The Journals of All the Parliaments During the Reign of Queen Elizabeth. Originally published by Irish University Press, Shannon, Ire, 1682.
This free content was digitised by double rekeying. All rights reserved.
On Tuesday the first day of December, Three Bills had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill for Inning of certain surrounded Grounds in the County of Norfolk was read the second time, and committed to the former Committees for surrounded Grounds in the Counties of Cambridge and Huntington, and unto Sir Michael Sands, Sir Moile Finch, Mr Oliver Cromwell, Mr Walter Cradock and others, and the Bill was delivered to Sir Robert Wroth one of the former Committees, who with the rest was appointed to meet this Afternoon at two of the Clock in the Court of Wards.
Mr Gascock spake and said, Man is made of two parts, a Soul and a Body; And there are two Governments, the one Imperial, the other Sacerdotal; the first belonging to the Common-Wealth, the second to the Church. Swearing is a thing moral and toucheth the Soul, and therefore fitter to be spoken of in a Pulpit than in a Parliament. If the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob hath sworn, his Plague shall not depart from the House of the Swearers, why should we not seek to repress this Vice, which brings a Plague, which breeds Mortality, that breeds Destruction, Desolation, and the utter ruin of the Common-Wealth? If he forbid us to Swear, and we fear not his Commandments, think you a pain of ten shillings as is here set down, will make us refrain this iniquity? I may speak of this Bill as a Painter which made a most Artificial Table of the Waves of the Sea, and another Painter in the same Table Painted a Tree so lively as possible might be, growing as it were out of the Sea: There grew a question which was the most curious Workmanship; and the deciding of the Controversie was referr'd to a third skilful Painter, who gave this Judgment of the Tree, O valde bene, sed non bic erat locus. So may I say of this Bill; It is as hard for this penalty to restrain this Sin, as for Religion to spring out of the Common Law and to take effect. Aristotle faith, a Man may be Bonus Civis, but not Bonus Vir; And though I abhor the sin, yet I deny not but a Sinner may be a good Member. Moses when he saw God, could but see his back parts only, and no Man ever saw more. Why, these Swearers swear by all his Parts, so perfectly, as though they had seen him all over. Philip King of France made a Law that the Swearer should be drowned; Another Law was made that a certain sum should be presently paid as soon as he had Sworn, or else the Swearer to lose his Head. We use so much Levity in our Law, that we had as good make no Law, for we give a Penalty, and to be taken upon condition before a Justice of Peace; Here is wife stuff, first mark what a Justice of Peace is, and we shall easily find a Gap in our Law. A Justice of Peace is a living Creature, yet for half a Dozen of Chickens, will dispense with a whole dozen of penal Statutes. We search and ingross the retail. These be the Basket Justices of whom the Tale may be verified of a Justice that I know, to whom one of his poor Neighbours coming, said, Sir, I am very highly rated in the Subsidy Book, I be. seech you to help me. To whom he Answered, I know thee not. Not me Sir, quoth the Country man? Why your Worship had my Teem and my Oxen such a day, and I have ever been at your Worships Service; Have you so Sir, quoth the Justice, I never remember'd I had any such matter, no not a Sheeps-Tail. So unless you offer Sacrifice to the Idol-Justices, of Sheep and Oxen, they know you not. If a Warrant come from the Lords of the Council to levy a hundred men, he will levy two hundred, and what with chopping in and chusing out, he'll gain a hundred pounds by the Bargain. Nay if he be to send out a Warrant upon a mans request to have any fetcht in upon suspicion of Felony or the like; he will write the Warrant himself, and you must put two shilling in his Pocket as his Clerks Fee, (when God knows he keeps but two or three Hindes) for his better maintenance. Why we have past here five Bills of Swearing, going to Church, good Ale, Drunkenness and ........ this is as good to them as if you had given them a Subsidy and two Fifteenths. Only in that point I mislike the Bill, for the rest I could with it good passage.
Sir Francis Hastings said (amongst other Speeches to this Bill) That such Justices were well worthy to be lockt up in an Ambery. But he wisht that all might not be censured for one evil, who though he neglected both the care of Conscience and Country which he should love, yet doubtless many did not so, as being touched in Conscience to remember that our long Peace should make us careful to please Him in doing of Justice, that had preserved us, and was the Author of our Peace, God himself. And thereupon the said Bill was ingrossed as aforesaid.
Mr. Wifeman moved the House to remember two things; one that it had been an Antient Custom in Parliament, sometimes to call the House, which as yet was not done; the other, that whereas heretofore Collection had been used for the Poor, those which went out of Town, would ask leave of the Speaker and pay thier money.
Sir Edward Hobbie said, The Gentleman that last spake moved you, but I would remove you a little further. May it please you, It hath been a most laudable Custom, that some contribution or Collection should be made amongst us in pios usus; And I humbly pray we do not forget our Parliamental Charity. Every Knight paid ten shillings, every Burgess five shillings, part of the whole to the Minister, and part to your Servant here, and part to the Poor, the rest at your disposals. The last time our Charity ransom'd a Prisoner, for the Father's good desert. The last time Sir Robert Wroth and Mr. Fettiplace were Collectors. It rests in you either to appoint them or chuse others.
Mr. Fettiplace said, It is true, Mr. Speaker, I was Collector the last year, there was paid out of the money collected, to the Minister ten pound, to the Serjeant thirty pound, to Sir John Leveson for the redemption of Mr. Fox his Son that made the Book of Martyrs, thirty pound: There was money given to Prisons, that is the two Counters, Ludgate and Newgate in London, in Southwark two, and Westminster one. How old the Custom is I know not; but how good it is I know. For my own particular, having once undergone that service already, I humbly pray that it would please you to accept another.
Mr. Tate said, Charity proceedeth from Conscience, it breeds obedience to God, it pleaseth God; and so went on and spake for a Town in his Country lately burnt, that it would please the House to contribute something to the Poors Loss.
The Bill for Denization of certain persons born beyond the Seas, as also the Bill for Confirmation of the Grant of King Edward the Sixth to Sir Edward Seymour Knight, had each of them one reading and passed upon the question, and with three others were sent up to the Lords by Mr Comptroller, Mr. Secretary Herbert and others.
Sir Walter Raleigh made Report of the Travel of the Committees in the Bill touching the payment of Debts upon Shop-Books (who were appointed on Wednesday the 15th day of November foregoing) and brought in the Bill with some small Amendments, and prayed the reading thereof.
Mr. Tate likewife brought in the Bill from the Committees touching Sir Anthony Mayney Knight, with some Amendments and Alterations by the same Committees (who were appointed on Monday the 23th day of November foregoing.
The Amendments in the Bill touching ShopBooks were twice read, and with the Bill upon the question and division of the House Ordered to be ingrossed, viz. with the Yea a hundred fifty four, and with the No eighty eight.
These things being thus transcribed out of the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, now follows a Message delivered by the Speaker in her Majesties name to the House, out of the private Journal.
Mr Speaker said First I am by her Majesties Commission to make Report unto you of that notable and excellent Speech which her Majesty delivered. I shall deliver unto you but a shadow of that substance; but I greatly rejoice, that so many were there present who are well able to supply to others the true Report of her Majesties Speech. It pleased her Majesty to shew in what gracious part she accepted our Loyalties. She said she rejoyced not so much to be a Queen, as to be a Queen over so thankful a People, and that God had made her a means to save us from Shame, Tyranny and Oppression. She did accept of our intended Present, which she said manifested our Love and Loyalty; most graciously affirming, that she never was any greedy Griper or Fastholder, and what we did present, she would not hoard it. For the thanks which were yielded for her great regard of us, she willed me to return her thanks to you most graciously; and to tell you, that her Heart never inclined to pass any Grant but upon suggestion that it was for the good of the Subjects: And now that the contrary hath appeared, she took it graciously that the knowledge thereof came from her Subjects. She ever set the last Judgement before her Eyes, and never thought arose in her but for the good of her People. If her Grants were abused to their Hurt against her Will, she hoped God would not lay their Culps and offences to her Charge, and the principal Members not touched; And had it not been for these her good Subjects, she had fallen from Lapse into Error. Those that did speak she thought spake not out of spleen or displeasure to the Grants, but to deliver the grief of their hearts, which above any Earthly Pleasure the respected. She said she was not allured with the Royal Authority of a King, neither did she attribute any thing unto her self, but all to the Glory of God. She said, the Cares and Trouble of a Crown are known only to them that wear it; and were it not more for Conscience sake than for any desert or want of disposition in her, these Patentees should not escape without condign Punishment. She desired not to Reign longer than that her Government and Reign should be for our good. She said, we well might have a Prince of more wisdom and sufficiency, but of more Love and Affection we should never have. Her Majesty delivered a Commandment to Mr Comptroller and Mr Secretary, that the Gentlemen of the Country should be brought to kiss her Hand before they departed.
The Bill to prevent Perjury and Subornation of Perjury was read the second time, and committed unto the Queens Learned Council being Members of this House, Mr Attorneys of the Dutchy and the Court of Wards, Sir Moyle Finch, Sir Anthony Cope, Mr Townsend, Mr Bacon and others; And the Bill was delivered to Mr Townsend, who with the rest was appointed to meet upon Thursday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Middle-Temple Hall.
On Wednesday the second day of December, Four Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the last being for the Assurance of the Parsonage and Vicaridge of Rotherstone to Tho. Venables Esq; was read the second time, and committed unto the Knights and Burgesses for Chester and Cheshire, the Burgesses for Oxford, Sir Edward Hobbie and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow in the Court of Wards, at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
The Bill for the Amendments of Double Soal green was read the second time, and committed unto Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer, Sir Robert Wroth, Sir William Lane and others; and the Bill was delivered to Sir Robert Wroth, who with the rest was appointed to meet upon Friday next in the Exchequer Chamber at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
In that I speak being least worthy, I hope it will be deemed to proceed from affection, not presumption. Besides, I have learnt it for a Rule in this House, it is better to venture Credit than Conscience: There are three things to be considered in this Bill; the inconveniency, the necessity of the remedy, and the conveniency of the punishment. For the inconveniency, no man but knows it, who knows the State of his Country. In mine there is nothing more generally complained of than the inequality of measures; for the rich have two measures, with the one he buyes, and ingrosseth Corn in the Country, that is the greater; with the other he retails it at home to his poor Neighbours, that's by the lesser. This is to the great and just complaint of all. So after many other matters moved upon Statutes, the Bill was committed to Mr Frechvile, Mr Wiseman, Mr Johnson, Sir George Moore, Sir Robert Wroth, Sir John Egerton, the Burgesses and Citizens of all Cities and Corporate Towns, the Knights for Norfolk, Mr Francis Moore, Mr Zachary Lock, Mr Warcup, Mr Simnell, Mr Doyle and Mr Thomas Cæsar, who were appointed to meet upon Saturday next in this House at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
Mr Roger Owen said, that he misliked the Bill for two respects; the one for the Penalty, the other in respect of the Party punishing, that is the Justice. For the first the Penalty is twelve pence. It is well known that the poorest Recusant in England ought as well as the rich to pay his twenty pound, and for want of Lands and Goods his Body is lyable; And therefore we shall double punish him, which is against Law. For the other, touching the Justice, I think it too great a trouble, and they are ever loaden with a number of penal Statutes, yea a whole Alphabet, as appears by Hussey in the time of Henry the Seventh. And this is a matter so obvious, that a Justice of Peace his House will be like a Quarter Sessions with the multitude of these Complaints. I think also it is an infringement of Magna Charta, for that gives Tryal per pares, but this by two Witnesses before a Justice of the Peace. And by this Statute if a Justice of Peace come into the Quarter Sessions, and say it is a good Oath, this is as good as an Indictment: Therefore for my part away with the Bill.
Sir Francis Hastings said, I never in my Life heard Justices of the Peace taxed before in this sort: for ought I know, Justices of Peace be men of Quality, Honesty, Experience and Justice. I would ask the Gentleman that last spake, but two questions; the first, if he would have any Penalty at all inflicted; the second, if in the first Statute or in this an easier way for the levying of this twelve pence. If he deny the first, I know his Scope; if the second, no man but himself will deny it. And to speak so in both, is neither gravely, religiously nor rightly spoken. And therefore for God, the Queen, and our Countries sake, I beseech a Commitment.
Mr Carey Raleigh said, The Sabbath is Ordained for four Causes; First, To meditate on the Omnipotency of God, Secondly, To Assemble us together to give thanks, Thirdly, That we might be the better enabled to follow our own Affairs, Fourthly, That we might hallow that day and sanctify the same. King james the Fourth in the Year 1512. and King James the Sixth in the Year 1579, or 1597. did erect and ratify a Law, that whosoever kept either Fair or Market upon the Sabbath, his moveables should presently be given to the Poor. Men gathering of sticks were stoned to Death, because that was thought to be a kind of Prophanation of the Sabbath. In France a Woman refusing to sanctify the Sabbath, Fire appeared in the Air; this moved her not: it came the second time, and devoured all that ever she had (only a little Child in the Cradle excepted.) But to come nearer our selves, in the Year 1583. the House of Paris Garden by Gods just Judgment fell down as they were at the Bear-baiting the 23th of January on a Sunday, and four hundred persons sorely crushed, yet by God's Mercy only eight slain outright. I would be an humble Suitor to the Honourable that sit about the Chair, that this brutish Exercise may be used on some other day and not upon the Sunday, which I with my heart do wish may be observed, and doubt not, but great reformation will come if this Bill pass. To the better effecting whereof, I humbly pray, that if there be imperfections in it, it may be committed.
Sir George Moore said, I have read that the tongue of a man is so tyed in his mouth, that it will stir, and yet not so tied that it will stir still. It is tied deep in the Stomach with certain strings which reach to the heart; to this end I say, that what the heart doth offer, the tongue may utter; what the heart thinks the tongue may speak. This I know to be true, because I find it in the word of truth, Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. For the Gentleman that last spake and so much inveighed against Justices, it may be it proceeds out of the corruption of his heart; howsoever I mean not to search it or answer him; only I turn him to Solomon and mean to answer him with silence. Without going to Church, doing Christian Duties, we cannot be Religious, and by Religion we learn both our Duty to God and to the Queen. In doing our Duty to God we shall be better enabled to do our Duty to our Prince. And the word bindeth us, that we should give to God that which is due to God, Et Cæsari quæ sunt Cæsaris Amongst many Laws which we have, we have none for constraint of Gods Service. I say None, though one were made in primo of this Queen, because that Law is no Law which takes no force, for Executio Legis, vita Legis. Then let us not give such cause of Comfort to our Adversaries, that having drawn a Bill in Question for the service of our God, we should stand so much in questioning the same. Once a Month coming to Church excuseth us from danger of the Law, but not from the Commandment of God, who faith, Thou shalt sanctifie the Sabbath day, that is, every Sabbath. This Bill ties the Subject to so much and no more, which being agreeable with the Law of God, and the Rule of Policy, I see no reason why we should stand so strictly in giving it a Commitment.
Mr Bond said, I wish the Sabbath sanctified according to the precise Rules of Gods Commandment, but I wish that St Augustins Rule may be observed in the manner, non jubendo, sed docendo, magis monendo quàm minando. I like not that power should be given to the Justices of Peace; for who almost are not grieved at the luxuriant Authority of Justices of Peace ? By the Statute of I Edw. 3. they must be good men and lawful, no maintainers of evil, but moderate in Execution of Laws; for Magistrates be men, and men have always attending on them two Ministers Libido & Iracundia; men of this nature do subjugate the free born Subject. Clerks can do much, Children more, and Wives most. It is dangerous therefore to give Authority in so dangerous a thing as this is, which I hold worth your second thoughts, quæ solent esse prudentiores. Her Majesty during all the time of her Reign hath been clement, gracious, meek and merciful, yea chusing rather delinquere, I know not how to term it, in Lenity and not in Cruelty. But by this Statute there is a constraint to come to divine service, and for neglect all must pay. Plectentur Achivi, the poor Commonalty, whose strength and quietness is the strength and quietness of us all, he only shall be punished, he vexed. For will any think that a Justice of Peace will contest with as good a man as himself? No, this Age is too wife. I leave it to this House, whether it stand with Policy,when four Subsidies and eight Fifteenths be now granted, to bring the poorer sort into greater fear by these and such like Laws, Malus custos dinturnitatis metus. And in the gracious Speech which her Majesty lately delivered unto us, she used this, that she desired to be beloved of her Subjects. It was a wife Speech of a wife Prince, for an Historian saith, Timor excitat in vindictam. Therefore Mr Speaker, I mislike the Bill in that point touching Justices, and also touching taxation. I will only say thus much with Panutius in the Nicene Council, Absit quòd tam grave jugum fratribus nostris imponamus.
I am sorry said Mr Comptroller, after forty three years under her Majesties happy government that we shall now dispute or commit a Bill of this nature. And I would that any voice durst be so bold or desperate as cry, Away with this Bill. The old Statute gives the penalty, this new only speedier means to levy it. I much marvel that men will or dare accuse Justices of Peace, Ministers to her Majesty without whom the Commonwealth cannot be. If this boldness go on, they will accuse Judges, and lastly the Seat of Justice it self. That all Justices should be thus generally accused, this is meer Barbarism indeed. When her Majesty shall have understanding hereof, it will be no content unto her, and a scandal unto us all.
Mr Glascock said, In that I am taxed to tax Justices of Peace, I am to pray the House to give me leave to make an Apology for my self. Mr Speaker, I will not deny that I spake, and protest it in my conscience, I spake only of the inseriour sort of Justices, commonly called Basket Justices; against these I will not speak that I spake last, but other matter in other Terms. They be like the wife men of Chaldee, that could never give judgment till they saw the Entrails of Beasts. Our Statutes penal be like the Beast born in the Morning, at his full growth at noon, and dead at night: So these Statutes quick in Execution like a wonder for nine days; so long after, they be at the height; but by the end of the year, they are carried dead in a Basket to the Justices House.
Mr. Martin said, I am rather willing to speak, in that I would willingly have an end of this matter. I think we all agree upon the substance, that it is fit the Sabbath should be sanctified. The other matter which is the impediment, I know it is a grief, but I leave it as matter more fit to be decided at a Committee, than here. And therefore for the Honour of the Queen and of her Government, I with it may be committed without further Argument.
Sir Robert Wroth said, I think the Office of Justice of Peace is too good a calling for him that exclaims against it, and I think he'll ne're have the honour to have it. It were good they were named, and that he told who they were: otherwife honest men will be loth to serve the Queen, when they shall be slandered without proof. Therefore I would he might answer it at the Bar. And all said, No, No.
Mr. Johnson said, This Bill is an excellent good Bill; And I have observed in all the Speeches yet spoken have been interlarded with other matter. The Gentleman now protesteth he spake of Basket Justices; I appeal to the whole House whether his definition were not general, viz. A Justice of Peace is a kind of living Creature, that for half a Dozen of Chickens will dispense with a dozen of penal Statutes. I think it is well known that the Honourable that sit about the Chair, and all the rest of her Majesties Privy Council have and do hold the same place, and this toucheth them as much as Inferiour Justices. And therefore I humbly pray he may answer it at the Bar, and that it may not be past over with silence.
Mr Hide said, Every man agrees this Bill hath good matter, and we all agree and consent to the substance, though diffent to the form; some have more wit, & some have more understanding than others. If they of meaner capacity and Judgment spake impertinently, let us not in a spleen straight cry, Away with the Bill; but let us give it the same favour we give to Bills of far inferious nature, that is a Commitment; so the Bill was committed to the former Committees (who were appointed on Wednesday the 18th day of November foregoing) and to all the Privy Council being of this House, Sir Robert Wroth, Sir Carew Reignolds, Sir Anthony Cope, Mr. Bond, Mr. Martin, Mr. Hide, Mr. Owen, Mr. Beeston and Mr. Wimarke, who were appointed to meet to Morrow in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber at two of the Clock.
Two Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill against Victualling Houses, Taverns, &c. was read the third time; And after many Arguments upon the question dashed.
The Bill against double payment of Debts upon Shop-Books was read the third time, and Ordered upon the question of Amendment in some few words to be committed unto Mr. Serjeant Harries and others, and to be put to the question for passing to Morrow.
Peter Fretchvile Esquire, returned unto this present Parliament one of the Knights for the County of Derby, for that he is chosen Sheriff of the County and other his necessary affairs, is licensed by Mr. Speaker to depart home.
Nota, That have it appeareth that Peter Fretchvile Esquire being a Member of the House and elected Sheriff of the County of Derby did notwithstanding continue his place in the same: by which it is apparent that the said places are not incompetible, but may stand and be together simul & semel in one and the same Person.
On Thursday the third day of December, Four Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill for the strengthening of the North parts was read the second time, and committed unto all the Privy Council being Members of this House, the Knights and Burgesses for Cumberland, Westmerland and Northumberland and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow in the Afternoon at two of the Clock in the Exchequer Cham ber.
The Bill for the Assurance of the Joynture of the Countess of Sussex was read the second time, and committed unto the Privy Council being Members of this House, Mr Serjeant Harries, Sir Walter Raleigh, Sir Robert Wroth and others, who were appointed to meet this Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber at two of the Clock.
The Bill for the Assurance of the Joynture of Rachell the wife of Edward Nevill of Eirling in the County of Kent was read the second time, and committed unto Sir Edward Hobbie, Sir George Moore, Sir Moyle Finch, Sir John Grey, Mr. Francis Moore and others, who were appointed to meet this Afternoon at two of the Clock in the Exchequer Chamber.
The Bill touching the confirmation of the sale of Lands made by Lewes late Lord Mordant deceased, was read the second time and committed unto the former Committees for the Earl of Sussex, and Mr Attorney of the Wards, Mr Tanfield, Mr Winch and Mr Ludlow who were added unto them.
Mr Mountague moved that such persons as shall prefer and have benefit by any private Bills may in regard of their said benefits be charged with some consideration and payment of Money towards the relief of the Poor, which being assented unto, It was Ordered by the whole House, That such persons as shall have any private Bills expedited and passed in this House during this Session of Parliament only, shall pay towards the relief of the Poor, for every Bill so passed in this House touching the sale of Lands, ten pound; and likewife for every Bill for confirmation of partiuclar Joyntures the sum of five pound, to be distributed in such sort as this House shall further appoint.
Upon a motion made by Mr Secretary Cecill that the Charity and Collection made by the Members of this House for the relief of the Poor (during this present Session of Parliament) may especially be extended to the comfort of the poor maimed Souldiers now remaining in and about the City of London, it was most willingly and readily assented unto by the whole House.
Mr Dannet Burgess for Yarmouth said, May it please you, Mr Speaker, The duty I owe to my Sovereign and Country makes me bold to crave your Patience to hear me. The matter that I shall speak of is twofold, the first concerneth the Honour of the Queen, the second the safety of our Country, two very high points for me to handle, and require a more elequent Discourse than I am able to make. I will use no circumstance or with superfluous matter abuse the time which is very precious, but to the matter. I have been of the Parliament five or six times, and I have always observed by this House (and I would willingly be resolved by the Honourable about the Chair) that all the Wars of her Majesty are Wars offensive, and I do not hear the contrary: How then windes it that such a number of her Majesties Subjects be spoiled, robbd, beaten, wounded, themselves taken, used with such extream torture, rack'd, carried away, imprisoned, ransomed, fined, and some executed, and all this time no Wars? But give me leave, for these ten Years, I am sure the Subjects of this Land on the Sea-Coast have undergone these Tyrannies, and by whom? even by two base Towns Dunkirk and Newport. Dunkirk at first began with two Ships and are now encreased to almost twenty. They are at home at Supper, and the next day here with us. I must needs consess the great charge that I know the Lord Admiral is at continually by lying ready to take these Pirates. Send to take them, they straight flie home: if our Ships return they are streight here again. I dare boldly say it, they have done England more hurt since they began, than all France, either in the time of Hen. 8. Edw. 5. or Queen Mary. If it be so that these two base Towns shall so confront the Power of this Land, I see no reason why they should be suffered: for it is a great dishonour both unto the Queen and unto the Kingdom. I have heard many say that the Navies are the Walls of the Kingdom; but we suffer our Ships still to be destroyed, some to be burnt, and some to be sunk. We may compare our Seamen to Sheep feeding upon a fair Mountain, in the midst whereof stands a little Grove full of Wolves: Why Mr Speaker we are so plagued with them, that they be so bold, as now and then to take our Harvest-men tardy with Ambuscadoes. I speak with grief, and it was reported unto me by a Scottish-man, that Duke Albert and the Infanta should plainly publish, that they would pull down so many of the Walls of England, that they would easily make an Entry. And it had been better for Sea-Coast men to have given the Queen an hundred Subsidies that they had been long since supprest. My humble Motion is, that it would please the House to enter into consideration of these things, for the honour, good and safety both of the Queen and of the Kingdom.
Mr Peake said, I must needs shew unto this House (upon so good an occasion offered) how grievously the Town of Sandwich (for which I serve) is vexed and almost undone, insomuch as in that Town there is neither Owner, Master or Mariner that hath not felt it. Her Majesty is continually at Charge, but what ensueth or cometh of it, I never yet knew. If in the County of Kent at Shooters Hill, Gadd's Hill, Baram Down, &c. there should many and ofter Robberies be committed, and the Justices look not to it, this were but an ill part. Every day men come home, their Goods and all they have taken away, yea their very Apparel; and if the Ships might also be carried away, they would do it. This would be amended and looked into. We had need to cherish this Subject, I think him to be the best and most necessary Member of the Common-Wealth, I mean the Navigator.
Mr Martin said, I like not these extravagant Speeches in the manner, though I mislike them not in the matter. They are like to men whose House being on Fire run out into the street like Madmen for getting themselves of help. That that Cottage of Dunkirk, the flourishing Estate whereof is a dishonour to our Nation, should so much offend us, when we never offer to suppress them; it is no marvail. I think there is no man but understands the grief: But I wish that those who at first propounded to the House this matter, had also laid down some project, though never so small, of remedy; otherwise such cursory Motions as these be, cannot be but very distastful to the House.
Mr Secretary Cecill said, My Speech shall only tend to advance the Motion of the Gentleman that spake first in this point. If we would have remedy, we are to consider two things; First, That it will be a matter of charge, and secondly, That there must be a distribution thereof. For the first, I leave it to you; for the second, it is out of my Element. Withal I must excuse them that have Authority to remedy this; For unless you would have a continual charge unto her Majesty by having Ships lying betwixt us and Dunkirk, it is impossible but that at sometimes these Robberies will be committed. I could very well agree to bring this Motion to some head, being a matter in mine opinion very considerable, in a Committee; And all said, I, I, I.
Mr Dannet said, I would only move the House that some Masters of Ships and Seamen might be sent for to attend at the Committee. Whereupon it was Ordered to be considered of and refer'd to Committees, viz. all the Privy Council being Members of this House,the Queens Learned Councel being of this House, Sir Walter Raleigh, the Burgesses for Ports and Sea-faring Towns, the Knights of the Shires for Maritime Counties, the Masters of Request, Mr Lieutenant of the Tower, Sir Francis Hastings, Sir Robert Wroth and others, who were appointed to meet upon Saturday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
Mr Tate said, I would only move the House, that whereas an Information is exhibited by the Earl of Huntington against a Member of this House, Mr Belgrave, into the Star-Chamber, containing no matter of substance or note other than matter very dishonourable to this House; therefore I humbly pray, it may be refer'd to be considered of by the Committees for the Priviledges of the House, (whose names see on Saturday the 31th day of October foregoing) And all said I, I, I: and he delivered the Information to the Speaker. Vide December 16. Wednesday.
The Bill for the re-uniting the Mannor of Eye and Dunsden to the Mannor of Sunning was read the second time, and committed presently to be considered of in the Committee Chamber by Mr Sollicitor, Sir Francis Bacon and others, and to have Conference with the Lords touching the same Bill.
Mr Bacon speaking of this Bill said, that Bills were wont to be committed with pleasure, but now we would scarce hear them with Patience: The Merchants Books be springing Books; every year they encrease.
Mr Henshaw amongst other Speeches shewed, that it was easy to cross a Merchants Book, which a man might see at all times; but if one should give the Merchant a Bond, when he had many thrust together, perhaps he would intreat the Gentleman to come some other time for it, who if he should in the mean time die, his Executors are without remedy, &c.
Serjeant Harris said, These Merchants Books be like Basingstoak Reckonings, over night five shillings and six pence, if you pay it; if not, in the Morning it is grown to a just Noble. This Debt is a sleeping Debt, and will lull Young Gentlemen into the Merchants Books with the golden Hooks of being trusted by the Merchant, and his Expectation after his Fathers Decease: These are matters dangerous, and may prove hurtful; wherefore I think it a good Bill.
Mr Thomas Jones said, It is my Chance now to speak something, and that without Hemming or Hawing. I think this Law is a good Law. Streight reckonings make long Friends. As far goes the penny as the penny Master. Vigilantibus & non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Pay the reckoning over night and you shall not be troubled in the Morning. If ready money be mensura publica, let every man cut his Coat according to his Cloth. When the old Suit is in the Wane, let him tarry till his money bring a new Suit in the increase. Therefore I think the Law to be good, and I with a good passage.
Mr Hackwell of Lincolns-Inn said, I am a man of that rank and condition, that I never fell, I seldom buy, and pay ready money, and the safest course this Bill offers to me for my particular. But the great mischief that will redound by it to the Commons is that which makes me speak. I am not transported with such vehemency, but if I may be answered, I'le lay down the Buckler. This Bill hath a good Face and an ill Body. It hath a very good Head-piece, I mean the Title. If I may intreat you to put on a good deal of Patience for a little time, I will make it somewhat plain. We must lay down the respects of our own persons, and put on others, and their affections for whom we speak; for they speak by us. If the matter which is spoken of toucheth the poor, then think me a poor man. He that speaks, soemtimes he must be a Lawyer, sometimes a Painter, sometimes a Merchant, sometimes a mean Artisicer. Most men desire forbearance; this Bill destroys it, which tends to the gain and good of the Creditors, and good also of the Buyer: but seeking to avoid a mischief we fall into an inconveniency; for the manner is unproportionable and unjust. If the Buyer be so negligent that he will not care to see himself discharged, must we needs make a Law to help his Folly? The Proverb is Caveat Emptor. If this Law go forwards, the Augmentation of Confidence in his antient habiliments cannot be preserved. For if it be a hard Year, the poor Artificer which hath Wife, Children and Houshold, and lives by the sweat of his Brows, cannot live; for he hath no money to buy all by the penny; but perhaps he hath Credit, which perhaps may help his present necessary Estate. Besides, I can teach you all a trick, how for twelve pence you shall avoid this Statute; And that is, put in an Original within a Year, and so let it lie Dormant.
After this Motion, the House after four hours Argument and sitting till three quarters after twelve, was divided; the I's had a hundred fifty one Voices, and the Noes a hundred and two. So the Bill passed by forty nine Voices. Then the Noes should have fetcht in the Bill and gone out with it, because it was at the passage of the Bill; but because time was past, and it was very late, and there were great Commitments this Afternoon, they were dispensed withal.
Nota, That these are Excellent Precedents touching the manner of bringing in a Bill upon the division of Voices, and withal upon what ground the Ceremony it self was omitted; to which purpose also there fell out like Precedents on Friday the 21th day of March in Anno 31 Regin. Eliz. and on Thursday 21. day of December in Anno 39 Reginæ ejusdem.
On Friday the 4th day of December, Three Bills had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill for confirming the Authority and Government of the Mayor, Sheriffs and Aldermen of the City of London within St Katherine Christ Church, was read the second time and committed unto the Knights and Citizens for London, Mr Doctor Cæsar, Sir Robert Wroth, Sir Moyle Finch, Sir George Moore and others, who were appointed to meet upon Monday next in the Afternoon at two of the Clock in the Doctors Commons.
The Bill for reformation of abuses in Sheriffs and other inferiour Officers for not executing Writs of Proclamation upon Exigents according to the Statute of 31 Eliz. was read the second time, and committed unto Mr Sollicitor, Mr Attorney of the Dutchy and others, who were appointed to meet upon Monday next in the Middle-Temple Hall, at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
The Bill touching the making of Fustians within the Realm was read the second time and committed unto all the Queens Privy Council and Learned Councel being of this House, the Knights and Citizens for London, the Burgesses for Chard, Colchester and Canterbury, Sir Walter Raleigh, Mr Maynard, Mr Hide, Sir Edward Hobbie, Sir Francis Darcy, Mr Wiseman and others, who were appointed to meet upon Thursday next in the Exchequer Chamber at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
The Bill prohibiting any Fair or Market to be kept on the Sunday was read the second time and committed to the former Committees in the Bill touching the Sabbath day (who were appointed on Wednesday the 4th day of November foregoing.) And Mr Brown and Mr Doyle were added unto them, who were appointed to meet to Morrow Morning in the Committee Chamber of this House.
On Saturday the 5th day of December, Three Bills had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill that Lands in the nature of Gavelkind may descend according to the Custom of the Common Law, was read the second time, and committed unto the Queens Learned Councel being of this House, Sir Moyle Finch, Sir Michael Sands, Sir Thomas Fludd, Sir John Lewson and others; who were appointed to meet upon Monday next in the Morning in the Committee Chamber of this House.
The Bill for the relief of Theophilus Adams was read the second time, and committed unto the Knights and Citizens for London, Mr Winch and others, who were appointed to meet in the Exchequer Chamber upon Monday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
The Bill for the granting of four entire Subsidies and eight Fsteenths and Tenths granted by the Temporalty was read the third time and passed upon the question; And was presently sent up to the Lords by all the Privy Council and others of this House.
Nota, That whereas in the Parliament which was begun and holden at Westminster in an. 35 Eliz. Anno. Dom. 1592. the Knights, Citizens and Burgesses of the House of Commons were not drawn without much and long dispute, both amongst themselves and with the Lords, to yield unto the Grant of three Subsidies and six Fifteenths and Tenths (being a greater gift than had ever before been given unto her Majesty) and that the same was then also assented unto in respect of the great dangers were newly threatned unto her Majesty from Rome and Spain with caution and promise nevertheless that it should not be drawn into Precedent for future times; yet in the next Parliament which ensued in 39 Reginæ Anno Dom. 1596. although none of the said imminent dangers which had been feared in the above-mentioned thirty fifth Year of her Majesties Reign had to that time come into any real Execution, the House of Commons was notwithstanding again drawn to yield unto the same proportion of three Subsidies and fix Fifteenths and Tenths, to be paid also unto her Majesty within a shorter time; And now lastly in this present Parliament in An.43 & 44 Regin. ejusdem Anno Dom. 1601. the said House was drawn in respect chiefly of the troubles of Ireland, where the Spaniard had set footing, to present unto her Highness the extraordinary and great gift of four Subsidies and eight Fifteenths and Tenths, the Bill whereof did this present Saturday being the 15th day of December pass the House of Commons upon the third reading, and was presently sent up to the Lords as aforesaid, by whom it was lastly passed also upon the third reading upon Tuesday the 15th day of this instant December ensuing.
Mr Boyce made Report of the meeting of the Committees in the Bill for the Jointure of Rachell Wife of Edward Nevill, &c. (who were appointed on Thursday the third day of this instant December foregoing) and brought in the Bill with some Amendments.
Sir Francis Hastings made Report at large of the meeting and travel of the Committees in the Bill touching coming to Church on the Sunday, being in some parts amended, delivered in the Bill and prayed the reading thereof.
Mr Fettiplace said, There was remedy three manner of wayes; First, There is transportation of Ordnance, which being carried to the Low Country-man, he carryeth it to Dunkirk or to our Enemies, which if it were hindred, doubtless our Enemies would find want in time; Secondly, The Law of Tonnage and Poundage; Thirdly, It hath been offered to the States, that the Maritime parts might save themselves freely. And I take it to be a Rule in Policy, we should not yield that to our Friends, which may be fitting to our Foes.
Mr Wingfield shewed the Bill touching Fens,
which was exhibited the last Parliament and past
both Houses, but advised upon by her Majesty
for some respects, Intituled An Act for the recovering of three hundred thousand Acres more or
less of Wasts, Marish and Watry Grounds in the Isle
of Ely and in the Counties of Cambridge, Huntington, Northampon, Lincoln, Norfolk and Suffolk. On the
left side on the top of the Bill was written in Roman
Letters Soit bayle as Seignieurs; and close to that
in another hand, A cest Bill avecq; les amendments
& la provision à celle annexes, les Surs sont assentus: under the Provision annexed to the Act on
the left side thereof close to the writing, Soit
bayle aux Communes: on the back under the
Title aforesaid was written thus 1.
He shewed also the Bill for Fens in this Parliament intituled An Act concerning the draining and recovering from the water of certain overflown grounds in the County of Norfolk. It was concluded at the Committee, that the Coast Town-men of the County should meet together in the Afternoon on Monday, and consider of some course, and relate the same to the Committee again.
Mr. Serjeant Harries made Report of the meeting of the Committees in the Bill for the Assurance of the Joynture of the Countess of Sussex (who were appointed on Thursday the third day of this instant December foregoing) and of some Amendments and a Proviso added by the Committees.
Mr Snigg one of the Committees in the three Bills touching Cloths and Clothiers (who were appointed on Wednesday the 18th day of November foregoing) declared that by Order and direction of the same Committees he hath reduced and drawn the three said Bills into one Bill reformed in the Abuses committed amongst Clothiers, and prayed the reading.
Mr. Doyle, one of the Committees in the Bill touching Fairs and Markets, not to be kept on the Sunday (who were appointed on Friday the 4th day of this instant December foregoing) brought in the Bill with some Amendments added by the Committees.
The Bill touching the Assize of Fuel was read the second time and committed unto the Knights and Citizens for London, Sir Jerom Bowes, Sir Robert Wroth and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow in the Court of Wards at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
The Bill touching Charitable uses, &c. was read the second time, and committed to the former Committees (who were appointed on Saturday the 28th day of November foregoing) and Mr Serjeant Harries and others were added unto them, who were appointed to meet this Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber at two of the Clock.
Mr Bacon said, I am, Mr. Speaker, to tender unto this House the fruit of the Committees Labour which tends to the Comfort of the Realm, I mean the Merchant, which if it quail or fall into a Consumption, the State cannot choose but shortly be sick of that disease. It is inclining already. A certainty of Gain is that which this Law provides for, and by policy of Assurance the safety of Goods assured unto the Merchants. This is the Loadstone that draws him on to adventure, and to stretch even the very punctilio of his Credit. The Committees have drawn a new Bill far differing from the old; the first limited power to the Chancery, this to certain Commissioners by way of Oyer and Terminer; The first that it should only be there, this that only upon appeal from the Commissioners it should be there finally arbitrated. But left it may be thought for vexation, the Party Appellant must lay it in deposito, &c. and if tryed against him, to pay double Costs and Damages. We thought this course fittest for two reasons; First because a Suit in Chancery is too long a course, and the Merchant cannot endure delays; Secondly, because our Courts have not the knowledge of their Terms, neither can they tell what to say upon their Causes which be secret in their Science, proceeding out of their experience. I refer the Bill both old and new to your considerations, wishing good success therein both for the comfort of the Merchants and performance of our duties. The Act is Intituled.
Sir Edward Hobbie said, It was the good pleasure of this House to refer the consideration of an Information exhibited against a Member of this House one of the Burgesses for the Town of Leicester, viz. Mr. Belgrave, the scope and purpose of which Information pretendeth an abuse to be done to the High Court. The Gentleman himself was at the Committee, and did acknowledge the substance of the suggestion, but denied the circumstance. Some of the Committees censured it to be an enormous fault to invest himself (for so the words of the Information are) in a blue Coat, but others were of a contrary opinion, because they were satisfied upon allegations alledged that it was done ad redimendam vexationem which had been offered to him, and so he thought to right himself these wayes. Besides, I am to inform the House, that this Information was put in Sedente curiâ, and therefore thought by the Committees to be some disgrace to the same. And because this Gentleman should not take benefit of this Pardon, therefore the Information (as I said) is now put in Sedente Curiâ, which I wish the House to note. And because he should be debar'd of remedy against the party, he hath therefore caused the same to be exhibited in Mr Attorney Generals name. May it please the House, because he desireth to be heard, and being now here, that be may speak himself, in that he told the Committees he had some special matter to deliver unto you; and if he shall be found culpable, he would most willingly abide your censures. But because other Statutes were to be read of importance, this was refer'd over till some other time. Vide December 17th Postea.
Mr Bacon said, There were never yet any more than two Articuli; the one, Articuli super Chartas, when the Sword stood in the Commons hands; the other Articuli Cleri, when the Clergy of the Land bare sway, and that done upon deliberation and grave advice. I beseech you remember these are done by Judges and privately perhaps in a Chamber, and shall we presently without scanning or view, Enact them? it besits not the gravity of this House. And so after a long Speech dasht it.
After sundry Motions and Arguments made against An Act made 39 Reginæ Eliz. touching Lands given to charitable uses, it was upon the question Ordered, that the said Act should be repealed. And upon another question (whether the said Act should be repealed in the particular new Bill exhibited this Session of Parliament, or else in the general Bill touching repeal of Statutes, it was agreed by the House that it should be repealed in the general Bill of Repeal of Statutes.
Upon a Motion made by Mr Sollicitor for a Conference to be had with the Lords in the Bill that passed with their Lordships and hath been twice read in this House, Intituled An Act for the reuniting of Eye and Dunsden to the Mannor of Sunning; It is appointed that Mr Comptroller of the Exchequer, Mr Sollicitor and others do meet to Morrow with the Lords at eight of the Clock in the Morning touching the same Conference.
On Tuesday the 8th day of December the Bill touching Watermen on the River of Thames was read the second time and committed unto the Knights and Citizens for London, Sir George Moore, Sir John Lewson and others, who were appointed to meet this Afternoon in the Exchequer Court at two of the Clock.
Mr Winch one of the Committees in the Bill touching Theophilus Adams (who were appointed on Saturday the 5th day of this instant December foregoing) brought in the Bill amended in some parts by the Committees.
Mr John Harris made Report of the meeting of the Committees in the Bill touching abuses in Sheriffs and other Officers in not executing Proclamations (who were appointed on Friday the 4th day of this instant December foregoing) and delivered in the Bill not altered or amended in any point.
Mr Simnell moved this House for some speedy consideration to be had to restrain the transportation of Iron Ordance. Whereupon the Bill Intituled An Act prohibiting transportation of Iron Ordance beyond the Seas was read the second time; but before it was committed, there passed many Speeches and Arguments touching it in the House, being of very great moment.
Sir Edward Hobbie said, I may resemble this to a saying of a Gentleman who told a story of a skilful Painter that painted a Tree in the Sea so lively, &c. And the Judgment was, O valde bene, sed hic non erat locus: So I say, this Bill is an Excellent Bill, the matter foul, the request and remedy good and honest, but this is not our mean of redress. Her Majesty in the late Proclamation took notice thereof, and no doubt she will redress it. And for us now to enter again on bringing or allowing Acts against Monopolies, is to refuse her Majesties gracious favour, and cleave to our own affections. I think therefore if we deal therein, Petition will be our only course. This is a matter of Prerogative, and this is no place.
Mr Fettiplace said, I know her Majesty receiveth Yearly by Custom for the transportation of these Ordnance three thousand pound. There be four kinds of these Ordance now usually transported; The first a Falkon of the least weight and bore; the second a Minion, a little heavier and bigger; the third a Sacre, somewhat greater; the fourth a Demi-Culverin being the greatest. Now Mr Speaker, they which transport Ordnance do transport in this manner; If it be a Falkon, she shall have the weight of a Minion, and so if a Sacre the weight of a DemiCulverin: the reason hereof is, because when they are brought beyond the Seas they will new bore them to a greater size, as the Sacre to the Demi-Culverin bore; Besides, Mr Speaker, eight Tun of Iron Ordnance will make five Tun of good Iron. And it is now grown so common, that if you would send Merchandize beyond the Seas in Strangers Bottoms, they will not carry it; unless you will ballast their Ships and load them with some Ordance. The Ordnance be carried to Callais, Embden, Lubeck, Rochell, Brest, St John de Luce, and other places, and these be Consederates with Spain and Friends with Dunkirk, so that in helping them we do not only help our Friends, but succour the Spaniards their Friends and our Enemies. If the Queen would forbid the transportation of Ordnance but for seven Years, it would breed such a scarcity to the Spaniard, that we might have him even where we would: Some (no doubt) the Sea would devour, some would be taken, and the store which he now hath, scattered, and thereby his Force weakened. They have so much Iron in Spain out of England, that they do ordinarily sell a hundred weight of Iron Ordnance for seven Duckets and a half Spanish. And if the Spaniard do make it a Capital matter but to transport a Horse or a Gennet, much more ought we to have a special care herein, when we shall Arm even our own Enemies against our selves. I think therefore to proceed by way of a Bill would favour of curbing her Majesties Prerogative. But to proceed by way of Petition, it is a safe course and pleasing, and we ought the rather to be induced thereto, because already we have found it successful.
Mr Brown said, There is a Law already in the point, and that is in the thirty third Year of Henry the Eighth Cap. 7. and in the second of Edward the Sixth Cap. 37. which prohibits the transportation of Gun-Metal. And although Guns were not then made of Iron, yet now they are, and therefore perhaps you will say it is out of the Statute. But it was lately adjudged in Worlingtons and Simpsons Case to be clearly within the very Letter of that Law. And I am sure Guns be made of Gun-Metal, and whosoever transporteth Guns, transporteth Gun-Metal; and it is within the danger of that Law. But that which I would move is only this, that we might be Petitioners to her Majesty to revoke that Patent, and then Currat Lex, &c.
Sir Walter Raleigh said, I am sure heretofore one Ship of her Majesties was able to beat ten Spaniards; but now by reason of our own Ordnance we are hardly matcht one to one. And if the Low Countries should either be subdued by the Spaniard, or yield unto him upon a Conditional Peace, or shall join in Amity with the French as we see them daily inclining, I say there is nothing doth so much threaten the conquest of the Kingdom as the transportation of Ordnance. And therefore I think it a good and speedy course to proceed by way of Petition, left we be cut off from our desires, either by the Upper House, or before by the shortness and sudden ending of the Parliament.
Mr Carey said, We take it for an use in the House, that when any great or weighty matter or Bill is here handled, we streight say it toucheth the Prerogative and must not be medled withal; And so we that come to do our Countries good, bereave them of that good help we may justly Administer. Mr Speaker, Qui vadit planè, vadit sanè; Let us lay down our griefs in the Preamble of our Bill, and make it by way of Petition; And I doubt not but her Majesty being truly informed of it, will give her Royal Assent.
Mr Secretary Herbert said, The making of Armamentaria is a Regality belonging only to the power of the King and the Crown of England, and therefore no man can either cast or transport without Licence. It stood perhaps with the Policy of former times to suffer transportation, but as the times alter, so doth the Government. And we doubt it is now very hurtful and prejudicial to the State; and therefore I am of opinion, that it is very fit this transportation should be stayed; and I concur only with them which would have it by way of Petition, and not by Bill.
Mr William Hackwell of Lincolns-Inn said, I know the Authority of the Worthy Counsellor that last spake will incline you to yield to this Objection; Yet notwithstanding I beseech you suppose him to be a man of my Condition, or me to be a man of his sort, so I doubt not but our persons being equalized, the matter will soon be decided. Where he faith, transportation is necessary to aid our Friends and retain their Alliance; I Answer, That it is the subtilty and covetousness of our Friends, who finding the inestimable gain and treasure they have by Ordnance brought from us, do not only desire them for gain, but also to gain to themselves Consederates, by which means succouring our Friends we aid our Enemies: For look whatsoever we give them, we deduct from our selves. Now let us stop this transportation, and that greatly weakens their Forces, by which means they will never be able to encounter us hand to hand. Our Ordnance (this pretious Jewel of our Realm, worth even all we have) is as familiarly sold in the Countries of our Consederates as any thing within this Land; but being stopt, they must be fain to take supply from their Ports to their Ships, from their Ships to the Field, &c.
Sir Francis Hastings said, How swiftly and sweetly her Majesty apprehends our late griefs, I think there is no Subject but knoweth. For us then to deal in a matter so highly touching her Prerogative, we should give her Majesty just cause to deny our Proceedings by Bill. I think therefore by laying open our griefs in a Petition, it will move the heart of her Majesty as much, being a Case of this consequence, as our first Motion by Mr Speaker hath done. And therefore I am of Opinion there is no way but this way.
Sir George Moore said, It is in vain to dispute of the matter when the manner is only in question; and as vain to lose the matter by overlong dispute of the manner. The late experience of her Majesties Love and Clemency towards us, and of her Care over us striketh such an awful regard into my heart, that I wholly dislike this proceeding by Bill, and only do approve our former Motion by way of Petition.
Mr Hyde said, Mr Speaker, It is doubted by some that this Bill will not pass by reason of the sudden ending of the Parliament; for that, I think if we give not too much stop to private Bills, this Bill would quickly pass. And I see no reason but we may well proceed by Bill, and not touch her Majesties Prerogative; for her Majesty is not more careful and watchful of her Prerogative than the noble Princes of Famous Memory King Henry the Eight her Father, and King Edward the Sixth her Brother were. Then there was no doubt or mention of the Prerogative: And therefore I think our surest and foundest course is by way of Bill, &c.
Mr Comptroller said, I wish we should deal in such manner as we may have our desire; and that I think, we shall sooner obtain in speaking unto the Queen by way of Petition, than in proceeding by way of Bill and Contestation. We must note that her Self and her Progenitors will not be forced: And I do not hold this course by way of Bill either to stand with respect or duty.
Mr Swale of the Middle-Temple said, I would but move thus much to the House, if we let slip this Law, and proceed by way of Petition, then is there no Law to prohibit, but the Law of 33 Hen. 8. and 2d of Edw. 6. And those Laws give so small a remedy, that it is no recompence to the loss of the thing.
Mr Serjeant Harris said, It hath been thought that the former Statutes do not stretch to Ordnance made of Iron; But may it please the House to commit the Bill, there shall be shewed to the Committees four or five Precedents and late Judgments, that Iron Guns come within this Law.
So the Bill was committed to all the Privy Council, and all the Queens Learned Councel being of this House, Sir Walter Raleigh, the Knights and Citizens of London, Sir Francis Hastings, Mr Grevill, Sir Robert Wroth, Sir Robert Mansell, Sir Richard Knightley, Sir George Moore and divers others, who were appointed to meet in this House at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
Mr Belgrave said, Mr. Speaker, Modesty forbids me to speak in my own Case that so nearly concerneth me, but necessity urgeth me to appeal to this High Court. True it is, there was an Information exhibited against me in the Star-Chamber by an Honourable Person of the Upper House (the Earl of Huntington) in the name of Mr. Attorney General, for a Misdemeanor committed to this High Court; the substance of that Information I confess, yet I am to be an humble Suitor unto this House, whether an Information is to be exhibited (this House sitting) against any Member thereof. And for my own part I do submit my self to abide such Censure as this House shall in their Wisdoms think convenient.
Sir George Moore said, viewing the Information, I find the words to be against the High Court of Parliament, which is as well the Upper House as this House; and therefore I wish there might be a Conference with the Lords herein. Now this House is but part, and a Member of the Parliament, and therefore we solely cannot proceed.
Mr. Serjeant Harris said, In the 36th of Hen. 8. when Ferris Case was, who was a Member of this House, did not we proceed without any Conference with the Lords? Here might be libera suffragia, and no man of this House to be chosen by any Friends or Mediation of any great Man, neither ought we to be tyed by any Blue Coat in the World. But as our Persons are Priviledged, so should our Speeches be; And therefore I see no reason to confer with the Lords when we may proceed our selves.
Sir Edward Hobbie said, If the Case were but plain of it self, I should be of the Gentlemans mind that last spake: but I am given to understand, and also desire so to inform the House, that this Information was put into the StarChamber by some kind of Order from the Lords, and therefore very convenient a Conference should be had.
Sir Francis Hastings said (who was Brother to the Earl of Huntington) To enter into consideration of this Cause by Report (and otherwise I cannot) I know no man but respecteth the Honourable Person himself, and for this Gentleman (Mr. Belgrave) I ever took him, and so do, to be a man of very good Carriage: To condemn him, I do not mean: but I humbly pray that a course for his Honour may be taken, and the matter so handled, that the Honour of the Person may be saved, the Gentleman freed from further offence, and this Cause ended with good Conclusion. And I protest I am not privy to the Prosecution.
Mr. Tate said, It is not good to utter things suddenly in great matters. Our dispute may seem to have this end, either to incur the dangers of our Priviledge by not regarding this Cause, or to pry too near into her Majesties Prerogative by examining Informations exhibited into the Star-Chamber. Wherefore I think we ought to be Petitioners, (Nota verbum Petitioners) or at least to shew our griefs to the Lords; and if by any Order from them (as was alledged) this Information was put in, methinks in reason a Conference were good to examine the Cause, and inform this House truly thereof.
Mr. Skipwith the Pentioner said, If I knew or did think that any wrong were offered to the Earl of Huntington, I would rather be a Petitioner for this Gentleman to him, than I would be a Protector of him against him. I knew Mr. Belgrave writ his Letter to my Lord, and that it pleased his Honour to Answer him; and that he offered to follow his Honour in that sort as is fitting for a Gentleman of his worth, and rather his Honour than any man in England. This I take it may satisfie the House for Answer to the first part of the Information, which containeth a dishonour offered to the Earl. For the second, which is deceiving of the Burgesses, I do Answer this House, They were both willing and worthy to be deceived. I know they had given their Voices, and desired Mr Belgrave to take it. For the wrong to this Court, I hope this Court hath wisdom enough to right it self without any course to be taken in the Star-Chamber: yet by your favour, I may say thus much, that if we should punish him for coming indirectly into this place, we should punish three parts of this House; for none ought to be chosen but those that be resident, and sworn Burgesses of the Town.
Sir Robert Wroth said, This matter needs not so much dispute. There is a Precedent in this House to this point; in the last Year of Queen Mary, between Pleddall and Pleddall. It pleased the Lords of the Star-Chamber, sedente Parliamento, to bind the one at the Suit of the other to appear twelve dayes after the Parliament; and this adjudged to be an infringement of the Liberties.
Mr Davies said, The Information savours more of wit than malice; And therefore I think, upon Conference with the Lords the matter may be brought to good end. I therefore humbly pray it may be put to the question, and that the Bill may be sent for out of the Star-Chamber.
Mr Carey said, I take it, Mr Speaker, the course hath been, that if the House be desirous to see any Record, you (Mr. Speaker) should send a Warrant to the Lord Keeper to grant forth a Certiorari to have the Record. If by this means this Information be brought into this House, upon view thereof perhaps this matter of dispute would take end.
Sir Francis Hastings offered to speak again in this matter; But Mr. Bacon interrupted him, and told him it was against the course. To which he Answered, he was old enough to know when and how often to speak. To which Mr. Bacon replyed, it was no matter, but he needed not to be so hot in an ill cause. To which Sir Francis replyed, in several matters of debate a man may speak often. So, I take it, is the Order. He (pointing to Mr. Bacon) talk of Heat: He tell you, If I be so hot as he was Yesterday, then put me out of the House. The only thing that I would say is this, I wish a Conference may be had with the Lords, because the matter may be brought to some Friendly end; for God knows what may lie in the Deck till after the Parliament: And I suspect it the more, because the Information and no Process issued forth.
All the Privy Council being Members of this House, Sir Walter Raleigh, Sir Francis Hastings, Mr. Fulke Grevill, the Masters of Request, Sir Edward Hobbie, Sir Robert Wroth, Sir Francis Darcie, Sir George Moore, Sir John Grey, Mr. Barrington, Mr. Tate, Mr. Martin and Mr. Skipwith, to meet upon Thursday next at eight of the Clock in the Morning.
Mr. Speaker said, I am to certify you from the Lords of a great disorder committed by the Pages and Servants as well of the Lords themselves, as of your Servants and Attendants, so that not only abuse is offered, but weapons and blood drawn. For remedy whereof the Lords have given strait Commandment that their Servants keep peaceable and quiet Order, and that neither their Pages, Attendants or Servants do stand upon the Stairs or nearer the House than the Stair foot. They desire that every Member of this House would do the like to their Servants, and so expresly to charge and command them. And I would move you that you would be pleased the Serjeant might go forth and signify so much from you unto the Company without.
On Wednesday the 9th day of December the Bill touching the Assurance of certain Mannors, &c. to Samuel Sandys and John Harries Gent. was committed unto Sir George Moore, Sir Stephen Soame, Mr Henry Mountague, Mr Tho. Cæsar, Mr Trevor, Mr Egeock, Mr Jo. Harries, the Kts and Citizens for Worcester and Mr. Pawle, who were appointed to meet in the Middle-Temple Hall at two of the Clock in the Afternoon of this present day.
The Bill for maintenance of Ships and encrease of Sea-faring men was read the second time and committed unto the Queens Learned Councel being of this House, Sir Walter Raleigh, Sir Robert Wroth, the Knights and Citizens for London, the Burgesses of all the Port Towns, Mr. Trevor and others, who were appointed to meet this Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber at two of the Clock; And the Bill and Committees names were delivered to Sir Walter Raleigh.
The Bill for the making and working of Woollen Cloths was read the second time, and committed unto the former Committees for Woollen Cloths (who were appointed to meet November 23. and on Wednesday the 18th day of November foregoing) and appointed now to meet to Morrow in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber at two of the Clock.
Mr Johnson said, In the time of Dearth when we made this Statute, it was not considered that the hand of God was upon us; And now Corn is cheap; if too cheap, the Husbandman is undone, whom we must provide for, for he is the Staple man of the Kingdom. And so after many Arguments he concluded the Statute to be repealed.
Mr. Bacon said, The old commendation of Italy by the Poet was, Potens viris at que ubere gleba; and it stands not with the policy of the State, that the wealth of the Kingdom should be ingrossed into a few Graziers hands. And if you will put in so many Provisoes as be desired, you will make it useless. The Husbandman is a strong and hardy man, the good footman, which is a chief observation of good Warriers, &c. So he concluded the Statute not to be repealed.
Sir Walter Raleigh said, I think this Law fit to be repealed; for many poor men are not able to find seed to sow so much as they are bound to plough, which they must do, or incur the Penalty of the Law. Besides, all Nations abound with Corn. France offered the Queen to serve Ireland with Corn for sixteen shillings a quarter, which is but two shillings the bushel; if we should sell it so here, the Ploughman would be beggered. The Low-Country man and the Hollander, which never soweth Corn, hath by his industry such plenty that they will serve other Nations. The Spaniard who often wanteth Corn, had we never so much plenty, will not be beholding to the English man for it, neither to the Low-Country men, nor to France, but will fetch it even of the very Barbarian. And therefore I think the best course is to set it at liberty, and leave every man free, which is the desire of a true English man.
Mr. Secretary Cecill said, I do not dwell in the Country, I am not acquainted with the Plough: But I think that whosoever doth not maintain the Plough, destroys this Kingdom. There were the last Parliament great Arguments in this point; and after a deliberate disputation, the passage of this Bill concluded. My Motion therefore shall be, that this Law may not be repealed, except former Laws may be in force and revived. Say that a Glut of Corn should be, have we not sufficient remedy by transportation, which is allowable by the Policy of all Nations? I cannot be induced or guided from this opinion upon Government of former Statutes; I am sure when Warrants go from the Council for levying of men in the Countries, and the Certificates be returned unto us again, we find the greatest part of them to be Ploughmen. And excepting Sir Thomas Moore's Utopia, or some such feigned Common-Wealth, you shall never find but the Ploughman is chiefly provided for: The neglect whereof will not only bring a general but a particular damage to every man. If in Edward the First his time a Law was made for the maintenance of the Fry of Fish, and in Henry the Sevenths time for preservation of the Eggs of WildFowl; shall we now throw away a Law of far more consequence and import? If we debar Tillage, we give scope to the Depopulator; And then if the poor being thrust out of their Houses go to dwell with others, straight we catch them with the Statute of Inmates; if they wander abroad, they are within the danger of the Statute of the Poor to be whipt. So by this means undo this Statute, and you indanger many thousands. Posterior dies discipulus prioris. If former times have made us wife to make a Law, let these latter times warn us to preserve so good a Law.
Mr Serlbie desired that the County of Northumberland might be exempted out of the Statute, because it was so high Scotland, and their Country was so infected with the Plague, that not only whole Families but even whole Villages have been swept away with that calamity, &c. And so he made a long Speech to that effect.
Mr Dodderidge of Councel with Mr Dormer who came with him spake and said, Mr Speaker, It pleased her Majesty to license Mr Dormer under her Letters Patents, with a Non obstante this Statute, to inclose three hundred Acres of ground; and he humbly prayeth the House to accept and admit of this Proviso for the saving of his Letters Patents; the rather for these reasons; First, In respect the ground inclosed is a small quantity; Secondly, The Country is apt for Pasture not for Tillage; Thirdly, The ground is a kind of a Marish Ground and too moist and soft and altogether unapt for Tillage; Fourthly, In that her Majesty hath granted her Letters Patents, and that they concern her Prerogative, that this House, &c. So he delivered the Proviso and Mr Dormer his Letters Patents, and went forth.
Mr Serjeant Harries said, Ubi non est ordo, ibi est confusio. Mr. Speaker, divers Gentlemen stand before the Door, which breeds a confused sound when the question is propounded. May it please every man to take his place, that is both a seemly and antient Custom. Which they all did accordingly.
Mr. Speaker said, I will put it to the question, Whether this Proviso shall be received. Whereupon it was twice put to the question, and the I, I, I. were the greater both the times, but the Noes would needs have the House divided. So the Door being set open and no man offering to go forth, Mr. Martin said:
Mr. Speaker, I have observed it, that ever this Parliament, the Noes upon division of the House have carried it. The reason whereof as I conceive is, because divers are loth to go forth for losing of their places, and many that cry I, will sit still with the No. I therefore do but move this unto the House, that all those that have given their I, I, would according to their Consciences go forth, and for my part (said he) I'le begin.
Sir Walter Raleigh rose up to Answer him; but Mr. Comptroller, Sir John Fortescue, and all the House seeing them, rose in a hurry to go forth, and did not hear him. Whereupon himself and Mr. Secretary, it seemed, being of the No's, took some displeasure, as may appear by the Speeches after.
Mr. Secretary Cecill said, I am glad to see the Parliament so full, which towards the end used to grow thin; And therefore I think it convenient we agree upon some good Orders. The Reputation of this House hath ever been religiously maintained by Order and Government, but now Error hath so crept in amongst us, that we know not what is Order and what is disorder. The Gentleman that last spake (meaning Mr. Martin) first brake Order; for after the question put and the House agreed to be divided, he spake perswadingly to draw those out of the House which perhaps meant it not. Besides, he laid an imputation upon the House, that according to their Consciences men would not so much as remove out of their place: But I think there is no man here so fantastical, that though they be for the Bill, yet for their places sake, they will not alter their rooms. For this House is a House of Gravity, Conscience and Religion. I think it therefore fit he should Answer this imputation at the Bar. We have all this Parliament been against Monopolies, now we our selves protect one: But I see that men which have desired to be popular without the House for speaking against Monopolies, do also labour to be private within. But that I regard not. This I know, that good sums of money have been offered for the furtherance of this Proviso; but now it is past. I would now move you, that because we have spent some superfluous time in this Division, and because the affairs of this Parliament cannot possibly be dispatcht so soon as the Parliament must end, because of the performance of that gift which we have given unto her Majesty, which is nothing if it come not in due time, therefore that the House would be pleased after this day to sit in the Afternoons, for we consume our time now in unnecessary disputations.
Mr. Comptroller said, I think that notwithstanding any thing that hath been last said, howsoever our Orders have been heretofore broken, yet the Gentleman that spake, Mr. Martin, brake no Order of this House by speaking, for the House favoured him with silence, and therefore admitted to him liberty of Speech. That hi Speech was neither perswasive or offered any imputation to this House, I neither perceive it nor conceive it so; for it was only a Caution to the House, that former Orders were broken, and therefore now to be amended. And surely for not removing out of places, I have heard fault found before this time, and therefore the Gentleman is not now to be taxed. That this should be a Monopoly I can see no reason, for it hath been agreed that her Majesty may dispense with any penal Law, and that's no Monopoly, no more is this. And I am not of his mind that so great sums have been offered, the quantity of Land being but little, and his cause both good and just. And I protest for my part, I neither knew nor have heard of any. For the last Motion, which was the best, to sit twice a day, I do concur with him, and will be ready as a Member of this House to give my Attendance.
Sir Walter Raleigh said, I thought I had deserved of the House to have been heard to speak as well as he that spake before the division of the House; And in that I offered to speak and was not heard, I had wrong. For him that last spake, he spake out of Honour and not out of Judgment. Notwithstanding, I think it a Monopoly, and the Speech to be both perswasion, and to lay a great imputation upon the House. And this is all I would have said before.
Whereupon, standing in his place he shewed the Cause of his Speech to have been only for the Order of the House, and not out of any perswasive meaning that he had; for he protested that he knew neither the man nor the matter.
On Thursday the 10th day of December the Bill touching Silk-Weavers, &c. was read the second time and committed unto the Knights and Citizens for London, the Citizens for York, Bristoll, Norwich and Canterbury, Mr. Barrington, Mr Johnson and others, who were appointed to meet this Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber.
Mr Francis Moore said, He thought the Bill a very idle and frivolous Bill, and injurious; for if a Man take a Wife, by the Custom she shall have the Moiety: but now if we make it go according to the Common Law, she shall have but the third part. So if the Father commit a Felony and be Hanged, the Son shall not lose his Inheritance because the Custom is, The Father to the Bough, the Son to the Plough; which at Common Law he shall lose.
Mr Serjeant Harris said, I think this Bill a very good Bill, for it defeats a Custom which was first devised as a punishment and plague unto the Country. For when the Conqueror came in, the reason of this Custom was to make a decay of the great Houses of the antient Britains. For if a Man of eight hundred pound per Annum had had eight Children, it must be divided into eight parts; And then if these also had Children, subdivided again usq; in non quantum: whereas if it had gone to one by the Common Law, it would still have flourished, &c.
Mr Bois among many reasons shewed, that it would in Kent be a great loss to the Queen of her Subsidy; for by reason of these Sub-divisions there were many ten pound men. And whosoever knows the State of our Country shall find more by under ten pound men than above come to the Queen. And now if these being divided in several hands should now go according to the Common Law, this would make the Queen a great loser.
Being put to the question, the No was the greater, yet the I, I, I. would needs go forth; and upon division it appeared the I, I, I. were sixty seven, and the No a hundred thirty eight, and so the Bill was rejected.
Mr Francis Moore offered a Proviso to the House, and shewed that he was of Councel, and standing Fee with the Corporation of Vintners in London: and shewed that they were an antient Corporation, and had ever used by force of divers Charters of Kings of this Realm to sell Wines; and now by this Bill all was inhibited: And therefore, &c. which was received.
Mr. Johnson said, If this Bill should pass, it would breed a great confusion of Government; for by this Law the Justices of the County might enter into the liberty of any Corporation, and license sale of Wine and Beer. Besides, he must be licensed by four Justices, perhaps there be not four Justices in a Corporation, admitting power were not given to the Foreign Justice. Now when these four Justices have enabled him by this Law, they have not power upon his misbehaviour to put him down, and so very insufficient and impossible to be mended.
Sir Robert Wroth said, The Bill is that no man shall sell, &c. but he must be allowed in the Quarter Sessions by four Justices, and what pain and charge this will be to a poor man to go with some of his Neighbours twenty or thirty Miles for a Licence, and what a monstrous trouble to all the Justices, I refer to your considerations, &c. and so the Bill was dashed, as is aforesaid.
Mr. Speaker shewed her Majesties Pleasure to be, that this House should proceed in all convenient speedy course of dispatching the businesses at this time sit to be dealt in, for that her Majesty purposeth shortly to end this present Session of Parliament.
Sir Edward Hobbie said, We attended the Lords this Morning touching the Information against Mr. Belgrave, and in the end concluded, That forasmuch as it concerned their Lordships as well as our Priviledges, they desired some time to consult, and will send us word of their resolutions. Vide December the 16th Wednesday ensuing.
Then the questions upon the continuance of Statutes were offered to be read, but the House called for the Bill of Ordnance; yet the Clerk fell to read the questions, but the House still cryed upon Ordnance.
At length Mr. Carey stood up and said, In the Roman Senate the Consul always appointed what should be read, what not; so may our Speaker, whose place is a Consuls place: if he err or do not his duty sitting to his place, we may remove him. And there have been Precedents. But to appoint what business shall be handled, in my opinion we cannot. At which Speech some hissed.
Mr. Wiseman said, I reverence Mr. Speaker in his place, but I take great difference between the old Roman Consuls and him. Ours is a Municipial Government, and we know our own Grievances better than Mr. Speaker: And therefore sit every man alternis vicibus should have those Acts called for he conceives most necessary. All said I, I, I.
Mr. Hackwell said, I wish nothing may be done but with consent, that breeds the best Concordance; my desire is, the Bill of Ordnance should be read. If you Mr. Speaker do not think so, I humbly pray it may be put to the question.
Mr. Martin and Mr. Francis Moore stood up, but Mr. Martin first, one would not yield to the other, and great calling there was, till at length Mr. Comptroller stood up and said, I am sorry to see this confusion in this House; it were better we used more silence, and kept better Order. Yesterday you Ordered the continuance of Statutes should be read; now in an humour you cry Ordnance, Ordnance. I pray you that which we first decree let us stick to, and not do and undo upon every idle Motion.
Mr. Secretary Cecill said, I will speak shortly, because it best becomes me; neither will I trouble your Patience long, because the time permits it not. It is a Maxim, præstat otiosum esse quàm nihil agere. I wish the Bill for continuance of Statutes may be read; and that agrees with the Precedent Order of this House, and more with the gravity thereof: yet because the spirit of contradiction may no more trouble us, I beseech you let the Bill of Ordnance be read, and that's the House desire.
After Dinner (the House now sitting as in the Forenoon) the Amendments in the Bill to confirm the Assurance of the Mannors or Farms of Sagebury alias Sadgbury to Samuel Sands Esq; and John Harris Gent. and their Heirs, were twice read, and the Bill was Ordered to be ingrossed.
Sir Edward Hobbie moved, that where one Bird a Servant of his hath been Arrested in London at the Suit of one Woolley, his said Servant might have the Priviledge of the House: Whereupon it is Ordered that the said Woolley and the Serjeant that made the Arrest be sent for by the Serjeant of this House to Answer unto this House for their said contempt.
The Proviso for the Fishmongers to be added to the Statute of continuances was twice read, and committed to the Committees for continuance of Statutes to be allowed or rejected as shall be further thought fit.
The Bill for continuance of Statutes committed to all the Queens Learned Council being Members of this House, Sir Walter Raleigh, Sir Francis Hastings, Sir Robert Wroth and others, who were appointed to meet in the Court of Wards at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
The Bill for the relief of the Poor was read the second time and committed unto Mr Comptroller, Sir Robert Wroth, Sir Francis Darcie, Mr. Francis Bacon, Mr. Lieutenant of the Tower and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow in the Afternoon at two of the Clock in the Court of Wards.
Mr Ireby made Report of the meeting of the Committees in the Bill for draining certain surrounded grounds in the County of Suffolk, (who were appointed on Saturday the 28th day of November foregoing) and shewed that the Committees have thought fit to draw a new Bill to that purpose, and so delivereth in the old and the new.
Mr. Winch moved, that according to the resolution of the Committee in the Bill against transportation of Iron Ordnance, the House should proceed both by Bill and also by Petition unto her Majesty; which being debated, It was resolved, that those of the Privy Council being Members of this House should move her Majesty in the name of this House in that behalf.
The New Bill against transportation of GunMetal, Ordnance and Iron Shot was read the second time, and committed unto all the Privy Council Members of this House, Sir Walter Raleigh, Sir Robert Wroth, Sir Francis Darcie and others, who were appointed to meet upon Saturday next in the Afternoon at two of the Clock in the Court of Wards.
On Friday the 11th day of December the Bill comprehending and containing the maintenance of good and profitable Arts and Trades for the Commonwealth was delivered by Mr. Johnson, (who was desired to put the same into the House by Mr. George Brook Brother to the Lord Cobham) the effect of it was, that every man which had or could invent any Art or Trade, should for his life monopolize the same to his own use, or he that could add to or refine the same should do the like.
Mr. Fettiplare shewed, That the Bill was unprofitable and not good for divers reasons. First it was too general, because it speaketh as well of Arts invented, as to be invented. Secondly, the Bill sheweth not that they will be profitable for the Commonwealth; whatsoever they be, this Bill alloweth. For divers Arts have been devised in London, that that shall be wrought with one man, which would not heretofore be done with forty: This is unprofitable, because it setteth not the poor and many hands on work. Thirdly, it will breed confusion; because if but a little addition be made by another, a new Licence is granted to this man; And now if to that addition another shall add, that will be in infinitum, and so confusion. Whereupon he concluded, that he for his part thought fit the Bill should be quash'd, and divers cried, Away with it.
Another said, I wish that the Bill might be read again and considered because we allowed of these kind of Patents once this Parliament, namely in the Licence for making Tinn by Mills out of the Old Rubbish in Cornwall, upon the motion of Sir Walter Raleigh; And this Bill desireth no more in effect. Next for the incertainty, upon the consideration of the Bill by some few Committees the same might be amended. Besides, he that hath invented any Art or Trade, it is reason he should have some priviledge, because it would be an incouragement to others, and Nemo nascitur Artifex. No man would come to that perfection upon the first knowledge of it, as being taught by the first Inventor for a season. Also the proposition of the Gentleman that last spake, did not hold in all Arts, that it is unprofitable that the work of many should be done by one; for it is profitable for the Commonwealth, if Water may be brought to ever mans House for ten shillings value, where it would not be done with ten pound cost, as by the Water-work device in London. So of Iron Mills the Low-Countries, and of the Corn Mills upon the Thames. So of shooting and charging of Ordnance and Fire-works and the like. And generally of all Arts, Trades and Sciences which cannot be done by Poor but by Persons judicious and of Skill, and those that have a more natural inclination to come to perfection in these things than every base Beggar. For his last proposition, I say that Non est confusio in certa scientia, &c.
So it was put to the question for to be read the second time; And all said No. But when the Speaker said, all those that will have the Bill read the second time say I, Sir Richard Knightly said No aloud; at which the House laughed, and not one said I, I.
Three Bills had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill touching the recovering of certain surrounded grounds in the County of Norfolk was read the third time, and passed upon the question.
The Bill that the Land of Edward Lucas Gentleman shall be lyable to the payment of certain Legacies, was read the second time, and committed unto Sir John Cutts, Sir John Cotton, Mr Attorney of the Wards and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow in the Afternoon in the Court of Wards at two of the Clock.
Two Bills also had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill for the Assurance of the Joynture of Rachell Wife of Edward Nevill of Birling in the County of Kent, was read the third time and passed upon the question.
Mr Serjeant Yelverton and Mr Dr Swale coming from their Lordships, declared that their Lordships are ready for Conference according to the former appointment in the Bill concerning Letters Patents; as also touching a Paper delivered unto their Lordships containing an Information against Mr Belgrave a Member of this House in the Court of Star-Chamber.
It is Ordered that the Copy of Information exhibited into the Star-Chamber against Mr Belgrave a Member of this House, which was sent down from the Lords unto this House this day, shall be forthwith examined with the Record, and amended where it shall differ, and be certified under the Clerks hand of the Star-Chamber to be a true Copy. Vide concerning this business of Mr Belgrave on Thursday the third day, Monday the 7th day, Tuesday the 8th day and on Thursday the 10th day of this instant December foregoing, as also on December the 16th Wednesday ensuing.
Two Bills also had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill for relief of Souldiers and Mariners was read the second time, and committed unto Mr Secretary Cecill, Sir Francis Hastings and others, who were appointed to meet at the time and place before appointed for relief of the poor.
Thus far of these foregoing passages out of the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons; Now follow some remembrances of that which was agitated at a certain Committee of both Houses in the Painted Chamber this Forenoon out of a Private Journal.
The Lords Committees (who were appointed to have Conference with the Committees of the House of Commons in the Bill touching Letters Patents, &c.) being set in the Painted Chamber, Mr. Secretary Cecill with the residue of the Committees of the said House repaired unto them, where Mr Secretary going to the Upper end of the Table spake to this effect That if their Lordships had already concluded what to do in the Bill for Patents, then they had no Commission to proceed; and if they had altered the Bill in any Point with Amendments, they also had no Commission: But if their Lordships had done neither, but only were desirous to be resolved of any doubt which they in their wisdoms conceived, and would willingly thereabout confer with them, they would most willingly accomplish their Lordships desire, for they had sufficient warrant from the House.
The Lord Buckhurst Lord Treasurer after a little whispering with the Lords together, answered, That he would not have us preoccupate their judgments with a Speech both strange, improper and preposterous, with other words, &c.
Mr Secretary said, He could not answer his Lordship nor the rest without Order from the other Committees; And therefore prayed they might confer together: which was granted. So they went forth into an outward room and there conferred what Speech or Answer to make; and so after they returned again, and Mr. Secretary said, My Lords, We of the Lower House are very sorry your Lordships should any way conceive otherwise than well of our Speech and good intent. Your Lordships termed our Speech (for so I may say, because I spake in the name and behalf of the Committees) strange, improper and preposterous. My Lords, I think it not strange, for it is not unknown of your Lordships that we be all Members of one Body, and as we cannot be without your Lordships, so your Lordships cannot be without us; And when we are desirous, it pleaseth your Lordships out of your favour to vouchsafe us a Conference; so when you be willing, it pleaseth us out of the desire we have to be observant, to yield thereunto: Neither have your Lordships been more forward to gratify us with your favours, than we of the Lower House have been willing to further your Honours desires with our best furtherance. And therefore my Lords, it is no strange thing to have a Conference, neither our Speech strange because it tended to draw us to some particular point of Conference. For the Epithet improper, I am to tell your Lordships, that I delivered no more than I was commanded, nor no less than I was required. And therefore by your Lordships favour, no Cause it should deserve the title of impropriety. And I take it, by your Lordships favour, it was not preposterous: for my Lords, the first matter we took should be handled, was the doubts which we imagined your Lordships had conceived of the Bill; and if your Lordships had ought else conceived, I thought fit to shew your Lordships that we then came without Commission. So my Lords, I hope I have made it appear, that the Speech was neither strange, improper nor preposterous. But we of the Lower House who be here Committees, do beseech your Lordships that you would not conceive otherwise of us than we deserve; And your Lordships shall find us ever ready in all dutiful Service as coadjuting Members of one United Body the House of Parliament. So after withdrawing of themselves a little from the Table, the Lords hummed and whispered, and at length calling us,
The Lord Treasurer said, The Lords were satisfied with our Answer, and very glad they found us so conformable; by which they doubted not but we should well agree for the Conference, whereby the Bill might have the better passage.
Mr Secretary Answered, That he was very glad their Lordships did conceive aright of them; And that the Committees, because they were many and would not be troublesome with multiplicity of Speech, had chosen for their Speakers to satisfie their Honours, Mr Bacon, Mr Serjeant Harris, Mr Francis Moore, Mr Henry Mountague, Mr Philipps and Mr Boice. So the Lords called Mr Attorney General for them, who having spoken a while on the one side, and been Answered by Serjeant Harris on the other side, the Conference or meeting of the said Committees brake up imperfectly, and was further deferr'd till the next Morning.
The Bill touching Policies of Assurances used amongst Merchants was read the second time, and committed unto Sir Walter Raleigh, Mr Doctor Cæsar, Sir Francis Bacon, Sir Stephen Soame and others; And the Bill was delivered to Sir Francis Bacon, who with the rest was appointed to meet to Morrow in the Afternoon in the Court of Wards at two of the Clock.
Upon Motion made by Serjeant Harris, that Anthony Curwin Servant Attendant upon William Huddleston Esq; a Member of this House, hath been Arrested into the Counter in the Poultrey in London, at the Suit of one Matthew a Chyrurgeon; It is Ordered, that the Serjeant that made the said Arrest and the said Matthew should be sent for to answer in this House for their said contempt, as appertaineth.
On Saturday the 12th day of December the Bill to avoid the stealing of Cattle was read the second time and committed unto Sir George Moore, Mr. Maynard, Mr. Brown and others, who were appointed to meet upon Tuesday next in the Middle-Temple Hall at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
Two Bills had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill for Confirmation of the Mannor of Sagebury aliàs Sadgbury unto John Harris and Samuel Sandys Gent. was read the third time and passed upon the question.
It was moved by Sir George Moore and some others, that the Bill might be let slip, and the Cause refer'd to the Lord Mayor of London, because it concerned a Controversie between the Painters and Plaisterers of London.
To which Mr Davies Answered, That the last Parliament this Bill should have past this House, but it was refer'd as is now desired, and Bonds made by the Plaisteres for performance of the Orders to be set down by the Lord Mayor; yet all will do no good: Wherefore, Mr Speaker, I think it good to be put to the question.
Sir Stephen Soame desired that my Lord Mayor might not be troubled with them, &c. but that it might be put to the question, and it seemed likely to go against the Painters. But Mr Heyward Townsend as it was putting to the question stood up, and shewed, that in the Statute of 25 Ed. 3. Cap. 3. Plaisterers were not then so called but Dawbers and Mudwall-Makers, who had for their Wages by the day three pence, and their Knave three half pence (for so was his Labourer called) they so continued till King Henry the Sevenths time, who brought into England with him out of France certain men that used Plaister of Paris about the Kings Sieling and Walls, whose Statute Labourers these Dawbers were. These Statute Labourers learned in short time the use of Plaister of Paris, and did it for the King, who increased to be many: then suing to the King for his Favour to Incorporate them, he did fulfil their desire, Incorporating them by the name of Gipsarium, which was for Clay and Mud, aliàs Morter-Makers, An. 16 Hen. 7. being no Freemen for all their Corporation, they obtained the Kings Letters in their favour to Sir William Remmington the Lord Mayor of London and the Aldermen, to allow them Freemen, which was granted; at what time came in four of them paying ten shillings a piece for their Freedoms: And in three years after that manner came in to the number of twenty, but they paid four pound a piece for their Freedom. They renewed their Patent in King Henry the Eighths time, and called themselves Plaisterers aliàs Morter-Makers, for the use of Loam and Lyme. They made an humble Petition and Supplication after this to Sir John Munday then Lord Mayor and to the Aldermen, to grant them Ordinances for the better Rule and Government of their Company, in these words, viz. We the good Folks of Plaisterers in London of Plaister and Loam of the said City, for redress of certain abuses of Lath-Plaister and Loam wrought in the said Craft, &c. and had allowed unto them search for their Company for the use of Lath, Loam and Lyme. In all their Corporations at no time had they the word Colours, neither yet in their Ordinances. For all they were incorporated by the name of Plaisterers, yet in all King Henry the Eighths time they were called Dawbers, as appears in the Accompts of the Chamber of London, paid to such and such Dawbers for so many days so much, and to their Labourers so much. The Plaisterers never laid any Colour upon any of the Kings Houses, nor in the Sheriffs of London, but this Year. They wore no Livery or Cloathing in the seventeenth of King Henry the Eighth. They have been suffered to lay Alehouse Colours as red Lead and Oaker with such like, and now intrude themselves to all Colours; Thus they take not only their own work but Painting also, and leave nothing to do for the Painter. Painters and Stainers were two several Companies in King Edward the Thirds time; one for Painting of Posts and all Timber-Work, and the other for Staining and Painting of Cloth of great continuance. The two several Companies were joined both into one by their own consents, and by the consents of the Lord Mayor and Court of Aldermen of the City the nineteenth year of King Edward the Fourth. The Painters had Orders allowed them for the use of Oyl and Colours, especially named in King Henry the Fourths time, from the Lord Mayor and City. Painters cannot work without Colours, their only mixture being Oyl and Size, which the Plaisterers do now usurp and intrude into. Painters have her Majesties Letters Patents dated the twenty fourth year of Elizabeth, forbidding any Artificer the use of Colours and Oyl or Size, after the manner of Painting, but only such as have been or shall be Apprentice, namely with a Painter, seven years at the least. And where the Plaisterers object, that the Painters do abridge other Companies of their Colours, that is most apparently untrue; for Goldsmiths do use Colours, but not after the manner of Painting, and work without Oyl or size. Book Binders use Colours, but neither with Oyl or Size. So Cutlers use Varnishing and Gilding; So Glaziers use Colours with nealing in the Oven; Bricklayers use Colours, but neither with Oyl or Size; And Joiners do use Varnish. Workmanship and Skill is the gift of God, and not one in ten proveth a Workman; yet it is requisite, that all such as have been brought up all the dayes of their Life in a Trade, and cannot attain to the Excellency of Skill that is required, should live by the baser part of their Science, when they cannot attain the better, which is in working in Oyl and Size those Flats, Posts and Windows, &c. If Plaisterers may be suffered to Paint, Workmanship in Painting will decay; for no Workman will keep an Apprentice four or five years to practise and not able to get one penny, unless he might now get something towards his Meat and Drink in laying of Oyl Colours, as on Posts. And experience teacheth us now, that among the number of three hundred there are not twelve sufficient Workmen to be found in London. Yet one of these (such was his Poverty) was fain for his relief to Wife and Children to wear upon the Lord Mayors Day a Blue Gown and red Cap, and to carry a Torch (he being fifty years old.) One man will lay and paint more Colours in a day than ten men can grind, which grinding of Colours shall be the relief of two or three hundred poor men, that cannot attain Workmanship, and that is taken away by Plaisterers, and the poor men both Painters, their Wives and Children go a begging for want of work. Besides, Painting of Cloths is decayed, and not an hundred Yards of new Painted Cloth made in a Year here by reason of so much Painted Flanders pieces brought from thence; so as the Painters have nothing to live on, but laying of Oyl Colours on Posts, Windows, &c. It is a curious Art and requireth a good Eye, and a stedfast Hand, which the infirmity of Age decayeth quickly, and then Painters beg. Plaisterers take money from the Highest Personages to the meanest Cottagers, whose Walls must needs be made: Painters take money but of a few for their delight. Painters give to the Plaisterers six kind of Colours commonly used (as the Bill importeth) to be laid with Size and not with Oyl; and for every twenty shillings earned with Oyl Colours, there is ten pound earned with Size Colours, being every mans money. These Walls thus curiously painted in former Ages, the Arms so Artificially drawn, the Imagry so perfectly done, do witness our Forefathers care in cherishing this Art of Painting, &c. So I think the Bill very reasonable and fit to pass; And thereupon the Bill passed upon the question.
Two Bills had each of them one reading; of which the first touching garbling of Spices was read the third time, and passed upon the question and division of the House, with the difference of fifty four Voices, viz. with the Yea ninety five, with the No forty one.
Mr Attorney General and Mr Doctor Carew coming from the Lords unto this House do signifie, that their Lordships are ready for Conference with the Committees of this House appointed to have Conference with their said Lordships in the Bill touching Confirmation of Grants and Letters Patents, &c.
The Bill touching the Prisoners in Ludgate was read the second time, and committed unto all the Queens Learned Councel being of this House, the Master of Requests, Sir Stephen Soame, Mr Philips and others, who were appointed to meet this Afternoon at the Committee Chamber of this House at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.
The Bill to redress misimployment of Lands, Goods and Stocks of money heretofore given to certain charitable uses, was upon the second reading committed to the former Committees (who were appointed on Saturday the 28th day of November foregoing) and unto Sir Edward Stanhop, Mr Maynard, Mr Harris and others, who were appointed to meet in the Committee Chamber of this House at two of the Clock this Afternoon.
Sir Francis Darcie a Committee in the Bill touching relief of Maimed Souldiers and Mariners, declared the Addition of some few words unto the same by the Committees, viz. [do not exceed or be under] and in another place these words, viz. [and be under] which being twice read the Bill was Ordered to be ingrossed.
The Bill touching the establishing of the remainder of certain Lands unto Kettlebie was read the second time and committed unto Mr Comptroller, Mr Secretary Cecill and others, who were appointed to meet in the Court of Wards upon Monday next in the Morning at eight of the Clock.
Mr Bond said, This Bill as it is now ingrossed, much differeth from the first which was here presented, which I the better like of. Notwithstanding, in my opinion, the Bill is altogether needless, and divers reasons move me to think it both inconvenient and unnecessary. Every evil in a State is not to be met with in a Law; and as it is in natural, so it is in politick Bodies, that sometimes the remedy is worse than the disease. And therefore particular Laws against particular offences induce novelty, and in novelty contempt. Hippodamus Milesius offered to reward any man bountifully which could invent a good and new Law: But Aristotle condemneth that Policy, and the best Orator Demosthenes condemneth that State which will admit of any Innovation, although it be good in it self. If this Bill passeth, there will be two imputations happen to the State, which Wisdom wills us both to foresee and shun: The first an Infamy to our Ministers, that our Adversaries may say, this is the fruit of your labour to have Preached away your Audience out of the Church; The second no less but rather a greater imputation upon our Archbishops and other Ecclesiastical Governours, that they be either remiss in their Authority, or else that their Prerogative hath not so much power as a twelve peny Fine. And doubtless these imputations cannot be avoided, if we give the Jesuits such head, scope and comfort as they in their Writings do greedily apprehend. I do, Mr Speaker, conceive great difference betwixt primo Eliz. when time was, and this Law of 44 Eliz. as now it is. Then the People were newly taken from Massing and Superstition; Now they are planted in truth, and rooted in Religion. The light did then scarce appear unto them, which now shineth with glorious Beams upon our Teachers and Ecclesiastical Judges. And as the malice of the Adversary was only against them in the beginning, so is it stretcht forth to put down, and flameth like a consuming Fire to devour our Doctrine. These reasons aforesaid were the Ground-work of Osorius's Foundation in his Epistle unto her Majesty, to give advantage to speak evil. I will give but a reason or two more and so an end. Suppose that a neglector of Church-Service comes to the Sessions there to be Examined, alledging an excuse; many businesses so concern the doer not to be known, that to speak truth would be his undoing, and to speak untruth would be a wound unto his Conscience; And to say his business, were a meer mockery; and to say an untruth, an apparent danger. If this Law may stand for a Law, methinks I foresee what breach of Charity will happen. Say there be forty in a Town absent, the ChurchWarden presents some and not others: It will be objected unto him, wherefore should I be presented and not he? why my Wife, my Son, my Servant, my Friend, not his, &c. Will not this be a great breach to Unity and Peace? Just prosecution will be infinitely cumbersome, and partial connivance subject to quarrel. Notwithstanding this Statute we leave power to the Ecclesiastical Judge whose course is to proceed to Excommunication, and so an Excommunicato capiendo must be had. This is as great a charge as the Indictment in the Statute of Primo. In this Statute a Witness or two must be brought to the Sessions, he must be presented to the Grand Jury and so Indicted; This will cost five shillings, a noble or ten shillings, which is as much as the charge in the first Statute. So because this Bill is slanderous to the Clergy, slanderous to the State, repugnant to Charity and Crambe recocta, I humbly pray it may receive the like entertainment the former Bill had, viz. to be rejected.
Sir Francis Hastings said, I shall speak upon great disadvantage; I perceive this Member of our House hath taken studied pains to disturb the passage of this Bill. To which I shall not so well answer, because I shall not so well carry away the particulars of this politick, but not Religious discourse. If it be Religion to be obedient at pleasure, if I could be Zealous to day, and cold to Morrow, I could subscribe to all that he hath said. We connot do a more acceptable thing to God or a more dutiful service to the State, than bring men to fear God. Religion and Policy may well stand together: But as that policy is most detestable which hath not Religion to warrant it, so is that Religion most happy which hath policy to back and maintain it. I know the Jesuits and Priests be out of square, and be at a Jarr amongst themselves: I pray God it be not to make a breach among us, who be yet in Unity. Wit well applyed is a profitable thing; but ill applied, dangerous, in whomsoever doth abuse it. There is no man of sense and Religion, but thinketh that be is far from Religion (pointing at Mr Bond) that made the Speech. First, he said it would be an imputation to our Ministers. That Speech was both absurd in Judgment and slanderous in uttering; as though by the Ministers of the word we were loth to hear of our Sins or reconcile our selves to God. The second, That it was an imputation on Archbishops, Bishops, &c. I am so far from blaming their Government, that I renounce that Position. I am very sorry, that the strength of their Authority stretcheth not so far as I could with it in this point. But methinks this Law should rather be a credit to the Ministry, that now we having gone to Church these forty three Years our selves, are so servent in Religion, that we desire also that others may do the like. I beseech you give me leave to wipe away a grievance, which it seems the Gentleman that last spake imputeth unto me. He hath made a Protestation, that he is no Papist: I appeal to you all if I said he was. And I say he is no Puritan if he be not a Papist; for if there be ever a Puritan in England, it is a Papist. I learned of Dr Humfrey who was sometimes my Tutor, a division of four forts of Puritans; First, The Catholick which holds that a man cannot sin after Baptism; Secondly, The Papist, which is such a Merit-monger, that he would not only save himself by his own Merits, but by the Merits of others also; A third fort are the Brownists or Family of Love, a Sect too well known in England, I would they had never so been; The fourth and last sort are your Evangelical Puritans, which insist wholly upon Scriptures as upon a sure ground; And of these I would we had many more than we now have.
It was shewed by Dr Bennet upon occasion of Speech of the multitude of Recusants, that there were thirteen hundred, nay fifteen hundred Recusants in Yorkshire, which he vouched upon his Credit were presented both in the Ecclesiastical Court and before the Council at York.
So after divers Speeches and Arguments it was put to the question, whether the Bill should be ingrossed, and the greater number could not be discerned. Whereupon Sir Robert Wroth shewed, that he had a Proviso ready ingrossed, the substance whereof was, That if any man came eight times a Year to the Church, and said the usual Divine-Service twice every Sunday and Holyday in his House, with his whole Family, that should be a sufficient dispensation. This was utterly misliked: yet divers which were desirous to overthrow the Bill went forth with the Proviso, because they would have it joined with the Bill to overthrow it. Whereupon the House was divided, and upon division it appeared thus, The I, I, I were a hundred twenty six, the No were eighty five. So the Proviso past. Then it was put to the Question for the Bill, but then divers reasons were shewed, Mr Bonds two reasons of prejudice to Ministers and the Clergy, and the danger by breach of Charity; That the Information was a thing contrary to Magna Charta, That there might be a Conviction without enquiry.
Sir Walter Raleigh shewed, that all the ChurchWardens of every Shire must come to the Assizes to give Information to the Grand Jury; say then there be a hundred and twenty Parishes in a Shire, there must now come extraordinary two hundred and forty Church-Wardens: And say that but two in a Parish offend in a quarter of a Year, that makes four hundred and eighty persons with the Offenders to appear; what great multitudes this will bring together, what quarrelling and danger may happen, besides giving Authority to a mean Church-Warden, how prejudicial this may be, &c. with divers other reasons against it. As also some Ambiguities and Equivocations therein; The Proviso newly added being a plain Toleration from coming to Church; and that the Parson could not present or constrain any if they said Service at home. So it was put to the question thrice together, and because the truth could not be discerned, the House was again divided, and the I, I, I went forth and were a hundred and five, and the Noes within a hundred and six. So they got it by one Voice, and the I, I, I lost; but then the I, I, I said they had Mr Speakers, which would make it even. And then it grew to a question, whether he had a Voice. Sir Edward Hobbie who was of the I, I, I side, said, that when her Majesty had given us leave to chuse our Speaker, she gave us leave to chuse one out of our own number and not a Stranger, a Citizen of London and a Member; and therefore he hath a Voice. To which it was answered by Sir Walter Raleigh, and confirmed by the Speaker himself, that he was foreclosed of his Voice by taking that place, which it had pleased them to impose upon him; and that he was to be indifferent for both Parties: And withal shewed, that by the Order of the House the Bill was lost.
Mr Bowyer, Secretary to the old Lord Treasurer Buckhurst, said, Mr Speaker, I think it not lost, for there hath been foul and great abuse offered in this matter. A Gentleman that would willingly go forth according to his Conscience, was pulled back: Though I much reverence my Masters of the Temple, and am bound to our Benchers of the Middle-Temple, yet if it will please the House and you Mr Speaker to command me to name him, I will. The greatest Voice said no, yet Mr Secretary Cecill willed him to name him, and he said, it was Mr Dale of the Middle-Temple.
Mr Comptroller (after silence) said, We have been often troubled by a Physician (meaning Mr Bond) and he hath been spoken against. He troubled us with Aristotle and other Books; if he had stayed there, it had been well: but I think we had need of Physicians to stay our Heads and cool our heats and humours, not fitting a Court of Parliament; for it is a most intolerable disorder. I think the offence is a hainous offence, both against God, and this Assembly. For the first, in that every man is to go according to his Conscience and not by compulsion; And for the other Gentleman Sir Walter Raleigh, that said he had often done the like, I think he may be ashamed of it; for large is his Conscience, if in a matter of so great consequence he will be drawn either forwards or backwards by the Sleeve; And I think it so hainous, that he deserves to Answer it at the Bar (meaning Mr Dale, but because Sir Walter Raleigh was last named, it was taken to be meant of him.)
Mr Secretary Cecill said, I am sorry to see this Disorder, and little do you know how for disorder the Parliament is taxed, I am sorry I cannot say slandered. I had hoped as this Parliament began gravely and with Judgment, so we should have ended modestly, and at least with discretion. I protest I have a Libel in my Pocket against the Proceedings of this Parliament. The offence which the Gentleman that last spake, spoke of, I confess is great and punishable; And this I with may be inflicted on him, that he whose Voice may be drawn either forwards or backwards by the Sleeve, like a Dog in a string, may be no more of this House; And I with for his Credits sake he would not. But that it should be so great to be called to the Bar, I see no reason, neither do I know why any in this House should speak so imperiously as to have a Gentleman of his place and quality (pointing to Sir Walter Raleigh) called to the Bar, I see no reason for it: For the matter it self, the Noes were a hundred and six, and the I, I, I a hundred and five, the Speaker hath no Voice; and though I am sorry to say it, yet I must needs confess lost it is, and farewel it.
Mr Doctor Carew and Mr Doctor Hone did bring from the Lords two Bills passed with their Lordships; of which the first was the Bill concerning Captains, Souldiers, Mariners and other the Queens Services in the Wars.
Mr Serjeant Yelverton and Mr Doctor Hone being come from the Lords do declare, that their Lordships do desire another Conference between the Committees of this House and the Committees of their Lordships, which they do appoint to be upon Monday next at the fore-appointed hour and place; And that the former Committees (who were appointed on Thursday the 12th day of November foregoing) or others whom this House shall thereunto appoint, may have Authority from the House to conclude and resolve upon the Bill lately passed from this House unto their Lordships, viz. the Bill for Confirmation of Grants and Letters Patents, &c. which was by the House Ordered and agreed unto accordingly.
On Monday the 14th day of December, Two Bills had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill touching Cosening Bankrupts was read the first time, and upon the question and division of the House Ordered not to be read any more, with the Yea thirty five, with the No forty five.
Two Bills also had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill for the draining of certain surrounded grounds, &c. had its second reading, and was delivered to the former Committees (who were appointed on Tuesday the first day of this instant December foregoing) to meet in the Exchequer Chamber this Afternoon at two of the Clock.
Mr Doctor Swale and Mr Coppin did bring from the Lords the two Bills formerly passed in this House, the one Intituled An Act touching Orders in the Exchequer with a Proviso added to the same by their Lordships likewife passed with the Lords, and another touching the Jointure of Lucie Countess of Bedford with certain Amendments and two Provisoes added.
Three Bills had each of them one reading; of which the first being the Bill for the Repeal of An Act made in the fourteenth Year of her Majesties Reign touching the reforming the length of Kerfies was read the second time, and committed unto Sir George Moore, Sir Edward Moore, Mr Kingsmell, Mr Popham, the Burgesses of Clothing Towns, and others, who were appointed to meet this Afternoon at two of the Clock in the Exchequer Court.
Mr Philipps, one of the Committees in the Bill against misimploying of Lands, Stocks and Stores given to Charitable Uses, brought in the Bill with some Amendments added by the Committees, of which he prayeth the reading.
The Proviso that came from the Lords in the Bill touching Orders in the Court of Exchequer was twice read, and committed presently to be confidered of by Mr Sollicitor and Mr Winch in the Committee Chamber of this House.
Mr Davies moved the House and shewed, that a Servant of Mr. Huddleston (Knight for Cumberland) being some twelve Months since hurt in the Hand, went unto one Matthews a Chirurgion by Fleet-Bridge, who for ten pounds undertook the Cure; the man gave him a Bill of ten pound for the said Cure, which he the said Matthews could not perform without leaving a great scar, and withal a little lameness in his hand: not withstanding he paid the Chirurgion eight pound. But upon what suggestion I know not, Matthews hath sued Mr. Huddleston's man for the whole ten pound and Arrested him upon an Execution into the Counter. The man told him he was Mr. Huddlestons Servant, and that his master was a Member of this House and a Knight of a Shire, and that he was thereby priviledged from Arrests, and wisht to be discharged: but Matthews and the Serjeant answered him, they cared not for his Master nor for the priviledge, and said that he was not priviledged from an Execution. And so being carried to the Counter, he told the like there to the Clerks, who affirmed likewise that priviledges could not extend to Executions, and therefore would not discharge him. And therefore I pray in the behalf of the Gentleman, that both Matthews and the Clerks and Serjeant may be sent for. And so they were Ordered to appear to Morrow in the Afternoon.
Two Bills had each of them their third reading; of which the second being the Bill for the confirming the Authority and Government of the Mayor, Sheriffs and Aldermen of London within St Katherin's Christ-Church, was upon the question of Amendments in the Bill and the division of the House dashed with the difference of forty three voices, viz. with the Yea forty nine, and with the No eighty six.
Mr. Wingfield, a Committee in the Bill touching the draining of surrounded Grounds in the Counties of Cambridge, Huntington, Northampton, Suffolk and Norfolk, &c. brought in the Bill with some Amendments and a Proviso added by the Committees, and prayed the reading thereof.
The Bill for the more peaceable Government of the Counties of Cumberland, Northumberland and Westmerland with the Bishoprick of Durham was read the second time, and committed unto all the Privy Council being Members of this House, the Knights of Cumberland, Northumberland and Westmerland, and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow in the Morning in the Committee Chamber of this House.
On Tuesday the 15th day of December, Four Bills had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill for avoiding of idleness and setting the Poor on work, was read the second time, and upon the question for committing or ingrossing dashed.
Mr. Dr. Stanhop and Mr. Dr. Hone did bring from the Lords a Bill that passed in this House intituled An Act for the making of an Harbour or Key on the North parts of Devon in the River of Severn, for the safeguard of men and Shipping, &c. with the Amendment of one word to be put out. viz. the word Free.
Two Bills also had each of them one reading; of which the last being the Bill for the relief of Theophilus Adams, &c. was read the third time, and after Councel heard on all parts, dashed upon the question.
Sir Edward Hobbie a Committee in the Bill touching Kettlebie and Kettlebie, shewed the travel of the Committees in framing of a new Bill by consent of Parties, and so delivered in both the old and new.
The Bill for ending and appeasing of all Controversies, matters and debates between Francis Kettlebie on the one part, and Andrew Kettlebie and Jane his Wife of the other part, was twice read, and committed unto Mr Sollicitor, Sir Edward Hobbie, Sir Francis Hastings, Sir Edward Stafford and others, who were appointed to meet and consider presently in the Committee Chamber of this House.
After many Arguments and Speeches had for admittance of a Proviso for Mr. Dormer in the Bill of Continuance of Statutes, it was upon the question and division of the House dashed with the difference of thirty five Voices, viz. with the Yea a hundred and eleven, and with the No a hundred forty six.
Anthony Matthew a Chirurgeon being brought to the Bar, and charged by Mr. Speaker with his contempt against the Liberties and Priviledges of this House, and the Members of the same, in causing Anthony Curwin Servant Attendant upon Mr. Huddleston a Member of this House to be Arrested into the Counter in the Poultry in London, which Anthony Matthew being asked what he could alledge for his defence herein, Answered and affirmed that he did not know that the said Curwin did belong to any Member of this House, and he most humbly submitting himself unto the censure of this House, was after sundry Speeches therein had, discharged paying his Fees to the Serjeant and Clerk.
Mr Moore made Report of sundry meetings and Conferences had by the Committees of this House with the Lords Committees in the Bill touching Confirmation of Grants and Letters Patents, and shewed their Agreements with their said Lordships.
Two Bills lastly had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill for the better Government of the Counties of Cumberland, Northumberland, Westmerland and the Bishoprick of Durham, was read the third time and passed upon the question.
Eight Bills had each of them their third reading and passed upon the question, and were sent up to the Lords by Mr Secretary Cecill and others; of which the two last were, one for the true working of Woollen-Cloths, and the other for the necessary relief of Souldiers and Mariners.
Mr Comptroller, Sir Walter Raleigh, Mr Lieutenant of the Tower and others, were appointed to have Conference with the Lords touching some Amendments or Addition to be had in the Proviso sent from the Lords unto this House, to the Bill before passed in this House touching Orders to be kept in the Court of Exchequer.
Mr Attorney General and Mr. Doctor Stanhop did bring from the Lords a Bill before passed in this House, viz. touching Confirmation of Grants and Letters Patents, &c. And did declare that the Lords Committees and the Committees appointed by this House have most courteously had sundry Conferences together in the same as one entire body, and agreed upon some Amendments in the same.
The Bill touching Captains, Souldiers and Mariners, and other the Queens Services in the Wars, was read the second time, and upon the question and division of the House Ordered not to be committed, viz. with the Yea forty eight, with the No eighty one. And upon another question dashed.
On Thursday the 17th day of December, Two Bills of no great moment had each of them one reading; of which the first being the Bill touching Printers and Printing was read the second time, and committed unto the Knights and Citizens of London, Mr. Lieutenant of the Tower, Mr. Moore and others, who were appointed to meet to Morrow in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber at two of the Clock.
The Bill for the Explanation of the Statute of Limitation of prescription to Rent-Charges was read the second time and committed unto Mr. Serjeant Harris, Mr. Moore and others, who were appointed to meet upon Saturday next in the Afternoon in the Exchequer Chamber at two of the Clock.
The Bill with the Amendments for the Countess of Bedfords Jointure, and the Bill with the Proviso added by the Lords touching Orders in the Court of Exchequer were sent to the Lords by Sir Walter Raleigh and others.
The Bill touching Fines within antient Demesne was read the second time, and committed unto Sir Walter Raleigh, Mr. Serjeant Harris and others, who were appointed to meet this Afternoon in the Court of Wards at two of the Clock.
Sir Edward Hobbie moved, that such Members of this House as shall be sent from this House unto the Lords with the Bill for Confirmation of the Subsidy of the Clergy, may by direction of this House recommend unto their Lordships the Bill against transportation of Iron Ordnance, with request of their Lordships good furtherance to the passage of the same.
Sir Robert Wroth moved, that an Order may be set down how the Collection made in this House for relief of the poor may be distributed. Whereupon it is Ordered, that the Souldiers now remaining about the City of London shall be relieved out of the money Collected of the Members of this House in such sort as to the Officers thereunto appointed shall be thought fit.
The Officers appointed for the distribution of the Collection are Sir Robert Wroth, Mr.Fettiplace, Mr. Wade, Sir Francis Darcie, Mr. Trevor and Mr. Brown; And that they join with the Officers in like case appointed by the Lords.
Two Bills also had each of them one reading; of which the second being the Bill for Explanation of a certain branch of An Act made in the twenty eighth year of her Majesty touching Recusants, was read the second time, and committed, but no time or place appointed for the meeting.
Mr. Belgrave moved, That whereas an Information hath been Exhibited into the Court of Star-Chamber in the name of Mr. Attorney General against him, upon suggestion that he should offer abuse unto this House, humbly prayed that he may be Ordered and censured by this House, if it shall so fall out and seem fit unto this House upon further Examination to be had therein. Vide plus post Meridiem.
Mr. Serjeant Yelverton and Mr. Doctor Hone did bring from the Lords a Bill Intituled An Act for reformation of deceits in Auditors and their Clerks in making untrue particulars. And also they do declare, that whereas the Lords have received some Bills from this House which their Lordships do think to expedite, and shall need perhaps some small Amendments, therefore they do desire that this House may sit somewhat longer than they purposed before, for the final perfecting and consummating of the same.
The Bill for reformation of Deceits in Auditors and their Clerks in making untrue particulars, was read twice, and committed unto Mr Secretary Cecill, Mr. Comptroller, Sir Walter Raleigh and others, who were appointed to consider presently in the Court of Wards upon the said Bill. And after some short space of time and Conference therein had, it was after their return into this House thought meet the said Committees should confer with the Lords therein, and afterwards report the same unto this House.
Mr Attorney General and Mr Dr Hone did bring from the Lords a Bill that before passed this House, intituled An Act touching the draining of certain surrounded Grounds in the Counties of Huntington, Cambridge, Lincoln, Northampton, Suffolk and Norfolk amended, and with some additions of more Counties, viz. Sussex, Essex, Kent and the Bishoprick of Durham.
The draught of an Order touching Mr. Belgrave was once read, and committed to be considered of presently in the Committee Chamber by Sir Edward Stafford, Mr. Henry Mountague, Mr. Brown, Mr. Doyley, Sir Francis Darcie, Sir John Cotton and Sir John Grey.
Whereas one George Belgrave in the County of Leicester Esquire, a Member of this House, hath made complaint of an Information exhibited against him into the Court of Star-Chamber pretending an abuse in the highest matters, as are those wich do concern the most Honourable and High Court of Parliament, and hath appealed unto this House for that the Information was filed sedente Curiâ; And whereas the House did refer to the Committees for Returns and Priviledges the Examination of the Cause alledged in the Information, and the substance thereof having been related unto this House; This House thereupon did upon the question again moved and largely debated, pronounce and declare the said George Belgrave to be free in their Judgments from any abuse offered to this House, and that he is not to be molested for any such imputation; And have resolved, that this shall be entred as An Act of this House. Vide de istâ materiâ Dec. 3. Dec. 7. Dec. 8. Dec. 10. & Dec. 11. antea.
The Bill to restrain Butchers in and about the City of London from buying, &c. And the Bill touching Practitioners in Physick were each of them read the second time and committed as afore to the former Committees for Brewers.
To Morrow at eight of the Clock in the Morning those that were nominated by this House to distribute the Money collected for the relief of the Poor, and likewise those appointed by the Lords, are appointed to be at the Sessions House in the Old Bayly to take Order for the said distribution.
On Friday the 18th day of December, as the Speaker was coming to the House in the Morning, the Pardon was delivered unto him, which he took and delivered unto the House, which they sent back again because it was not brought according to course.
Mr. Bowyer Secretary to the Lord Treasurer sitting in the Middle of the House on the left side as you come in next to Mr. Skipwith of Lincolns Inn, swooned upon a suddain and was again recovered within a quarter of an hour. It was said he had a spice of the Falling Sickness. He was carried forth of the House by the Serjeant of the same, and three of his men into the outer Room. It was strange to hear the diversity of opinions touching this accident, some saying it was Malum omen, others that it was Bonum omen, &c. But as God will, so be it.
Mr. Attorney General and Mr. Doctor Stanhop did bring from the Lords unto this House two Acts, one Intituled An Act of the Queens Majesties most gracious general and free Pardon, and another Act for the granting of four entire Subsidies and eight Fifteenths and Tenths granted by the Temporalty before passed in this House.
Mr. Secretary Cecill made Report of the meeting and travel of the Committees in the Bill that came from the Lords Yesterday, Intituled An Act for reformation of deceits in Auditors and their Clerks in making untrue particulars; and that for the errors in the form of digestion of the same, it is thought not fit in the opinion of the Committees to be any further dealt in at this time, and so resolved of in the Conference had with the Lords.
Mr Hackwell made a Motion that the Speaker might say something touching the transportation of Ordnance, that seeing the Bill in the Lower House is fallen into an everlasting sleep, and that we knew not thereof before this day, he could not be blamed for that which he could not have spoken before this time; but nothing was replied or done.
The Subsidy of the Clergy was sent in a Roll according to the usual Acts, to which Sir Edward Hobbie took Exceptions, because it was not sent in a long Skin of Parchment under the Queens Hand and Seal. So it was sent back again, and then the other sent.
Mr Herbert Croft said, Mr Speaker, though perhaps my Motion may seem unseasonable at this present, yet I beseech the House consider with me a Speech made Yesterday that consisted of four parts, the scope whereof (it being Mr Hackwell's Speech) layes open the dangerous mischiefs that come by transportation of Ordnance, and that due reformation thereof may be had for restraint of private transporting; I would only put the House in mind, and you also Mr Speaker, that the Gentleman which Yesterday moved it, desired that Mr Speaker might say something thereof to her Majesty in his Speech to be inserted. Which I do again desire the more earnestly, because our Bill is fallen (as he said) into an Everlasting sleep, and we have now no remedy but by her Majesty.
Mr Speaker said, If it please you, upon the Motion of the Gentleman made Yesterday, I mean to say something therein, both for your satisfaction and performance of my duty; And therefore this matter shall need no further to be moved. With which the House rested well satisfied, and so arose. But it is to be noted, that the Speaker said not one word in his Speech to her Majesty touching that matter, which was greatly murmured at and spoken against amongst the Burgesses that the House should be so abused, and that nothing was done therein.
The sending up of this Bill of the general Pardon being thus transcribed out of the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, the rest of this Afternoons Passages, as also the Conclusion of the Parliament do now follow.
About one of the Clock divers Gentlemen met together at the House, whither the Speaker came, and after the Privy-Council: where sitting till past two of the Clock they went to the Upper House, and stayed there at the Gallery Door above half an hour, and at length the Door was opened; and the Lords of the Upper House being all set, and her Majesty under a rich Cloth of State, the Speaker went to the usual place at the Bar, where after three Reverences made, and the like done in their times by all the Commons, the said Speaker amongst other things in his Speech presented her Majesty in the name of the said House with the Gifts of four Subsidies and eight Fifteenths and Tenths (although he somewhat mistook the manner of it in the delivery) Unto which the Lord Keeper having Answered in her Majesties name with thanks, Dissolved the Parliament, after her Majesty had given her Royal Assent unto nineteen publick Acts and ten private.