The Journals of All the Parliaments During the Reign of Queen Elizabeth. Originally published by Irish University Press, Shannon, Ire, 1682.
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On Thursday the first day of March, Four Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the first being the Bill against Strangers born to sell by way of retail Foreign Wares brought into this Realm, was read the first time.
Mr. Serjeant Yelverton, one of the Committees for the examination of the Election and Return of the Members of this House, and also of the Cases for Priviledge, appointed on Monday the 26th day of February last past, happening to fall out during this present Sessions of Parliament shewed, that he and the residue of the Committees for those Causes did meet yesterday in the Afternoon (according to the Commission of this House to them in that behalf) and that having then some Cases brought unto them both touching Elections and Returns in sundry sorts, and also one Case of Priviledge touching one Mr. Fitzherbert, Elected a Member into this House, and alledged to be Outlawed upon Judgment, shewed, that the greater number of the said Committees having travelled in these Cases, did impose upon him the Charge of making the Report thereof unto this House. Which because he would gladly do in such wife, as the more part of the said Committees had assented unto, he had set down the same (he said) in a Note for his better remembrance in writing. And so particularly recited the State of the said Cases treated of amongst the said Committees, and to be so reported over unto this House for the further resolution and order of this House to be had in the same. After which words, although there follow some four lines more in the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, (in which it is generally related, that the rest of this Forenoon was spent in the agitation of this and such like businesses;) yet because neither any particular relation of the Speeches in this business of Mr Fitzherbert, or of those other aforesaid Passages handled in the said Committee touching Elections is there set down (although all the said matter be of very great weight and consequence) I have therefore supplied a great part of the same out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal, more particularly mentioned at the beginning of this present Journal.
Where although all that part of Mr. Serjeant Yelvertons Speech touching Mr. Fitzherberts Election be omitted (and which is before very happily supplied out of the Original Journal-Book it self) yet the rest or at least the greater part of his Relations before mentioned is set down, and is here inserted out of the same, with divers other Speeches used and uttered chiefly touching that Question. All which, (some alterations only excepted for order and explanation sake) are herein inserted out of the said Anonymous Journal in manner and form following, viz.
Serjeant Yelverton spake further also, (after he had finished the Relation of the Committees proceeding touching Mr Fitzherberts Election) concerning the priviledges of the House. In which he declared the Case of the Burgess of Miscread in Cornwall, after whose Election the Town refused to deliver up their Indenture to the Sheriff: But the party Elected made his Indenture and delivered it to the Clerk of the Crown, who filed it with the rest of the Indentures returned by the Sheriffs, the Sheriff having Indorsed it upon the Writ. But this Indenture was never executed by the Sheriff, and yet the Return was holden (by the Committees as it should seem) to be good.
Vide Holinghs. pag. 955. & 956. An excellent Case, of one George Finers a Burgess of Plimouth in Devanshire in the Parliament An. 33 H. 8. Anno Dom. 1541. arrested and taken in Execution by the means of one White, and afterward had his priviledge; also of the TempleCook, who was Servant to Sir Thomas Audley once Speaker of Parliament and after Lord Chancellor, who being arrested was sreed. Which case was cited by King H. 8. himself.
Thomas Fitzherbert of Staffordshire being Outlawed upon a Capias utlagatum after Judgment, is Elected Burges of this Parliament. Two hours after his Election, before the Indenture returned, The Sheriff arrested him upon this Capias utlagatum. The party is in Execution. Now he sendeth this Supplication to this House to have a Writ from the same to be enlarged to have the Priviledge in this Case to be grantable.
He argued thus. That he was not Electable, because in the calling, and in the electing of parties called, there must be chosen Viriidonei*. But a man Outlawed is not idoneus, therefore not Electable. Considering this disability holds in all other Causes of Law, therefore in this that is the greatest. He urged the Authority of 19 H. 7. four parties attainted moved to have their Attainders redressed before they can sit. There 'tis said a man Outlawed for forging false Deeds is not eligible to be of the Parliament.
Then Sir Edward Hobby spake as followeth. The party Outlawed is not out of his wits, therefore capable; and then is a man able to be chosen and idoneus to be a Burgess. Only a differrence may be made where the Outlawry is for a Cause Criminal and for a Case personal, as in this Cause. Is this disability greater? that a man Outlawed may not be a Burgess, as well as an Attorney to a man, or an Executor? I think it will stand with the priviledge of this House to deliver him, though he were Outlawed.
Mr. Lewes said, that a man Outlawed cannot have priviledge, being an Execution upon a Capias, Quia frustra Legis auxilium implorat, qui in Legem peccat. Cardinal Pool would not come into the Parliament House, till the Attainder against him was reversed.
Serjeant Yelverton said, he could not have the priviledge being in Execution upon a Capias utlagatum after Judgment. The Book of 2 Edw. 4. 8. cited to be expresly so. And that a Judge reported unto him, that in 34 Hen. 8. a Burgess being arrested and in Execution upon a Statute, could not have priviledge of the House.
Whereupon Mr. Finch said, he could not tell which to hold or which side to take. The Book of 20 Hen. 7. doth prove that there were Elected such as were Attainted, and that disability was taken against them. The Writ to chuse a Burgess is not Legalem hominem, but Idoneum: Therefore we ought not to be so strict as if he were to be challenged upon a Jury.
At the Common Law, Outlawry was only for Causes Criminal, as for Treason or Felony; but this Outlawry in Personal Causes is only by the Statute of 11 Hen. 4. which makes not so great a disability as that at the Common Law.
Mr. Broughton held, that a man Outlawed may be a Burgess. For in no case is Outlawry disability where a man is en auter droit, as to be Executor or Attorney, it is no Exception to the party. The Case in 38 Hen. 8. Dyer. 62. was cited.
Nota, That these Speeches are all transcribed out of the said Anonymous Journal, more particularly mentioned at the beginning of this present Journal. After which, by occasion of a Message sent down from the Lords, it should seem this business brake off abruptly at this time. And therefore see more concerning it on Friday the 2d day, and on Saturday the 17th day of this Instant March ensuing; and on Monday the 19th day of the same.
The said Message is set down very exactly as it was sent from their Lordships (some things only being added for Order and Explanation in the transcribing of it) in the Original JournalBook of the House of Commons in Manner and Form following.
Mr. Egerton, Attorney General, and Mr. Doctor Carey coming to the House with a Message from the Lords, were sent for in, and were brought up by the Serjeant making three low curtesies before they approached to the Speaker, and delivered their Message to him, which he afterwards propounded to the House. The Message which they brought from their Lordships unto the House was, that their Lordships did desire to put this House in remembrance of the Speeches delivered by the Lord Keeper upon the first day of this Parliament, for Consultation and provision of Treasure to be had against the great and eminent dangers and perils of this Realm, by the mighty adversaries and enemies of the same. And thereupon their Lordships did look to have heard something from this House touching those Causes before this time. And therefore had to that end hitherto omitted to do any thing therein themselves. And thereupon their said Lordships do desire, that according to the former laudable usages between both Houses, to wit, the Lords House and this House in such Cases, a Committee of some grave and setled Members of this House may be appointed to have Conference with a Committee of their Lordships touching the Causes aforesaid. Which done, the said Mr. Attorney and Mr. Doctor Carey being sequestred the House, Mr. Speaker making Report of the said Message to this House, it was presently resolved by the whole House, that such a Committee of this House should be selected thereupon for that purpose accordingly; with this request also from the House, That the said Mr Attorney General and Mr. Carey might both signify unto their Lordships the willing and ready assent of this House unto their Lordships said request, and also move their Lordships touching their pleasure for the number of the Committees to be appointed for their Lordships, and for the times and place of meeting, to be signified from their Lordships to this House; to the end thereupon this House may proceed to the selecting of a convenient number of this House for the said Conference accordingly. And then the said Mr. Attorney General and the said Mr. Doctor Carey being returned into this House again, Mr. Speaker delivered unto them their Answer and the request of this House unto their Lordships in manner aforesaid accordingly.
Mr. Attorney General and Mr. Doctor Carey do bring word from the Lords, that their Lordships do make choice of the number of twenty for their Committee, and that their Lordships do appoint two of the Clock this Afternoon for the time, and the Chamber next unto the Upper House of Parliament for the place. Which done, the said Master Attorney General and the said Mr. Doctor Carey being sequestred, and the said Message delivered unto this House by Mr. Speaker, it was agreed, that a convenient number of this House should be appointed to meet with the Committees of their Lordships at the said time and place accordingly. And then immediately the said Mr. Attorney General and Mr. Doctor Carey being called into this House again, the said Answer was delivered unto them by Mr. Speaker accordingly. Whereupon these Committees following were appointed to attend upon the Committees of the Lords in the said Conference at two of the Clock in the Afternoon of this present day in the Chamber next to the Upper House of Parliament, viz.
All the Privy-Council of this House being in number four, Serjeant Yelverton, Mr. Dyer, Mr Sandes, Sir Henry Unton, Mr Wroth; Sir Henry Cocke, Sir Francis Hastings, Mr Fulk Grevill, Sir Henry Knivet, Sir William Moore, Mr Recorder of London, Mr Heyle, Mr Doctor Awbery, Mr Lewes, Mr Anthony Cooke, Sir Moyle Finch, Mr George Moore, Sir Francis Gudolphin, Mr Francis Bacon, Mr Doctor Awbery, Sir Thomas Shirley, Sir Thomas Stafford, Sir Thomas Conisby, Sir Edward Dymock, Mr John Hare, Mr Barker, Mr Trevor, Sir George Carey, Sir Thomas Cecill, Sir Walter Raleigh, Sir Francis Drake, Sir William Knowles, Sir Thomas Dennys, Sir Henry Poole, Sir Thomas West, Sir Robert Sidney, Mr Tasborough, Mr Flowre, Sir John Payton, Mr William Haymond Sir Edward Hobby, Sir John Harrington, Sir Thomas Read, Sir William Brunker, Mr Doctor Cæsar, Mr Lewkenor, Mr. Atty, Mr. Robert Sackvile, Sir Charles Candish, Mr. Nathanael Bacon, Mr. Doctor Herbert, Mr. Serjeant Harvey, Mr. Serjeant Haman, Sir George Savil, Mr. Henry Finch, Mr. Philips, Sir Thomas Flemming, Sir Nicholas Saunders, Mr. Humphrey Conisby, Sir Edward Grevill, Sir Christopher Blunt, Mr. Cradock and Mr. Grimston.
The Committees in the Bill for reducing of disloyal Subjects to their due Obedience, whose names see before on Wednesday the 28th day of February last past, which should have met this present day in the Afternoon in this House, are appointed over to meet to Morrow next in the Afternoon at the said place.
On Friday the second day of March there was no other business entered upon but that of Mr. Fitzherberts, which being but shortly and imperfectly set down in the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, I thought good to transcribe the relation of the dispute therein had out of that often before-mentioned Anonymous Journal of the same House, in which some small things only being altered (for order sake) it is set down on this present Friday being the second day of March in manner and form following, viz.
After Prayers there was no Bill read, but presently Mr. George Moore spoke to the question of Mr Fitzherberts Election being an Outlawed Person, and of his Arrest upon the Capias utlagatum, after he had been so Elected a Burgess of the House, and before the Indenture in that Case made had been returned unto the Sheriff. Upon all which matters considered of, his opinion was, that he ought not to have priviledge, not to serve as a Member of this House.
Sir Henry Knivet spake next, and as it should seem spake for Mr. Fitzherbert, that he ought to have the priviledge of the House: But had never a new reason, only he took Exceptions that the priviledges of the House and the ancient Customs thereof were not observed; and that men gave not Audience to them that spake, and pleased them not, but were ready to interrupt them.
Mr. Tasborough, Mr. Stephenson, Mr. Bronker, and Mr. Sandes spake severally also touching the same matter, disputing and arguing it pro and con, as well for his being as not being a Member of this House, as also for his having and not having the priviledge of this House; but they gave no other new reasons touching the said Case more than had been already delivered in a former dispute of the same, the day last immediately foregoing.
Mr. Tanfeild speaking next held, that a person Outlawed might be a Burgess of the House. Wherein he made a difference, where exception to the Burgess grew upon matter before the Election, and where after. If the exception grew after, then a Burgess Elected must not be one of the House. If exception be taken to this Election, and this Outlawry alledged to disable him, the Statute of 23 Hen. 6. cap. 15. will disable most of this House; for they ought not to be Burgesses now, if this be not a good Election. Thence it follows, that the party Elected is to have his priviledge. And though the Common Law doth disable the party, yet the priviledge of the House being urged, that prevaileth over the Law.
Then said Mr. Speaker, I desire that I may be heard a word, not that I have any Voice or assent to give, though I am of the House, but because I am a Servant to the House, and have somewhat to speak. It appertaineth to my duty and place, which I desire to have leave to utter, for my Speech shall not tend to meddle to decide the Question, but only to inform the House of my knowledge, and to do that duty which I think belongeth to my self.
The Questions delivered by the Committees were these two. First, Whether Mr. Fitzherbert were any Member of the House; And, secondly, If he were, whether to have the priviledge? It hath been my manner ever since my first practice to observe strange learning, especially such as appertaineth to the Law, as in this of the priviledge of this House, therefore I will inform what I have learned. First this Writ of priviledge must go from the Body of this House, made by me, and I to send it into the Chancery, and the Lord Keeper is to direct it. Now before we make such a Writ, let us know whether by Law we may make it, or whether it will be good for the Cause or no. For my own part my hand shall not sign it, unless my heart may assent unto it. And though we make such a Writ, if it be not warrantable by Law and the proceeding of this House, the Lord Keeper will and must refuse it. No man shall stand more for the priviledge of this House than I will, and what is the priviledge of this House is meet should be observed. To the matter, first there hath been inforc't her Majesties Commandment. I obey any Commandment of her Majesties, knowing them to be Great and Reverend, as far as any body. But I do not take it, that we have received any such Commandment; for her Majesties Commandment by the Lord Steward was to every man that stood Outlawed. We have no such Command.
Now whether a Man Outlawed may be a Burgess, I hold it no question, but that a Man Outlawed, Attainted or Excommunicated, or not lawfully Elected, if he be returned, out of all doubt is a lawful Burgess.
This is proved by Book Authority, and express Statutes, as that of 11 H. 4. Cap. 1. a. a Knight untryed returned shall lose his Wages, therefore allowed by the Statute to be a Knight, though untruly returned, and the penalty is only to lose his Wages. Another Authority is in 8 H. 8. Cap. 10. And if we go to examine persons Elected to Parliament, we shall then dissolve all Parliaments, and call in question all former Laws made, by reason there were not lawful and able Law-Makers. If it appeareth once unto us by Record, that such a Man is Burgess, we must believe the Record and make no question of it. For if such matters shall be examinable by us, then must we try it by witness from the place where the fact was, and so shall those a great way hence be driven by witness to prove whether we be lawful Burgesses or no; which will be very inconvenient. But matters of Record, such as appear unto us to be recorded, these are to be examined by us, for the Record is to be seen. So that for priviledge I would grant it, if it were Sedente Parliamento, & eundo, redeundo, or manendo, to every Member of this House. But the Cause with Mr. Fitzherbert being, that after his Election and before his Return he is Arrested and in Execution by a Capias after Judgment, whether this Man be to be priviledged or no. I will but Speak what I think, and what I have learned, and I have good precedents for. In this Cause he is not to have priviledge. For the question is, whether the Sheriff be to take notice of this Nomination, or not before he is returned unto him Elected: And I think not, for it appeareth not unto the Sheriff before he is returned, whether he be Elected or not. So this Nomination is not a thing whereof he is tyed to take notice.
In Ferris and Tenures Case, in 38 H. 8. fol. 60. You may see this Case. Thomas Thorp 31 H. 6. was chosen Speaker of the Parliament, and after his Election and before the Parliament, upon a Suit betwixt the Duke of York and him, Thorp was taken in Arrest and put in Execution. Hereupon he put up his Petition to the House of Parliament to have the priviledge. Upon the resolution of both Houses it was yielded he could not have the priviledge of the House.
This was also in H. 6. time, and in 2 Ed. 4. fol. 8. I think; the opinion there of Danby is referred to this Cause. And because Mr. Fitzherbert Stood Outlawed upon Judgment, a matter that is recorded, it were meet the whole cause were brought before us, that we might the better judge upon it. And I think this course best standing with the gravity of this House, before that we made out any Writ, to grant a Habeas Corpus cum causa returnable in Chancery, and the Sheriff to appear, the whole matter being transmitted out of the Chancery hither, we to judge upon the whole Record as it shall appear. And upon this Writ granted, the Sheriff bringing up the party, it shall be no escape in the Sheriff, nor the party shall not lose his Action of Debt though he be delivered.
Thus far out of the before-mentioned Anonymous Journal touching the aforesaid Question, how far an Outlawed Man might be a Member of the House. The which and the further proceeding therein being by the Speaker interposing himself for this time reconciled, and upon the matter agreed upon, there followed the agitation of the great business touching the danger of the Realm, and supply to be given to her Majesty, which had been before treated of by two select Committees of either House, as may fully appear by the Report of that which was done at the said Committee made this day unto the House by Sir Robert Cecill who had been one of them. Which being very exactly set down in the Original Journal-Book it self of the said House; is inserted out of it in manner and form following, viz.
Sir Robert Cecill one of the Committees appointed by this House for Conference with the Committees of the Lords shewed, that he and the residue of the Committees of this House did yesterday in the Afternoon repair unto the said Committees of the Lords at the place appointed, where the Lord Treasurer of England in the name of the residue of the said Committees of this the Lords shewed unto the Committees of this House the great and present need of provision of Treasure to be imployed for the defence of the Realm against the Invasion of the great and mighty Enemies unto this Realm and State; and shewing further, that the double Subsidy and Fifteenths and Tenths lastly granted unto her Majesty, amounting but unto two hundred and fourscore thousand pounds, her Majesty hath nevertheless in these defensive Wars expended of her own Treasure alone ten hundred and thirty thousand pounds since the time of the granting of the said double Subsidy and of the said Fifteenths and Tenths. And that therefore their Lordships weighting the great present necessity of greater and more speedy supply of Treasure to be had than two intire Subsidies and four Fifteenths, do negatively affirm, That their Lordships will not give in any wise their assents to pass any Act in their House of less than three intire Subsidies to be paid in the three next years at two payments in every of the same years, the first to begin soon after of the next Easter, and the second soon after the next Michaelmas, and so yearly after Easter and Michaelmas during the said three years. And that to what proportion of benevolence or unto how much their Lordships would give their assents in that behalf, they would not as then shew unto the said Committees of this House. But insisting for Conference again to be had he further urged, that this House might be moved to yield a greater supply. To which end he alledged, that the usual late Subsidies were very small, and were also imposed for the most part upon the meaner sort of her Majesties Subjects; declaring, that he knew one Shire of this Realm wherein there were many men of good living and countenance, but none of them in the said last Subsidies assessed at above fourscore pound Lands per Annum. And that in the City of London also, where the greatest part of the riches of the Realm are, there was no one assessed at above two hundred pound goods a man, and that not yet past above four or five such. Which Speech in effect being ended, and in far better sort delivered than he had reported it, he in Conclusion referred the further consideration thereof to the gravity of the House.
Nota, That that which follows touching the Conclusion of this Forenoons business, as also touching the agitation of the aforesaid great matters, of the danger of the Realm, and of a proportionable supply to be given, which ensued in the House at the Committee in the Afternoon, are either very imperfectly set down or wholly omitted in the Original Journal-Book it self, and are therefore supplied out of the said Anonymous Journal more particularly mentioned at the beginning of this present Journal.
Mr Francis Bacon as soon as Sir Robert Cecill had made an end of the former report of the business handled at the said Committee, of which himself also had been one. Speake next, and yielded to the Subsidy, but misliked that this House should join with the Upper House in the granting of it. For the Custom and Priviledge of this House hath always been, first to make offer of the Subsidies from hence, then to the Upper House, except it were that they present a Bill unto this House, with desire of our assent thereto, and then to send it up again. And reason it is, that we should stand upon our priviledge, seeing the burthen resteth upon us as the greatest number; nor is it reason the thanks should be theirs. And in joining with them in this Motion, we shall derogate from ours; for the thanks will be theirs and the blame ours, they being the first movers.
Wherefore I wish that in this Action we should proceed, as heretofore we have done, apart by our selves, and not join with their Lordships. And to satisfie them who expect an Answer from us to Morrow, some Answer would be made in some obsequious and dutiful manner.
And out of his Bosom he drew an Answer framed by himself to this effect: That they had considered of their Lordships Motion, and thought upon it as was fit, and in all willingness would address themselves to do as so great a Cause deserved. To join with them he said he could not, but with prejudice to the priviledge of the said House. Wherefore he desired as they were wont, so that now they might proceed herein by themselves a part from their Lordships, and that they might do it without discontent. To this purpose he cited a precedent in H. 8. time, where four of the Lords came down into the House of Commons, and informed them what necessity there was of a Subsidy: And that thereupon the House took it to consideration a part by themselves, and at large granted it. By which it should seem that he did infer, that the Lords might indeed give notice unto the said House of Commons, what need or danger there was, but ought not to prescribe them what to give, as at the meeting of the former Committee the Lord Treasurer had done.
Whereupon the House well approving the said Mr Bacon's Opinion, it was upon the Question Ordered, That the former Committees of this House in the same Cause (whose names see on Thursday the first day of this instant March foregoing) should meet here in this House at two of the Clock in the Afternoon of this present day, for framing of an Answer of this House to be made unto the said Motion of the said Committees of the Lords, and to make Report to Morrow in the Morning to this House of such their Answer so to be framed; to the end the same being agreed on and allowed by this whole House, may presently thereupon be signified unto the said Committee of the said Lords accordingly: for that the said Committees of this House did yesterday shew unto their Lordships, that their Lordships should then receive an Answer of this House unto their Lordships said Motion.
In the Afternoon of this present Friday aforesaid the Committees met in the House according as it had been Ordered in the Forenoon by the said House, and spent all the time in many good Discourses and Disputations for the Subsidy: But a great part thereof was spent in arguing what the matter was which was referred unto them by the House; whether a Subsidy should be yielded and that signified for an Answer from them to the Lords; Or whether the Committees were only to consider of an Answer according to Mr Bacons Motion, That this House would alone by themselves consider of the Subsidy without joining.
Sir William Moore shewed, first, That her Majesty had more Cause to have the Subsidy than had H. 8. E. 6. or Queen Mary; for H. 8. his Wars continued not, though they were violent for the time. His Wars were impulsive and not defensive. He had the suppression of all the Abbies, a matter of great riches unto him. He had a Benevolence and then a Subsidy paid within three Months. Edw. 6. had Chantries and all the Church Plate for relief paid him. Queen Mary had a relief paid her, which she never repaid. But her Majesty that now is, hath been a continual defence of her own Realm and her Neighbours Kingdoms, England, Ireland, France and the Low Countries; yet hath the repaid the Loans, and had not such helps.
Sir George Carey said, I speak for the Subsidy, (first answering one that had said, we must regard them and their Estates for whom we be here) saying, he regarded and came for them as was meet; and they will more thank us for taking somewhat from them, than if we should abandon them and leave them and all that they have to the spoil of the Enemy; which will be, if with Forces we provide not to withstand them. For eminent dangers hang over our heads, and are intended to us this Summer. The Spaniard already hath sent seven thousand Pistolets of Gold into Scotland to corrupt the Nobility, and to the King twenty thousand Crowns now lately were dispatched out of France into Scotland for the Levying of three thousand, which the Scottish Lords have promised; and the King of Spain will Levy thirty thousand more, and give them all Pay. Her Majesty is determined to send Sir Francis Drake to Sea to encounter them with a great Navy. Wherefore this our danger is to be prevented, and those her Majesties infinite Charges by us to be supplied.
Sir Walter Raleigh Spake for the Subsidy, not only (as he protested) to please the Queen, to whom he was infinitely bound above his deserts, but for the necessity he both saw and knew. He very well discovered the great strength of the King of Spain. And to shew his Mightiness, he told how he possessed all the World. As also that his malice and ill purpose was evident to this Realm, he shewed how on every side he had beleaguered us.
In Denmark the King being young he had corrupted the Council and Nobility so as he was very like to speed himself of shipping from thence. In the Marine Towns of the Low Countries, and in Norway he laid in great store of shipping. In France he had the Parliament Towns at his Command. In Brittany he had all the best Havens. And in Scotland he had so corrupted the Nobility, that he had promised them Forces to re-establish Papistry. That they were ready to joyn with any Foreign Forces that would make them strong, to be by themselves and to resist others. For as he thought there were not fix Gentlemen of that Country of one Religion. In his own Country there is all possible repairing, and he is coming with sixty Gallies besides other Shipping with purpose to annoy us. We must then have no Ships (if he invade us) riding at Anchor, all will be little enough to withstand him. At his coming he fully determineth to get Plymouth, or at least to possess some of the Havens this Summer within our Land. And Plymouth is a place of most danger, for no Ordnance can be carried thither to remove him, the passages will not give leave. Now the way to defeat him is this, to send a Royal Army to supplant him in Brittany, and to possess our selves there: And to send a strong Navy to Sea, and to lye with it upon the Cape and such places as his Ships bring his Riches to, that they may set upon all that come. This we are able to do, and undoubtedly with fortunate success if we undertake it.
On Saturday the third day of March, Sir Henry Knivett entred into a discourse touching the priviledge of this House, of ancient time used and accustomed, for the conventing of any person into this Court; thinking for his Opinion, that Mr Fitzherbert is rather to be called to appear in this House by the Serjeants Mace of this House, than by any Writ of the Chancery. And so entring into a recital of George Ferrers his Case, was put in remembrance by Mr Speaker, that the manner for the bringing in of the said Mr Fitzherbert had received the Order of this House yesterday, and was therefore now neither to be recalled nor further treated of by this House, till the appearance of the said Mr Fitzherbert be first here made in this House according to the said former Order for the same.
Sir Robert Cecill, one of the Committees for the framing of an Answer of this House to be made to the motion of the Lords concerning the Subsidy did meet yesterday in the Afternoon, and having had much speech and many Arguments, did not as then conclude or resolve of any form of Answer at all; for that sundry of the same Committees then seemed diversly to conceive of the substance of the matter delivered to them in Charge by this House, some conceiving it to tend only to the Consideration of the said Note read by the said Mr Francis Bacon and no further; and some again, that their Commission was to treat generally of such a form of Answer unto the said Motion, as the more part of the same Committees should think fittest, and the same afterwards to be reported to this House, and referred further to the consideration of this House, to be liked of or not liked of at their pleasure. And shewed further, that he and the residue of the said Committees, had met together again this Morning, and that the most part of the said Committees had for their parts yielded to grant Conference with the Lords, if this House should so think good, and had appointed him to signify the same unto this House in the name of the said most part of the said Committees, which he said he had now done according to their charge which they had imposed upon him. And so referring his said report to the censure of the residue of the more part of the said Committees he ended his Speech.
Mr Wroth one other of the said Committees, not any way excepting to any part of the said Report made by the said Sir Robert Cecill so as before resolved by the more part of the said Committees for yielding of Conference unto the Lords, shewed, that he for his own part being also one of the said Committees, did not at that time give his assent, neither yet now doth, that any Conference should be had with the Lords in the said Case, for that in his opinion the same would be much prejudicial to the Ancient Liberties and Priviledges of this House, and to the Authority of the same.
Mr Beale likewise shewing himself to be of the same mind with Mr Wroth, and insisting upon the preservation and maintenance, of the former usual and ancient Liberties and Priviledges of this House in treating of Subsidies, Contributions and other like benevolences amongst themselves, without any Conference therein at all had or used with the Lords of the Higher House, doth give an instance of a former precedent in the like Case; and offered to shew forth the same precedent to this House, which (being omitted in the Original Journal-Book it self, is here inserted out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal more particularly mentioned at the beginning of this present Journal, and) was as followeth. In Anno nono H. 4. the two Houses being divided about the Subsidy, and the Higher House desiring a greater Subsidy than was granted by the Lower House; hereupon twelve that were sent as Committees to the Lords came down, and informed what was desired by the Upper House; namely a greater Subsidy, and to that end Conference to be had with them of the House of Commons. The Commons thought themselves grieved therewith, and so returned their Answer that they would consider what was meet to be done in so general a matter, but thought the Conference a Derogation to the priviledge of the House. Hereupon the King Answered, that he could not, neither was it fit to violate the priviledge of his Commons, but in all things thought it just to prefer them. Which said precedent being thus inserted out of the Anonymous Journal, the rest that followeth is continued out of the Original Journal-Book it self taken in the House and committed to writing by Mr Fulk Onslow at this time Clerk of the House of Commons. For it should seem, the Speaker and the greater part of the House very well approving, and being satisfied fully with the aforesaid precedent cited by Mr Beale, yet those of her Majesties Privy Council and the Courtiers also at this time of the House were still earnest for admitting of a Conference with the Lords. And thereupon.
Sir Robert Cecill spake again, and did put the House in rememberance of the great and urgent necessity for the speedy prevention and avoiding of the great and eminent perils and dangers of this Realm and State, to be effected both by Consultation and also by provision of Treasure; and thinketh good that Conference of this House were had with the Lords as a matter very behoofful: Especially for that their Lordships some of them being of her Majesties Privy-Council do know both the purposes and strength of the Enemies on the one side, and also her Majesties present store of Treasure more or less, on the other side; much better than those of this House do. Resolveth for his own Opinion still to give his consent that Conference be had therein with the Lords, by the Committees of this House; according to their Lordships said former Motion and request for the same.
Sir William Brunker stood up, and reciting the said great present necessity of consultation and provision, and that it cannot be otherwise, but that the proportion of convenient supply of Treasure answerable to the greatness of the dangers which are imminent, must needs require a greater Mass of Treasure to be had, than hath been as yet treated of in any resolution by this House. And then the Question being urged and by the Order of the House propounded, whether Conference should be had with the Lords, upon the Motion of the Committees of the Lords to the Committees of this House in this Case or no, it was upon the doubtfulness of the Voices, twice given upon the Question thereof twice propounded, resolved upon the division of the House; That no such Conference should be had with the said Committees of the Lords, by the said Committees of this House; for the number of them which were for the said Conference, and said I, went out of the said House, and were found to be in number but a hundred twenty eight, whereas those that were against the said Conference and said No, sate still in the House being in number two hundred and seventeen. So that the matter was over-ruled by eighty nine Voices; with which the Order and Judgment of the whole House went thereupon accordingly.
After the delivery of this Bill thus sent from the Lords the House proceeded in the further agitation of the foregoing great business which by the bringing down of the last mentioned Bill from their Lordships had been a while interrupted. For it having been already over-ruled by the House, that there should be no Conference admitted with the Lords touching the matter of the Subsidy, which their Lordships had desired, it was therefore Ordered upon a Motion made in the House, that some Answer might presently be sent from thence to their Lordships to satisfie them touching their said Motion for Conference; for that in respect the said Conference had been already denied and had been voted to be prejudicial to the Liberties of the House by the Judgment of the same, that a convenient number of this House should be appointed presently in the name of this whole House to give unto their Lordships most humble and dutiful thanks with all due reverence for their said Lordships good, favourable and courteous offer of Conference with this House in the said Cause; and to signify unto their Lordships, that this House cannot in those Cases of Benevolence or Contribution join in Conference with their Lordships without prejudice to the Liberties and Priviledges of this House, and of the infringing of the same: and therefore do in most humble wise request and defire their good Lordships to hold the Members of this House excused in their not assenting unto their Lordships said Motion for Conference; for that so to have assented without a Bill, had been contrary to the Liberties and Priviledges of this House, and contrary also to the former precedents of the same House in like Case had. Which done, all the former Committees of this House were presently appointed to declare the said Answer of this House unto their Lordships, and Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer appointed to declare the same. And for this purpose were nominated and chosen.
All the Privy-Council now in this House being four, Sir Henry Unton, Mr Wroth, Mr Beale, Sir William Brunker, Sir Walter Raleigh, Sir Charles Cavendish, Sir Edward Hobby, Sir Thomas Cecill, Sir George Carey, Sir Robert Sidney, Sir Thomas West, Mr Anthony Cooke, Mr Tasborough, Sir William Moore, Mr George Moore, Mr Serjeant Yelverton, Sir Francis Drake, Sir Francis Hastings, Sir William Knowles, Sir Fulk Grissin, Mr William Haward, Sir Charles Blunt, Sir John Harrington, Mr Herbert Master of Requests, Mr Arthur George, Sir Thomas Conisby, Mr Dyer, Mr Doctor Awbery, Mr Edward Barker, Mr Robert Sackvile, Sir Henry Poole, Sir Edward Stafford, Sir Thomas Read, Sir Henry Cock, Mr Lewkenor, Sir John Points and Sir Edward Carey, who forthwith went up to the Lords of the Upper House with the Message of the said Answer accordingly. And shortly after returning again from thence to this House the said Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer made report of their delivery of the said Answer to the Lords; and shewed, that their Lordships well hoped to have had Conference with this House, according to their former request. And so wished this House to have due care and great consideration touching the speedy provision of a convenient supply of treasure to be had according to the present great necessity of the said Cause. And shewed, that their Lordships desired to see those precedents of this House, by which this House seemeth to refuse the said Conference. And so gave end to his Speech for that time.
One being no Member of this House, and yet found to have sitten in this House, during the greater part of this Forenoon, was brought to the Bar, and being there examined by Mr Speaker of his name and place of abode; answered his name to be John Legg, and that he was Servant to the Earl of Northumberland; and pleading simplicity and ignorance for his excuse, and alledging that he had some business to do with Mr Doctor Herbert Master of the Request from the said Earl his Master, and that therefore he entred into the said House, not thinking any harm nor knowing the danger thereof. And so humbly praying pardon, was in the end committed to the Custody of the Serjeant of this House, till this House shall upon further Examination of the matter take other Order.
Four Bills also had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill touching George Ognell Esquire had its first reading. The substance where of is taken out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal (more particularly mentioned at the beginning of this present Journal) in manner and form following, viz.
One Trussell having sold the Mannor of Binsley to Ognell for good consideration, and afterwards of purpose to defeat this Purchase, caused himself to be Indicated of Felony done in Kent before the Seal to Ognell, and was thereof Attained, and with relation of the Felony defeated Ognells purchase; It was Enacted, that this Attainder should be void only as in respect of this Purchase, and to that end to be as if Trussell had never been Attained, nor no Lords to have any Escheats or other by reason of this Attainder. Her Majesty understanding this, was pleased to remit her Interest.
Nota, that these two particulars are only supplied out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal, and that which followeth and also that which went before, is inserted out of the Original Journal-Book it self.
Sir Edward Dymock moved, that a Commit tee of this House may be appointed for a speedy Conference to be had touching the present necessary provision and Supply of Treasure to be had for the defence of this Realm and State. And thereupon the former Committees for the Subsidy (whose names see before on Monday the 26th day of February last past) were ordered to meet upon Monday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in this House, to confer in this Case.
On Monday the 5th day of March, Two Bills of no great moment had each of then one reading; of which the second being the Bill against the stealing of Oxen, Kine, Sheep and Lambs, was upon the second reading committed unto Mr Wroth Mr Sands, Mr Recorder of London and others; and the Bill was delivered to Mr Wroth, who with the rest was appointed to meet in this House to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
The Bill concerning salted Fish and salted Herrings was read the second time, and thereupon committed unto Sir Francis Drake, Sir Thomas Sherley, the Burgesses of Yarmouth, Plymouth, Hull and Saltash, the Burgesses of all the Port Towns, Mr. Robert Wroth, Sir Henry Knivet and others; and the Bill was delivered to Mr. Wroth, who with the rest was appointed to meet upon Wednesday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
Nota, That after the Commitment of these Bills ensued divers Speeches touching that great business of Conference, with the Lords which had been very largely debated on Saturday last in the House. All which said Speeches being either very shortly and imperfectly set down in the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons or wholly omitted, and for which three intire pages and more are there left Blank to have inserted them (in which are set down the names only of some of those that spake them) therefore they are supplied out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal very elaborately taken by some Member of the said House during this Parliament, and do here next ensue in manner and form following.
Mr. Beale desired to satisfy the House, by reason it was conceived by the Lords the other day, that upon his Motion, and by his precedent shewed, the House was led to deny a Conference with the Lords, he acknowledged the had mistaken the question propounded. For there being but a Conference desired by the Lords, and no confirming of any thing they had done, he thought we might, and it was fit we should confer. And to this end only he shewed the Precedent, That in the 9th year of H. 4. the Commons having granted a Subsidy, which the Lords thought too little, and they agreed to a greater and would have the Commons to confirm that which they had done; this the Commons thought they could not do without prejudice to this House. Wherefore he acknowledged himself mistaken in the Question, and desired if any were led by him, to be satisfyed, for that he would have been of another opinion if he had conceived the matter as it was meant.
Sir Henry Knivett moved, that for the freedom of the House it might be concluded amongst them a matter answerable at the bar, for any man to report any thing of any Speech used, or matters done in this House.
Sir Henry Upton spake in defence of the former proceedings of the House, and shewed how it had proceeded; first agreeing to a double Subsidy and four Fifteenths, this being offered, and the Lords thinking it seemed little, and considering the present necessity, the lack of payment of Subsidies, and the true rating of Subsidies, over that they were wont to be, they destired a Conference with the Lower House, giving reasons of great Importance for a greater aid; and they gave us a taste of what was needful, as three Subsidies at the least; and upon those great Causes desired a Conference the next day. This being delivered unto the House by one of the Committees sent to the Lords, the House upon Consideration thought it not to stand with their Priviledge to confer with their Lordships in matter of Subsidies, because it was the liberty of the House to make Offer themselves to her Majesty. And in regard it stood not with the Priviledge of this House to confer with the Lords, hereupon they advise upon an Answer to be made unto the Lords, wherein they should give them thanks that they had vouchsased to conser with them of this House; but shewed, that with the Priviledge of the House they could not have Conference with them in matter of Subsidy.
Further he thought the House much injured, that they should be reported to be against the Subsidy; and the Parties injured who speaking the last day against the Subsidy, their names were given up, and were noted for it to the Queen.
And now my Motion is, that we must confer with the Lords upon the Subsidy, but not in any sort to be conformed therein unto them. And for that occasion past, he desired that Mr Speaker might be sent and report the truth of the whole matter and manner of our proceedings.
Sir Robert Cecill spake next and said, I desire now I may be somewhat long, because I must include an Answer to three Speeches. Those two Honourable Persons that sit above, the one of them declared the true state of the Question, the other what was sit we should do. But my Answer shall tend only to those Tales that followed. The first was a kind of satisfaction for a former mistaking; but in the same satisfaction a new mistaking was also; which was by way of information, casting it into the House, that the Queen should seem to demand three Subsidies. Now the Queen never demanded three, nor one. So there is a new mistaking added to the former satisfaction.
The second Mans Motion thus far I allow, That the Counsel of this House be secretly kept, and that nothing be reported in malam parte: But if his meaning be, that we may not impart any thing that is done here unto the Queen, but that all things must be secret from her, I am altogether against it. This only I should desire, what ought to be observed, That nothing ought to be reported unto her in malam partem.
The third Mans Motion consisted of three points. The first was News, the second was History, and the third and last a Motion. His News was, that Mens names were given up to the Queen. This was News. For I heard it not before. The History was a large Report of the Progress of this matter. His Motion was, that we should confer with the Lords about a Subsidy with them, but not conclude a Subsidy with them. His matter seems contrary to his meaning, or else is more than ever was meant; for it was never desired of us by the Lords, that we should confer with them about a Subsidy.
Sir Walter Raleigh spake next and moved, that seeing the division of the House the last day grew as he conceived upon the mistaking of the question, and that since some had reported unto him, that had the question been propounded whether they should only yield to a Conference in general with the Lords, they would not have been against it; and therefore he desired Mr Speaker to put it to the Question, whether they should confer with the Lords generally or not, without naming a Subsidy. This Motion being well liked, Sir Walter Raleigh was desired by the House to repeat it again, that so it might be the better heard of them all. And thereupon he said, that touching the aforesaid question which had received a No upon Saturday last foregoing, he would not make it a Question again, for by the Order of the House he could not; but propounded this for a new Question in these or the like words, Whether the House would be pleased to have general Conference with the Lords touching the great imminent dangers of the Realm and State, and the present necessary supply of Treasure to be provided speedily for the same according to the proportion of the necessity. Which said Question being propounded unto the House, it was assented unto accordingly by them all without any negative Voice.
And thereupon the former Committees appointed for Conference with their Lordships (whose names see before on Thursday the first day of this Instant March) were presently sent up from this House unto their Lordships to signify the resolution of this House in yielding to the said general Conference with their Lordships according to their former desire. And that Sir Thomas Heneage her Majesties Vice-Chamberlain should make report thereof from this House unto their said Lordships.
Upon a Motion made by Mr Serjeant Harris for the Order of this House for setting at liberty of John Legg Servant to the Earl of Northumberland, who was found sitting in this House upon Saturday last and is no Member of the same, and was thereupon committed to the Serjeants Ward till further Order should be taken with him by this House; the Serjeant of this House is appointed to have the said John Legg here to Morrow Morning.
The Bill touching the true assizing of Bread had the second reading, and was committed to the former Committees in the Bill concerning salted Fish, and salted Herrings (appointed in the beginning of this present day) and to meet at the same time and place, as for the said Bill touching salted Fish and salted Herrings is appointed; And the Bill was delivered to Mr Wroth one of the said Committees.
The Bill for Naturalizing of Samuel Saltingstall and others born beyond the Seas was upon the second reading committed to Mr Treasurer, Sir Thomas West, Mr Recorder of London, Sir Henry Knivet and others, and the Bill was delivered to Sir Thomas West, who with the rest was appointed to meet upon Wednesday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
Mr Vice-Chamberlain and the residue of the Committees making their return from the Lords, he shewed their Lordships ready good will in accepting the offer of Conference of this House with their Lordships. And their Lordships have appointed for that purpose a Committee of two and twenty of themselves to join in Conference with the Committee of this House, and have appointed the place to be in the Chamber next to the Upper House of Parliament, and the time to be to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon. And thereupon the Committee of this House appointed to have conferred amongst themselves for the matter of the Subsidy this present Afternoon in this House, are appointed to deser their futher consultation therein, until the said other Committees of this House appointed for the said general Conference with the Lords shall have further acquainted this House of their travail and treaty to be first had with the said Committees of the Lords. And also the meeting of the Committees in the Bill for reducing of disloyal Subjects to their due obedience is now signified to the same Committees to be held in the Afternoon of this present day in this place.
On Tuesday the 6th day of March, Two Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill for Confirmation of Letters Patents granted to the Mayor, Sheriffs, Citizens and Commonalty of the City of Lincoln was read the second time.
Sir Edward Hobby one of the Committees for Returns and Priviledges shewed, that for the Borough of Camelford in the County of Cornwall, one Richard Leech was returned to the Sheriff for a Burgess by a false Return: And that afterwards Sir George Carew Knight, was returned Burgess by the true Return. And alledging that the said Richard Leech offered to yield the place to Sir George Carew, moved the Order of this House therein. And thereupon Mr Speaker was appointed to move the Lord Keeper in the said Case for his Order, either in the allowance of the said Sir George Carew in the place of the said Richard Leech, or else in awarding a new Writ for the chusing another at his Lordships pleasure. And so for his Lordships Order in the Case of the Burgess returned for the Borough of Southwark, in the allowance of Richard Hutton already returned, or else in awarding of a new Writ for chusing of another at his Lordships pleasure. And so also for his Lordships Order in altering the name of John Dudley to the name of Thomas Dudley in the Return of one of the Burgesses of Newtown in the County of Southampton, or else to award a new Writ at his Lordships pleasure.
The Bill against Aliens born to sell by way of retail Foreign Wares brought into this Realm, was upon the second reading committed unto Sir John Wolley, Sir Edward Stafford, Sir Robert Sidney, Mr Recorder of London and others, who were appointed to meet upon Thursday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
The Bill touching Mr Read Stafford, & c. was upon the second reading committed unto Mr Heyle, Sir Edward Stafford, Sir Henry Umpton, Sir Thomas West and others, who were appointed to meet upon Monday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Star Chamber.
Mr Vice-Chamberlain putting the House in remembrance of their resolution yesterday for praying Conference with their Lordships touching the great dangers and necessary remedies to be considered of, and which was then so signified unto their Lordships by the House, which return from their Lordships of the time and place appointed by them for that Conference, being at two of the Clock in the Afternoon this present day, in the Chamber next to the Upper House of Parliament, moved that it may be presently resolved in this House, wherein and how far the said Committees of this House shall have Warrant to treat with the Committees of the Lords. It was after many Speeches of sundry Members of this House very well delivered to divers effects and purposes resolved and agreed by the whole House upon the Question, that the said Committees of the House should have Authority to confer with the said Committees of the Lords generally concerning the said dangers and remedies as occasion should ferve: But not in any manner of wise to conclude or resolve of any thing in the said Conference particularly, without the further privity or assent of this whole House to be had in that behalf, upon the report of the said Committees to be first made unto this House of their Proceedings in the said Conference to be had this present day as aforesaid.
Nota, That there is no more found of this days Passages in the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, although there be almost two pages left blank by Mr Fulk Onslow at this time Clerk of the said House, with intention doubtless at the first to have inserted them, and therefore they are very largely and fully supplied out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal very elaborately taken by some Member of the same House during this Parliament, where it appeareth that after the aforesaid Speech of Sir Thomas Heneage her Majesties Vice-Chamberlain, Mr Oliver St John spake next in the manner and form following.
Mr Oliver St John said, he thought that Mr Vice-Chamberlain did mistake the thing we agreed upon, that we went not to confer with their Lordships in any thing that we had to deliver, but to understand of things from them, the Conference being offered from them and not from us.
Sir Walter Raleigh Answered Mr St John, that he mistook Mr Vice-Chamberlain, and the thing agreed by the House; for we agreed all to a general Conference, but not in particular for the Subsidy, for this we resused. If we confer generally, it must be of our dangers, and of the remedies, which must be by means; if of means, it must be of Money and Aid. So our Conference must needs be of Subsidy, or rather Aid; but to agree upon this with any resolution either in the matter or substance, it is not our meaning.
Sir Robert Cecill answered Mr St John, that he mistaking Mr Vice-Chamberlain, did wrong him in saying he delivered the Message insufficiently or untruly, and so would have the priviledge of the House; and that it should be delivered by the Committees whether Mr ViceChamberlain did report truly; and if truly, then Mr St John to answer it: and so said Sir John Woolley.
The House having cleared Sir Thomas Heneage Vice-Chamberlain, he said he would have no other satisfaction than to be cleared by the House. And protested, he thought no ill of the Gentleman, but allowed him for speaking as he thought.
Sir Henry Umpton agreed to the Conference, and was glad the last days No and this were so well concluded; and moved, that we might not be deprived of thanks, to agree unto a treble Subsidy before we went to confer.
Mr Frowick Grevill said: There are two scruples in the House, which I would gladly satisfy; the one the priviledge of the House, the other the poverty of the people. For Precedents they are but Examples of things past. Now every Example ought to be stronger than the thing we fear: for if the thing be otherwise and our necessity greater, the former doings are no Rules to us. And so Precedents as they are not to be rejected, so they ought not to be Eternal. For the poverty of our Country, we have no reason to think it poor, our sumptuousess in Apparel, in Plate and in all things, argueth our riches. And our dearth of every thing amongst us, sheweth plenty of Money. But it is said, our Countries are poor, and we must respect them that sent us hither. Why, so we must also remember who sent for us hither. This Cause is hard; for there is necessity against necessity, danger against danger, and inward discontent against outward Forces. The poor are grieved by being overcharged; this must be helped by increasing our own Burthen; for otherwise the weak feet will complain of too heavy a body; that is to be feared. If the feet knew their strength as we know their oppression, they would not bear as they do. But to answer them, it sufficeth that the time requireth it. And in a Prince power will command. To satisfy them, they cannot think we overcharge them, when we charge our selves with them and above them: But if nothing will satisfy them, our doings are sufficient to bind them. If the multitodes of Parliaments be remembred heretofore, many Subsidies now in one Parliament cannot seem burthensome. The more Laws we make, the less liberty we have to our selves. And now one word for my self, if my Speech hath offended, excuse me, I will not often trouble you hereafter.
Mr Speaker said, I do not desire to be thought arrogant, for the thing which I will speak shall be out of duty belonging to my place. Because I see many Speeches grow upon mistaking, and one Speech mistaken to cause another mistaking, & sic undam gignere undam, and so a great deal of time lost in words; hereafter I will be bold, if any man mistake in the point of a Bill, to tell him of it before his Speech proceed; for this Question of conferring with the Lords has taken up so much time only by mistaking; for 'tis granted by the House to have a General Conference.
They that should confer had need be authorized and instructed what to confer upon; for he that hath but delegatam Potestatem, will think nothing Promissum that is not Commissum; and 'tis certain non utile est, ubi nulla est curatio morbi. Therefore understand what is needful to confer upon.
No Return can be amended in this House. For the Writ and Return are in Chancery and must be amended there. And in the Chancery this is the Rule, if the Sirname or the proper name of a party be mistaken in the Return, the Lord Keeper will not amend it; for such tender consideration is had of the free Election by the Corporations, as no Information shall be credited against the Return, but the Lord Keeper will first make out a Writ reciting the mistaking in the former Return, and then they by the same Writ shall have Authority to make a new Election. Thus far out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal.
On Wednesday the 7th day of March, Sir Edward Hobby moving the Cause of Mr Fitzherbert his bringing up unto this House by a Writ of Habeas Corpus cum causa from the Lord Keeper, showeth, That he hath moved the Lord Keeper touching the said Writ, and that his Lordship thinketh best in regard of the Ancient Liberties and Priviledges of this House, that a Serjeant at Armes be sent by Order of this House for the said Mr Fitzherbert at his own Charge, by reason where of he may be brought hither to this House, without peril of further being Arrested by the way, and the state of this Cause to be considered of the examined when he shall be come hither: Which was thereupon well liked and allowed by this House.
John Legg Prisoner at the Bar Servant to the Earl of Northumberland (as he faith) after a good Exhortation given him by Mr Speaker, and the Oath of Supremacy pronounced by him at the Bar, is upon his humble Submission and craving of Pardon set at liberty of his Imprisonment by the Order of this House, paying his Fees. Vide on Saturday March the third foregoing.
The Bill for Confirmation of the Jointure of the Lady Margaret Countess of Cumberland had its third reading; and thereupon it was moved by some, that it might now pass the House, and be sent up also to their Lordships: but others took Exceptions thereat, because the Bill had not been as yet spoken unto. Whereupon because it could not now be committed after the third reading, it was by the Order of the House agreed, that it should be spoken unto to Morrow, and afterwards pass the House, or be dashed as the Case it self should require.
Mr Serjeant Snagg and Mr Serjeant Fleetwood do bring the Lords two Bills; the one Intituled an Act against Counterseiting of Councellors or principal Officers hands; and the other Intituled an Act to confirm the sale of the Lands of Mr Raven Gentleman, made unto Lisle Cave, Thomas Andrewes and Edward Hasterigg Esquires, towards the payment of a Debt due unto her Majesty.
Mr Vice-Chamberlian shewed, that he and the rest of the Committees for Conference with the Lords did attend their Lordships yesterday in the Afternoon at the time and place appointed according to the Commission of this House, and having there received from their Lordships further Advertizement of the imminent great dangers of this Realm and State more than their Lordships had imparted unto them in the last former Conference of this House with their said Lordships before, they did thereupon move their Lordships for their good favour in giving time to this House to consult upon the said dangers and the remedies for the same until to Morrow in the Afternoon. Their Lordships thereupon were so pleased to do; albeit they rather desired the same might have been done sooner. And so reciting at large the particularities of the said Advertizement, and whereof some happened since the last former Conference, Moved this House to grow to some resolution of matter to be prepared ready to be offered unto their Lordships to Morrow in the Afternoon, according unto the promise of himself and the residue of the said Committees of this House unto their Lordships yesterday. It was in the end after sundry Speeches of divers grave Members of this House, tending to divers forms of provision of Treasure, some by way of treble Subsidies and like proportionable Fifteenths and Tenths, and some by other sorts of benevolences, resolved upon the question, that the former Committees of this House for consultation to be had for necessary supply of Treasures to be had for the repelling of the said dangers, should meet in this House in the Afternoon of this present day to confer and consult generally touching the said great dangers, as also touching the remedies, that the same being digested may be reported over unto this House into such form as to the same shall be thought good; to the end that afterwards it may in the Afternoon be imparted unto the Lords accordingly.
Nota, That there is no more of this days Passages found in the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, although there followed divers Speeches upon the foregoing Motion of Sir Thomas Heneage her Majesties Vice-Chamberlain concerning the great business of supply to be given to her Majesty; all which are therefore inserted out of that foresaid Annonymous Journal taken by some Member of the said House during this Parliament, which are there set down (with very little alteration added to them) in manner and from following.
Sir Thomas Cecill speaking next after Sir Thomas Heneage had ended his former Speech, said, that three Subsidies might be set down to be paid in four years, and to be charged upon men of ten pound and upwards to spare them that were under.
Sir Henry Knivet affirmed the poverty of our Country against the reasons used. The principal reason of our poverty he said was because we brought in more Foreign Wares than we vented Commodities, and so by this means our money was carried out of our Country. Alledging it to be like a Pond fed with a Spring, but having a breach through which more passeth than cometh in, so &c.
He made these two Motions; First, that the Queen should be helped by a survey taken of all mens Lands and Goods in England, and so much to be yearly levyed as to serve the Queen to maintain Wars, the proportion being set a hundred thousand pound yearly; And secondly, if this were misliked, every man upon his word and power to deliver what were the profits of his Lands and worth of his goods, and so a proportion to be had accordingly.
Sir Francis Hastings said, The preparations of the Enemies Forces are both ready and great, and intus they conspire; therefore a great Aid must be yielded: And I could wish three Subsidies to belevyed in this matter; in the first of them those to be charged of five pound Lands and five Marks Goods; in the second those of twelve pound Lands and eight pound Goods, and in the third all to be charged as these have been.
Sir Walter Raleigh Answered them that spake of the Poverty of the Land, which they argued by the multitude of Beggars, he gave these reasons: That the broken Companies in Normandy and the Low Countries who returned maimed hither, never went back again to the Towns from whence they came. For a multitude of Clothiers take their Looms into their own hands, spinning their Wooll themselves, and except we would work unto them better cheap than they can make themselves, they will set none on work. This grossing of so many Trades into their own hands, beggereth so many as usually lived by the Trade. He thought it inconvenient to have so many mens livings surveyed: For many are now esteemed richer than they are, and if their Land and Wealth were surveyed, they would be found Beggars, and so their credit which is now their Wealth, would be found nothing worth.
He reported of his own knowledge, that the West Country since the Parliament begun, had taken from them the worth of four hundred and forty thousand pound. They of Newcastle lie still for fear, because Burdeaùx Fleet was taken this year by the Enemy. For the Enemy approaching us, and being our Neighbour as he is gotten to be, our Trades will decay every day, and so our poverty encreaseth every day more and more. And this is most certain, the longer we defer Aid, the less able shall we be to yield Aid; And in the end the greater Aid will be required of us. And so sparing them now we shall charge them when they shall be less able to bear it. For this is most true, one hundred thousand pound would have done the last year that which three will not now do; and three will do this year that which six will not do hereafter. So in conclusion he agreed to three Subsidies; in them the three pound men to be spared, and the summ which came from them to be levied upon those of ten pound and upwards, and the payment to be speedy.
Sir Henry Umpton agreed that there should be three Subsidies granted, according to the old payment; only that a care should be had of assessing it on them that were best able. And his conclusion was, that it might be soon agreed upon, for so it would be more acceptable, because Tardè velle noble instar est.
Sir Edward Stafford thought Subsidies were not so fit a remedy for the dangers we were in, but advised rather, there being ten thousand Parishes in England, that it should be imposed on every Parish to find so many men for the Wars; and the richer Parishes to help the poorer. And the allowance for every man yearly to be twelve pound. After this he moved to have the Parliament Prorogued.
Serjeant Harris moved for three Subsidies, but the ancient custom of payment to be retained; besides, no three pound men to be excused, for then every man will labour by his Friend to be set three pound. And that it was not needful to find men for the Field. For by the Tenures, of which there are three in England, this is provided for. The first Chivalry, that is to do service in the Field; the second Socage, that is to find us victum & vestitum by the Plough; the last Frankal moign, who are to pray for us to God. Now every one by whom fealty is to be done by his Tenure, he is to be forty dayes in the Field with his Lord.
Sir Robert Cecill said, I am glad to see the willingness of the House and readiness to yield Aid; and having a feeling of the necessity requiring it, my desire is, that the Sentence which had had so many Parentheses, might now be brought to a Period, and the Bears Whelp that hath so many times been licked over, might now be made somewhat. For that is always the most Honourable Conclusion, which having received many Contradictions, is in the end concluded. So he desired this matter of Subsidying might be committed to some special Committees in the Afternoon.
Sir John Fortescue thought it liberal to grant three Subsidies, but did assure of his proper knowledge, that three Subsidies would not defray her Majesties Charges, though all other Customs and Revenues were added unto them; And motioned what should be delivered by the House, and what should be delivered to the Lords by the Committees.
Sir Thomas Heneage her Majesties Vice-Chamberlain affirmed, he never saw the House so willing to yield to needful Aids. And that he was one who had now served her Majesty a long time, and knew something her disposition. Wherefore he advised that the wonted course should be followed. For he heard her Majesty speak of it, that the she loved not such fineness of device and novel inventions, but liked rather to have the antient usages offered. It is best so to have it paid as it hath been heretofore. Only a greater discretion to be used in the charging of it. To charge the poor men more deeply he thought it not fit; yet they to be grateful to her Majesty he thought it would be accepted. And that the best able men should offer somewhat to her Majesty of their ability. And for the Order of our Proceedings, he thought it fit that we first agree to three Subsidies, and fix Fifteenths: this to be considered upon by Committees this Afternoon, and to Morrow to be propounded to the House. And then if it were allowed, we might at our going to the Lords tell them what we have agreed upon.
In the Afternoon at the General Committee the Committees met, and it was debated how the Subsidy could be levied in shorter time than heretofore. The poverty of the people and hard Collections of other Subsidies, and the double charge which this would be unto them, with many other reasons were alledged against the Parliaments so speedy Collection. On the other side it was vehemently pressed, that the necessity of the time was such, as it could not carry the accustomed time for payment, her Majesties Purse and Coffers being empty, the danger would be over before the usual payment would come in. Wherefore if the help were not timely, it would be no service. There was much division about this. Some of the Committees would have this propounded, whether the three Subsidies should be paid in four years or three; others diffented from it.
Mr Heale amongst the Committees argued the wealth of the Country to be greater than ever it was, affirming that of his own knowledge from the Mount to London the Country was richer many thousand pounds than heretofore. He also urged the necessity, which being so great, and her Majesty having expended as was said since Eighty eight above ten hundred and thirty four thousand pounds and that only in Normandy, Brittany and in the Low Countries, and upon her Navy and Artillery; besides all her Pensions to Foreign Princes, her Officers Fees, the charges of her Garrison of Barwick, standing her yearly in Seventeen thousand pounds; and all this is besides the Expences in her House. These things being considered, he thought more than Subsidies would be yielded; and if Subsidies only, the richer Men must be the more deeply charged, and the Commission so penned, as the Commissioners may have Authority to force men.
Mr Francis Bacon assented to three Subsidies, but not to the payments under six years. And to this propounded three questions, which he desired might be answered. The first, Impossibility or difficulty; the second Danger or discontentment; and thirdly, a better manner of supply than Subsidy.
For Impossibility; the poor mens Rent is such, as they are not able to yield it, nor to pay so much for the present. The Gentlemen must sell their Plate, and Farmers their Brass Pots, ere this will be paid. And for us we are here to search the wounds of the Realm and not to skin them over; therefore not to perswade our selves of their wealth more than it is.
The dangers are these. We shall first breed discountentment in paying these Subsidies, and in the Cause endanger her Majesty's safety, which must consist more in the love of the people than in their wealth; and therefore not to give them discontentment in paying these Subsidies: thus we run into a double peril. In putting two payments into one, we make a double Subsidy. For it maketh four shillings in the pound a double payment. The second is this, that this being granted in this sort, other Princes hereafter will look for the like; So we shall put an evil precedent upon our selves, and our Posterity. And in Histories it is to be observed, that of all Nations the English are not to be subject, base or Taxable.
Sir Thomas Heneage her Majesties Vice-Chamberlain said, my Opinion shall not prejudice any mans Judgment, but this my answer to the Gentlemans two reasons that spake last, which were difficulty and discontentment. For the first, it is strange to count that impossible which hath been proved, or that difficulty, which hath been used. For discontentment, a people sound in Religion and faithful to the Queen and State, were never found to love their Prince so little, as to be discontented, &c. The necessity of the time is to be considered, and shall be informed unto them, which is such as has not been at any time these sixty years, nor at any time the like was ever heard of; Yea such dangers, as are not to be read that ever the like was intended to any State. Therefore for this extraordinary time some accustomed help must be had; and from these Subsidies do but take away the benefit of time, and then the payments will yield no help to our necessity; for in two years the dangers will be over. So he desired that in this Case Examples might not lead us, but that the present dangers should move us.
Sir Thomas Cecill moved also, that the CinquePorts might be also brought into the Taxes of the Subsidies at this time; for that it hath been the use of men having any Lands in the Cinque-Ports, to take sanctuary there before the Sessing of the Subsidy, by removing themselves, and keeping their Houses there.
Sir Walter Raleigh said, I can see no reason that the suspicion of discontentment should cross the provision for the present danger. The time is now more dangerous than it was in Eighty eight; for then the Spaniard which came from Spain was to pass dangerous Seas, and had no place of retreat or relief if he failed: But now he hath in Brittany great store of Shipping, a Landing place in Scotland, and Men and Horses there as good as we have any. But for the difficulty in getting this Subsidy, I think it seems more difficult by speaking than it would be in gathering.
Now stood up two or three to have spoken, striving who might speak first. Then the Speaker propounds it as an Order in the House in such a Case, for him to ask the parties that would speak, On which side they would speak, whether with him that spake next before, or against him; and the party that speaketh against the last speaker is to be heard first. And so it was ruled. Where it may seem, that the Speaker did give admonishment sitting in the House as a Member thereof, and not sitting in his Chair as Speaker, which he never doth at any Committee although it be of the whole House.
After which some able Member of the House, whose name is not set down, spake next and said, I could very well agree to the Subsidies, if they were not prejudicial to the Subject in other services. For Subsidies be in the valuation of every mans Lands and Goods by Records called the Queens Books, and according to mens valuation of Subsidies, are they at all other charges, as to the Wars and in time of Muster with Horse and Armour; and this charge maketh men so unwilling to be raised in the Subsidy; but if these Subsidies brought in no other charge with them, they would be yielded willingly. But the tail and appendage of it being so great, and higher than the Subsidy it self, is the reason that men are so unwilling to yield it. Wherefore if a greater Tax or Assessment than heretofore be desired, I would wish a Proviso to be added in the Statute, That by this Subsidy no man should be raised as to the defray of other charges above the rate they were put to before.
Sir Francis Godolphin wished the first payment might be at Midsummer, for after that time the Receivors had the benefit of the money. The next to be at Michaelmas, for at that time men would have it in the benefit of their Corn and Commodities. And so in four years and a quarter the Subsidy would be paid with more ease.
Mr Lewes agreed to the Subsidies, and desired that two things might be granted, whereby the Subject should be inriched and the better inabled to pay the Subsidy: That is, that one liberty may be granted, which is transporting of Corn; and the other is for somewhat to be restrained, viz. bringing in of Wines so abundantly; for the vent of our Cloth amounteth not to the sum of our Vintage, & frugem patrem-familias vendacem non emacem est oportet. And thinks it good that the Statutes made heretofore against excess in Apparel might be put in Execution.
Mr George Moore said, I am grieved to see it, and I speak it with grief, how perilous our Estate is, and how dangerous a cause we be in. We are not sick of one Disease but we labour with a plurality of Diseases. To meet therefore with our threefold Diseases we ought like good Physicians to apply a threefold remedy, a treble Subsidy. And as the Physick is lost which is not taken in time, so we must seek to minister the Medicine in good time. And our Disease being a Pleurisie, it is fit we did so. For a skilful Physician though he see in a Pleurisie there is no remedy without letting Blood, yet he will then chuse the time of letting Blood, when the sign is furthest from the heart. Let us let the people Blood, and so prevent the danger.
Mr Heyle said, If we take care for out Posterity, we had best to settle our Posterity, which will not be, except we prevent dangers now imminent. For precedents of Subsidies they are not to be feared, because before-time greater were required than ever since were granted. Therefore this is no Rule, that what we grant now will hereafter be required............................ ........... In the sixth year of King John every one holding by a Knights Fee, was bound to find a Knight in the Wars. And for this present Law, it may be Enacted, that this shall be no precedent for Subsidies hereafter, like as it was in the fourteenth of Edward the Third.
Sir Robert Cecill assented to those that had spoken for the Subsidies, but to them that had spoken to the contrary he said, they speak out of time; And to speak to the particular parts, as that our Poverty is not to be skinned over but throughly healed; that discontentment is to be feared; and lastly, that precedents for hereafter would be avoided. For the first, if we be poor, yet at this time it is to be considered we are in great danger, and of two mischiefs we must chuse the lesser. And therefore I would have this question after so much discussing banished the House.
For Precedents, they have never been perpetual, but begun and ended with the Causes; and as the Causes grew, so grew the Precedent. In her Majesties time it is not to be feared that this Precedent will ever do us harm, for her Majesty will never accept any thing that is given her unwillingly of her Subjects: Nay in the Parliament the twenty seventh of her Reign she refused a benevolence offered her, because she had no need of it, and would not charge her people. This being out of fear, we have no reason to give prejudice to the best Queen or King that ever came, for fear of a worse King than ever was. After her Reign I never had so much as one Idea in my Head what would be our Estate then.
On Thursday the 8th day of March, Mr Speaker shewed unto the House, that according to the appointment of this House he hath attended the Lord Keeper touching his Lordships pleasure for the directing of a new Writ for the chusing of another Burgess for the Borough of Southwark in the County of Surrey, instead of Richard Hutton supposed to have been unduly and undirectly Elected; and also for the allowing of Sir George Carew Knight to be Burgess for the Borough of Camelford in the County of Cornwall, as truly returned Burgess of the said Borough of Camelford to the Sheriff of the said County, in the stead of Richard Leech alledged to have been returned to the said Sheriff by a false Return; And also for changing of the name of John Dudley Esq; returned a Burgess for the Borough of Newtown in the County of Southampton, into the House by the name of Thomas Dudley Esquire, alledged to be the same person in very deed that should have been returned; and that his name was mistaken, and none living known by that name of John Dudley. His Lordships Answer and Resolution in said Burgesses of Southwark and Camelford should stand and continue according to the Returns of the same, without taking notice of any matter of fact therein, or in the Election at all. And that his Lordship would direct a Writ for chusing of another Burgess for the said Borough of Newtown in the stead of the said John Dudley; And that his Lordship would in the said Writ insert the said Cause of misbehaviour so as before alledged.
Four Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill for Confirmation of the assurance unto certain Purchasers of Lands sold by Sir Richard Knightley Knight, Mr Valentine Knightley, and Mr Edward Knightley Esquires, was upon the second reading committed unto Mr Serjeant Telverton, Sir Henry Umpton, Mr Cradock and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
The Bill to take away the benefit of Clergy in some Cases was twice read, and committed unto the former Committees in the last former Bill, and Mr Richard Brown Gentleman was added unto them; who with the rest was appointed to meet at the same time and place, as in the said last former Bill, viz. to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
Two other Bills also had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill for confirmation of the sale of the Lands of William Raven Gentleman made unto Lisle Cave and others, was twice read, and committed unto Mr Heale, Mr Serjeant Telverton, Sir Henry Knivet, Mr Recorder of London and others, who were appointed to meet upon Saturday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Middle-Temple Hall.
Mr Vice-Chamberlain shewed, that he and the residue of the Committees of this House for Conference with the Lords did meet together yesterday in the Afternoon according to the appointment of this House, and that after many Speeches and Arguments gravely delivered by sundry of the said Committees, the greater part of them did assent and agree unto the granting of a triple Subsidy and of six Fifteenths and Tenths, to be yielded to her Majesty towards the provision against the great and imminent perils and dangers of this Realm. The same triple Subsidy and six Fifteenths and Tenths to be levyed and paid in four years in a certain form, which they had set down in Articles, that is to say, one intire Subsidy and two Fifteenths and Tenths at one payment in the first year, and one other intire Subsidy and two Fifteenths and Tenths at one other payment in the second year, and one intire Subsidy and two Fifteenths and Tenths at two payments in the third and fourth years. Which done, he moved further to know the resolution of the House, Whether it would please them to give liking to the said travel of the said Committees in the said Cause; or that it might be their pleasures to resolve of any such other course therein, as they may have Warrant to impart unto the Lords this Afternoon according to the promise of this House to the Lords. Whereupon after many long and grave Speeches and Arguments by divers of the said Members of this House, it was agreed by them all without any contradiction, that the proportion should be a treble Subsidy and six Fifteenths and Tenths. And the said Articles for the manner of payment being read by the Clerk of the House, seemed for the most part to be well liked of. Whereupon after some Motions to the Question, Mr Speaker dividing it into two several parts, the one for the number of the said three intire Subsidies and six Fifteenths and Tenths, and the other for the manner and time of levying and payment of the same three intire Subsidies and six Fifteenths and Tenths, it was upon the same several questions severally resolved by the whole House, the proportion to be a treble Subsidy and six Fifteenths and Tenths, and the manner of paying and levying the same to be made in four years according to the said Articles thereof read.
And then were the said Committees appointed and authorized by this House to signify the said resolution of this House unto their Lordships in the Afternoon of this present day accordingly, and to be reported unto their said Lordships by Sir Robert Cecill, for that Mr Vice-Chamberlain was then at that very instant very sharply grieved and pained with his infirmity of the Gout.
On Friday the 9th day of March the Bill concerning Woollen-Cloths called Vesses, &c. was upon the second reading committed unto Sir William Knolles, Sir John Hart, Mr Recorder of London, Mr Wroth and others, who were appointed to meet upon Tuesday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
Sir John Harrington and Sir Thomas Wilkes are added to the former Committees in the Bill for Confirmation of Assurances unto certain Purchafors of Lands sold by Sir Richard Knightley Kt, Mr Valentine Knightley and Mr Edward Knightley Esquires, appointed yesterday.
The Committees in the Bill also for Naturalizing of Samuel Salting stall and others nominated on Monday the sixth day of this instant March foregoing, are appointed to meet to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Middle-Temple Hall. The Bill concerning Spinners and Weavers was read the first time.
Sir Robert Cecill reporteth at large the Message of this House yesterday by him and the residue of the Committees of this House delivered unto their Lordships, and their Lordships good acceptation of the same. Which done, after sundry other speeches of divers Members of this House, it was resolved upon the Question, that the former Committees of this House for the Subsidy (their names being then read by the Clerk of this House) should meet in this House at two of the Clock in the Afternoon of this present day, for the setting down of Articles for the drawing of the Bill for the granting of the Subsidies and six Fifteenths and Tenths to be paid in four years according to the former resolution of this House therein.
The Bill against springing Uses and Perpetuities was upon the second reading committed unto all the Privy Council being of this House, all the Knights of the Shires returned unto this House, Mr Cradock and others, who were appointed to meet in this House, upon Tuesday, at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
Richard Hutton Gentleman, one of the Burgesses returned for the Borough of Southwark in the County of Surrey, is upon a Motion made by Mr Recorder of London, and also after some Report made by Mr Speaker of the opinion and pleasure of the Lord Keeper in that Case, adjudged upon the question to be a Member of the House; and thereupon the Oath being taken by him before Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer, the said Richard Hutton came into this House, and took his place in the same accordingly.
Sir John Hart, one of the Knights returned for the City of London, putting the House in remembrance once of a Report lately made by some of the Committees of this House touching a Speech lately delivered by some of the Committees of the Lords touching the late Assessment of the late double Subsidy (amongst others) in the City of London, alledging that in London there was none Assessed at above two hundred pounds, and not past four such, nor yet past eight at one hundred pounds, shewed, that the Honorable person that delivered the said Speech to the said Committees of this House had not been rightly informed in that matter. And shewed further, that in very deed at the last Assessment of the Subsidy within the said City of London there were two and thirty persons taxed at two hundred pounds and upwards, whereof some at two hundred and twenty, and some at two hundred and fifty pounds. And one hundred forty and eight persons at one hundred pounds and upward, whereof some at one hundred and ten, some at one hundred and twenty, some at one hundred and forty, some at one hundred and fifty, some at one hundred and sixty, and some at one hundred and eighty pounds. And eighty persons at three hundred pounds, and some at three hundred and fifty pounds, and four persons at four hundred pounds. Besides five hundred forty and four persons at fifty pounds and upwards, whereof some at sixty, some at seventy, some at eighty, and some at ninety pounds.
The Bill concerning the lawful deprivation of Edward Bonner late Bishop of London, was upon the second reading committed unto Mr Hubbert, Mr Heale, Sir Henry Knivet, Mr Wroth and others, who were appointed to meet in this House upon Monday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
On Saturday the 10th day of March, Mr Wroth one of the Committees in the Bill against the stealing of Oxen, Sheep and Lambs, shewed, that he and the residue of the Committees in the same Bill have met together, and added some amendments to the same Bill; and offereth both the Bill and amendments to the House. Which amendments being inserted into the Bill by the Clerk of this House, and the same amendments then also twice read, the Bill upon the question was ordered to be Ingrossed.
The Bill for relief of Jurors upon Tryals between party and party was upon the second reading committed unto Mr Tasborough, Mr Recorder of London, Mr Wroth and others, and the Bill was delivered to Mr Tasborough, who with the rest was appointed to meet this day at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the MiddleTemple Hall.
Three Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill for Confirmation of Letters Patents unto the Mayor, Sheriff, Citizens and Commonalty of the City of Lincoln, was upon the second reading committed unto Sir Francis Hastings, Mr Recorder of London and others, who were appointed to meet upon Monday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer-Chamber.
Mr. Chancellour of the Exchequer reporteth the travel of himself and the residue of the Committees for setting down of Articles for the Subsidy, and shewed, that they have drawn the said Articles, and offereth the same to the house to be read. Which being then read by the Clerk of the House, and in some part thereof reformed by the assent of the whole House, (to wit in that Article which concerned the priviledge of the Cinque-Ports, and that Article also which concerned such persons as in regard of having several habitations should be Assessed in the said Subsidies in several places) upon the doubtfulness of the voices to the question twice propounded, Whether the strangers resident in the Cinque-Ports shall be charged with the payment of the said Subsidies or not, it was upon the division of the House adjudged, that they shall not be charged with the said payments, by the difference of thirty persons, viz. with the Yea a hundred and eighteen, and with the No a hundred forty eight, in all two hundred sixty six.
And afterwards it was Ordered, that the said Articles should be delivered to the former Committees for the Preamble to prepare the same: And also the said Rates according to the Said Articles to be set down in the Bill.
Nota, That after this business touching the Cinque-Ports there followeth a Motion made by Mr Wroth touching some Members of the House who had been Imprisoned in the beginning of this Parliament, of which see on Sunday the 25th day of February foregoing, which remaineth very legible in the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, although it be crossed out. The reason of which said crossing out is very hard to conjecture, in regard that the said Motion was doubtless made this Morning, as doth plainly appear also by the often before-cited Anonymous Journal more particularly mentioned at the beginning of this present Journal, out of which it is supplied in manner and form following.
Mr Wroth made a Motion, that in respect that some Countries might complain of the Tax of these many Subsidies, their Knights and Burgesses never consenting unto them nor being present at the grant: And because an Instrument, taking away some of its strings, cannot give its pleasant sound: Therefore desired that we might be humble and earnest Suitors to her Majesty, that she would be pleased to set at liberty those Members of the House that were restrained.
To this was Answered by all the Privy Councellors, that her Majesty had Committed them for Causes best known to her self, and for us to press her Majesty with this Suit, we should but hinder them whose good we seek. And it is not to be doubted but her Majesty of her gracious disposition will shortly of her self yield to them that which we would ask for them, and it will like her better to have it left unto her self than sought by us.
Three Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the last being against Counterfeiting of Councellors or Principal Officers hands was upon the second reading committed unto Sir John Wolley, Sir Walter Raleigh, Mr George Moore and others, who were appointed to meet upon Tuesday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Middle-Temple Hall.
It should seem by these two words, viz. Non sol. set in the Margent over against the names of these two last mentioned Members of the House, that the said Members did not leave any money with the Serjeant of the House to be distributed amongst the poor, at their departure. Which I conceive is here noted, because two others that departed at this time also into the Country upon like occasions, did either of them leave money with the said Serjeant to be so distributed, as now immediately followeth.
Giles Hutchins Gent' returned a Citizen into this present Parliament for the City of New Sar. is licensed by Mr. Speaker to depart upon his necessary occasion by reason of the extream Sickness of Mr. William Blaker; and the said Mr. Hutchins left with the Serjeant of this House two shillings and four pence to be distributed amongst the poor.
John Cotten Esquire, one of the Knights returned into this present Parliament for the County of Cambridge, is in respect of the present Sickness of Sir John Cotten Knight, Father of the said John Cotten Esquire, licensed to depart into his Country for this time. And the said Mr. Cotten left with the said Serjeant twelve pence to be given to the poor.
On Monday the 12th day of March, Mr. Lewes, one of the Committees in the Bill concerning salted Fish and salted Herrings shewed, that he and the residue of the Committees have taken pains in consideration of the said Bill, and have added a Proviso to the said Bill, and prayeth the twice reading of the same Proviso, and that then the same Proviso and Bill may be Ordered to be ingrossed. Whereupon the same Proviso being twice read, the said Bill and Proviso after some Speeches both against and with them, were upon the question referred to the former Committees, who were appointed on Monday the 5th day of this instant March foregoing, to be considered of in the Afternoon of this present day in the Exchequer Chamber.
The Bills committed for confirmation of Letters Patents to the Mayors, Sheriffs, Citizens and Commonalty of Lincoln, and concerning the lawful deprivation of Edward Bonner late Bishop of London, are delivered to Sir Edward Dymock one of the Committees in the same.
But what those alterations were upon which the old Bill was rejected and a new Bill framed, are not set down in the Original Journal-Book it self; and there fore because it is a matter of no small consequence, and may also be of some use, I have inserted the particulars thereof out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal, more particularly mentioned at the beginning of this present Journal, which are there set down in manner and form following.
7. Item, A Recusant shall forfeit for keeping any such Recusant Person in his House either Servant or Stranger ten pound every Month, being at one time so long in his House, or at several times in the year.
9. Item, He shall have his Children taken from him if they be above the Age of seven years, which are to be disposed of by the Lords of the Council, or the Ordinary, or the Judges of Assizes for the time being, and their maintenance to be raised out of a third part of such a Recusants Living.
13. Item, If any person having been a Recusant shall at any time recant, he shall make his submission in the Parish Church where he dwelleth, acknowledging the Queens Proceedings to be just, and detesting the Church of Rome: which he shall also do in open Court before the Judges of Assize.
Lastly, There is a Proviso, that those that have already bought Lands of any that are or shall be Indicted for a Recusant, the Bargain shall be as good and stand in effect, as if this had never been made.
2 Eliz. of Lands where of he taketh the profits, or which Conveyance is upon any trust and confidence, to be void as to the Queen, as for two parts of the profits to be answered her; and so all Sales hereafter to be made by any Recusant Convicted, the Sale being bonâ fide, &c.
The ninth, Children being ten years old, until they be sixteen years, to be disposed of at the appointment of four Privy-Councellors, the Justices of Assize, the Bishop of the Diocefs, Justices of Peace. If the third part of the Lands suffice not for maintenance, the rest to be levyed of the Parents goods.
Thus far out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal, the rest of the Passages of this day follow out of the Original Journal-Book it self, amongst which is Entred the first reading of the aforesaid new Bill touching Recusants brought in this Morning by the said Committees in these words, viz.
Mr. Richard Lewkenor, one of the Committees in the Bill for confirmation of the Lands of William Raven made unto Lisle Cave, Thomas Andrews and Edward Haselrigg Esquires, shewing, that he and the residue of the Committees in the same Bill did meet together upon Saturday last in the Afternoon, and have upon their said Conference therein thought good to add certain words to the same Bill, viz. in the second line of the Proviso after the word [Conveyance] to add this word [Judgment] and in the same line after this word [made] to add these words [or had] and in the same line also after the word [by] to add these words [or against]; It was thereupon Ordered by this House upon the question, that the said words should be so added accordingly. And thereupon also were the same added words twice read for the two readings of the same.
The Bill for the better assurance and confirmation of the Jointure of the Lady Margaret Countess of Cumberland, after some Speeches had towards the furtherance of passing the said Bill, is passed upon the Question.
The Bill concerning the Exemplifications of Fines and Recoveries was upon the second reading committed unto all the Serjeants at Law being Members of this House, Mr. Francis Bacon, Sir Edward Dymock and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
Sir Robert Cecill moved for some course of necessary relief to be had and devised, for the great number of poor people pressing every where in the streets to beg: And dividing them into three parts and sorts, all of them, he said, in Christian Charity ought to be relieved though in sundry degrees, forting the maimed and lame Souldiers for the first and best kind of those people and meetest to be relieved; The poor Aged and Diseased honest people are in Charity to be holpen for the second; And the stout, idle Rogues for the last and worst fit to be punished and set to work.
It was thereupon moved by Master Sands, for consideration also in that behalf to be had, that the Statutes already in force for relief of the poor and punishment of the Rogues might be perused by a Committee of this House. Whereupon it was Ordered by the House upon the Question, That all the Privy-Council being Members of this House, Sir George Carew, all the Serjeants at Law, Mr. Francis Bacon, Mr. Nathanael Bacon, Mr. Edward Dier, Sir Thomas Ingram, Sir Thomas Baskervile, Mr. Recorder of London, Mr Skinner, Mr Andrew Palmer, Mr. Wroth, Sir William Moore, Mr. George Moore, Sir William Bruncker, Sir Thomas Shirley, Sir Moyle Finch, Mr. Henry Finch, Sir Edward Dymock, Sir Francis Drake, Mr. Edgecombe, Mr. Thomas Fane, Sir Walter Covert, Sir Walter Raleigh, Mr. Auton, Mr. Nicholas Sanders, Sir Francis Vere, Mr. Sands, Mr. Chuite, Mr. Hackford, Sir John Points, Sir Henry Cocke, Sir Edward Hobby, Mr. Charles Dymock, Sir Robert Sidney, Mr. Arthur George, Sir Anthony Cope, Sir John Wingfield, Sir Henry Knivet, Sir Ferdinando George, Sir William Read, Sir Coniard Clifford, Sir Humphrey Foster, Sir Edward Stafford, Sir Robert Sackvile, Sir Henry Poole, Mr. John Thynne, Sir Thomas Dennyes, Sir William Bevile, Mr. Lawrence Stoughton, Mr. Edward Lewkenor, Sir John Harrington, Mr. Warren, Sir Francis Hastings, Mr. Boyes, Mr. Amersham, Mr. Perriam, Sir Thomas West, Mr. George Wray, Sir Thomas Read, Mr. Richard Lewkenor and Mr. Horsey should meet to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber, to confer about the said matters so moved; and also to conser touching the continuation of such other Laws and Statutes as are fit to be considered of in this present Sessions to be further continued.
Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer brought in a Preamble agreed by the more part of the Committees to be set down in the Bill for the Subsidies, if this House shall like of it; which Preamble being read by the Clerk of this House, the same was after some Speeches had committed upon the Question unto Mr. Vice-Chamberlain, Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Broughton, Mr. Brown and others, to be presently further considered of in the Committee Chamber of this House.
Mr. Attorney General and Mr. Doctor Ford do bring from the Lords a Bill concerning the Lands of Henry late Lord of Burgavenny deceased, with a Message also from their Lordships, to desire that a Committee of selected Members of this House may be appointed to have Conference with a Committee of the Lords touching the continuance of Statutes; It was resolved by the House to assent unto such a Committee accordingly, and that assent was also delivered in Answer to the said Mr. Attorney and Mr. Doctor Ford, and offer to be ready to attend their Lordships therein at such time and place as their Lordships shall please to signifie unto this House and appoint for that purpose.
After which Mr. Attorney General and Mr. Doctor Ford do bring word from the Lords, that their Lordships have nominated sixteen of themselves to confer with a convenient number of this House touching the said consideration for continuance of Statutes, and have appointed the time to be on Thursday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber next the Upper House of Parliament, if the House shall so think good. Which being shewed to the House by Mr. Speaker, it was Ordered by this House, that the former Committees of this House, yesterday selected for that purpose, should attend their Lordships to Morrow at the said time and place. Which was afterwards so fignified over by Mr. Speaker unto the said Mr. Attorney General and Mr. Doctor Ford accordingly.
The said Preamble in the Bill of Subsidy being brought in again amended by the said Committees and read to the House by the Clerk, was agreed on by the whole House and appointed to be delivered to her Majesties Learned Councel, for the more speedy drawing of the Bill.
Nota, That this Bill touching the Subsidy after many days agitation did at length very difficultly pass the House by reason of the greatness thereof, on Thursday the twenty second of this instant March ensuing, this present day being the first in which the very Preamble was brought into the House and agreed upon, for which many in the House desired a longer time for it to be considered of by a Committee, and not to have been so suddenly assented to, as is noted in the foresaid Anonymous Journal more particularly mentioned at the beginning of this present Journal: But that the Speaker perceiving the Privy Counsellors of the House desirous to have the Bill expedited, did over-reach the House in the subtile putting of the Question; by which means it had been only considered of in the CommitteeChamber by those eighteen Members of the House appointed in the beginning of this Forenoon, and by them brought back again into the House, before the ending thereof, and so was agreed on by the said House as is aforesaid.
Nota, That the Bill against Recusants, which had been newly brought in by the Committees on Monday the 12th day of this instant March immediately foregoing, and the old Bill rejected, and had in the beginning of this Forenoon been read the second time, was now in the end of the same spoken unto by divers Members of the House. Which speeches containing in them matter of good consequence are wholly omitted in the Original Journal-Book it self, and are therefore supplied out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal more particularly mentioned in the beginning of this present Journal, in manner and form following.
Mr Sands spake to the Bill for Recusants, that it might be as it went first for Recusants generally, and not restrained to Popish Recusants only: So that under this Bill there might be included Brownists and Barrowists.
Mr Speaker said, that the Preamble of this Bill being conferred with the body of this Bill, other Recusants than Popish Recusants could not be comprized therein. For the Title of the Bill and the Preamble run only in this manner, Against such as are enemies opposed to our State, and adherents to the Pope. So another Bill might be framed against those persons, but these cannot be comprized therein.
Mr Dalton would have Recusants that be Brownists comprized in the Bill as well as Popish Recusants, and to that end would have the Preamble altered, and be to repress disloyal Subjects and to impose upon them more due obedience; and so to go directly to the Act, Be it Enacted, leaving out all the Preamble; for he cited some Bills overthrown, as he said, only by reason of superfluous words in the Preamble.
Doctor Lewin made a long Speech. His end was only to have the Brownists and Barrowists as well provided against as Papists; but whether in this Bill or in some other, he left that to the Wisdom of the House.
On Wednesday the 14th day of March Sir Edward Hobby, one of the Committees in the Bill touching Mr Read Stafford, brought, in the Bill with some amendments, and opening the effects of the said Amendments to the House, the same Amendments then also being read by the Clerk, It was Ordered by this House, that the same Amendments should be inserted accordingly into the same Bill.
Mr Richard Lewkenor, one of the Committees in the Bill concerning the lawful deprivation of Edward Bonner late Bishop of London, brought in the Bill with some Amendments, and opening the Contents of the same Amendments to the House, the same Amendments also being then read to the House by the Clerk, it was Ordered by this House that the same Amendments should be inserted in the said Bill accordingly.
Mr John Hare, one of the Committees in the Bill concerning Mr Valentine Knightley brought in the Bill with some Amendments, and opening the Contents of the said Amendments to the House, the same Amendments being then also read to the House by the Clerk, It was Ordered by this House that the same Amendments should be also inserted into the said Bill accordingly.
The Bill for reducing of her Majesties Subjects to their due obedience committed Yesterday to the former Committees who were appointed on Wednesday the 28th day of February (last past) was this day delivered to Mr Treasurer one of the Committees.
Mr Lewes one of the Committees in the Bill touching salted Fish and salted Herrings, brought in the Bill with some amendments, and shewing the Contents of the said Amendments, and the same being read by the Clerk of the House, it was Ordered by this House, that the said Amendments should be inserted in the said Bill accordingly.
Mr Serjeant Yelverton one of the Committees in the Bill concerning the Exemplifications of Fines and Recoveries, brought in the Bill with some Amendments, which Amendments being twice read, the Bill after many Speeches both with and against the same Bill was dasht upon the question for ingrossing.
Three Bills also had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill touching the over-lengths of broad Cloth, was upon the second reading committed unto Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Burgesses of Worcester and Coventry, the Knights and Citizens of Yorkshire and the City of York, and others, who were appointed to meet upon Friday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in this House.
Richard Goodwin, returned one of the Citizens for the City of Wells in the County of Somerset, is for his better recovery of health, licenced by Mr. Speaker to depart home into his Country; and the said Mr. Goodwyn left two shillings and six pence with the Serjeant of the House to be distributed amongst the Poor.
On Thursday the 15th day of March, Sir Edward Dymock, one of the Committees in the Bill for Confirmation of Letters Patents to the Mayor, Sheriff, Citizens and Commonalty of the City of Lincoln, (appointed on Saturday the 10th day of this instant March foregoing) brought in the Bill with some Amendments, and opening the Contents of the same Amendments, the said Amendments were afterwards read by the Clerk, and then upon the question agreed by the House to be inserted in the said Bill accordingly.
Two Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill touching Execution of Process, was upon the second reading committed unto Mr Lewes, Sir Edward Dimock, the Recorder and Citizens of York, Mr Recorder of London and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in this House.
The Amendments in the Bill for confirmation of assurances of certain Lands and Tenements from Richard Knightley, Valentine Knightley and Edward Knightley Esquires, unto Charles Hales Esquire, Thomas Bricket and John Lamberd Gent. being twice read, the Bill was upon the question Ordered to be ingrossed.
Mr Serjeant Harris, one of the Committees in the Bill for the Naturalizing of Samuel Saltingstall and others, appointed on Monday the fifth day of this instant March foregoing, brought in the Bill with some Additions, which being first read to the House, were by the Order of the House agreed to be inserted into the Bill, and then afterwards the same Additions being twice read, the said Bill was Ordered to be ingrossed.
Mr Wroth, one of the committees in the Bill for the true assizing of Bread (appointed on Monday the 5th day of this instant March foregoing) shewed the meeting and travel of the said Committees at sundry times about the said Bill, and that they thought good to make a new Bill for that matter. And so delivered in both the old Bill and also the new Bill.
The Bill for restraining Popish Recusants to some certain places of aboad, was read the second time, and committed to the former Committees (which said Committees were appointed on Wednesday the 28th day of February last past) to meet to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in this House, and the Bill was delivered to Mr Treasurer.
Mr Winch, one of the Committees in the Bill for the relief of Jurors upon Tryals between party and party, appointed on Saturday the 10th day of this instant March foregoing, shewed, That the Committees have met and conferred on the said Bill, and did think good to make a new Bill. And so delivered in both the old Bill, and also the new Bill.
To Morrow in the Afternoon is appointed to have Conference and meeting touching provision to be treated of for relief of poor Souldiers. The Committee for which business was appointed on Monday the 12th day of this instant March foregoing.
The Bill concerning the breadth of Plunkets, Azures and Blues, was upon the second reading committed unto the Burgesses of Reading, the Knights for Yorkshire, the Knights and Burgesses for Somerset, Wilts and Gloucester, Mr Conisby and others, who were appointed to meet upon Saturday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
Mr Serjeant Harris and Mr. Dalton are added to the Committees in the Bill against Retaylors, &c. (appointed on Tuesday the 6th day of this instant March foregoing) to meet at the same time and place with the Committees in the Bill concerning Plunkets, Azures, &c.
On Friday the 16th day of March, the Bill for Mr. Anthony Cook was upon the second reading committed unto Mr. Wroth, Mr. Dalton, Mr. Francis Bacon, and others; who were appointed to meet this day in the Afternoon at two of the Clock in the Exchequer Chamber; and the Bill was delivered to Sir Francis Hastings one of the Committees.
Four Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill for speedy punishment of Felonies called Petite Larceny, was upon the second reading committed unto Sir William Moore, Mr. Hubbard, Mr. Sands and others; and the Bill was delivered to Mr. Hubbard, who with the rest were appointed to meet upon Tuesday next in the Afternoon at two of the Clock in the Exchequer Chamber.
Mr. Thomas Posthumus Hobby is Ordered by this House to move Sir Edward Hobby Brother of the said Thomas, that the Bills in his Custody touching springing uses and perpetuities, and touching the Execution of Process, and against Recusants, may be brought into this House to Morrow sitting the Court.
The Bill concerning Mr. Ognall was upon the second reading committed unto Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Sir John Wolley, Mr. Wroth and others, who were appointed to meet upon Tuesday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
The Bill for granting of three intire Subsidies and six Fifteenths and Tenths granted to the Queens Majesty had its first reading. Vide more concerning this Bill on Thursday the 22th day of this instant March next ensuing.
On Saturday the 17th day of March, Mr. Richard Toptliffe and Mr. William Basset Esquires, Sheriffs of the County of Darby, and Mr. Moore being of Councel with Mr. Basset were heard at large at the Bar of this House touching the Case of Thomas Fitzherbert Esquire, returned a Member into this House, and now Prisoner in the Custody and Charge of the said Sheriffs; and after long hearing of the said Parties, it was in the end resolved by this House, that this House being a Court of Record would take no notice of any matter of fact at all in the said Case, but only of matter of Record. And that Mr Speaker on the behalf of this House shall move the Lord Keeper of the Great Seal of England for return to be made by the said Sheriff into the Chancery of the Writ of habeas corpus cum causa, in that Case lately awarded by his Lordship unto the said Sheriff, upon Motion to his Lordship from this House in that behalf, according to the purport of the same Writ, which being not done with such due Expedition as it ought, (the same being indilatè) his Lordship will then at the request of this House assess a good round Fine upon the said Sheriff for the same his Contempt. Vide concerning this matter on Thursday the first day, and on Friday the second day of this instant March foregoing; as also on March 30th Friday, Apr. 3d Tuesday, and Apr. 5. Thursday postea.
Mr Thomas Posthumus Hobby shewed, that according to the appointment of this House he hath moved his Brother Sir Edward Hobby for the two Bills which were in his hands, viz. the Bill for Perpetuities and the Bill touching the Execution of Process, &c. And that the said Sir Edward Hobby saith, he is a Committee amongst others in both the same Bills by appointment of this House, and that the same Bills were in that respect delivered to him by the Clerk of this House: And that albeit he thinketh it reasonable he should be acquainted with the proceedings in the said Bills in the Committee, as one of the same Committees; yet in regard of the dutiful good will he beareth to the Members of this House, and loth to offend any of the same, he delivered the said Bills to the said Mr. Posthumus Hobby to be brought into this House accordingly. And so the said Mr Thomas Posthumus Hobby delivered the said Bills.
Three Bills had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill to confirm the sale of certain Lands and Tenements made by Sir Richard Knightley Knight, Valentine Knightley and Edward Knightley Esquires, unto Charles Hales Esquire, Thomas Bruncket and John Lambert Gent. and others, was read the third time and passed upon the question.
The Serjeant of the House received of Mr Miles Sands six shillings, and of Mr Lewes two shillings to be given amongst the poor. Which it should seem they left with the said Serjeant upon Licence given them by Mr Speaker to depart into the Country upon some necessary Occasions.
Mr Finch, one of the Committees in the two Bills touching Popish Recusants, bringeth in both the same Bills with some Amendments; which said Amendments being opened by him unto the House, and afterwards read by the Clerk of the said House, the same Amendments were Ordered by the House to be put into the same Bills accordingly.
Sir Francis Hastings, one of the Committees in the Bill concerning the breadth of Plunkets, Azures, Blues and other Coloured Cloaths, &c. appointed on Friday the 16th day of this instant March foregoing shewed, that he and the residue of the Committees in the same Bill have met together, and thought good to make some Addition to the said Bill; and opening the contents thereof to the House, and afterwards praying the same to be read, it was after the reading Ordered to be inserted into the said Bill.
Mr. Speaker shewed unto the House, that according to their late direction he hath moved the Lord Keeper for the speedy bringing up of one Mr. Tho. Fitzherbert, and also for a Fine to be assessed by his Lordship upon Mr. Basset the Sheriff of Darbyshire, according to the request of this House for his contempt in not returning the Body and Cause of Mr. Fitzherbet heretofore according to the Writ: all which Mr. Speaker said, his Lordship would willingly do. Vide concerning this matter on Thursday the first day, Friday the second day, and on Saturday the seventeenth day of this instant March foregoing.
The Bill concerning the lawful Deprivation of Edward Bonner late Bishop of London had its third reading, and after sundry Speeches some words were added to the end of the Bill, and a Proviso also after those words so added were likewise read, and presently inserted into the said Bill, and three times read. The said Bill in such sort amended was passed upon the Question.
Mr. Vice-Chamberlain one of the Committees touching the relief of the poor (appointed on Monday the 12th day of this instant March foregoing) and for continuance of Statutes, moved that for some present relief for poor Maimed and sick Souldiers, a Collection might be had amongst the Members of this House, at the rate of thirty shillings a piece for every one of this House being of her Majesties Privy-Council, ten shillings a piece for every one returned a Knight for any Shire into this Parliament, and every other being a Knight in Degree, though returned but as a Burgess; and every other of meaner degree that is returned for a Burgess at five shillings a piece: And that all such as are departed without Licence pay double after the said rates. Which was immediately upon the Question assented unto by the whole House accordingly.
Sir Robert Cecill, one other of the same Committees, liking well of the said course taken upon the said Motion made by the said Mr. ViceChamberlain, moved further for some future continual contribution of relief for maimed sick Souldiers and Mariners, and offered a Plot in Articles for a Bill to be framed to that purpose, and prayeth the reading of the said Articles. Which being thereupon read by the Clerk accordingly and well liked of by the House, the said Articles were by Order of the House referred to the said former Committees, (whose names see before on Monday the 12th day of this instant March foregoing) to draw a Bill thereupon to that purpose accordingly.
Mr. Francis Bacon, one other of the said Committees, very well liking and much commending the said endeavours and Reports of the said Mr. Vice-Chamberlain and Sir Robert Cecill, maketh a Report at large of the Conference of the Committees of this House had with the Committees of the Lords concerning the continuance of Statutes, to about the number of twenty five or twenty six he said. And so entring into the particularities thereof, in sundry degrees, whereof some were doubtful and some disputable; amongst the said Committees on both sides it was thought fit for this time it should be left to further Conference amongst the said Committees accordingly.
Mr Calfeild, Mr Lewkenor, Sir Humphrey Foster, Mr. Valentine Knightley, Mr. Finch, Mr. Reynold, Mr. Fulk Grevill and Mr. Broughton were added to the Committees for George Ognell appointed on Friday the 16th day of this instant March foregoing.
The Bill for granting of three intire Subsidies and six Fifteenths and Tenths to her Majesty was read the second time, and the Proviso for the five Ports was then altered, and also twice read. The said Bill upon the question was Ordered to be ingrossed.
Nicholas Curwen and Wilford Rawson Esquires, returned into this present Parliament Knights for the County of Cumberland, are for their necessary Service in the affairs of her Majesty licensed to depart.
On Tuesday the 20th day of March. Three Bills had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill touching the Sale of the Gray-Fryers in the Town of Cambridge was twice read and Ordered to be ingrossed. By vertue of which said Bill, upon the Sale of the said Friery, the Colledge now called Sidney Sussex Colledge was built in the said University.
Mr. Cradock, one of the Committees in the Bill for the better Execution of the Process and against Recusants, (committed on Thursday the 15th day of this instant March foregoing) shewed, that he and the residue of the Committees have met together, and upon good considerations have thought good to amend sundry things in the said Bill. And opening unto the House the effects of some Amendments, the same Amendments being thereupon read to the House, it was Ordered upon the question that they should be inserted into the said Bill accordingly.
Sir John Wolley, one of the Committees in the Bill against counterfeiting of Councellors and principal Officers hands, (appointed on Saturday the 10th day of this instant March foregoing) shewed, that he and the residue of the Committees have met together, and upon the end of their Travel therein do all of them think it a very dangerous Bill, and not fit in their opinions to pass this House. And did further think good to leave the same to the good consideration of this House. And because it is a Bill which came from the Lords, they thought good with the said report first made to deliver the said Bill again into this House, and so there to leave it in such sort as it is and not otherwise.
The Bill concerning the Lands late of Henry late Lord Burgavenny was upon the second reading committed unto Mr Thomas Fane, Sir Henry Knivett, Mr Recorder of London and others. And the Bill was delivered to Sir William Haward, one of the said Committees, who with the rest was appointed to meet to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
It is Ordered, that touching the Bill against Alien Strangers selling by way of Retail, whereof report was now made by Mr Recorder of London, one of the Committees in the same Bill, of that which was done yesterday by such of the Committees as then did meet, or at the least by the more part of them, viz. by five, there being in very deed but nine in all, both parts should be heard to Morrow in this House with their Council.
Mr Serjeant Owen and Mr Powle did bring word from the Lords, that their Lordships defire Conference with the Committees of this House upon Thursday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Chamber next the Upper House, touching the Continuance of Statutes and relief of poor maimed Souldiers, if this House shall so like. Which Message being opened to the House by Mr Speaker, it was Ordered by this whole House, that the former Committees of this House (whose names see before on Monday the 12th day of this instant March foregoing) should attend their Lordships at the said time and place accordingly. Which resolution of this House was also thereupon signified from this House to their Lordships by the said Mr Serjeant Owen and Mr Powle.
The Bill for the better expedition of Justice in the Court of Star-Chamber was read the second time. After the reading of which Bill Mr Francis Bacon stood up and and spake very earnestly against it, by means whereof, as it should afterwards seem, the Bill was Dashed. Which said Speech containing divers matters of good moment in it, although it be omitted in the Original Journal-Book it self, yet I have thought good to supply it out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal more particularly mentioned at the beginning of this present Journal, being in manner and form following.
Mr Francis Bacon after silence made, spake as followeth: Neither Profit nor Peril shall move me to speak against my Consciene in this place. Yet because I am a party interessed in this Office which the Bill aims at, so may I seem to speak with feeling; my self also not thinking it fit, that being here a Judge, I should speak also as a party: yet I beseech you as the manner is in places Judicial, if the Judge be a party, though he sit not there as Judge, yet may be defend and speak at the Bar as a party in his own Case. So I beseech you, because I may hap to yield reason to the satisfying of any that yet may stand for the Bill, let me be heard to speak at the Bar. And then he offered to go to the Bar, but the House in favour would needs have him speak in the place where he sat. First there is cunning shewed in the Bill, and for that my Lord Keeper might be affected, it seems to give him the bestowing of the Clerks places. Secondly, to insinuate with practising Lawyers, it gives them a Fee; For no Interrogatories should be administred whereto their hand was not under. Thirdly, it offered also some kindness to me, for it gave a present Forfeiture of the Office upon sundry defaults. Fifthly, to the subject in general it pretended a very great relief. So that it carried a plausible show, but indeed the Bill was in it self prejudicial to her Majesty, inconvenient to the Judges of that Court, and burthensome to the Subject. Prejudicial to her Majesty, for it makes a diminution of her Inheritance; Inconvenient, for the Clerks place hath always been in her Gift, and this Bill would carry it to the Lord Keeper, who never before had it.
It is an Indignity offered unto the Court, for that the Clerk must be Ordered by an Act of Parliament, as if their wisdom and Care were not sufficent to relieve any abuses they should find in their Officers to the grief of the Subject.
Great Injury is offered to the parties interessed; for first, an Office which is incident unto the Clerk is given from him, he shall not have the appointing of his own Examiner. And again the Ancient Fee hath always been twelve pence the sheet, and as much in other Courts; therefore this is not tolerable. And considering the place of his Attendance, his place is in the highest Court, wherefore in reason his Fee is to have proportion with his Attendance.
Now where relief and Ease were pretended to the Subjects, no such thing will come by the Bill, but rather a greater Charge; for it gives a Fee for Judicial Acts, as for making Reports, for which no such Fee is due. It appoints that a Councellors hand must be to all Interrogatories; so their Clyents must pay a Fee more than usually. Also whereas he used upon Commission (the parties talking with their Deponents) to have Cause presently to draw Interrogatories they thought not ...... before; now they cannot minister any such Interrogatories; nay to every Commission sitting they must bring their Councel, which will be an exceeding great charge.
Besides, the Commissioners are bound under a pain not to accept Interrogatories that are not signed under a Councellors hand; so the Commissioners must take notice at their peril who be Councellors admitted to the parties, who not. These with many other reasons.
There was much division thereupon. Wherefore the Speaker propounded the question, that as many as will not have the Bill rejected say I, and the other to say No. The voice was so indifferent that it could not be discerned which were greater. Then the question grew whether part should go out, those that said I, or those that said No,
Mr Speaker said, the Order of the House is, that the I being for the Bill must go out, and the No against the Bill doth always sit. The reason is, that the Inventor that will have a new Law, is to go out and bring it in; and they that are for the Law in possession must keep the House, for they sit to continue it.
Mr Attorney General and Mr Doctor Stanhop do bring from the Lords a Bill Intituled An Act for Explanation and Confirmation of her Majesties Title to the Lands and Tenements late of Sir Francis Englefield Knight, Attainted of High Treason.
On Wednesday the 21th day of March, Three Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill for the maintenance of the Haven in the Town of Colchester, and for the paving of the same Town, had its first reading.
The Councel on both sides were this day heard at large in this House in the Bill against Aliens selling by way of retail any Foreign Commodities, and afterwards sequestred. Which done, the Amendments intended by the Committees in the said Bill were read unto the House, and after the reading Ordered upon the question to be inserted into the same Bill accordingly. After which there followed divers long Speeches and Arguments on both sides both with the Bill and against the Bill, which said Speeches being omitted in the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, are in respect of the great weight of this matter touching Aliens now controverted; supplied out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal (more particularly mentioned at the beginning of this present Journal) in manner and form following, viz.
Mr Francis Moore (of the Middle-Temple) being as it should seem at the Bar, of Councel with the City of London, and in their behalf to speak for the making of a new Law, by the Order of the House spake first, and did at large set forth the inconveniencies that grew to our Nation and Tradesmen by suffering Tradesmen to retail. First because that Strangers Wares are better than ours, which causeth that our Retaylors have no sale of their Wares. They sell cheaper, though their Wares be as good as ours. And this is by reason they have Factors beyond the Seas that are their Friends and Kinsfolks, and so they save that Charge. A thing to be noted. And wheresoever they are, our own native Retaylors are Beggars. They receive Gentlemen and Yeomens Sons to be their Apprentices, themselves being Retaylors, and this is no Trade afterwards for them to live on; So many Beggars be made consuming their time under them. Their retailing Beggering our Retaylors makes a diminution of the Queens Subsidies. Their riches and multitude makes our Estate poorer and weaker, for they stick upon our wealth, and carry it into Foreign Countries.
In the Statute Richard 3. Cap. 9. there appeareth the like Complaint that now is, which being then made unto the King was then remedied, as appeareth by the Statute. And for the Objections made, First that it were against Charity, that Strangers fleeing hither for Religion and relief should be restrained from the means of getting their livings; Secondly, that their retailing lesseneth the prices of our Wares, and encreaseth the number of Buyers; and Thirdly, that it were violating of their priviledge, if we have them by their diminution. The priviledge of St Martins hath always been allowed, and now not to be denied. To Answer to these in Order.
First, Charity must be mixt with Policy; for to give of Charity to our own Beggering, were but Prodigality; and such Charity we use; for we allow them all Trades that they have been brought up in; but retailing is a thing that they were never brought up unto in their own Countries, so no reason to allow it them here.
Their priviledge of Denization is not to be allowed above the priviledge of Birth, and our Natives are not allowed to Retail and Merchandize as they do. And it may appear by a former Statute, that not withstanding their Denization they have been bound under the Statute 34 H. 8.
And though the Stranger Merchants pay double Subsidies, yet Strangers Retaylors do not, but are taxed by the place, and that under value, because their goods and wealth is secret: but barr retailing, and they will all of them be Merchants, and so the Subsidy shall be doubled.
St Martins was first allowed for a Sanctuary, and for that Cause had his priviledge, and not to be so ill a Neighbour to the City as to rob it as it doth; and by former Statutes St. Martins hath been barred, as by the Statute 21 H. 8. appeareth, only the Statute of 14 H. 8. exempted it.
Mr Proud of Lincolns-Inn (being as it should seem at the Bar, of Councel with the Strangers, and in their behalf to speak) made particular Answer to Mr Moore for Strangers in resisting his Answers to the five Objections. Then he offered, if the Liberties of the Natives born might be granted to Strangers, they would seek no more, for they desired but to trade in all parts of the Realm.
Mr Hill of Lincolns-Inn (of Councel also with the Strangers, spake next and said, Make it Law that they shall not retail, and the Merchants hereafter will require a Law that they may not use Merchandise; and so the Shoo-maker, Taylor, and others, that they may not use their Trades, and in denying them one, you take away all. (Upon this instant Mr Speaker delivered a Bill which desired they might be barred of such Trades as to be Shoo-makers and such like. But this Bill was thought to be put in by the Strangers themselves of Policy. This I thought.) And besides these Retaylors themselves be not Aliens, but far Foreigners, such as have forsaken their own Countries and Liberties to live here in ours, and home they dare not resort.
It should seem that these three last before-named were all of the Councel of either part that spoke at the Bar, and that the Speeches following were all of them uttered by several Members of the House.
Sir John Wolley spake next, as it should seem, after the Councel of either part had been heard at the Bar, and said: This Bill should be ill for London, for the Riches and Renown of the City cometh by entertaining of Strangers, and giving liberty unto them. Antwerp and Venice could never have been so rich and famous but by entertaining of Strangers, and by that means have gained all the intercourse of the World.
Mr Fuller spake next against Alien Retaylors, and said: The Exclamations of the City are exceeding pitiful and great against these Strangers; nay had not these latter quiet times in their own Countries, and our troubles made many of them retire home, the Citizens would have been in uproar against them: The which if the Government of the City repress not, they will be apt enough to it. It is no Charity to have this pity on them to our own utter undoing; for of them there ought none to be sworn a Denizen, but he should first swear he is not worth five pound. This is to be noted in these Strangers, they will not converse with us, they will not marry with us, they will not buy any thing of our Country-men. Their retailing is the cause that all things be at that price with us. For they make Lawns Velvets, Rashes, Taffataes, Linnen-Cloth, and all this they sell to us also. Now whosoever maketh a thing and selleth a thing, raiseth the price of it. The Retailing Stranger buyeth nothing of our Country Commodities, but all he layeth out he buyeth from beyond the Seas. The Searchers have sometimes taken seven thousand pound of theirs at a time.
Sir Edward Dymock speaking for the Strangers, said: The Beggery of our home Retaylors comes not by the Strangers Retailing, but by our home ingrossers; so that if our Retaylors might be at the first hand, they might sell as good cheap as the Strangers. But this Bill is thrust into the House by our home Ingrossers, of Policy, that their beggering of our Retaylors might be imputed to the Strangers Retailing. The Strangers here purchase dear. And beyond the Seas it is lawful for the Strangers, in the places of the best Traffick, to trade in any thing. In Venice any Stranger may buy, sell, or purchase House or Lands, and dispose thereof by his Will, or otherwise at his pleasure, as freely as any Citizen. And this may we do then in some sort. The Strangers are not they that transport our Coin, but it is our Merchants. For it is to be seen in all the Low-Countries, where her Majesty uttereth much Treasure, there is not so much English Coin to be had, as in the same Towns where the Merchants trade. And of my own Experience I know a Town in the Low-Countries, where a Contract of twenty pound was made by an English Merchant, and he agreed to pay it all in English Angels.
Mr Dalton against the Strangers said, That ingrossing ought to be suffered amongst Merchants, because otherwise the Commodities lying to be sold in parcels, would be consumed in Expences before the Ship were discharged. Therefore for Merchandise sake this is to be suffered. He imputed the Beggery of the City to Strangers, and said, that in some one Parish there were a thousand lived by Begging.
Mr Finch spake for the Strangers, and said: We ought not to be uncharitable, but this must be the Rule, None must so relieve Strangers, as by it to begger themselves. But for their riches, it groweth chiefly by Parsimony, and where they dwell I see not that the Nation is so much grieved at them as here in London, for they contribute to all Scots and Lots as we do. Though they be a Church by themselves, their Example is profitable amongst us, for their Children are no sooner able to go, but they are taught to serve God, and to flee idleness; for the least of them earneth his meat by his labour. Our Nation is sure more blessed for their sakes. Wherefore as the Scripture faith Let us not grieve the Soul of the stranger.
If this Stranger be both a Merchant and a Retaylor, there's a Law against him 15 Eliz. c. 2. But as I am for the Strangers of the Church, so not against any Law that should be made against such Strangers as be not of the Church but here only for Merchandize; and those who have for Conscience sake only, may again (the fire being quenched) safely return into their own Countries. In 6 R. 2. An Act was made what Wares strangers should retayle and what not; but what is understood by this word retailing, or how far it is stretched, I know not. If Retayling stretch to sell that which they make here, as well as that which is brought from beyond Seas, this is too hard a Construction. In the days of Queen Mary, when our Cause was as theirs is now, those Countries did allow us that liberty, which now, we seek to deny them. They are strangers now, we may be strangers hereafter. So let us do as we would be done unto.
Serjeant Drew said: There is no reason we should be without respect to Strangers, yet our Charity must be done with a feeling of our Countrymens grief: And although I think it not fit, that the Law should look back; to have old men, long inhabiting here, now to become Apprentices; yet that all things should be at liberty to all strangers, as it is, that were not convenient. Wherefore I could wish there might be a Law for those that should come hereafter only, and the strangers that be now might be restrained to their Retayling of some Wares especially. My Motion therefore is, That the House would continue the Committee of the Bill until a further day, that it may receive Motion from their deliberation.
After the aforesaid Speeches and Arguments the said Bill against Aliens selling by Retail was upon the question recommitted unto the former Committees (who had been appointed on Tuesday the 6th day of this Instant March foregoing) to meet again about the same Bill in the Afternoon of this present day; and the Bill was also delivered to Mr Dalton one of the same Committees.
Nota, That this Bill of the Subsidy, in respect of the greatness of the sum, passed the House of Commons with very great difficulty, as may appear by those several days upon which it was agitated, viz. on Monday the 25th day of February, and on Friday the second day, Saturday the third day, Tuesday the 6th day, Wednesday the 7th day, Friday the 9th day, and Saturday the 10th day, Tuesday the 13th day, Friday the 16th day and Monday the 19th day of this instant March foregoing.
This day the House was called, and those Members of this House which were then present and did appear, did pay into the hands of Mr Robert Wroth and Mr Warren Esquires, their Charitable Contributions to the Relief of the poor in such proportion as had been agreed upon on Monday the 19th day of this instant March foregoing, viz. every Privy Councellor of the House 30. shillings; every Knight in degree, and every one returned a Knight of a Shire, though not of that degree, and every Serjeant at Law or Doctor of Law (because I suppose they are in some respects accounted equal to Knights) twenty shillings; and every Borough of the Cinque Ports and every Burgess of the House five shillings.
There is also one passage of this day more set down in the aforesaid Anonymous Journal, more particularly mentioned in the beginning of this present Journal, which is omitted in the Original Jounal-Book it self, being as follweth.
A poor Burgess of the House refused to pay his said Contribution of five shillings, would only pay two shillings six pence: whereupon the Speaker would have Committed him for disobeying the Order of the said House, but most of the Members of the same were against it, and so he escaped.
On Friday the 23th day of March, Two Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill concerning Woollen Cloaths and Kerseyes made in the County of Devon, out of Cities, Towns Corporate and Market Towns, was upon the second reading committed unto Sir William Moore, all the Knights and Burgesses of Norfolk, York, Surrey, Kent, Somerset, Devon. and Cornwall, Mr Serjeant Harris and others; And the Bill was delivered to Sir William Moore, who with the rest was appointed to meet to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in this House.
Mr Attorney of the Dutchy, one of the Committees in the Bill for Mr Anthony Cook, shewed that he and the residue of the Committees in that Bill (appointed on Friday the 16th day of this instant March foregoing) have met and had Conference together, and that for sundry respects then opened by him to the House, they thought good to frame a new Bill: And so offered the same new Bill, praying it might be read.
Mr Tasborough, one of the Committees in the Bill for relief of Jurors appearing upon Tryals, bringeth in the old Bill with some Amendments, and prayeth that the same Amendments may be allowed of by the House; hereupon they were twice read, and Ordered to be ingrossed; but the Bill remained without any further course or question at that time.
Mr Serjeant Harris, one of the Committees in the Bill for Mr Ognall (which had been appointed on Friday the 16th day of this instant March foregoing) offereth a Report of the travel of some of the Committees; but it was upon a Counter-Motion made by ....... And so it leaves imperfectly, but it should seem upon the said Counter-Motion made by some other Member of the House, the said Report offered to be made by Serjeant Harris was for this time put by.
The Bill for Explanation and Confirmation of her Majesties Title to the Lands late Sir Francis Englefield's Knight, Attainted of High Treason, was upon the second reading committed unto all the Privy-Council, Mr Attorney of the Dutchy, Mr Nathanael Bacon and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
Mr Finch, one of the Committees in the Bill for the Lord Burgavenny (which had been appointed on Thursday the 20th day of this instant March foregoing) shewed, that he and the residue of the Committees have met and considered of the parts of the said Bill, and find some defects in the same, chiefly in matter of form, and offered such Amendments unto the House as they thought fit; and prayed the same to be read: which being read by the Clerk, it was Ordered by the House that those Amendments should be added to the said Bill in a Schedule.
After which Report made by Mr Finch, it should seem that there followed further dispute this day touching that weighty business of Aliens retailing of Foreign Wares; which being wholly omitted in the Original Journal-Book it self, is therefore inserted out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal, more particularly mentioned in the beginning of this present Journal, in manner and form following, viz.
Mr Palmer, Burgess for London, delivered the Bill for retailing, and signfied, that the Committees could not agree upon it; so desired that it would be considered by the House what is fit in their opinions to be done. But the said Mr Palmer was none of the said Committees.
The Speaker was thereupon ready to put it unto the Question, whether the Bill should be ingrossed; but the House would not have it so suddenly put to the Question. Mr Palmer proceeded and said, That the Strangers of late are grown to so great a number, that they being but forty open Retaylors, have undone since the last Parliament sixty at least of our English Retaylors, for so many are now Beggars that were forty pound Subsidy in the Queens Book. Their retailing hath inhanced the price of all Wares, such as they retail: for when they retailed not, but our English used the sale of fine Lawnes, Hollands and Cambricks, they were better cheap by fifteen pound in an hundred.
The Retailors here are but Factors to such as are Merchants beyond the Seas, so they are both Merchants and Factors; a thing which if we should use beyond the Seas, the Law would be fiery to us, or fire should be our Law if we withstood. And those places where we trade with our Cloth, should we retail it also, we should to inhaunce the price, that they would not be very glad of our Traffick. But this mischief is suffered amongst us by the Dutch.
It is to be proved that there were twenty Retaylors in London that passed ten or twelve thousand pound a piece in a year; and this twenty thousand pound a year at the least the Strangers carry out of the Realm, for of our Commodities they esteem nothing.
Where it was said the other day, our Merchants did carry our Coin out of the Realm, there is a restraint now that none shall do it. And it is to be shewed that the Merchants do Weekly bring in twelve or fifteen hundred pound, and sometimes two thousand weight of strange Coin.
Now whereas it is so much urged to be against that Charity which is commended to us by Moses towards the Stranger, let Moses tell us who is that Stranger; even the Fatherless and Widow. Wherefore from them we must not reap too clean, but cast out some handfuls for them to gather up: when we gather our Vintage, or when we gather our Corn, we must not gather too clean. But shall we be put out to gleaning and give our Fields to them? That were beyond Charity. Wherefore let Moses be expounded by the same Spirit. The Apostle faith, That he that provideth not for his Family is worse than an Infidel. Let us then have an Eye to our Country and our poor Country-men. You be here as Patres Patriæ, you be here as amongst the Romans the Patres conscripti: I beseech you have respect unto this City, upon whose flourishing Estate the whole Realm dependeth.
Sir Walter Raleigh spake next and said: Whereas it is pretended, That for Strangers it is against Charity, against Honour, against profit to expel them; in my opinion it is no matter of Charity to relieve them. For first, such as fly hither have forsaken their own King; and Religion is no pretext for them, for we have no Dutchmen here, but such as came from those Princes where the Gospel is Preached, and here they live disliking our Church. For Honour, It is Honour to use Strangers as we be used amongst Strangers; And it is a lightness in a Common-Wealth, yea a baseness in a Nation to give a liberty to another Nawhich we cannot receive again. In Antwerp where our intercourse was most, we were never suffered to have a Taylor or a Shoemaker to dwell there. Nay at Millain where there are three hundred pound English men, they cannot have so much as a Barber amongst them. And for Profit, they are all of the House of Almoigne, who pay nothing, yet eat out our profits, and supplant our own Nation. Custom indeed they pay, paying fifteen pence where we pay twelve pence, but they are discharged of Subsidies. The nature of the Dutchman is to fly to no man but for his profit, and they will obey no man long, now under Spain, now under Mounfort, now under the Prince of Orange, but under no Governour long. The Dutchman by his Policy hath gotten Trading with all the World into his hands, yea he is now entring into the Trade of Scarborough Fishing, and the Fishing of the Newfound-Lands, which is the stay of the West-Countries. They are the people that maintain the King of Spain in his Greatness. Were it not for them, he were never able to make out such Armies and Navies by Sea; it cost her Majesty sixteen thousand pound a year the maintaining of these Countries, and yet for all this they Arm her Enemies against her. Therefore I see no reason that so much respect should be given unto them. And so to conclude, in the whole cause I see no matter of Honour, no matter of Charity, no Profit in relieving them.
Sir Robert Cecill spake next and said: When I first heard this Bill read, I promised my self silence for it speaks of Trades, wherein I have no skill: But upon so great dispute as it hath received on both sides, and that very throughly and wisely, my understanding is cleared, and I see that now which I saw not before. What the word Retailing meant, I understood not before, but now it is brought to a matter of Charity to relieve Strangers, and especially such as do not grieve our Eyes. This hath brought great Honour to our Kingdom, for it is accounted the refuge of distressed Nations, for our Arms have been open unto them to cast themselves into our Bosoms: But yet our Charity unto them must not hinder or injure our selves. Now as the Bill is, it is not sufficient for this purpose: And if it be put to a Question, it must either be dashed or put to ingrossing. And for my own Conscience, if the Question be now made, I am not resolved to give my Voice. It were not for the gravity of the House nor the credit of the Committees to have it rejected upon the sudden, and as it is now, it is not fit to pass in my conceit. I see the Citizens themselves will be well assenting unto the reforming of the same; for Mr Recorder yesterday speaking with Zeal for the City, yet with good regard thought the Bill might receive great moderation. And thereupon the House was well pleased to stay the Bill and commit it again to the former Committees, to whom were further added Sir Robert Cecill, Sir Walter Raleigh, Sir Henry Knivet, Mr Wroth and others, who were appointed to meet with the former Committees (who had been nominated on Tuesday the 6th day of this instant March foregoing) this Afternoon at two of the Clock in this House.
On Saturday the 24th day of March, the Bill touching Clapboards and Casks was twice read and committed unto the Committees that follow, viz. Mr Treasurer, Mr Wroth, Mr Francis Bacon, Mr Finch and others, and the Bill was delivered to Mr Treasurer, who with the rest was appointed to meet at two of the Clock this Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
The Bill and Committees names touching the Lands late Sir Francis Englefields Knight, Attainted of High Treason, (who had been nominated on Thursday the 22th day of this instant March foregoing) were delivered to Mr Vice-Chamberlain.
The Bill for relief of maimed Souldiers and Mariners was upon the second reading committed unto the former Committees (whose names see before on Monday the 12th day of this instant March foregoing) and Sir Robert Cecill, Mr Richard Brown, Mr Hubberd and others were added unto them, and appointed to meet on Monday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber, and the Bill and Committees names were delivered to Sir Robert Cecill, Vide plus March 28.
Mr Speaker being moved by Mr Edgecombe to read the private Bill for the Town of Stonehouse, and offering to have the Bill read first which came from the Lords touching Popish Recusants, being a publick Bill and remembred from her Majesty; It was upon the further arguing of Sir Edward Dymock put to the question of the House whether the same Bill for the Town of Stonehouse should be read or no, and upon the Question made was Ordered no.
Sir Walter Raleigh, one of the Committees in the Bill against Aliens retailing of Foreign Wares, shewed the travels of the Committees, and offereth unto the House the Bill with a Proviso; And the Proviso being twice read, the Bill and Proviso upon the Question were Committed again to the former Comittees, and the Bill was delivered to Mr Dalton one of the said Committees, who were appointed to meet at two of the Clock in the Afternoon of this present day in the Exchequer Chamber.
On Monday the 26th day of March, Two Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the last concerning Spinners and Weavers was upon the second reading committed unto Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer, Sir William Knowles, Sir Moyle Finch, Sir Francis Hastings and others, and the Bill was delivered to Sir William Knowles, who with the rest was appointed to meet to Morrow in the Afternoon in the Exchequer.
Mr Speaker shewed, that he had received a Bill Signed by her Majesty for the Restitution in Blood of Sir Thomas Parrot Knight Son and Heir of Sir John Parrot Knight deceased lately attainted of High Treason. Whereupon
Mr Vice-Chamberlain, one of the Committees in the Bill concerning Lands late Sir Francis Englefields Knight attainted of High Treason (who had been appointed on Thursday the 22th day of this instant March foregoing) shewed, that he and the residue of the Committees in the same Bill have met together, and for certain things considered therein by them touching some Misprisions and imperfections both in sence and in writing, have thought good, that the said Committees of this House might upon a Motion to be made unto the Lords for Conference touching the said Misprisions and Imperfections have Conference with their Lordships therein, for that the same Bill came from their Lordships. Which upon that motion was assented unto by the whole House accordingly.
And immediately after, the Bill for restraining Popish Recusants to some certain places of aboad lately passed with some amendments in this House, which before came from the Lords; and the Bill also for Confirmation of the Joynture of the Lady Margaret Countess of cumberland, which likewise lately passed in this House; and did also before come from the Lords, were sent up to the Lords by Mr Vice-Chamberlain and others, with Order furthermore of this House to move their Lordships for the said Conference touching the said Misprisions and Imperfections, in the Bill touching the said Lands, lately the said Sir Francis Englefields.
The Bill for the bringing of fresh water to the Town of Stonehouse was upon the second reading committed unto Sir Francis Drake, Mr Edgecombe, Sir Thomas Conisby, Mr Dalton and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
The Bill for the Haven of Plymouth, and the Bill for the Inning of Plimpton Marsh were each of them read the second time, and committed to the former Committees in the Bill for the Town of Stonehouse, to meet at the same time and place, and the Bills were both of them delivered to Sir Francis Drake one of the said Committees.
The Bill touching the Assize of Fuel was upon the second reading committed unto Mr Humphrey Conisbie, Mr Fanshaw, Mr Wroth, and others, and the Bill was delivered to Mr Fanshaw, who with the rest was appointed to meet this present day at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
Mr Serjeant Owen and Mr Doctor Ford do bring word from the Lords, that their Lordships according to the request of this House have assented unto the Conference demanded touching the said Bill, concerning the Lands late Sir Francis Englefields lately Attainted of High Treason; and that their Lordships have appointed the time to be to Morrow Morning at eight of the Clock at the accustomed place.
Mr Serjeant Owen and Mr Doctor Ford do bring word from the Lords, that touching the amendments of this House in the Bill which first passed in the Upper House, and was afterwards sent down unto this House; for restraining of Popish Recusants, to some certain places of aboad, and then passed in the House with some Amendments, and sent unto their Lordships this present day, their Lordships do desire that these Committees of this House which are appointed to have Conference with their Lordships to Morrow touching the said Bill concerning the Lands late Sir Francis Englefields, may also have Authority from this House at the same time and place to have Conference likewise with their Lordships touching the said Amendments of this House in the said Bill for restraining Popish Recusants to some certain places of aboad. Which aferwards upon the Return of that Message made unto that House by Mr Speaker was assented unto by the whole House accordingly, and so signified also unto the said Mr. Serjeant Owen and Mr. Doctor Ford.
On Tuesday the 27th day of March Mr. Fuller, one of the Committees in the Bill for repealing of a branch of a Statute made in quarto & quinto Phil. & Mar. intituled An Act touching the making of Woollen Cloath, shewed the Travel of the Committees in the same. Whereupon after some other speeches then moving the House, the said Bill was recommitted to the former Committees (who had been appointed on Wednesday the 14th day of this Instant March foregoing) to meet again this Afternoon.
The Bill touching the true and lawful Assizing of Bread was read the second time, and upon the doubtfulness of the Voices whether it should be Ingrossed or no, was upon the Question by the division of the House rejected, with the difference of twenty seven Voices, viz. with the Yea sixty five, and with the No ninety two.
The Bill against Strangers retailing of Foreign Wares was read the third time, and after many long Speeches both with the Bill and against the Bill, passed upon the Question by the division of the House, with the difference of fourscore Voices, viz. with the Yea a hundred sixty two, and with the No eighty two. Vide concerning this business on Tuesday the 6th day, on Tuesday the 20th day, Wednesday the 21th day, and on Friday the 23th day of this instant March foregoing.
Matthew Jones Gentleman, being found sitting in this House, and no Member of the same, was brought to the Bar, and there being charged by Mr Speaker for his said offence, humbly excused himself by Ignorance; and appearing unto the House to be a simple ignorant old man, was upon his humble submission pardoned to be discharged to Morrow, paying his Fees, and Ordered in the mean time to remain in the Serjeants Ward of this House.
Mr Serjeant Owen and Mr Doctor Stanhop do bring word from the Lords, That upon Thursday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the accustomed place, Three Earls, three Barons and three Bishops of the Upper House, are appointed to have Conference with some of the Members of this House, if this House should so like, touching a Proviso to be devised for Femes Coverts mentioned in the Amendments of this House to the Bill which passed with their Lordships for restraining of Popish Recusants to certain places of aboad: And shewed, that their Lordships did like very well of the residue of the said Amendments. Which passage being opened unto the House by Mr Speaker, it was Ordered that a competent number of Committees in the said Bill (who had been appointed on Wednesday the 28th day of February foregoing) should attend their Lordships, which was so signified unto the said Mr Serjeant Owen and Mr Doctor Stanhop.
After which the said Mr Serjeant Owen and Mr. Doctor Stanhop do again bring word from the Lords, that touching the date of the beginning or of a Prorogation of a Parliament mentioned in the Bill touching Sir Francis Englefield's Lands, their Lordships do desire, that at the Conference about Recusants, already appointed on Thursday next, a Committee of this House may then also confer with their Lordships in that matter also. Which was then granted.
On Wednesday the 28th day of March, the Bill for reviving, continuing, explanation and perfecting of certain Statutes was twice read, and committed to the former Committees (whose names see before on Monday the 12th day of this instant March foregoing) and unto Mr. Heiman, Mr. Dewhty, Mr. Rotheram, Mr. Finch, Mr. Attorney of the Dutchy, the Burgesses of the Cinque-Ports, Mr. Broughton, Mr. John Hare, Mr. Penruddock and Mr. Doctor Cæsar, and the Bill was delivered to Mr. Wroth one of the former Committees, who with the rest was appointed to meet in this place at two of the Clock in the Afternoon of this present day.
Sir Robert Cecill, one of the Committees in the Bill for the relief of poor maimed Souldiers, (who had been appointed on Monday the 12th day of this instant March foregoing) shewed, that the Committees have met together, but in effect upon sundry reasons shewed amongst them by divers of the said Committees to contrary effects, they could come to no Conclusion, but rather to a meer confusion upon the points of the matter; for his own private part said in the end, That as this House had committed the said Bill unto him and the residue of the said Committees, so had he thought good to commit the same Bill to Prison rather than to return it to this House again in the same or no better state than they did before receive it.
Mr Treasurer, one of the Committees touching Clapboards and Casks (appointed on Saturday the 24th day of this instant March foregoing) shewed the meetings of the Committees and their Amendments to the Bill. Whereupon the said Amendments being read, the Bill and Amendments after some Speeches had to the same were recommitted to the former Committees, and Mr Bucking now added unto them, to meet this Afternoon.
Mr Boucher, one of the Committees in the Bill for the Town of Stonehouse (which had been appointed on Monday the 26th day of this instant March foregoing) shewed the meeting of the Committees, and their Amendments to the Bill; which Amendments being twice read, the Bill with the Amendments were Ordered by the House to be ingrossed.
The five Bills which last passed this House, viz. the Bill for restitution in blood of Sir Thomas Parrot Knight, the Bill concerning the Lands of Henry late Lord Burgavenny, the Bill against Strangers retailing of Foreign Wares, the Bill for Mr. Anthony Cooke, and the Bill for Naturalizing of certain English Mens Children born beyond the Seas, were sent up to the Lords by Mr. Treasurer and others.
The Bill for the Lord Harowden had the second reading, and thereupon was committed to Sir John Harrington, Mr. Wroth, Mr. Hare and others; and the Bill was delivered to Sir John Harrington, who with the rest was appointed to meet this Afternoon in this House.
Matthew Jones Gentleman, Prisoner in the Serjeants Ward, being brought to the Bar and charged by Mr. Speaker with the greatness of his misbehaviour, in presuming to intrude himself yesterday into this High Court of Council being no Member of the same, and giving him grave admonition for his future dutiful behaviour, shewed him in the end, that in regard of his humble submission this House doth discharge him paying his Fees.
The Bill for the maintaining of Wier-Works was upon the second reading committed unto Sir Edward Dymock, Mr. Doctor Cæsar, the Knights and Burgesses for York and Yorkshire, Mr. Wroth and others, and the Bill was delivered to Mr. Doctor Cæsar, who were appointed to meet to Morrow at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
On Thursday the 29th day of March, Mr. Broughton, Mr. Attorney of the Dutchy, Sir Thomas Dennis, and Sir Francis Gudolphen were added to the former Committees in the Bill for the Haven of Plymouth (who had been appointed on Monday the 26th day of this instant March foregoing and appointed to meet at two of the Clock in the Afternoon of this present day.
The Bill concerning the Haven of Colchester, and the paving of the said Town, was upon the second reading committed unto Mr. Vice-Chamberlain, the Burgesses of Colchester Mr. Grimston and others; And the Bill was delivered to Mr. Wroth, one of the said Committees, who with the rest were appointed to meet at two of the Clock this Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
Mr. Treasurer, one of the Committees in the Bill touching Clapboards and Casks (appointed on Saturday the 24th day of this instant March foregoing) brought in the Bill with some Amendments, which being twice read the Bill was Ordered to be ingrossed.
Mr. Serjeant Harris, one of the Committees for the Lord Harrowden (appointed on Wednesday the 28th day of this instant March immediately foregoing) bringing in the Bill and after Report made by him of the Travel of the Committees therein, the Bill was read for the third reading and passed upon the Question.
Mr. Finch, one of the Committees in the Bill for Continuation, Explanation and perfecting of certain Statutes (who had been appointed on Wednesday the 28th day of this instant March foregoing) reporteth the meeting and Travel of the Committees, and also the Amendments of the Bill in sundry things; which Amendments after many long Arguments and sundry questions, with the division of the House were in the end Ordered to be inserted into the said Bill.
On Friday the 30th day of March, Mr. Broughton and Sir Edward Dyer were appointed to attend my Lord Keeper touching the Return of the Habeas Corpus cum Causa, for the bringing up of the Body of Mr. Fitzherbert Esquire. Vide concerning this matter on Thursday the first day, Friday the second day, and on Saturday the 17th day of this instant March foregoing; as also on Tuesday April the 3d, and on Thursday April the 5th postea.
The Amendments in the Bill for Continuation, Explanation and Confirmation of the Queens Majesties Title to the Lands and Tenements late of Sir Francis Englefield Knight, being twice read to the House, and the Bill it self and the same Amendments read the third time also, passed upon the Question.
The Amendments in the Bill for Continuation, Explanation and perfecting of certain Statutes being twice read, were upon the Question after many and sundry Arguments to divers particular points in the same, Ordered upon the question in the end to be ingrossed.
Mr Vice-Chamberlain, one of the Committees in the Bill for maintenance of the Hayer of Colchester, and the paving of the Town, appointed on Thursday the 29th day of this instant March foregoing) shewed, that he and the residue of the Committees have met together, and upon their Conference thought good to suppress the said Bill, for that they could not conveniently agree to such conclusion in the same as might satisfie the Inhabitants of the said Town: And shewed further the imparting of himself and the other Committees unto the Lords touching the Collection and distribution of the money to poor maimed Souldiers; And that thereupon their Lordships had appointed four of themselves for that purpose, which in that Case should join with such of this House as by this House shall be appointed. Whereupon Mr Vice-Chamberlain was Ordered to give their Lordships most humble thanks, and to shew them that after their Lordships shall have sent the Bill again to this House in such sort passed as their Lordships shall think meet, this House will thereupon then do therein what shall appertain.
Doctor Carew and Mr Powle do bring from the Lords a Bill Intituled, An Act for Confirmation of the Subsidies granted by the Clergy, together with the instrument for the same; with request also from their Lordships to this House for speedy Expedition of the same.
Mr Treasurer, Mr. Warren, Sir Francis Drake, Mr. Wroth, Mr. Doctor Herbert, Sir Henry Unton, Sir Thomas Cecill, Sir Thomas Morgan, Mr. Oliver St John, Sir Thomas Baskervile, Sir Thomas Shirley, Mr. John Hart, Mr. Flower, Sir Robert Sidney, Sir Thomas Conisby, are appointed to join with the Lords in the joint disposing of the Contribution of both Houses collected towards the relief of poor maimed Souldiers.
Nota, That this is all which is found in the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons of this days Passages, and therefore there being an excellent Vote or Resolution of the House touching the Addition and Amendments of Bills after their passing of either House, set down in the often before-recited Anonymous Journal, more particularly mentioned at the beginning of this present Journal, I have thought good to have it inserted in manner and form following.
If a Bill having passed the Upper House be sent down to the House of Commons, and be likewise upon the third reading allowed and expedited in that House, and from them sent back again to their Lordships with Alterations and Amendments thereunto added here, the Lords may either reject the said Bill or must pass it with the said Additions, and that nothing more can be inserted into the said Bill by their Lordships; but they must frame either a new Bill in the same matter or business, or send down the former old Bill with other Additions or Provisoes as a new Bill: Or if a Bill being sent from the Lords to the House of Commons, do pass the said House also, as it had their Lordships before the sending down, it can never be again dealt in further by them.
The Bill for reviving, continuing, explanation and perfecting of certain Statutes was read the third time; And after sundry Arguments the two Provisoes touching the dealing with the reputed Fathers of Bastards being withdrawn upon the Question, the Bill upon the Question was passed afterwards accordingly.
Mr. Attorney General and Mr. Doctor Ford do bring from the Lords two Bills; the one Intituled an Act for the restraint of new Buildings, converting of great Houses into several Tenements, and for restraint of Inmates and Inclosures in and near unto the City of London and Westminster; and the other for the Explanation of a branch of a Statute made in the twenty third year of the Queens Majesties Reign, Intituled An Act to retain the Queens Majesties Subjects in their due Obedience, with some Additions to the same, with a Message also from their Lordships, to know the pleasure of this House touching their Lordships request, for the further Explanation by their Lordships to be made of some part of the Amendments of this House in the Bill lately passed their Lordships and sent hither unto this House, and afterwards by this House returned again unto their Lordships with some Amendments of this House, Intituled An Act for restraint of Popish Recusants to some certain places of aboad. And the said Mr. Doctor Ford also shewed, that their Lordships prayed Expedition of the said Bills now brought down, for that the time of Parliament is like now to grow very short.
Mr. Speaker remembred unto the House the effect of the said Message from the Lords; whereupon it was resolved by the House, that Answer should be made unto the said Mr. Attorney and Mr. Doctor Ford, That if their Lordships should add any declaratory Proviso to the said Bill and send it down to this House, this House would thereupon then further do as shall appertain.