Commons:

That they will take the Ordinance of additional Power to be given to Sir Tho. Fairefaxe, with the Additions and Alterations, and likewise the Letter from the Parliament of Scotland, [ (fn. 1) into Consideration], and will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Mr. Serjeant Whitfield and Mr. Page return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they agree to the Alterations in the Ordinance concerning the securing of Fourscore Thousand Pounds, lent by the City of London.

Ordinance for the Militia of London to press Men.

Next, was read the Ordinance to authorize the Militia of London to put the Ordinance of 27 Feb. 1644, for impresting of Men, into Execution.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

Ordinance to secure the North Sea Fishery.

Next, an Ordinance (fn. 2) for securing the North Sea Fishing was read, and Agreed to.

(Here enter it.)

Ordinance to swear People from the King's Quarters.

Next, the Ordinance for an Oath to be given to those Persons that come out of the King's Quarters was read.

Gatward, E. of Denbigh's Servant, arrested.

(fn. 3) The Petition of Michaell Gatward, Servant to the Earl of Denbigh, was read; and upon reading an Affidavit of Angelo Stoner, complaining, "That the said Gatward was lately arrested, by one Edmond Gunsmith and another with him, as Marshal's Men, though the Protection of the Earl of Denbigh was shewed to them before he was arrested; yet, in Contempt of the said Protection, they arrested him, and carried him to the Prison of the Marshal's Court."

Delinquents sent for.

Hereupon it is Ordered, That the said Michaell Gatward shall be presently released from his Imprisonment, and be allowed the Privilege of Parliament, as a Servant of the Earl of Denbigh; that the Bailiffs that arrested him, and the Person at whose Suit he was arrested, shall be attached as Delinquents, and brought before this House, to answer the same.

Message from the H. C. for a Conference about Sir T. Fairfax's Ordinance;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Pye Knight, &c.

To desire their Lordships would please to give a present Conference, concerning the Ordinance touching Sir Tho. Fairfaxe.

and with Two for Concurrence.

2. To desire Concurrence in an Ordinance for One Thousand Pounds to be paid to Sir Gilb't Gherrard, for the Garrison of Reddinge. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

3. An Ordinance for cutting Wood, for the fortifying of Christ Church, in Hampshire.

To be considered of on Monday Morning.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a present Conference, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber: To the Order for paying One Thousand (fn. 4) Pounds to the Garrison of Reading, they do agree to; and concerning the Ordinance for cutting Woods for the fortifying of Christ Church, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

E. of Cleveland not to be exchanged without the Directions of this House.

The Lord General acquainted this House, "That the House of Commons sent to his Lordship, to let him know, that they do approve of the Exchange of the Earl of Cleveland for Colonel Stevens and Colonel Jones, if this House approves of it; but, in regard he was a Peer, they thought it not fit to make a positive Order in it, without acquainting this House with it."

And the House directed the Lord General to return this Answer, That this House conceives the Earl of Cleaveland to be so considerable a Man in the King's Army, as they think it not fit to change him for these Persons.

And this House signified their Pleasure to the Lord General, that the Earl of Cleveland be not exchanged without further Directions from this House.

Captain Hobart's Protection not allowed.

Upon hearing the Counsel of Captain Hubert, who, by Order of this House, formerly was ordered to be released from his Imprisonment at Norwich; and upon hearing also the Counsel of Mr. Barrell, Sheriff of Norwich, by whose Counsel it was alledged, "That Captain Hubert is not in actual Service of the Parliament; and many Actions are laid upon him, to the Value of Three Thousand Pounds; and that he took his Commission but to protect him from paying his just Debts, because he entered his Protection in the Sheriff's Book."

And (fn. 5) upon a Debate of all the whole Business, it was Resolved upon the Question, That (fn. 4) the Protection to Captain Hubert, as the Case stands opened by the Counsel at the Bar, shall not be extended.

Col. Stepkin freed from an Arrest.

Upon reading the Petition of Peter Stepkin, Colonel; shewing, "That he being served, Two Months since, with a Warrant from this House, to be a Witness for the Earl of Denbighe's Business, and he coming to London, was arrested."

It is Ordered, That in regard the said Colonel Stepkin in in actual Employment in the Parliament's Service, (fn. 4) he shall be released from his Imprisonment concerning this Business, (fn. 6) if within Six Days just Cause be not shewed to this House to the contrary.

Report of the Conference on the Ordinance for Sir T. Fairfax to command the Army.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

And the Speaker reported the Effect of the Conference with the House of Commons: "That they had received from their Lordships the Ordinance of additional Power to be given to Sir Tho. Fairefaxe, with One Addition, and Two Alterations. They said, the House of Commons looked upon it as an Unhappiness, that such a Business as this Tenderness should be in Difference between the Two Houses.

"To the First Alteration, concerning the Lord Lieutenants, the House of Commons Agrees to it.

"To the Second Alteration, concerning the Word ["adjacent"], it is a Word of a doubtful Signification, to him that commands, and to those that are commanded; and it may occasion Disputes; therefore they desire the Word ["adjacent"] and the Limitation may be left out, in the whole Clause.

"As concerning the Addition concerning (fn. 7) the King's Person, &c. the House of Commons conceive that this Addition will dishearten our Soldiers; and it will encourage the King to adventure His own Person to come in the Head of His Army into Danger, which otherwise it may be He would not; also it will make the Soldiers be Judge whether the King defends Religion or not.

"The House of Commons desires their Lordships Expedition in this Business, which so much concerns the Safety of the Kingdom."

Debate upon the Report.

And the House took into Consideration the Addition concerning the King's Person, &c. And, after Debate, this Question was put, "Whether this House will adhere to this additional Clause as it was sent down to the House of Commons?"

Clause concerning the King's Person.

And the Votes were Ten "Contents," and Nine Not Contents;" and the Lord Viscount Say & Seale tendered the Proxy of the Earl of Mulgrave; and so the Votes were equal.

Clause concerning Forts and Garrisons.

Next, was debated the Clause concerning the Forts and Garrisons; and this Question was put, "Whether to adhere to this Clause concerning the Forts, as it was sent down from hence to the House of Commons?"

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Protest against it.

These Lords following (fn. 8) have Leave to enter their Dissents to this Question; they desiring it before the putting of the Question: (Here enter the Dissent.)

Ordered, That the aforesaid Lords have Leave to enter their Dissents to the Question concerning the Addition touching the whole additional Clause, when it shall be carried against their Votes.

Committee to draw up Reasons for adhering to this Clause.

Ordered, That these Lords following are to draw up Reasons, to be offered to the House of Commons, at a Conference, concerning adhering to the Alterations in the Clause concerning the Forts and Garrisons:

Any Five, to meet when they please.

Protest against the Clause, concerning Guards and Garrisons.

"These Lords whose Names are subscribed, having demanded their Right of entering their Dissent before the putting the Question, do enter the same accordingly.

"And their Lordships being satisfied with the Reasons of the House of Commons at the Conference this Day, why the Alteration made by the House of Peers, in that Clause concerning the Command of Forts and Garrisons, in the Ordinance, intituled, "An Ordinance for additional Powers to Sir Thomas Fairefaxe," should not stand; and being in an extraordinary Manner sensible of the great Prejudice and Hazard it may be to the Safety of the Parliament and Kingdom, if, by the insisting upon the said Alteration, there be any Delay in the passing of the said Ordinance; to clear themselves of any Inconvenience which may hereby happen in a Business of so great Concernment, have entered their Dissent as aforesaid.

"A. Northumberland.

H. Kent.

"Pembroke & Mont.

Salisbury.

"W. Say & Seale.

"C. Nottingham.

E. Howard."

"P. Wharton.

Ordinance to authorize the Committee of the Militia in London to impress Men.

"Be it Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Committee of the Militia of the City of London, and the several Subcommittees of the Militia within the Line of Communication and the Parishes mentioned within the Weekly Bills of Mortality, shall, by virtue of this present Ordinance, respectively have Power, and are hereby authorized, to put in Execution, within the said City and the several Limits aforesaid, an Ordidinance bearing Date the 27th of February, 1644, for the speedy raising and impresting of Men, for the recruiting of the Forces under the Command of Sir Thomas Fairefax."

Ordinance to secure the North Sea Fishery.

"For the better securing of the Island and North Sea Fishing, and conveying of Vessels from Port to Port between London and the River of Humber: It is Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That Five Ships, or more, of convenient Strength, be with all Speed provided with Men and Victuals for Six Months, the said Ships not employing above the Number of Three Hundred Men, which are intended to be above the Number of Shipping appointed for the Summer's Fleet; the Charge of the Victualing Part to be born by the State, and paid out of the Monies appointed for the Use of the Navy: And for Freight and Mens Wages, it is Ordered, That the same shall be paid out of Fifteen Hundred Pounds, to be raised out of the Estate of Mr. Charles Walgrave, a Popish Recusant; and the Residue of the Charge to be paid in such Manner as shall be hereafter directed by the House of Commons; and the Committee of the Navy, upon Conference with my Lord Admiral, are to take Care for the putting of this Ordinance in Execution."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9^a, Monday Morning next.