Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 8, 1645-1647. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.
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DIE Mercurii, 18 die Martii.
PRAYERS, by Mr. Good.
Comes Manchester, Speaker.
The Speaker acquainted the House with a Letter which he had delivered him from the Duke of Lorraine, which was read; as follows:
Letter from the D. of Lorrain, desiring a Protection for Fortescue his Agent.
"Je vous sy obligeants et courtois, que vous ne me refuserer pas une Priere, du vouloir prendre en vostre Protection la Maison du mon Resident Fortescue, que sy appellé icy il a precipité sou Voyage, en sorte qu'il ne vous en a pu obtenir la Permission. A son Retour, il vous en donnera Raison. La meilleure est d'avoir obey. Cependant je vous prie de voire que je suis,
A Bruxelles, le 25 May, (fn. 1) 1646.
"V're trè affectionné à vous servir,
"Messieurs de Chambres Haute et Comune du Parlement D'Angleterre."
The Lord Robertes reported from the Committee of both Kingdoms;
Paper from the Scots Commissioners.
"Die Lunæ, 16 Martii, 1645.
"At the Committee of both Kingdoms, at Derby House.
"Ordered, That the Paper given in by the Scotts Commissioners be reported to both Houses.
"Secretary to the same Committee."
The Paper was read, as follows. (Here enter it.)
Ordered, That To-morrow Morning this Paper shall be taken into Consideration.
Letter from the Committee before Newark.
A Letter was read, from the Earl of Rutland, concerning the Affairs of the Army before Newarke.
Answer from the H. C.
Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page return with this Answer:
That the House of Commons will give a Conference this Morning, as is desired, concerning the Instructions to be given to the Commissioners that are to be sent into the West.
Message from thence, about inviting the Prince to come from Scilly;
A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Gilb't Gherrard Baronet:
To let their Lordships know, that they having received Information that the Prince is in the Isle of Scylly, and knowing what ill Consequence it might be to the Kingdom if he should transport himself into Foreign Parts, they have made a Vote, wherein they desire their Lordships Concurrence, to give him an Invitation.
(Here enter it.)
and with an Ordinance.
2. An Ordinance concerning the Great Seal of England.
The Answer returned was:
That this House agrees to the Vote concerning the Invitation of the Prince; as to the other Vote concerning the Great Seal of England, the House will take it into Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own.
Letter of Invitation to be sent to the Prince.
Ordered, That a Letter be writ, to go along with the Vote to the Prince; and the Letter to (fn. 2) be sent to the General, to be conveyed to the Prince wheresoever he is in the King's Dominions; and that the said Letter be drawn up by a Committee of Lords and Commons, and presented to the Houses; and, after Approbation, to be communicated to the Scotts Commissioners.
The Committee were,
Ordinance concerning the Great Seal.
The Ordinance concerning the Great Seal of England was read, and Agreed to with an Amendment; and Ordered, To be communicated to the House of Commons, and their Concurrence to be desired therein.
Message to the H. C. for Committees to meet about the Letter to be sent to the Prince.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:
To let them (fn. 3) know, that this House hath appointed a Committee of Five Lords, and desire them to nominate a proportionable Number of their House, to consider of the drawing up of a Letter to be sent to the Prince of Wales, with the Vote brought up this Day; and to present the same to the Houses; and to meet this Afternoon, at Three of the Clock, in the Prince's Lodgings.
Message from thence, about the Ordinance for trying Mr. Murray.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Henry Mildmay Knight:
To desire that, at the next Conference, they may communicate to their Lordships some Things concerning Mr. Murrye's Ordinance for Martial Law.
and to expedite Colonel Kerle's.
2. To desire their Lordships would please to give Expedition to the Ordinance for making Colonel Kerle to be Governor of the Town and Castle of Monmouth.
(Here enter it.)
Agreed to, upon the Question.
The Answer returned was:
This House will hear what Reasons they shall (fn. 2) offer, at the next Conference, concerning the Ordinance for Martial Law for Mr. Murry: And as to the Order for making Colonel Kerle Governor of Monmouth, this House agrees to it.
Sir Percy Smith's Petition.
Upon reading the Petition of Sir Percie Smyth Knight; desiring, "some reasonable Sum of Money may be advanced unto him for his Relief, and to enable him to return to his Command in Ireland."
It is Ordered, To be recommended to the House of Commons.
Norton's Ordinance for the Rectory of Harlaxton.
The Ordinance for presenting Ric'd Norton Clerk, to the Rectory of Harlaxton, in the County of Lyncolne, was read Thrice, and Agreed to; and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons, for their Concurrence.
St. Gregory's Church.
Ordered, That the Committee for Gregorie's Church shall meet on Saturday next, in the Afternoon.
Sir R. Willis and Mr. Villiers, a Pass, to go beyond Sea.
A Letter to the Earl of Denbigh was read; desiring, That Mr. Edward Villeirs and Sir Ric'd Willis may have a Pass, to go beyond the Seas; they having disengaged themselves from the King's Service, and promise never to take up Arms again against the Parliament."
Which this House gave Way to; and Ordered, That the Letter be sent to the [ (fn. 4) House of Commons], and their Concurrence desired, that they might have a Pass, as is desired.
Order for raising the Money to pay Col. Lilburn's Damages.
The Lord Robertes (fn. 4) reported from the Committee appointed to consider how to raise the Damages given by this House to Lieutenant Colonel Lylbourne; and they are of Opinion, "That the Estates of the Lord Cottington, Sir Francis Windibanke, and the Warden of The Fleete, be charged equally with One Thousand Marks apiece for the said Two Thousand Pounds; and that an Ordinance may be drawn up to this Purpose, that he may have so much out of the Sequestrations of their Estates paid (fn. 5) him: Hereupon that a Judgement of this House be drawn up, (fn. 6) for the charging the several Estates of the Lord Cottington, Sir Francis Windibank, and the Warden of The Fleete, with One Thousand Marks apiece."
Paper from the Scots Commissioners, about the Propositions to the King, for a Peace.
"Our earnest Desires to have Religion setled in this Kingdome according to the Covenant, and to have both Kingdomes delivered from their present Troubles and Pressures, and established in a firme and happy Peace, that wee ourselves and our Army might retourne to our owne Native Country with Comfort and Contentment, moved us these 9 Monthes past often and earnestly to presse, that the Propositions formerly agreed upon by the Two Kingdomes might be sent to His Majesty, and the Answere of the Honorable House, 7 Monthes sithence, shewing their Resolution to send Propositions to His Majesty for such a Peace, hath made us extreamely to long for them. Upon the 28th of February, we receved some of the Propositions which your Lordships desire to be sent; and in Answere unto our Paper of the 2d of this Instante March, expressinge our desire to know whether these were all the Propositions desired to be sent, or if we were to expect any other, it was returned, upon the 4th of March, That those were all, except such as concerned Delinquents and the Citty, which were speedily to be delivered unto us.
"In the Propositions which we have receved, we cannot but observe, that the most materiall Additions, Omissions, and Alterations, as they are expressed in the Paper, wherein the Difference consists betwixt these and the Propositions formerly agreed upon doe trench upon the joynt Interests of both Kingdomes, and tending to the lewsing of the Bands, and weakning of the Sinewes, of our happy Union, which were not only notable Pledges and Evidences of reciprocall Kindnes for the Tyme to the Discouragement of the common Enemy, but were alsoe powerfull Meanes for conservinge and perpetuatinge our comon Peace and brotherly Amity for all Generations to come; to the disparinge of all our Enemies ever to prevaill by their Plotts or Attempts against these soe nearely and firmely united Kingdomes. This could not but be a Matter of Resentment and unspeakeable Greife unto us and to the Kingdome of Scotland, had we not Grounds of Assurance of the Intention of both Houses to the contrary, both from the inviolable League and Covenant wherein we have all sworne to endeavour that these Kingdomes may remaine conjoyned in a firme Peace and Union to all Posterity, and from their Letter of the 13th of Novemb. 1645, to the Parliament of Scotland, expressing their Desire of a nearer Union and Conjunction betweene the Kingdomes.
"We come therefore to the particuler Consideration of the Propositions:
"We doe first of all desire, that the Preface, Title, and Conclusion of the Propositions may be the same as formerly, or to that Sence.
"In the First Article, we desire these Words ["the Parliament of that Kingdome"] to be added after these Words ["Convention of Estates in Scotland"]; and we doe agree to the 1st, 2d, 3d, and 4th Propositions.
"As to the 5th and 6th Propositions; we desire to see what the Houses have already agreed upon concerning Religion, and then we shall give in our Answere about these Propositions.
"To the 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11, and 12th Propositions, we doe agree; the Clause set downe in the 11th Article of the former Propositions, and omitted in these, concerninge the ratifying of the Acts of the Convention of the States and Parliament of Scotland, being added to the 12th Proposition.
"The Treaty of Edinburgh, the 28th of November, 1643, which was comprehended in the former Proposition agreed upon betweene the Kingdomes, is excluded by these Words in this new 13th Proposition ["and whereunto they are obliged by the aforesaid Treatyes"]; for the Kingdomes were not obliged by any of the former Treatyes to make a subsequent Treaty: And therefore wee desire the said Treaty of the 28th of November, 1643, together with the Ordinances of the 9th of March and 11th of Aprill, ratifying the same, may bee expressed in this Proposition; for which wee offer the Reasons followinge:
"The Commissioners of the Parliament of England received particuler Instructions from the Two Houses, to treate with the Kingdome of Scotland, concerning the Maintenance of the Scottish Army in Ireland, and ordering thereof in such Manner as might best conduce to the Prosecution of that Warre, according to the Ends expressed in the Covenant; and by their Instructions, comunicated to the Convention of Estates of Scotland according to the Direction of the Houses, they are expressly authorised to settle upon some Course with the Kingdome of Scotland, to mannage that Warre by the joynt Advise of the Committee of both Kingdomes, and to prevent the Evills and Mischeifes that els might fall out for Want of the same.
"According to these Instructions, Seaven Articles are mutually agreed upon at Edinburgh, the 28th of November, 1643, by a Committee of both Kingdomes, after adviseing with the Agents and Officers sent from the Scottish Army, and serious Debate and mature Deliberation upon the whole Matter, betweene the Committees of both Kingdomes, as is acknowledged in the Preface of the Treaty.
"In the 4th Article of that Treaty, Two Things are agreed on:
"1°, That he who doth or shall commaund in Cheife over the Scottish Army, by joynt Advise of both Kingdomes, shall alsoe comaund the rest of the Brittish Forces in Ireland.
"2°, For the mannaging of that Warre, and prosecuting the Ends expressed in the Covenant, that the same bee done by joynt Advise with the Committees of both Kingdomes.
"These Articles, being agreed upon, were transmitted to the Houses of Parliament; and Six of them ratifyed and approved in the Votes of both Houses, of the 9th of March and 11th of Aprill.
"In the Votes of the 9th of March, the 4th Article, concerning the Commaund in Cheife and the manageinge of the Warre by the joynt Advise of both Kingdomes, is verbatim ratifyed by the Houses; and was presented at Uxbridge, to bee confirmed by the King.
"The Commissioners of Scotland haveing received Instructions from the Estates of Parliaments for the perfectinge of this Treaty, and the Two Houses haveinge referred the same to the Consideration of the Committee of both Kingdomes; after a free Debate and full Deliberation, the 3d and 4th Articles of the Treaty at Edinburgh were agreed upon and perfected by them, and reported to both Houses, who ratifyed and approved the same in their Votes of the 11th of Aprill.
"Concerning the Commaund in Cheife, these Words were agreed upon, ["That the Earle of Leven, Lord Generall of the Scottish Forces in Ireland, being now by the Votes of both Houses agreed to bee Comaunder in Cheife over all the Forces as well Brittish as Scotts, according to the 4th Article of the Result of the Committee of both Kingdomes passed both Houses, bee desired, with all convenient Speede, by the Advise of the said Committees, to nominate and appoint a Commaunder in Cheife under his Excellency over the said Forces, to reside with them upon the Place"].
"Concerning the mannaging of the Warre, it is agreed upon in these Words, ["That Committees bee nominated and appointed, by the joynt Advise of both Kingdomes, of such Number and Qualityes as bee by them agreed on, to bee sent, with all convenient Speede, to reside with the said Forces and enabled with full and ample Instructions, for the joynt Advise of both Kingdomes, for regulatinge the said Forces, and the better carrying on of that Warre"].
"And both these Articles were delivered in at the Treaty at Uxbridge, and desired to bee confirmed.
"That, accordinge to these Articles, Committees are now in Ireland, from both Kingdomes, for mannaging of the Warre.
"That these Articles of the 28th of November, 1643, are likewise ratifyed in the Parliament of Scotland, and registred as a Treaty.
"That the Houses of Parliament, in their Votes of the 9th of March, doe, in Approbation of the 6th Article, acknowledge it to bee a Treaty.
"That the Votes of the 9th of March, by Direction of the Houses, were delivered unto us, as their Consent to the Articles of the said Treaty of the 28th of November; and the Houses, in their Letter of the 25th of May, did acquaint the Parliament of Scotland, that they had ratifyed and confirmed the severall Treatyes made and agreed betweene their Commissioners and the Convention of Estates of Scotland, and that it was their Desire the same might bee done by the Parliament of Scotland; which they did accordingly.
"That these Articles were agreed upon betweene the Kingdomes when the Parliament's Army in Munster revolted from them; and when the Scottish Army in Ulster had sent Agents to the Convention of Estates of Scotland, to declare, that, by reason of their extreame Wants and Sufferings, occasioned by the Want of their Pay and necessary Maintenance due by the Parliament of England, they were resolved to leave that Kingdome, whereby it would have bin wholy lost to the Parliament of England, if the Kingdome of Scotland had not interposed, and, by taxing greate Sumes of Money upon the Kingdome of Scotland, and leavying Provisions, had raised considerable Supplyes, and sent them over, for the present Subsistence of the Scottish Army untill the Parliament of England should bee able to send them further Supplyes; which both Houses doe acknowledge in their said Letter of the 25th of May to the Parliament of Scotland, and doe retourne their hearty Thanks to the Kingdome of Scotland for their Care of that Army, and the greate Charge they have bin at for their Releife with Provisions and Money for their necessary Subsistence.
"These Articles being treated upon by Committees of both Kingdomes both in Scotland and England, being ratifyed by the Parliaments of both Kingdomes, and by both acknowledged to bee a Treaty presented with the Propositions of Peace, and debated at Uxbridge, and haveing as much (if not more) of the Formalityes of a Treaty, then the First Treaty concerning the sending of the Scottish Army into Ireland; wee desire this Treaty may bee inserted with the other Treatyes in this Proposition; it being most reasonable that the Treaty made, and Conditions agreed on, for the Continuance of that starved Army in Ireland, should bee of as greate Force, and as well observed, as the Treaty made for sending them over into Ireland.
As to the former Part of the 14th Proposition, wee desire it may stand as formerly, for the Reasons above expressed; and as to the latter Part now added, wee desire that all the Articles concerninge the settling of Religion in this Kingdome may bee extended to Ireland, accordinge to the Covenant.
"The 15th Proposition, concerninge Delinquents, wee have not received.
"To the 16th and 17th Propositions, wee doe agree.
"In the 18th Proposition, wee sinde soe materiall Differences from that which was formerly agreed upon concerning the Militia, as may bee Matter of long Debate what may bee most conduceable to the Security of both Kingdomes, and soe retarde the sending of the Propositions, and loose the present Oppertunity of obtayning His Majesty's Consent before He bee ingaged in some other Designe, which may bee a Ruine to Himselfe, and a Matter of new Trouble to these Kingdomes.
"Wee desire it may bee considered, that the former Propositions, according to the Interest of both Kingdomes, did setle a Power in Commissioners of both Kingdomes, for resistinge all Forreigne Invasions, and for suppressing of all Forces raised within either of the Kingdomes to the Disturbance of their Peace; by which, there was noe Place left either to Arbitrary Power, or to any Mistake or Jealousy that could be raised or fomented betweene the Kingdomes, or of any Project of Incendiaryes to divide the King from any of His Kingdomes, or One Kingdome from annother: And wee see noe Reason why that which at the framing of these Propositions was esteemed as a greate Service, and a firme Foundation of Unity and mutuall Confidence betweene the Kingdomes, should now bee altered, the Reasons for preserving thereof being as strong as ever; and this new Proposition contaynes nothinge that may prevent those greate and obvious Inconveniencyes, but seemes rather to argue a Diffidence and Jealousye, to the weakening of that mutuall Confidence which was layd by the former Propositions.
"Further, this new Proposition doth not provide how the Militia shal bee ordered and disposed in the Intervalls of Parliament; although in another Case, by the 21th Proposition, concerning the Nomination of the Deputy or Cheife Governor or other Governors of Ireland, the Chancellor or Lord Keeper, Lord Treasurer, and other Officers and Ministers of England and Ireland, it is provided, that, in the Intervalls of Parliament, they shal bee nominated by a Committee of Parliament; and if it bee intended that, in like Manner, the Militia bee ordered in the Intervalls of Parliament by a Committee of Parliament, there is noe Objection can bee made against the former Proposition, for settling the Militia in Commissioners, which will not bee as full against setling thereof in a Committee; for, by the former Propositions, the Commissioners were alterable from Tyme to Tyme by the House, and to receive and observe their Directions and Instructions.
"We conceive alsoe, as the Honnorable Houses, upon Consideration of the manifold Troubles and Distractions in these Tymes, have wisely and necessarily resolved, for the Safety and Security of these Kingdomes, soe to setle the Militia as the King (although He were willing) bee not able, by involveing them againe into a bloody Warre, to make them Twice misserable, wherein wee are ready most heartily to concurre; soe doe wee thinke it is not their Intention to divest the King, the Posterity, and the Crowne, for all Tyme comeing, of all Power, Right, and Interest, in the Matter of the Militia; soe as, although They bee never soe willing to followe the Advise of Their Parliaments, yet They shall not ever bee (fn. 7) uncapable, and in noe Tyme cominge bee admitted to joyne with Their Parliaments, for resistinge Their Enemyes and protectinge Their Subjects; the Apprehension whereof may prolong the King's Answere and hinder His Consent, and as may easily (fn. 8) be collected from the Debates at Uxbridge, may bee interpreted to bee a fundamentall Alteration of the Government, contrary to the Resolutions and Declarations of both Kingdomes, and not soe agreeable to the Covenant, may bee made Use of by our Adversaryes for such an Occasion of Quarrellinge as they never had before, may bee made a Meane to bring the common Cause and our Carriage into Contempt, and used by our Enemyes as a Motive for provoking Forreigne Princes and States to engage in a Warre against us. Both Parts were provided for in the former Proposition: Upon the one Part, the Exercise and Execution of the Militia was not to bee in the Power of the King; yet, upon the other Part, were the Commissioners in whose Hands it was to bee trusted, to have their Commission from King and Parliament; and it was condescended upon at Uxbridge, that the Tyme should bee lymitted to 7 Yeares, and after Expiration of that Terme to bee setled and exercised in such Manner as His Majesty and the Parliaments of both Kingdomes respectively shall thinke fitt; but, by new Proposition, the whole Power is to bee setled in the Two Houses of Parliament, and the Crowne altogether excluded from all Interest in the Militia for ever, which therefore requireth a new Consideration.
"There is another Thing which wee confesse doth very much affect us, that where, in the large Treaty of Peace, a Commission for Conservation of the Peace then setled betweene the Kingdomes was judged most necessary, and was mutually agreed upon; and accordingly, in Pursuance thereof, Commissioners were appointed by the Parliament of Scotland, to whome the Houses of Parliament, upon severall necessary Occasions, made their Addresses to good Purpose; and whereas, in the former Propositions, severall Articles were sett downe with mutuall Consent, for conserving the Peace firmly and inviolably for all Tyme to come; yet, in the new Propositions, although the Danger bee noe lesse, and the Necessity noe lesse urgent, there is not soe much as Mention made of any Meane to bee used, or Course to bee taken, for conserving the Peace betwixt the Kingdomes, and betwixt the King and either of them; but all passed in Silence: All which necessary Considerations wee offer to the Wisdome of the Honnorable Houses, that they may continue in their Resolution to send the former Propositions as they were proposed at Uxbridge, which will be free of Debate, are more likely to bee obtayned of the King's Majesty, and will serve more for the Peace and good Correspondence of the Kingdomes, especially that the Conservation of Peace for the future may bee provided for.
"To the 19th and 20th Propositions, wee doe agree.
"To the 21th wee doe agree, with this Addition, ["The like for the Kingdome of Scotland, for the Nomination of the Lords of Privy Councell, Lords of Session and Exchequer, Officers of State, and Justice Generall, in such Manner as the Estates of Parliament there shall thinke fitt."].
"The Proposition concerning the Education, Marriage, and chooseinge of the Tutors and Governors, of the King's Children, by Consent of both Kingdomes, is omitted in these new Propositions.
"The Proposition concerninge the makeing of Peace or Warre with Forreigne Princes and States, with Advise and Consent of both Kingdomes, is alsoe omitted in these Propositions.
"The Proposition concerninge the Disbandinge of the Armyes by Consent of both Kingdomes is likewise omitted.
"The Proposition for passing an Act of Oblivion in the Parliaments of both Kingdomes is omitted.
"Wee desire that the Propositions concerning the Citty of London, as alsoe the Propositions concerninge Delinquents, may bee speedily delivered unto us, that they may bee dispatched with the rest.
"Upon the whole Matter, if the Houses of Parliament shall thinke fitt for the present to send only the Three Propositions, concerninge Religion, the Militia, and Ireland, as they were proposed at Uxbridge, wee doe agree; but, if they thinke fitt that more Propositions bee sent at this Tyme, we doe deseire that all the Propositions which concerne the joynt Interest of both Kingdomes, and are omitted in these new Propositions, may bee sent likewise; although wee are of the Judgment, that every Particuler and Circumstance of the Propositions is not of soe greate Importance to these Kingdomes as Peace and Warre should depend thereupon.
"Haveing thus freely, in such brotherly Manner as the Matter of Peace doth require, expressed our Sense of the Propositions delivered unto us; if there bee any Mistake on our Part, or if there bee any Point wherein the Honnorable Houses are not sattisfyed, wee are most willing and ready to give and receive all brotherly Sattisfaction, by Conferrence or otherwise, in such Manner as shal bee judged most beehoovefull and expeditious; and to give Testimony of our true and earnest Desires and Readines to concurre with the Honnorable Houses in all such Things as upon a freindly Debate shal bee found conduceable for procureing, settlinge, and propagatinge, such a Peace as wee all desire for our common Happines.
"By Commaund of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland.
March 16th, 1646/5;.
Letter from the Committee before Newark, concerning the Siege of that Place.
"The Affairs before Newarke (through God's Blessing) go on well. Colonel Ledgerd's Regiment is come from Yorke to us. The Officers and Soldiers are all as One Man to perform the Service they are appointed, full of Courage, and healthful. Half the Line we hope will be finished on Wednesday next, and the other with all possible Speed. One of the Bridges over Trent against Winthorpe was ready Three Days since. The Trent there divides; the other Bridge will be finished in a Day or Two. We have brought a Pinnace, Musket-proof, within Half a Mile of Newarke, wherein are Two Guns, and which will hold Forty Musketeers. The whole Cannon from Yorke is come to Winthorpe. One strong Fort is made to secure the Bridge, another is preparing nearer the Enemy's great Sconce. The whole Culverins and Mortar-pieces are come to Balderton and Farnton. The great Mortar-piece is to be run on Wednesday at Nottingham. We hope in God to lose no Time, nor omit any Opportunity, in reducing Newarke, and to give your Lordships a good and speedy Account thereof.
"The Earl of Dunfermlyn's Regiment of Foot is come to Lieutenant General Lesly.
Lincolne, 14 March, 1645.
"For the Right Honourable the Speaker of the House of Peers. These."
Vote to invite the Prince into the Parliament's Quarters.
"Resolved, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That an Invitation shall be now sent, from both Houses of Parliament, to the Prince, to desire him to come into the Parliament's Quarters, to reside in such Place, and with such Council and such Attendants about him, as both Houses of Parliament shall think fit to appoint."
Colonel Kerle to be Governor of Monmouth.
"The Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled do nominate and approve of Colonel Rob't Kerle, to be Governor of the Town and Castle of Monmouth; and that the Members of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms do grant him a Commission accordingly."