Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 8, 1645-1647. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.
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DIE Martis, 20 die Octobris.
Batten to continue V. Adm and Commander in Chief of the Fleet, and to command The Leopard.
"Whereas The St. Andrew, under Command of Captain Wm. Batten, Vice Admiral and Commander in Chief of the Fleet for the last Summer's Expedition, is now called into Chatham; and forasmuch as this Committee conceives, that of the Ships appointed for the Winter Guard, The Leopard, which hath been under Command of Captain Henry Bethell for the Summer's Service, is fittest for Captain Batten to continue his Charge in, as Vice Admiral and Commander in Chief: Ordered, That the said Captain Batten be presented to both Houses, for their approving him to continue Vice Admiral and Commander in Chief of the Fleet, in the said Ship The Leopard, for this Winter's Expedition.
Ordered, That this House (fn. 1) agrees to this Report; and that it be sent to the House of Commons for their Consent.
Letter from the Scots Commissioners, with Papers, concerning the Dispotal of the King's Person, and the marching of their Army Home, &c.
"We doe herewith present to the Honorable Houses Two Papers, in Answere to their Votes of the 24th of September, wherein we have contributed our best Endeavours to come to a speedy Agreement in the great Affaires now in Agitation, and to proceede and continue a firme Correspondency betweene the Kingdomes; and wee cannot but promise to ourselves that we shall meete with the same Affections in the Honorable Houses, that, all Differences being determined, and all just Desires satisfied, these Kingdomes may still remaine in a sweete Concord and brotherly Conjunction, then which nothinge can be more acceptable to
Mortimer to attend as Serjeant of the Revenue.
The Petition of Mortimer was read; and Ordered, That it be recommended to the House of Commons, that he may (fn. 1) be appointed to attend as Serjeant of the Revenue.
E. of Mulgrave takes his Seat.
Paper from the Scots Commissioners, concerning their Army marching Home, on the Money being provided.
And it is referred to these Lords following, to consider of this Paper, and then to speak with the Scotts Commissioners, and to endeavour to bring the said Business to a Conclusion; and that the House of Commons be sent to, and desired to appoint a Committee of their House, to join with the Committee of this House:
Seal belonging to the Marches of Wales, to be kept with the others brought from Oxford.
The Lord Howard reported, "That the Committee at Haberdashers Hall having Occasion to send into Wales, to search for some Papers there, there was found the Seal formerly belonging to the Marches of Wales, being Gold: And it being delivered to them, it was thought fit to be presented to this House."
Hereupon it is Ordered, That the said Seal be kept with the other Seals as were brought from Oxford; and that the House of Commons be made acquainted therewith, how it came into this House, and where it is to be disposed of.
Ordinance for Squibb and Riley to be Kings at Arms.
Message to the H. C. about it.
about the Seal belonging to the Marches of Wales;
2. To let them know how the Seal of the Marches of Wales was brought into this House; and that their Lordships desire their Concurrence, that the same may be kept with the rest of the Seals which (fn. 2) were brought from Oxford.
March. of Winton's Petition;
for Committees to meet, about the Papers from the Scots Commissioners.
4. To let them know, that this House hath received Papers from the Scotch Commissioners; and this House hath appointed a Committee of Twelve Lords, to join with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons, to endeavour to put in speedy Execution the Desires contained in the First Paper delivered this Day from the Scotts Commissioners in Answer to the Votes of both Houses of the 24th of September, 1646; and to confer with the said Commissioners, and to come to some Conclusion touching the said Paper; and afterwards the Members of both Houses to make Report respectively.
and with an Ordinance, &c.
6. To recommend to (fn. 3) them Mr. Mortimer's Petition.
Message from the H. C. for the Conference about the Commissioners of the Great Seal.
Ly. Mary Fielding & al. a Pass to France.
Alderman Fowkes and the E. I. Co.
Sir H. Mildmay's Claim.
Poole sent for, for preventing Boilston's Induction to the Church of Weston upon Trent.
Upon reading an Affidavit, "That Mr. Everard Poole, being required to permit that John Boilston, Batchelor in Divinity, be inducted into the Parish Church of Weston upon Trent, in the County of Derby, according to an express Order of the Lords, being dated 24 Septemb. 1646; the said Poole absolutely refused, affirming "that he had a Presentation unto the Rectory of Weston aforesaid from Mr. Stitch, in the County of Essex; it was answered, "That Mr. Stitch was a Recusant." To this Poole replied, "That Mr. Stitch was no Recusant." And when it was told him, "That the House of Lords assembled in Parliament had, upon good Grounds, declared Mr. Stitch a Convict Recusant in their Order above mentioned; " the said Mr. Poole replied hereunto, "What care I what the Lords have declared in this Case?" And being urged, "that this was a very high and strange Reply;" he again replied in these Words, "I care not what the Lords have declared against Law".
The Lords went to the Conference with the House [ (fn. 4) of Commons]; and the House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure.
Report of the Conference about the Ordinance concerning the Commissioners of the Great Seal.
The Speaker reported the Effect of this Conference; which was, "That they do not agree that the Four Persons sent down to them from this House be made Commissioners of the Great Seal of England; but do desire those Three sent up from the House of Commons may only stand, because their Lordships have agreed to them; and they think that Three Persons are a competent Number for that Business, because it will ease the State of a Charge.
And as concerning the Proviso touching the Incapacity which will be put upon the Persons from being made Assistants to this House, if it should be thought fit; they conceive it will not put an Incapacity upon Men, but intended because they should not have any Dependence upon either Houses; and therefore think it not fit."
Committee to prepare an Answer to the H. C. about it.
The Earl of Lyncolne, the Lord Willoughby, the Lord North, and the Lord Robertes, were appointed to draw up the Matter to be returned to the House of Commons in Answer to the Matter of the last Conference.
Lords to attend the Funeral of the E. of Essex in their Robes.
Answer to the H C. about the Conference on the Ordinance concerning the Commissioners of the Great Seal.
That, having so long since sent the Ordinance to them, the Lords agreed to their Three with those named by them, as being the fairest Invitation to accord the Houses in the naming of the Commissioners, especially there being no Exception against the Persons named by their Lordships; and this being the only Way (as they conceive) in such Cases, they hope their Agreement of their Names will not otherwise be made Use of, especially the Ordinance remaining with that House so long.
As to the Charge of having Seven, their Lordships think (so Justice be duly observed) the Cost is well bestowed; yet, if the House of Commons think the Number of Seven too many, they may take the Four Persons named by the Lords only.
As to the Proviso, my Lords adhere, not to admit it, which doth put an Incapacity upon the Commissioners for being Assistants in the Lords House; which though it be more than probable it will not be, yet they understand not the Inconvenience if they were, the Great Seal having been in former Times, by the Chancellor of England, or the Keepers thereof, residing in the Lords House, and all the Judges of the Realm Assistants there, whereby Justice hath not been obstructed, but farthered; nor can their Presence be wrested farther than the Nature of Assistants are, having yielded to the lessening of their Power in Justices of Peace and Presentations.
"Wherefore my Lords desire the Dispatch of this Business, that, having yielded to the Persons named by them as abovesaid, to the limiting of their Powers, these named by them having no Exception against them, that no farther (fn. 5) Observation of the Seal may be, wherein the Lords have (fn. 5) acquainted themselves in Time and Matter."
Paper from the Scots Commissioners, in Answer to the Votes of both Houses of the 24th of Sept. concerning the withdrawing of their Army on Receipt of the Money due;—and desiring Supplies may be sent to it.
"Haveing received the Votes of the Honnorable Houses of the 24th of September, declareing, That whatsoever Conferrence, Consultation, or Debate, shall be with the Commissioners of Scotland, concerning the Disposall of the Person of the King, it shall not bee understood to bee any Capitulation to the Retarding of the March of the Scotts Army out of this Kingdome, or of any Treaty betweene the Kingdomes concerning the same; and being desired to give our Answere hereunto before wee entered upon the Conferrence: As wee did then, soe wee doe now againe declare, that our Conferrence, Consultation, or Debate, with the Honnorable Houses, concerning the Disposall of the Person of the Kinge, shall not retard nor bee any Hindrance to the March of the Scottish Army out of this Kingdome, or to any Treaty concerning the same. And that it may bee manifest how sensible wee are of the unnecessary Burthens continued upon this Kingdome by keepinge Armyes on Foote after the Warre is at End, and that it may fully and cleerly appeare how really it is desired by the Scottish Army (fn. 6) that without Delay they may march out of this Kingdome with the same Affection and Cheerfullnes that they came in for the Assistance of their Brethren, and to the End all Jealousyes or Misunderstandings of our Intentions may bee removed; wee doe further Declare, That wee are willing and ready to meete with such as the Honnorable Houses shall appoint, and within 24 Houres to agree concerning the Tyme and Place of the Payment of the First 200,000£. and the Security to bee given for the other, and to appoint a Day wherein our Forces shall march out of the Toune and Castle of Newcastle, out of Tinmouth Castle, Hartlepoole, Stockton, Thirlewall, and all other Places within this Kingdome (Berwick and Carlile beinge disposed of according to the respective Treatyes betweene the Kingdomes), and likewise for marching of our Army out of this Kingdome, which, in regard the Winter doth fast approach, and for other important Reasons, wee earnestly desire may bee with all possible Expedition; and for this End, that the Money may bee speedily sent unto them; for the sooner they shall receive it, the more acceptable it will bee, and give the greater Sattisfaction, and the impoverished and exhausted Country wil bee the sooner eased: And since the Cause of their Stay and Continuance in this Kingdome is not upon their Part, and that for theise Six Moneths past they have received noe Pay, whereby they are exceedingly straitned in their Quarters, and the Northerne Parts where they remaine greatly overburthened, wee doe earnestly intreate that, in the meane Tyme (with the 5000£. at Nottingham already accompted unto them), some competent Proportion of Money may bee sent to the Army, for their necessary Entertainment; or otherwise they wil bee forced to enlarge their Quarters, for the Ease of the Country: In all which wee are the more desireous to come to a Close, that within few Dayes some of our Number must repaire to the Scottish Army, and from thence to the Parliament of Scotland (which is to sitt the Second of November next), to give an Accompt of our Proceedings. And therefore wee doe earnestly intreate the speedy Answere of the Honnorable Houses.
Paper from them, in Answer to the Votes of both Houses of the 24th Sept. concerning the Disposal of the King's Person.
"Haveing received the Votes of both Houses, dated the 24th of September, concerning the disposeing of the King's Person as both Houses of Parliament shall thinke fitt; although wee judge (as in Charity wee ought) that it is not the Meaneing and Intention of the Honnorable Houses to clayme or assume to themselves the whole and sole Power to dispose of His Majesty's Person, which is knowne to bee a Matter, as of high, soe of common and equall Concernment to both Kingdomes: Yet, least by our Silence the Right and Interest of the Kingdome of Scotland should bee prejudiced, and least that Sence of those Votes which many have apprehended and expressed should minister Occasion of Misunderstandinge and Difference betweene the Kingdomes, according to the Desires and Hopes of our common Enemyes; wee have judged it necessary, with that Freedome, Candor, and Plaines, which becometh Brethren, to represent our Thoughts concerning this greate Busines to both Houses.
Wee doe acknowledge, That, as positively the Houses of Parliament have as much Power in disposeing of the King's Person as any other Parliament hath or can have to dispose of a Kinge who hath more free Kingdomes then One; soe negatively none ought, or may dispose of His Majesty's Person without or against their Consent: The like wee suppose will bee mutually acknowledged in Referrence to the Parliament of Scotland; it being a fundamentall Right and Liberty of either Kingdome, that none can justly (without their owne Consent) impede or restraine the Person of their Kinge from comeing amongest them, and doeing the Dutyes of a Kinge unto them; and in both these Sences wee acquiesse in the Vote of the Honnorable Houses.
But if the Vote should be meant or made Use of as restrictive to the Parliament of England, and exclufive of the Parliament of Scotland, or as if the Two Houses were to dispose of the Person of the Kinge by their single and soe Authority, without the Consent and Concurrence of the Kingdome of Scotland; wee trust this Sence is as farre from the Thoughts of both Houses as it is from Justice and Equity, the Parliament of Scotland haveinge as much Interest in the Person of the King of Scotland, as the Parliament of England hath in the Person of the Kinge of England; and the Person being but One, both Kingdomes must needs share equally in that joynt Interest; neither hath the Parliament of England any more Power to dispose of the Person of the King of Scotland being in England, then the Parliament of Scotland hath to dispose of the Person of the King of England if he were in Scotland: And as the Parliament of England might justly conceive their Interest and Power to be greatly prejudiced if the Parliament of Scotland should clayme the sole Power to dispose of His Majesty's Person being in Scotland (and consequently, if they shall soe thinke fitt, to restraine His Person from comeing to His Houses of Parliament when the necessary Affaires of this Kingdome require His Presence); soe wee cannot but in Justice expect to bee dealt with by the Honnorable Houses as they would have us in like Cases to deale with them.
Although what wee have now expressed might bee sufficient as to our Sence of the Vote, yet it shall not bee superfluous, but very expedient, that wee further cleere ourselves and our reall Intentions in that which wee first offered in our Paper the 11th of August, concerning a joynt Consultation and Resolution of both Kingdomes what is next to bee done in Referrence to the King; which Motion wee now resume to bee still insisted upon: For the Question is not, whether the Houses of Parliament, or the Scotts Army shall dispose of the Person of the King in England; our Army claymeth noe Power to dispose of His Majesty's Person; and as they could not refuse to receive Him when He came amongest them, soe they are ready to obey and submitt to the joynt Resolutions of both Kingdomes concerning His Majesty: Neither is the Question, which of the Two Kingdomes shall trust the other with the present Residence of the King's Person 'till He bee disposed of by the Consent and Agreement of both. Lett it bee farre from both Kingdomes that the former mutuall Confidence should now turne to a mutuall Diffidence; and lett not a Blessing from Heaven bee expected upon either of the Nations which continueth not faithfull to the other according to the Covenant. Our Confidence in the Wisdome, Justice, Loyalty, and Faithfullnes of the Honnorable Houses is such, that, whensoever the Kinge shal bee willing to retourne unto them, and they willing to receive Him, wee shall not make the least Impediment, but give our cheerfull Consent. Least of all is the Question concerning any Priviledge or Power of the Parliament of England, or any Lawe, Liberty, or Practise of this Kingdome, to dispose of their Kinge. It is not our Meaning to controvert what in that Kinde they may doe, or at any Tyme have done, according to their Lawes (which are best knowne to themselves), for their Good and Safety, without the least Shaddowe of any Dependency upon annother Kingdome: But withall wee desire wee may bee remembred, that this is to bee transferred equally to the Power and Priviledge of the Parliament of Scotland. Wee doe not medle of any of the single or proper Rights, Priviledges, or Lawes of this Nation, more then wee would have our Brethren to medle with ours. It is One Thing what the Parliament of England might have done in annother Cause or Warre before their Engagements by the Covenants and Treatyes with the Kingdome of Scotland: It is annother Thing what ought to bee done after such Conditions and Tyes, imposed by neither Kingdome upon the other, but by both joyntly upon themselves, and as mutuall Obligations, both to God and each to other. Although wee might alsoe goe further backe then to the Covenant and Treatyes, and plead the common and equall Interest of the Kingdomes in their common Head and Soveraigne ever since they were soe united, as may sufficiently appeare even by some Instances in His Majesty's Tyme who now raignes over us.
It may bee remembred (as to the Interest of Scotland) that, when His Majesty was first united and desired to come into that Kingdome to bee crowned, it was represented by the Lords of His Majesty's Privy Councell in England, that the greate Affaires of this Kingdome could hardly dispence with His Majesty's goeing to Scotland; and therefore that either He might receive His Crowne of Scotland by a Vice-gerent there, or that it might bee sent hither unto Him. Like as this present Parliament, when the King went last into Scotland to setle the Peace of that Kingdome, did earnestly desire and presse that He might not goe; but that He might stay here, for the urgent Affaires of this Kingdome. But both in the one Case and in the other the Interest of the Kingdome of Scotland was preserved; and as it was most necessary that His Majesty should goe into that Kingdome for receiving that Crowne, soe His Majesty found it expedient to goe thither for the setling of Peace. It may alsoe bee remembred (as to the Interest of England) that the English Nobility, both at The Birkes Anno 1639, and at Yorke 1640, whose Letters to that Purpose are yet extant and to bee seene, and this Parliament Anno 1641, did clayme an Interest to see and knowe our Demaunds proposed to the Kinge, that neither His Majesty nor themselves might bee thereby prejudiced.
But the present Question needeth not goe soe farre upon a Back Trade: Whatsoever the joynt Interest of the Kingdomes was formerly, it is without Controversy now much more conjoyned; and unlesse wee lay aside the Covenant, Treatyes, Declaration of both Kingdomes, and the Three Yeares Conjunction in this Warre, neither the one Kingdome nor the other must now looke backe, what they might have done singly before such a strict Union; but looke forward, what is fittest to bee done by both joyntly, for the common Good of both, and for the Ends of the Covenant, which both are obliged joyntly to prosecute and promote; soe that the true and proper Question in this Conjuncture of Affaires is, Whether both Kingdomes have not a joynt and common Interest in disposeing of the Kinge of both, for the Good of both; and that His Majesty's Person ought not to bee disposed of by either Kingdome singly? Much might bee said for this joynt Way, and against a divided Way, from the Nature of all Associations, and the common Rules of Equity observed betweene Persons, Societyes, or Nations, which have a joynt Interest in the same Person, Parent, Master, Servant, or in the same Thing, Inheritance, Lands, House, Stock, or the like; in which Cases, One of the Partyes associated may not without the Consent of the other dispose of that which is common, especially if it bee a common Person, and least of all if it bee a Person of cheefest Eminency or Concernment; for although a common Thing may bee divided, and unto each Party his proper Share assigned, yet One individiall Person doth not admitt of a Partition, and soe requireth the greater Union and Conjunction of Councells in the Disposall of it. And as Reasons may bee drawne from the Nature of all Associations, soe especially from the Nature of ours in the solemne League and Covenant; the Tytle, Narrative, Articles, and Conclusion of it, doe all along linke together the Interest of the Kingdomes in this common Cause, soe much concerning the Glory of God, their owne Safety, Union, and Peace, and the Honnor and Happines of the King and His Posterity; which Ends of the Covenant both Parliaments, as well as other Subjects of both Kingdomes, have obliged themselves joyntly and mutually to promote, according to their Power, and to continue zealously and constantly therein all the Dayes of their Lives, against all Opposition; and to assist and defend all those that enter into this League and Covenant, in the Maintenance and pursueing thereof; and never suffer themselves to bee divided, directly or indirectly, from this blessed Union and Conjunction: Soe that the Ends of the Covenant (upon which the Disposall of the King must needs have a strong Influence) are not to bee prosecuted by the Two Kingdomes as by Two distinct Bodyes acting singly; but they were united by solemne Covenant made to Almighty God, and by League each to the other, as One intire Body, to prosecute this Cause, which was the Expression used by the Honnorable Houses in their Declaration of the Fifth of August, 1645, to the Lords States Generall of The United Provinces of The Low Countryes; in which Declaration this notable Instance was given, which deserveth alsoe to bee remembred, "That, by the Covenant, both Houses of Parliament, and many Thousands of other His Majesty's Subjects of England and Ireland, stand bound, as well as wee, to hinder the settinge-upp of the Church Government by Bishopps in the Kingdome of Scotland; and that wee, as well as (fn. 7) they, stand bound to indeavor the Extirpation thereof in England and Ireland: And as by the Covenant the Kingdomes are fast linked together in the whole Prosecution of this Cause, soe perticularly both are obliged to endeavor mutually to preserve and defend the King's Majesty's Person and Authority in the Preservation and Defence of the true Religion and Libertyes of the Kingdomes, that the World may beare Wittnes with our Consciences of our Loyalty, and that wee have noe Thoughts or Intentions to diminish His Majesty's just Power and Greatnes."
From the Treaty the same Thing doth further appeare; it being thereby manifest, that, as our Army was to bee levyed for the common Good of both Kingdomes in the Pursuance of the Ends exprest in the Covenant, and not as Auxiliaryes for the single Good of this Kingdome; soe they are not tyed to bee subject to the Resolutions and Directions of either Kingdome singly, but of both joyntly.
Alsoe, by the 8th Article, noe Cessation, Pacification, nor Agreement for Peace whatsoever, is to bee made by either Kingdome, without the mutuall Advise and Consent of both; soe that, if the Disposall of the King's Person, mentioned in the Vote of both Houses, bee intended for the Good of both Kingdomes, then it should not bee done without the mutuall Advise and Consent of both; but, if intended for the Peace and Security of this Kingdome within itselfe singly, this were to setle the Peace of the One Kingdome, not only without the Councell and Consent, but before the Setlement of the other, and soe the more inconsistent with the plaine Scope of that Article.
"Moreover, by the 9th Article of the same Treaty, all Matters of Difference ariseing betweene the Subjects of the Two Nations are too bee resolved and determined by the mutuall Advise and Consent of both; which hath ever bin the usuall Way in such Cases; neither knowe wee any any other Way for healinge of Differences betweene Two free Nations, which are to bee Brethren and Equalls, and neither of them to bee subordinate to the other. If, therefore, any Difference should arise (which God forbid) betweene the Two Parliaments, or any others of the Subjects of the Two Nations, concerning the disposeing of His Majesty's Person; then the Question cannott bee otherwise resolved and determined, but by the mutuall Advise and Consent of both. How much better is it (according to the Sixth Article of the Covenant) to consult how to prevent all Differences which are like to arise betweene us or our Posterityes!
The Honnorable Houses, in their Wisdome, did thinke fitt that, in the mannaging of this Warre, there should bee a Conjunction of the Councells of both Kingdomes, in Referrence to the English as well as to the Scottish Forces. How much more may wee expect a Conjunction of Councells in disposeing of His Majesty's Person, wherein the One Kingdome is as much interessed as the other!
If more neede to bee said in this Busines, wee hope it is not forgotten how the Declaration of both Houses, and their Commissioners sent into Scotland to desire their Assistance and Engagment in this Warre, did invite, sollicite, and perswade that Nation, upon Principles of common Interest, and in regard the One Kingdome cannott enjoy a firme and durable Peace while the other is in Warre: Wee were alsoe put in Mynde of the Affection and Duty which becometh Brethren. And as wee did, upon these and the like Considerations, espouse our Brethren's Quarrell, soe it cannott bee offensive that wee desire from them an Improvement of the very same Principles; and that the same Measure of the Conjunction of Interests bee given to us, which was gott from us. God forbidd, that Wayes of seperating the Interests of the Kingdomes should now bee studdyed as much as Wayes of unitinge them were before endeavored. Wee cannott but expect better Things from our Brethren then in their Prosperity to desert us, who did engage and joyne with them in their greatest Affliction; or to thinke of secureing their owne Peace without us, while the Troubles of our Kingdome continue.
Wherefore wee cannott choose but obtest, by the common Good of both Kingdomes, by the Conjunction and Parity of Interests, by the Love of Brethren, by Declarations of both Houses, by former Presidents, by the Treatyes betweene the Kingdomes, by the solemne League and Covenant, yea by the very Law of Nations and Rules of common Equity, that there may bee a Conjunction of the Councells and Resolutions of both Kingdomes, in disposeing of that Royall Person, who is King of both; and that all lawfull and possible Meanes (of which this is One and a cheife One) may bee used, which may preserve His Majesty's Person, Honnor, and Happines, according to the Covenant, Monarchicall Government according to the fundamentall Lawes of both Kingdomes, together with a firme and happy Union betweene the Kingdomes.
These Principles wee desire still to goe upon; and therefore, if the Vote of both Houses communicated unto us bee understood as a materiall Demaund of His Majesty's Person to bee delivered unto them, to bee disposed of as they shall thinke fitt; this, as it doth not necessarily followe from the Words of the Vote, nor doth agree with that Sence of the Vote which in Charity wee are most willing to entertaine, soe there are just and greate Reasons against it. Wee acknowledge that wee are not to presume the worst, but the best, concerning the Intentions of the Honnorable Houses towards the King. But wee doe not doubt but it will bee mutually acknowledged, that, for preventing of Differences afterwards, it is most fitt and necessary that there bee a cleere and distinct Understanding betweene the Kingdomes in a Busines of this Nature and Consequence; and that it is not to bee expected from private Persons (though under Jurisdiction), much lesse from annother Kingdome, that they should passe from their Interest or just Security, because they have to doe with such as they judge to bee honest and faithfull.
To speake, therefore to the Nature of the Thing in itselfe: If the Scotts Army should deliver upp His Majesty's Person without His owne Consent, and that upon the Vote communicated unto us, which (although it may suffer a benigne Interpretation, and bee understood of the disposeing of the King's Person favorably and honnorably; yet,) as the Words stand, is comprehensive, and capacious of more then is fitt to bee expressed; this Act of the Army were not agreeable to their Oath of Allegiance (obligeing them to defend His Majesty's Person from all Harmes and Prejudices), nor to the solemne League and Covenant, which was not intended to weaken, but to strengthen our Alleagiance, and to wipe of the Calumny and Aspersion of Rebellion; for which End, before our Engagment in this Warre, it was mutually covenanted betweene the Kingdomes, to preserve the King's Majesty's Person and Authority in the Preservation of the Religion and Libertyes of the Kingdomes, thereby houlding forth to the World that the Preservation and Defence of Religion and Libertyes may well consist, and was intended to consist, with the Preservation of His Majesty's Person and Authority, whome therefore our Army cannott deliver to bee disposed of by any others at Pleasure. This Delivery were alsoe inconsistent with that joynt, equall, and common Interest of both Kingdomes in the Disposall of His Majesty's Person, which wee have before asserted; and where upon the Matter, as passing from the Right and Interest of the Kingdome of Scotland in that Busines, it were alsoe contrary to His Majesty's Power of Residence in any of His Kingdomes, and to the free exerciseinge of the Dutyes of His Place and Acts of Personall Government; such as the Heareing and Redressing of the Greivances of His Subjects in Parliament, and His concurring in the makeing of Lawes: Neither could it stand with the Commissions given to the Committee of Estates and Generall Officers of our Army, or with their Military Oath, to deliver upp their Kinge, without His owne Consent, and without Warrant from the Parliament of Scotland, to bee disposed of by annother Nation; even as it were not to bee expected that the Army under the Commaund of Sir Thomas Fairefax, if they were in Scotland for our Assistance there, in the like Cause, and under the like Engagments, in a Recesse of the Parliament of England, and without their Warrant, would, upon the like Demaund, deliver upp the Kinge (haveing cast Himselfe in their Hands), to bee disposed of by the Parliament of Scotland.
Finally, if it bee contrary to the Lawe and common Practise of Nations to deliver upp the meanest Subject fledd to them, though it bee for the greatest Crymes (for which Cause the Parliament of England, in the 4th of Kinge James, and likewise in the large Treaty, refused a generall Act of Remaunding betweene the Two Kingdomes, unlesse they should bee united into One); how much more would the World abroade condemne our Army for a base and dishonnorable Act, if they should deliver upp their Head and Soveraigne (haveing cast Himselfe into their Hands), to bee disposed of at the Arbitrament of annother Nation.
And now wee hope it will not bee tedious that wee further enlarge ourselves upon this greate Subject, by adding sattisfactory Answers to such Objections as have bin, or may bee made against our Desires and Principles in this Busines.
Answer. It is sufficiently knowne that the Scottish Army came not into this Kingdome in the Nature of Auxilliaryes; for when it was desired by the Parliament of England, that the Kingdome of Scotland should send an Auxilliary Army into this Kingdome, to bee subject to the Directions and Resolutions of both Houses, it was absolutly refused, as may appeare by the severall Papers aboute that Purpose yet extant. The Kingdome of Scotland did forsee and consider how prejudiciall it was to forsake their owne Peace, and what infinite Troubles, Losses, and unavoydable Danger, their Engagment with the Parliament of England against soe powerfull and prevailing an Enemy would bringe upon the Kingdome of Scotland; and, as they regarded not the large Offers, nor the Threats of the other Side, for all their Prosperity, soe there was noe Offer of Pay, or other worldly Advantage whatsoever, from the Houses of Parliament, which could have enduced them to undertake soe hazardous and desperate a Warre: It was the Good of Religion, King, and Kingdomes, they sett before their Eyes; in order to which End, they accounted nothing too deare unto them: And haveing resolved to engage in this Cause for Assistance of their Brethren, they did not stand upon Conditions, but, without Respect to the Season of the Yeare, the greate Strength of the Enemy, and other Discouragments, did in a short Tyme leavy an Army at their owne Charge, and, because of the many Burthens then lying upon this Kingdome, were content for the present to accept of a Summe, towards the Monethly Entertainment of that Army, amounting to little more than Halfe Pay, and to supersede all Demaunds for further Recompence till the Warre should bee at an End. And seeinge the Kingdome of Scotland was to put their owne Peace, and equally with England to undergoe the Hazard of the Warre, it was found reasonable that the Prosecution thereof, and the makeing of the Conditions of Peace after the Warre, should bee with joynt Advise and Consent of both Kingdomes; and according to these Grounds a Covenant was agreed upon, for the Reformation of Religion, and for Preservation of the Libertyes of the Kingdomes, and of the King's Person and Authority, together with a Treaty, wherein it is declared, That the Scotts Army shall bee commaunded by a Generall appointed by the Estates of Scotland, and shal bee subject to such Resolutions and Directions as are and shal bee mutually agreed upon and concluded betweene the Kingdomes or their Committees in that Behalfe appointed, for Pursuance of the Ends of the Covenant; of which One is, to defend and preserve His Majesty's Person.
Objection 2. That the King is in England, and therefore to bee disposed of by both Houses of Parliament, and cannott bee disposed of by the Scottish Army; and though the Kingdome of Scotland may pretend to an Interest and Power in the disposeinge of the King, yet they can have noe Exercise of that Power in England: And albeit the Scottish Army, according to the Treaty betweene the Kingdomes, bee only subject to such Resolutions as are mutually agreed upon by both Kingdomes, or their Committees appointed in that Behalfe, yet this is only to bee understood in orderinge and regulatinge of the Scottish Forces for prosecuting the Warre; and the Treaty extends noe further.
Answer. Although His Majesty's riding One Dayes Journey might wholly subvert the Grounds of this Objection, yet wee shall not insist upon this Answere, because wee conceive it toucheth not the true State of the Question. It hath bin already cleered, what is not, and what is, the State of the Question; which being remembred, wee doe assert, That, the King comeing voluntarily to the Scottish Army, they cannott in Duty deliver Him, against His Will, to the Houses of Parliament, without Consent of the Kingdome of Scotland; for the being in England takes not away the Relation betweene the King and His Subjects of the Kingdome of Scotland, nor ought it to impede the Performance of the mutuall Dutyes founded upon that Relation; for Alleigance hath noe Lymittation of Place, being grounded upon the Law of Nature as well as the Lawe Municipall, and is rather universall than locall. The Difference of Place takes not away the Relation and mutuall Dutyes betweene Parents and Children; and it is not the Place, but the Relation, which gives Interest to the Disposall of the Person of the Kinge. As His being in England takes not away the Relation betweene Him and His Subjects of Scotland, soe it doth not infringe the mutuall Obligations and solemne Engagments betweene the Kingdomes, for joynt Councells, in Prosecution of the Warre, and setling of Peace; the King's comeing to the Scottish Army being an Emergency of our joynt Warre, and the right Disposall of His Person the only Meane (for the present) of our joynt Security and Peace. Neither can the King's being in England prejudge any Right or Priviledge of either Kingdome. It is the fundamentall Right and Priviledge of the Parliament of Scotland and the Liberty of that Kingdome (as wee acknowledge it to bee the Right and Priviledge of the Kingdome of England), that the Person of their King ought not bee disposed of but with their Advise and Consent. The Place of the King's Residence (as was answered to us, when in the large Treaty it was desired His Majesty might sometymes reside in Scotland) is, at His owne Election, in either of the Kingdomes, as the Exigence of Affaires shall require, and He shall thinke fitt; or els must bee determined by the mutuall Advise and Consent of both Kingdomes. From all which Grounds it is apparrant, that the Kingdome where He resides for the Tyme may doe noe Act which may hinder His Majesty to performe the Office and Duty of a Kinge to the Kingdome from which He is absent in Person, nor impede Him to repaire to that Kingdome when the Affaires thereof shall necessarily require it: Otherwise, if the Kingdome where His Majesty resides hath the sole Interest and Right to dispose of His Person, the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland might upon former Occasions, and may now in case the Kinge and Prince shall repaire to Scotland, lawfully deteyne them there, and make it the Place of the ordinary Residence of them and their Posterity, without the Consent of the Kingdome of England, which wee acknowledge could not bee done without a manifest Prejudice and Injury to this Kingdome: Wherefore wee cannott but conclude that wheresoever the King bee, in Scotland or England, He, being the King of both, ought to bee disposed of for the Good, and with the Consent, of both Kingdomes. And if it bee considered that the Scottish Army was invited and called in to this Kingdome by both Houses, in a Treaty, for prosecuting the Ends of a solemne League and Covenant, whereof One is to preserve and defend His Majesty's Person, there can remaine noe Doubt concerninge the Exercise of that Right and Interest in this Kingdome; and therefore it seemes very strange, that when upon Invitation they are come into England, as for other Ends, soe to defend His Majesty's Person, their being in England should bee made Use of as an Argument why they should deliver upp the Person of their Kinge to bee disposed of as both Houses shall thinke fitt. Whereas it is alleadged, that the Treaty extends noe farther then to the ordering and regulatinge of the Scottish Forces in relation to the Warre; although this bee really answered from the Nature of the Thinge, the King's coming to the Scottish Army beinge an Emergency of the Warre, and soe the delivering of His Person comes under the Regulation and Direction of both Kingdomes, or their Committees, as an Act of the Scottish Army: Yet, that all Doubts may bee removed, wee further add, That it is cleere from the 3d Article of the Treaty, that the Scottish Army is to receive the Directions of both Kingdomes, or of their Committees, in all Things which may concerne the Pursuance of the Ends of the Covenant and Treaty, whether in relation to Peace or Warre. In the 8th Article of the Treaty, noe Cessation, Pacification, or Agreement for Peace whatsoever, is to bee made by either Kingdome, or the Army of either Kingdome, without the Advise and Consent of both Kingdomes. And in the 9th Article, all Differences ariseinge betweene the Subjects of the Two Nations are to bee resolved and determined by the mutuall Advise and Consent of both Kingdomes.
Objection 3. That the Scottish Army did carry away the King from the Leaguer before Newarke, when there was a Committee of both Houses there without seekinge their Consent; and that they have since disposed of Him without Consent of the Houses of Parliament; whereas, by the Treaty, they ought to doe nothing without a joynt Resolution of both Kingdomes or their Committees.
Answer. Noe sooner did the King come to the Scottish Army, but the very same Day the Committee of Estates of Scotland residing with that Army did acquaint the Commissioners of both Houses therewith; and, not sattisfyinge themselves with this, the Day following they wrote a Letter to the Committee of Scotland residing at Edinburgh, and annother to the Committee of both Kingdomes here (which was communicated to both Houses), desireinge the Advise of this Kingdome, as in a Matter of common Interest, and declareing they would obey the joynt Resolutions of both Kingdomes; yet noe Answere or Advise was retourned unto them, either from the Houses or their Commissioners; but, immediatly after the Surrender of Newarke, they received Information, that 5000 Horse and Dragoones from Sir Thomas Fairefax his Army were upon their March towards them Northward; (which the Honnorable House of Peeres was pleased to give Order to stopp) there being noe Enemy in those Parts to bee opposed. Upon Consideration whereof, the Quarters wherein they had stayed dureinge the Seidge of Newarke being extreamly exhausted, and the Service for which they came thither beinge performed; for preventing Mistakes, or new Troubles betweene the Kingdomes, they removed into Yorksheir; and the King, as He came unto them of His owne Accord, did voluntarily march along with them. Upon severall Occasions afterwards, they and wee did earnestly desire the Honnorable Houses to send a Committee, to joyne and co-operate with the Committe of Estates there upon the Place, in all Things according to the Treaty; but noe Answere was returned: And from Tyme to Tyme the Houses were acquainted with the Proceedings in that Army, which were, according to the Covenant, and the knowne Resolutions of both Kingdomes, to debarre all such of either or both Kingdomes as had beene in Armes against the Parliaments from comeinge into their Quarters, or to the Courts, or to the King's Person, according to the Desire of the House of Peeres. And whereas it is affirmed, that, by the Treaty, the Scotts Army ought to doe nothing without a joynt Resolution of both Kingdomes or their Committees, there is noe such Clause in the Treaty; but they are to bee subject to such Resolutions as are and shal bee agreed upon and concluded mutually betweene the Kingdomes, or their Committees; as, by Ordinance of Parliament, the Army under the Commaund of the Earle of Essex, or of Sir Thomas Fairefax, was to receive and observe the Directions of the Committee of both Kingdomes sitting at Westm'r: But in case noe new Directions were sent unto them, they were left to former Orders (if any were), or otherwise to their owne Judgment and Discretion. There was never any such Resolution agreed upon betweene the Kingdomes, or their Committees, as that the Scottish Army should not receive the King if He came unto them. But it is an Agreement betweene the Kingdomes (in the Covenant) that they should preserve and defend His Majesty's Person, and (in the Declarations of both Kingdomes) to rescue Him from the common Enemy; soe that, the Scottish Army haveing often desired to knowe the Direction and Advise of the Houses of Parliament concerning the King, and noe new Directions being signifyed unto them, according to the Treaty they were to observe the Directions and Resolutions formerly agreed upon betweene the Kingdomes: And as the Scotts Army doe and will ever acknowledge, that they clayme noe Power to dispose of the King's Person, but are subject to, and shal bee ready to followe, whatsoever both Kingdomes shall agree upon as best for the King and Kingdomes, soe their keeping and preserving His Majesty's Person, as they would doe to any Person of His Eminency and Relation in an Army or Garrison Towne, without the least Thought of hindring His voluntary Retourne to His Parliament, cannott bee reputed or called a Disposeing of His Person.
Objection 4. If any Peere of England goe to the Scottish Army, and desier their Protection, can hee not be disposed of without the Consent of the Committee of Estates of the Kingdome of Scotland residinge with that Army?
Answer. There is a wide and manifest Difference betwixt the Relation the Scottish Army hath to any Subject of England, and the Relation they have to their King, which are sufficiently distinguished in the 3d and 4th Articles of the Covenant; for by the One they are mutually obliged to preserve and defend His Majesty's Person; and by the other they are obliged to endeavor that all Incendiaryes and Dividers betwixt the Kinge and His People, or betwixt the Kingdomes, bee brought to Tryall and condigne Punishment before the Supreame Judicatures of the Kingdomes respectively: And the Kingdome of Scotland hath equall Right and Interest with the Kingdome of England in the Disposall of the Person of the King, which they cannott pretend unto concerninge the Person of any Subject of England.
Objection 5. That, seeing it is alleadged by us, That the disposeing of the King's Person comes in Place of a Peace; then the receivinge of the Kinge unto the Scottish Army without Consent of the Houses as equivalent to the makeing of a Peace without Consent of the Kingdome of England, contrary to the 8th Article of the Treaty.
Answer. It hath bin sufficiently answered before, that the Scottish Army neither hath nor will take upon them to dispose of the Kinge. He came unto them without Capitulation or Treaty; His Residence with them is voluntary and free; and they doe nothing which may hinder Him to come to His Houses of Parliament: But, if the Kingdome of Scotland should consent to the Desire of the Houses, that they may have the sole Disposall of the Person of the Kinge, it being that which comes in the Place of the Peace and Security of both Kingdomes, they would really quitt the Right and Interest they have by the 8th Article of the Treaty concerning the makeing of a Peace; for which soeever of the Kingdomes is acknowledged to have the soe Disposall of the King may without the other make Peace with Him, whom and in what Terme, they please.
Objection 6. That England is a free Nation, and in former Tymes it was in the Power of the Parliament of England to dispose of their Kings; and if One Kingdome pretend to a joynt Right of the disposeing of the King while He is in the other, it is to intrench upon the former Liberty of that Kingdome: That the Kingdome of Scotland hath noe Reason to distrust the Houses of Parliament, who, when the King shall bee in their Power, will not dispose of Him otherwise then may consist with their Duty, according to the Covenant and Treaty betweene the Kingdomes.
Answer. (fn. 8) Wee will not dispute what Power the Houses of Parliament formerly had to dispose of the Person of their Kinge; but whatsoever Power or Right they have, the like is due to the Parliament of Scotland; and soe the Person of the King, being common to both and indivisible, cannott bee disposed of but by Consent of both Kingdomes: It were annother Question indeede, if it were as in former Tymes, if wee had different Kings, if there were not an Union of the Kingdomes under One Head and Monarch, if there were neither Covenant nor Treaty betweene the Kingdomes; but since all these are, and that the Peace and Security of both Kingdomes is soe much concerned in the Disposall of the King, not any One of them without the other can justly pretend to the sole Judgment and Right to determine what is best and most expedient for the Safety and Security of both: Nor can it in Reason bee made an Argument that the One Kingdome distrusts the other, because the One will not renounce and resigne all Right and Interest they have in the Person of the Kinge, and Matter of their owne Security and Peace, to the Judgment and Determination of the other; otherwise, according to this Argument, where there is any Trust, there should bee noe Contract betweene Person and Person, nor Treaty betweene Nations; or, if there bee any Treaty or Agreement, the Performance or Not-performance of it is to bee left to Arbitrament; but wee cannott see that this doth argue any Difference or Distrust, more then when private Persons lendinge Money to the Publique desire Security, and will not depend upon Pleasure: And therefore, though it is not to bee questioned but the Houses of Parliament would dispose of the Person of the King soe as might consist with their Duty in performing the Covenant and Treaty, yet this can bee noe Argument why the Scottish Army should neglect their Duty, or the Kingdome of Scotland quite the Interest and Right they have in the Person of the Kinge.
Objection 7. That the King is in the Possession of the Scottish Army; and though a joynt Advise and Consent of both Kingdomes bee urged for His Disposall, yet, if the Houses of Parliament agree not to what Scotland shall desire, the King doth still remaine in the Power of the Scotts Army, and soe the Parliament of England hath noe Consent.
Answer. If this Argument were turned over, the Strength or Weaknes of it may the more easily appeare: Supposoe the King were here at Westminster; it may bee upon the same Grounds urged that the Kingdome of Scotland would have noe Consent in His Disposall, and soe much the more, that the Houses claime the sole Interest and Judgment to dispose upon the King's Person, which wee desire may bee done joyntly, as may bee best for the Security and Safety of both Kingdomes: And wee see noe Reason why it may not now bee determined when He is in the Scottish Army (who are entrusted by both, and subject to the Resolution of both Kingdomes), as well as hereafter; since He came thither of His owne Accord, and His Residence there is voluntary: And if His Majesty shall thinke fitt to repaire hither to His Houses of Parliament, they shall doe noe Act which may either hinder or disswade Him; but cannott constraine Him, or deliver Him to the Houses to bee disposed of as they shall thinke fitt.
It may now aboundantly appeare, from the Grounds and Considerations before expressed, that the Scottish Army may not deliver upp His Majesty's Person, to bee disposed of by the One Kingdome without the Consent of the other; upon Supposition whereof, wee shall in the next Place (without presuming to prescribe Wayes or impose Conditions) expresse ourselves concerninge some Expedients, which, in referrence to His Majesty, deserve to bee looked upon, considered of, and compared together; where wee shall only premise this much, That, whatever Way shal be taken, if the right End bee looked at, His Majesty's Person ought to bee soe disposed of as may serve most for the Safety and Happines of the King Himselfe, and for the common Peace and Security of the Kingdomes united in this Cause by the solemne League and Covenant, and as may best agree with their Duty, Covenant, and Treatyes.
These Ends being before our Eyes, although it bee most eligible and best of all that His Majesty should without further Delay forthwith give Sattisfaction in the Propositions of Peace (which hath bin with all Instancy pressed, not only by us, but by all the Judicatoryes of the Kingdome of Scotland), and soe retourne fully reconciled to His Houses of Parliament; yet, since (to our unspeakeable Greife) this hath not bin as yet obtained, wee doe propose, That His Majesty's coming to London, or to some of His Houses neere London, with Safety, Freedome, and Honnor, (which is desired by Himselfe), that He may bee heard, and that, upon the cleering of His Doubts, He may knowingly give a sattisfactory Answere to the Propositions, is much better then the other Wayes which may bee expected in case this His Majesty's Desire bee not agreed unto. As for His Majesty's goeing to Ireland, or other-where beyond Sea, it could not bee the Way to a present Peace, now soe much desired; but would certainly prognosticate new Troubles.
Lastly, His Majesty's comeing hither, or neere this Place, is a more probable and hopefull Way to preserve the Union of the Kingdomes; because, the Enemy beinge still in Armes in Scotland, and expecting Supplyes from Ireland, and the Kingdome disabled by their greate Sufferings to entertaine an Army for suppressing the malignant Party, it were much more easy to raise new Forces there, to the Disturbance of the Peace of this Kingdome, then it could bee here, where (by the Blessing of God) all the Forces and Garrisons of the Enemy are subdued, and where it will not bee soe difficult to hinder Delinquents from Accesse to His Majesty.
The Dangers and Inconveniencyes of any of these other Wayes doe soe much preponderate, and the present Condition of Affaires doth soe much differ from that Time when both Houses with our Concurrence did disagree from His Majesty's Desire of comeing to London (at which Tyme He had both Garrisons and Feild Forces unreduced), that it may bee conceived not only safe, but (as Things stand) most convenient, to agree to His Majesty's comeing to London, or neere it, upon such Conditions and Assurances from Him as shal bee by joynt Resolution found necessary, for preventing the Accesse of Delinquents to His Majesty, or any Intestine Commotion, or Forraigne Invasion, to the Disturbance of the Peace of either Kingdome; wee trust it might accelerate a happy Peace, bring the present Difference to an End, and bee noe Greife of Heart afterwards, if upon such Tearmes and Conditions both Houses should bee pleased to revive and renew such an Invitation and Assurance upon their Part, as was conteyned in their Answere to His Majesty's Message of the 11th of September, 1642; where, after Mention made of their cheife Greivances, it was added, [" All this notwithstanding, as we never gave Your Majesty any just Cause of withdrawing Yourself from Your Great Council, so it hath been, and shall ever be, far from us to give any Impediment to Your Return, or to neglect any proper Means of curing the Distempers of the Kingdom, and closing the dangerous Breaches betwixt Your Majesty and Your Parliament, according to the great Trust which now lies upon us; and if Your Majesty shall now be pleased to come back to Your Parliament without Your Forces, we shall be ready to secure Your Royal Person, Crown, and Dignity, with our Lives and Fortunes; Your Presence in this Great Council being the only Means of any Treaty betwixt Your Majesty and them, with Hope of Success."] Diverse such Passages there (fn. 9) are in the Declarations of both Houses, which wee shall not neede to mention.
But, if the Houses of Parliament shall not agree to His Majesty's Desire of comeing hither with Safety, Freedome, and Honnor; wee offer to bee considered, in the next Place, whether it bee not expedient that once againe Commissioners bee sent to His Majesty, in the Name of both Kingdomes, with Power to heare His Desires, and to endeavor the Sattisfaction of Doubts and Scruples; with Intimation alsoe, That, if His Majesty shall not give Sattisfaction in the Propositions, both Kingdomes will, without any more such Applications, consult and joyntly resolve upon other Wayes of their Safety and Security; and upon the other Part, That, if His Majesty will bee now at last graciously pleased to sattisfy the Desires of both Kingdomes, His Majesty's Throne, with His just Power and Greatnes, shall bee established, as well as the Peace and Security of His Subjects.
All which wee doe propound in a brotherly Freedome, not being peremptorily wedded or addicted to any Expedient that wee have offered: But, if the Honnorable Houses, in their Wisdome, shall please to thinke of any other Expedient, which shal bee for the Good, Safety, and Honnor of the Kinge and Kingdomes, wee shal bee most willing and ready to agree unto it, when it shal bee made knowne unto us; not doubting, but that, in the faithfull and conscionable Use of all good and possible Meanes which may prevent Differences betweene the Kingdomes, there will bee at last a sweete and brotherly Agreement, and such a Conclusion as shal bee good in God's Eyes, and wherein both Kingdomes shall finde greatest Comfort and Happines.
Order for cleaning the Streets, against the Funeral of the Earl of Essex.
Whereas there hath formerly been Directions given, That the Streets, from Temple Barre unto the West End of the Abbey Church of Westm'r, should be so paved and cleansed, against the Day of the Funeral of the Right Honourable the late Earl of Essex deceased, whereby the Lords and Commons of the Parliament, and all others in that Proceeding, may pass in the said Streets without Inconveniency or Prejudice by the Foulness of the Ways; and as yet little or nothing hath been done therein: It is therefore Ordered, by the Lords assembled in Parliament, That you cause a streight Command to be given unto all the Inhabitants, and all others whom it may concern, from Temple Barre to The Gatehouse in Westm'r, That they, and every of them, do immediately amend and pave the Streets, where any Defects or Defaults are; and that they cleanse the Streets, and keep them so cleansed, till the Funeral of the said Earl be passed, being Thursday next, as they, and every of them whom it may concern, will answer their Neglects at their Perils.