Proceedings in Parliament 1624: The House of Commons. Originally published by British History Online, 2015-18.
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MONDAY, 22 MARCH 1624
I. JOURNAL OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, PA, HC/CL/JO/1/13
[CJ 744; f. 76v]
Lunae, 22 Martii
L. 1. An act for the naturalizing of Peter Verbeake.
L. 1. An act for the naturalizing of Sir Francis Stewart.
L. 1. An act to enable Sir Richard Lumley to make sale of certain lands.
Inferior courts: tomorrow, 4 [o']clock, Committee Chamber.
L. 2. An act to enable the master of the rolls to make leases of certain houses.
[f. 77] Committed to:
Tuesday, 2 [o']clock, Court of Wards
L. 2. An act for the further description of a bankrupt.
All lawyers and merchants that will come are to have voice. Wednesday, Court of Wards.
[f. 77v] SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR. The inhabitants of Chippenham, to have it the first cause heard at the committee tomorrow. Desire[s] the election of Sir Francis Popham may stand.
Ordered, to be the 3rd cause.
L. 2. Anwell river.
SIR EDWARD COKE. This a very good bill. Prevents one great mischief that hangs over the city. Nimia potatio, frequens incendium. To have it committed.
The patent to be brought to the committee. Wednesday, Star Chamber.
[f. 78] SIR EDWIN SANDYS reports from the committee to draw an answer to his Majesty. Have agreed upon a draft.
SIR EDWARD COKE. Some things in it to be amended.
Recommitted. Presently, Committee Chamber. Sir Robert Cotton, Mr. [John] Selden to attend them.
SIR JOHN SAVILE. A new writ went for a new election for Pontefract. 2 returns made. To know the resolution of the House.
Referred to the committee of privileges.
A letter also to the Speaker about that. That also referred to the committee.
SIR THOMAS WENTWORTH. 2 men returned: Sir John Jackson and Sir Thomas [sic] Beaumont. Sir John Jackson brought in a great many recusants. The mayor greatly misbehaved himself. To have both parties suspended until the cause be determined.
That left to the discretion of the parties to do as they will.
Mr. [John] Benbow says that both of them are returned upon the back of the writ. Desires the resolution of the House, which he should certify.
MR. [JOHN] GLANVILLE. He that is first returned may sit in the House until it be determined. But not to make any order for his coming. That is to adjudge the election good.
MR. SECRETARY CALVERT. Here 2 returned. Therefore, to have both suspended until the cause determined.
SIR ROBERT MORE. We ought to take notice of the return of the mayor, and not of the other.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. Not any precedent for this. To let the committee take it into consideration tomorrow, and the parties in the meantime to stay out of the House.
[f. 78v] SIR EDWIN SANDYS reports again from the committee. Have made some alterations in it.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. To have the word "public" put in.
Upon question, approved, with that word added.
A message from the Lords, by Attorney [General] and Sir Edward Salter: the Lords signify to us that on Friday morning last, a complaint made against one [Thomas] Morley, a woodmonger, for printing and dispersing a paper scandalous to my Lord Keeper and Star Chamber. He, attached by the Serjeant, alleged the cause was depending here. They, out of their correspondence with this House, have surceased and desire to know whether this House be possessed with the cause, or no.
SIR EDWARD COKE. On Friday last, this petition preferred and read. Very ridiculous. Delivered back to him again as unfit for the consideration of the House.
Answer: the House has taken into consideration the message. Return thanks for their good correspondence. This House not possessed of anything concerning Morley. Preferred a petition on Friday last. This read and considered, and returned again as a frivolous petition.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS and others sent up to the Lords to desire a conference, with as much expedition as may, touching an answer to be made to his Majesty's demand.
[f. 79] MR. [JOHN] GLANVILLE reports from the committee of privileges, for Stafford. A petition of Sir William Walter. Complained that Mr. [Richard] Dyott was returned, when he had most voices. No complaint against Mr. [Matthew] Cradock. The cause thus: a precept went to the borough. Came to the hands of Mr. [Richard] Dyott. That morning, went to the town house and went to an election, and upon the election, Mr. [Matthew] Cradock had most voices. Some question whether Sir William Walter or Mr. [Richard] Dyott had most voices, but the committee found that being no public warning, no good election. Neither Sir William Walter nor Mr. [Richard] Dyott duly chosen. Mr. [Matthew] Cradock's election not duly chosen. All agreed that they ought to meddle with that, ex officio, because but one warning for both. The opinion of committee: to have a new election of both.
Ordered, upon question, that a new writ shall go down for a new election for 2 burgesses for Stafford.
Another petition from Bletchingley. Sir Miles Fleetwood duly chosen, but had made his election to serve for another place. An undue practice in [Henry] Lovell. The case thus: this borough no corporation. They have only to do with the election. The precept not delivered to the borough, but to the bailiffs. Warning given to all men. Chose Mr. [John] Hawarde and Sir Miles Fleetwood.
Committee resolved: that the bailiff nothing to do with the election; second, that none but the borough-holders ought to have voice; third, that Mr. [John] Hawarde was well elected, although no public officer gave notice. The misdemeanour of 2: Doctor [Nathaniel] Harris had been too busy in this.
- 1. Gave out my Lady Howard would take away 20 nobles a year from the town if they did not choose/
- [f. 79v] 3. [sic] Proved by one witness, Mr. [Henry] Lovell being excepted against for his religion.
Propounded no punishment. To stand at bar. To give him an admonition, and to let him know he had been too busy in this matter.
For Mr. [Henry] Lovell, resolved that he had committed a great offence against this House. 1. They found that he had not received the communion since Easter 12-month, because out of charity. His mother a recusant, his brother a priest and his daughter a nun. It appeared that Lovell set these men a-work, gave them 6d. to drink and they were to give him £6 if they did not choose him or his friend. Lastly, threatened the town that that which was given to them by my Lady Maynard [sic].
Got an assembly of inmates to seal an indenture. Sealed this without any warrant. Delivered it without the sheriff in his presence. They think fit he is to be committed to the Tower, during the pleasure of the House, not to be enlarged until he submit, and the warrant/
SIR EDWIN SANDYS reports from the Lords. Have attended them and delivered their message. Had this answer: that they did, with great joy, apprehend the good correspondence. Would afford a conference, Painted Chamber. The same number.
Our committee of 48 sent up to the Lords. And Sir Edwin Sandys to make report.
[f. 80] Resolved, upon question, the bailiffs have nothing to do with the election. None but borough-holders ought to have voice.
Resolved, that Mr. [John] Hawarde is well elected.
MR. [THOMAS] FANSHAWE. This Doctor [Nathaniel Harris] has lately preached a sermon against the committee.
The notes of it read. Very ill pulpit language.
Ordered, that that paper shall be referred to the committee of privileges, and they to have power to send for him and the witnesses.
Ordered, a warrant shall go out for a new election in place of Sir Miles Fleetwood.
[CJ 746] Ordered, that Mr. [Henry] Lovell shall be sent for by the Serjeant forthwith and come to the bar upon his knee. He to be set by as a man incapable of the election.
L. 2. An act to make ministers capable of leases.
SIR EDWARD COKE. In Hen. 8['s time,] ministers had no wives, yet had bastards and might take leases for them. Qui ex damnato coitu nascuntur, inter liberos non censentur.
Tomorrow afternoon, Exchequer Court.
Mr. [John] Bankes to draw a bill against the abuse of the Clerks of the Market.
MR. [CHRISTOPHER] BROOKE reports the Earl of Holdernesse's bill. Only one alteration in the title. Second read.
Ordered, to be engrossed.
L. 2. An act against scandalous and unworthy ministers.
Tomorrow, Exchequer Court.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS reports from the Lords. Fell out, unfortunately, that the Prince stayed for the writing. They retired into their House and after a little time came again. Lord Admiral [sic] said merrily, with the [?King], that they had held correspondence with us in delay. The Lords, with a cheerful assent, joined with us. Only one particular that concerned them: "We have with a cheerful consent, no one dissenting". This alter[ation]: "Of us your Commons, no one dissenting". So they are appropriated to us. One other particular. Lords put us before them. Prince said, "We are the first in granting the subsidies and therefore should have the first place".
The Lords will sit this afternoon, and desire us to do so, that we may desire an audience. One thing more: the Duke desires a fair copy written out against the afternoon.
Resolved, the House to sit this afternoon. And a copy to be made.
Lunae, 22 Martii, post meridiem
A message from the Lords, by Attorney [General] and Serjeant [Sir George] Croke. [f. 81v] The Lords have sent down 3 bills:
The alterations read and approved.
The bill read, and passed, with the amendments.
L. 1. An act to abolish all trials by battle in all writs of right.
L. 2. An act to abolish all trials by battle.
Wednesday, Court of Wards, 2 o'clock.
Mr. [William] Noye added to the bill of concealments. To meet tomorrow morning.
Secret offices to be delivered to Mr. Attorney of the Wards. To meet tomorrow morning.
Inferior courts delivered to my Lord Coke. To meet tomorrow morning.
[f. 82] L. 2. An act for free trade of Welsh cloths, cottons, friezes and linings. Ordered to be engrossed.
Sheriffs' accounts. Tomorrow, 2 o'clock, former place.
MR. [JOHN] GLANVILLE delivers in a bill for bail upon outlawries.
A message from the Lords by Attorney [General], Serjeant [Sir Henry] Finch: the Lords signify to this House that the Prince and Duke have moved the King for a time to attend him. They have received his pleasure in it, and therefore desire a conference presently with the former committee of our House, Painted Chamber.
Answer: this House will presently give a meeting, as is desired.
Our committee sent up, Sir Edwin Sandys to make the report.
L. 1. Lord Montagu's bill.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS reports from the Lords. The Prince present. [The] Duke [of] Buckingham delivered that the King well pleased to give audience tomorrow, 8 [o']clock, Whitehall, but he, being not very well, desires to be attended with a less company. The Lords have pitched upon a certain number. Desire that none attend but the committees only. Had read the writing to the King. Confessed he had no order for it.
[f. 82v] King not much misliked. Some exceptions to it. One a peremptory one. In the first speech delivered to him, purposely left out the name of religion, which he seconded as a strong reason to be left out now as well as then. If a war of religion, to leave it out will greatly avail the common cause. Fortified with a 3rd reason. This the first exception. A second exception, rather an observation of an omission. Observed, we had no particular care of his own estate. Duke said he hoped he had such officers as his revenue should suffer no diminution. Duke told him though we had omitted it now, yet in due time we would take it into consideration. Prince, taking the paper into his hand, drew his pen under some words.
SIR NATHANIEL RICH. The Lords, out of their desire of correspondence, would not pass that by the vote of the House until we had first done it.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. We shall run the hazard of losing assistance of Catholic princes if this be inserted. To have them left out without any question.
A message from the Lords, by Attorney [General] and Serjeant [Sir George] Croke: the Lords signify to this House that they have propounded and agreed to have the same committee attend the King. They are pleased to restrain themselves that none attend but the committee in regard of his Majesty's indisposition of health.
Answer: this House has likewise resolved to send the same committee with the like restraint, and to attend at the same time.
[f. 83] SIR EDWIN SANDYS sent up to the Lords to let them know we have left out those words by a general consent, without question.
Ordered peremptorily that no members of this House shall attend the King tomorrow morning but only the committee of 48. Their names to be presented to my Lord Chamberlain.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS reports from the Lords. The Lords greatly approve of that accommodation, of those words to be omitted in the writing of remonstrance. My/
II. DIARY OF JOHN HAWARDE, WILTSHIRE AND SWINDON ARCHIVES, 9/34/2
Lune, 22 Martii 1623
2. L. Bill pur provision de bankrupts de paier lour dettes.
Sur question, committe, touts d'avoir voices. Mercurii in [court de] gards.
Borowe de Chippenham sur novel peticion. Order deste oye de novo in le 3rd lieu.
Order que un bill de praemunire versus Sir Thomas Gerrard deste prepare tomorrowe.
Bill pur confirmacon de letres pattentes al Maier et Citie de London pur certein halt voies et conveyghinge de water.
Iniura petition, frequens incendium oppresses the citie, SIR EDWARD COKE.
Sur question, committe; chivalers, citizens et burgesses de London, Middlesex, Essex et Hertford. Mercurii, in Camere Stellata.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS fait reporte pur respons al Roy.
Borowe de Pontefract in York[shire]; le vicomt retorne et certifie autre. Ambideux suspend tanque le cause soit determine.
[p. 224] Message del seignours par Atturnie [General] et Sir Edward Salter. Pur complaint de [Thomas] Morley, et ils oiant que fuit dependente in notre Huise. Pur mainteigne bon correspondencie ove nous mise al nous al quil response fuit fait que Vendredis preter il mise idle peticion quil fuit lie al committee de greevances et rejecte.
Les seignours sur message del nous desire present conference quil fuit grante.
Et interim, MR. [JOHN] GLANVILLE fait report pur les privileges de Stafford et Bletchingley, et in le debate de Bletchingley ieo va hors del Huise, et resolve sans contradiction dascun que [Henry] Lovell vaera al Tower and Serjeaunte ad en charge de porter et apprehender and Doctor [Nathaniel] Harris est auxy to be sente for and examyned at the committee pur sermon preached by him yesterdaye.
[p. 225] In the afternoone
Le Speaker in the chaire.
3. L. Bill [pur] jeofailes sente from the Lords ingrossed.
And, sur questioning, passe pur ley.
2. L. Bill pur abolisher trialls par battaille.
Sur question, committe, Mercurii in [court de] gards. All the lawyers and soldiares.
2. L. Bill pur Welche cotton, etc.
Sur queston, ne committee sur 2nd question, sera ingrosse.
Bill pur Vicont Montagu de vendre terres et paimente de detts et raiser procions pur files.
Message del seignours par l'Atturnie [General] et Serjeante [Sir George] Croke d'avoir conference presentment. Bill ingrossed come from the Lords.
An autre message les seignours d'attender le Roy tomorow 9 aclocke et restreinte del nomber.
III. DIARY OF JOHN HOLLES, BL, HARL. MS 6,383
Monday, the 22th [sic] of March
[f. 111v] MR. [CHRISTOPHER] BROOKE moved that the money given being promised within a year after the King's declaration to dissolve the treaties, it should be expressed by the King, not a declaration to us but a public declaration or manifest to the world.
[f. 112] The Attorney [General] and Sir Edward Salter brought a message from the Lords that they having sent for [Thomas] Morley, the woodmonger, by a serjeant, and questioning him for his printed complaint against the Lord Keeper, he answered the business was already in the Lower House, whereupon the Lords, desiring to continue the good correspondence between the two Houses, had sent to know.
SIR EDWARD COKE said that Morley's petition against the Lord Keeper was preferred to the committee for grievances but rejected and given him back as unfit to be received.
The answer that was sent to this message of the Lords was that the House was not possessed with the business, that Morley came not, as he should have done, to the committee of the courts of justice but to that of grievances, and that it was rejected.
This we sent to the Lords by messengers of our own, and withal desired a conference about the paper for setting down the House's declaration upon the King's gift.
IV. DIARY OF SIR THOMAS JERVOISE, HAMPSHIRE RECORD OFFICE, 44M69/F4/20/1
[22 March 1624]
An answer to his Majesty, Monday, 22 March
[p. 79] This was, by the hands of Sir Edwin Sandys and a committee of the House of Commons, delivered to the Lords. The Lords, having read it, said that the[y] could not say there was not no voice disagreeing because there was a Lord, my Lord Rutland, did not consent, wherefore it was said "no one of the Commons disagreeing", and the Lords only added these words "and with a full and cheerful consent of the Lords". The Prince said further that because the subsidy did begin from the Lower House, the Commons should be first named.
It was ordered, because the Lord's House did sit this afternoon, that the Lower House should also sit.
This was in the afternoon
A message from the Lords that we should meet in the Painted Chamber.
[p. 80] SIR EDWIN SANDYS'S report. Duke of Buckingham: that the King was well pleased to give us audience tomorrow at 8 in the morning in the Council Chamber at Whitehall, but that the committees may be less because he will have a [sic] less room. He said that he had read unto his Majesty the answer made by us and the Lords. The exceptions taken by the King was the clause of religion, which was left out by my Lord of Canterbury in his speech, and he will not make religion the ground of his war for that he must call into his assistance many princes of that religion. The second exception was an observation of his own estate, saying that if he fell into a war, it would be a great detriment [p. 81] to his own revenue. The Duke answered that his Majesty had such officers as he made no question but would look carefully to his customs, and if anything did fall out he did not think but the Houses of Parliament, either at this time or at some other, would take it into their serious consideration and either see the customs hold or make some satisfaction.
Another message from the Lords: that none but of the committee of both Houses should attend the King tomorrow morning.
[p. 82] A second report of SIR EDWIN SANDYS. That leaving out the clause of religion might be left out in that to the King so it might be no harm to religion at home and that it may only serve for the princes that may be our assistants abroad.
V. DIARY OF JOHN LOWTHER, CUMBRIA ARCHIVE CENTRE, CARLISLE, DLONS/L/2/1
[22 March 1624]
The bill for bankrupts. Committed, Wednesday, in the Court of Wards, all lawyers and merchant[s to have] voice.
The bill for the ordering the New River. Committed.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS reports the answer of thanks for his acceptance of our advice, recites his foresight of war, etc. That we, upon consideration, seeing the danger, [f. 42v] have resolved for the four points to grant the greatest aid that ever to be paid, as offered desire to accept these first fruits, and that if he be engaged in war which may concern, etc., we will assist. (Nota these words: the true religion of almighty [God] was left out at the King's desire).
SIR E[DWARD] COKE.
The bill for parsons to take leases. Committed.
Mr. [Henry] Lovell to go to the Tower for his abuse in labouring indirectly to be chosen at Bletchingley, and Doctor [Nathaniel] Harris, his confederate, sent for and for impeaching the committee [of privileges] in a sermon.
The private bill engrossed for the Lord of Holdernesse's grantees.
The bill for scandalous ministers' punishment read. Twice convicted, or same case. First in other to avoidance, no deprivation until notice offered. Within a year to be punished. Committed.
The committee for free trade sent for certain merchants of all companies and demanded their reasons in writing of the decay or rising of their trade and want of money and sent for their patents to discharge all burdens of trade imposed by them.
VI. DIARY OF EDWARD NICHOLAS, TNA, SP 14/166
Monday, 220 Martii 1623
An act for the further description of bankrupts and for the further relief of creditors and for the inflicting of corporal punishment on bankrupts in certain cases. 2. L. r. p.
MR. [WILLIAM] NYELL says that he knows a west country man that now lies in the King's Bench that has £300 per annum land and is well able to pay his debts and that he has gotten supplicavits against his creditors and bound them all to the good behaviour. That there are many that purchase and convey their lands to their children and after go away into Ireland, etc., and leave their creditors undone. Would have it committed.
This bill is committed.
[f. 104v] An act for confirmation of certain letters patents made by his Majesty to the Governors and Company of the New River from Chadwell and Amwell to London. 2. L.
SIR EDWARD COKE says that he would not have us confirm a letters patents which is not mentioned in the act, for that were to do we know not what. He would have this bill committed.
It is committed, and ordered that all the knights and burgesses of every county through which the said river does run shall be of the committee.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS'S report from the select committee appointed to consider of an answer to his Majesty's speech delivered to our committees, Sunday, 140 Martii last, touching the great business for a supply for defence of this kingdom and other his Majesty's dominions and for a war if occasion shall be. Vide la reponse.
It is ordered that this answer shall be sent to the Lords as it was reported to confer with them about it.
MR. [JOHN] GLANVILLE says that if one return be made of a burgess, it is to be presumed the return is good and so he may sit until the election or return be examined; but if 2 [f. 105] returns be made (when there ought be but one return made), it will stand with the orders of this House that they be both suspended until the election or return be fully examined.
SIR ROBERT PHELIPS. That one of the burgesses of Pontefract is well returned and well elected. He thinks there is no precedent in this business that 3 should be returned for one borough. That he thinks both those on whom there is question of their due return should be suspended until the committee of privileges have heard and resolved the election of them.
The House does not order but inclines that both these burgesses shall be suspended until the return be determined by the committee of privileges.
It is ordered that the answer reported by SIR EDWIN SANDYS from the committee appointed for to draw an answer to be sent to the King touching our supply and gift of 3 subsidies and 3 fifteens, shall be as it was reported sent up by the same committee to the Lords and to pray/
Message that [blank] on Friday last, upon a complaint against one [Thomas] Morley, a woodmonger, for dispersing of some printed papers [blank] tending to the dishonour of the Lord Keeper and the Court [f. 105v] of Star Chamber, their Lordships did send to apprehend the said Morley and having apprehended him, he alleges that the business for which he was complained against and whereof he dispersed those printed papers is now depending in the House, and therefore their Lordships have thought fit for the continuance of their correspondency with this House to know whether this House be possessed of any such business or no.
SIR EDWARD COKE says that there was a petition preferred to the committee of grievances concerning a complaint in the Star Chamber against Serjeant [Thomas] Richardson, which petition the committee rejected as frivolous.
Our answer to the message: we thank the Lords for their correspondency and answer that this House is not possessed of any petition from Morley, but that the House Friday last rejected a petition of his touching a complaint of a business in the Star Chamber against Serjeant Richardson, which they thought frivolous.
We send away messengers to the Lords to acquaint their Lordships that we desire a conference with their Lordships touching our answer to the King with our gift of subsidies and fifteens, and the other part of our answer to the King's speech delivered 14 Martii.
MR. [JOHN] GLANVILLE'S report from the committee of privileges. [f. 106] That Dr. [Nathaniel] Harris said if ministers may not have voices here in Parliament, he would come no more into the pulpit, and misbehaved himself also in the election. That Mr. [Henry] Lovell did confess that he had [not] received the communion (because he said was not in charity with he knew not whom) since Easter was 12 month. And it was proved that his mother's a papist, his son a priest and his daughter a nun. That he gave 6d. for an assumpsit that the burgesses should give him their voices. That he abused the Lady of Effingham's [sic] name in his practice to be elected. That Lovell made a return of himself (there being no corporation in that town of Bletchingley in comitatu Sussex [sic], nor officer to make a return) and drew by a plot the sheriff of that county into the Crown office and there delivered in his presence unknown to the sheriff, who was at the farthest end of that office, the said return to [John] Benbow's man, saying: here is the sheriff that wishes me to deliver you this return; and so paid the fees.
It is ordered that the committee of privileges shall consider of a paper delivered concerning Dr. [Nathaniel] Harris's sermon and shall send for the Doctor, and for any witnesses concerning that business, and that Mr. [Henry] Lovell shall be sent for by a Serjeant-of [sic]-Arms to answer his misdemeanours here on his knee as a delinquent at the bar.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS reports from the Lords that they did with great joy apprehend the good correspondency between both Houses and that their Lordships would give a meeting presently in the Painted Chamber, their number 24.
We send 48 committees to meet at the conference with the Lords presently, and Sir Edwin Sandys is [to] make a report to this House of this conference.
[f. 20] After that the Commons House had agreed on this declaration of particulars to be presented to the King, and that our committee had beforehand showed it to the Lords to see if their Lordships would join with us in it, or the like, the Lords presently, with the Prince's Highness being of the committee, went out of the Painted Chamber into their House to read it, and so to pass it with one consent together and to run the course that we had done. But having read it in their House and putting it to the question for passing in that manner as we had sent it, they all agreed it in isdem verbis, not one man dissenting, saving the Earl of Rutland, who by no means would give his voice, although the Prince and the Lords had laboured him much to the contrary, yet he stood steadily to his first resolution and so continued.
After this, the Prince and the Lords came forth to us again and told us that they had all agreed to this very declaration, but by reason of the dissenting of one Lord of their House their Lordships must add to the words "no one dissenting" for themselves "with the full assent of the Lords".
The Lords likewise disliking that the words "Commons House of Parliament" was inserted before the assent of the Lords, unto which the Prince presently replied that he thought it great reason it should be so because the grant did first arise from us. Secondly, that it was a proffer of ours and not as yet assented unto by the Lords, who were to make an act for it in their House as we had done in ours, and that we might, if we had pleased, done it, as usually we do things of that kind, by ourselves, without making them acquainted with it, and for his part he thought we had showed a great regard to the Lords and forwardness to the King, and would therefore have us take the due of what we have merited and have the words stand in the first place as they were set down, unto which all the Lords agreed, and so they departed, entreating us to meet in the afternoon, and our House to sit, which we agreed unto.
[f. 106v] An act for to make ministers and other spiritual persons capable of leases of lands for the benefit of their wives and children. 2. L. Committed.
An act against scandalous and unworthy ministers. 2. L. Committed.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS'S report from the conference with the Lords: that their Lordships have, with a full, cheerful consent, approved of our answer prepared. That the Prince said our House was the first that granted the subsidies and fifteens, and therefore should be the first named in the answer of both Houses. That the Lords desire our House should sit this afternoon as theirs does, that, if the King please, we may all go to the King this afternoon together.
It is ordered that Mr. Speaker shall be here and sit at 2 o'clock this afternoon.
220 Martii 1623, in the afternoon
The Speaker in the chair.
An act to abolish all trials by battle and joining of issues by battle on a writ of right. 2. L. This bill came from the Lords and is committed.
An act for the further reformation of jeofails. This bill had some amendments with the Lords, which were read here now, 3 times read, and this bill is now passed both Houses. r. p.
An act for the free trade and traffic of Welsh cloths, cottons, friezes, linings and plains. 2. L. Ordered at second reading to be engrossed. r. p.
[f. 20] In the afternoon, we met again with their Lordships, who sent a message to us for that purpose to meet at 2 of the clock in the Painted Chamber, 24 of the 48 of us. When we came together, my Lord Duke of Buckingham told us that the Prince his Highness and he had moved the King for a time for audience of this business.
[f. 107] SIR EDWIN SANDYS'S report from a conference with the Lords: that the King will give us audience tomorrow at Whitehall. That concerning the matter, the Duke of Buckingham said that he showed our answer in writing to the King, who said that he would have us leave out the consideration of religion out of our answer, for that would, if it should be a war, [be] a supersedeas to such princes of a contrary religion as might otherwise assist his Majesty against the ambition of the house of Austria. And his Majesty said that it was the desire of the King of Spain to have the occasion of the breach of these treaties to be published to be a matter of religion.
Our House does consent to have those words of religion left out of our answer, but no question to be made thereof.
Message from the Lords, signifying that because of the indisposition of the King to strain his Majesty to speak so loud as he is forced to do in the Banqueting House, they have appointed that the former committee only which has been employed in this business shall attend the King tomorrow, and that they have appointed that none but that committee only.
Our answer: that we will appoint the same committee of our House which has been here employed and with the same order that no other shall be there. And this is accordingly strictly ordered.
VII. DIARY OF SIR WILLIAM SPRING, HOUGHTON LIBRARY, HARVARD UNIVERSITY, MS ENG. 980
On Monday, the 22nd of March
An act for naturalizing Peter Verbeake.
An act for naturalizing Sir Francis Stewart, Walter Stewart, William Carr, Jame[s] Maxwell and Jame[s] Levingston. This bill came from the Lords.
An act for sale of Sir Richard Lumley's lands.
An act to enable the master of the rolls to let part of the ground and houses belonging to the rolls in Chancery and Fetter Lane.
An act to enable ministers to take leases. Committed.
An act for further description of a bankrupt and relieving of creditors.
An act against scandalous ministers.
An act to confirm the patents granted to the Company of the New River brought from Amwell to London.
There came a message from the Lords to know whether one [Thomas] Morley had any business depending before our House because he, being apprehended for spreading scandalous printed papers against the Lord Keeper, had (to avoid his censure with the Lords) said he had a cause depending here. But it was answered there was not, and he was punished by the Lords.
[p. 153] On Monday, the 22nd of March, the Speaker came in the afternoon while the committee of grievances sat and Sir Edward Coke in the chair, but when the Speaker took his place Sir Edward Coke was removed.
A message came from the Lords by the Attorney [General] and Serjeant [Sir George] Croke which brought down 3 bills:
Whereof that of jeofails that went from us.
One to abolish trials by battle, which was read twice together and passed.
The 3rd, to enable Viscount Montagu to sell land.
An act was read for making of Welsh cloths.
A message from the Lords for a committee to meet in the Painted Chamber with the Prince, the Duke and others to agree about the attendance of the King to present the subsidies, and to know the time that the King will admit them.
The committee went and soon returned and SIR EDWIN SANDYS reports the conference. That the Prince was present and the Duke, and that the Duke said that he had attended the King to know his pleasure for the time of audience, and that the King had appointed it to be tomorrow by 8 of the clock in the morning at Whitehall, and that it was his desire to have but a few to come to him. That the King had seen the copy of that which was intended to be delivered unto him, that he liked it, only excepted at 2 things: the first, a peremptory exception, the other not. First, that whereas in the first advice it was thought fit to leave out the matter of religion, it was no less necessary, nay more, to have it left out here because if the war did ensue the breach of the treaties, it would be requisite for the King to draw into confederacy and association Catholic princes as well as Protestants which perhaps might be drawn in, but if this word of religion be mentioned they will not then join with him. That the King would have no jealousy had at this motion, since through the safety of the realm, the strength of the laws and the state of the King depends on religion, yet the speech of it now will be a detriment to the cause because many Catholics were hoped to [p. 154] be drawn in to oppose the vast ambitions of the Spanish monarch. The Duke said further that the King had observed in the paper that there was no care or provision made for his private estate, and that because his imposts by the war would fail, he thought it was necessary, to which the Duke said he had answered that the King's servants would take a care that no loss should be received that way, and that the Parliament (if he would now satisfy them and win their affections) would either now or at some other convenient time show their care and loves in that particular.
VIII. DIARY OF SIR THOMAS HOLLAND, BODL., TANNER MS 932
22 Martii 1623, Monday
First read. An act for naturalizing Peter Verbeake.
First read. An act for naturalizing Sir Francis Stewart, Walter Stewart, William Carr, James Maxwell and James Leving[s]ton.
First read. An act to enable Sir Richard Lumley, kt., to sell land for the payment of his debts and advancing his younger children.
Second read. An act to enable the master of the rolls and his successors to make leases of certain houses in Chancery Lane and Fetter Lane for xxi years or three lives in possession. Committed, in the Court of Wards, Tuesday, 2 [o']clock.
Second read. An act for the further description of a bankrupt and further relieving of creditors against bankrupts. Committed, [Mr. John] Pym, [Mr. William] Noye, [Sir John] Walter, Court of Wards, Wednesday, 2 [o']clock.
Second read. An act for the confirmation of certain letters patents by the King to the Governors of the New River of Chadwell and Amwell to London. Committed, Wednesday, Star Chamber.
[SIR EDWIN] SANDYS'S report the/
[f. 71] Message from the Lords with 3 bills.
The first a bill for further reformation of jeofails.
The second, second read, to abolishing [sic] all trial by battle and joining all issue of battle by writ of right. Committe[d], [Court of] Wards, Wednesday.
Engrossing. An act for the making of Welsh cloths.
[f. 71v] Message from the Lords, Attorney [General], [Sir Henry] Finch/
IX. DIARY OF JOHN PYM, NORTHAMPTONSHIRE RECORD OFFICE, FH/N/C/0050
220 Martii 1623
An act for the naturalization of [Peter] Verbeake.
An act for the naturalization of Sir [sic] Walter Stewart, James [sic] Stewart and James Maxwell.
An act to enable Sir Richard Lumley for the sale of divers lands.
An act to enable the master of the rolls to make leases.
The committee was appointed to withdraw for framing a declaration of our grant to his Majesty.
An act concerning bankrupts. Committed.
An act for confirmation of the letters patents to the Governor of the New River brought to the City of London.
SIR EDWARD COKE. This patent contains many things not fit to be passed by Parliament.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS reported the preparations made by the select committee of an answer to his Majesty, which consisted of these points.
- 1. A preface containing thanks for his Majesty's good acceptance of our former declaration, and an acknowledgment of his wisdom in descending to this particular proposition.
- 2. The substance of the grant. That in pursuit of our advice toward the support of the war which was likely to ensue, more particularly for these 4 points:
- 1. The defence of the realm.
- 2. Securing of Ireland.
- 3. Assistance of our neighbours, the states of the United Provinces, and of his Majesty's other friends and allies.
- 4. For the setting forth of a royal navy, we will grant the greatest aid that ever was granted in Parliament to be levied in so short a time; that is, 3 entire subsidies and 3 fifteens to be paid within one whole year after his Majesty's declaration, to be paid to their hands and expended by the direction of such commissioners as shall be agreed upon in this present session of Parliament.
- 3. A conclusion desiring acceptance. And for the future, to rest assured that if his Majesty shall be engaged in a real war, we will never fail to assist him in a parliamentary way, etc.
The full draft of this answer, as it was delivered by both Houses, is fol. [blank] huius libri.
[f. 37] It was moved by SIR JOHN SAVILE that Sir John Jackson might be received for Pontefract, who was returned by the mayor and the greater part of the aldermen, although some aldermen and divers burgesses had returned Sir Thomas [sic] Beaumont.
But it was opposed by SIR THOMAS WENTWORTH, alleging the greater number were for [Sir Richard] Beaumont, and the election of [Sir John] Jackson to be procured by a popish faction in the town and by the unlawful practice of temporary burgesses.
Whereupon it was ordered that the committee [of privileges] should first examine the return.
Mr. Attorney [General] brought a message from the Lords that a complaint had been made to them of one [Thomas] Morley for dispersing divers printed papers scandalous to my Lord Keeper, whereupon he was attached by their Serjeant; but hearing that the cause depended in this House, they had surceased.
Upon the report of SIR EDWARD COKE, it was answered that the House was not possessed of any such cause, that Morley had delivered a petition to the committee of grievances, but it was returned as infamous.
This report was mistaken, for there was no such rejection, yet the cause was now dismissed and thereupon the poor man was censured in the Lords' House.
MR. [JOHN] GLANVILLE from the committee of privileges, these particular cases. Mr. [Matthew] Cradock and Mr. [Richard] Dyott were returned for Stafford. Sir William Walter complained against the return of [Mr. Richard] Dyott for that himself had plurality of voices. Upon proof, it appeared that Mr. [Richard] Dyott received the writ and kept it until that morning when the election was made, so the burgesses came together without warning. That Mr. [Mathew] Cradock had clearly most voices; for the other two they did not examine. For the matter of getting the warrant into his hand who was no officer and the sudden meeting without warning was unlawful and so made the election void. Upon which, the committee resolved clearly in regard of Sir William Walter and Mr. [Richard] Dyott. But there was a question whether ex officio they might proceed against Mr. [Mathew] Cradock, which after a little debate it was determined that on behalf of the commonwealth they might accordingly.
It was ordered a new writ should issue for both.
Concerning Bletchingley, one question was whether the borough-holders or the inhabitants had that right of election. There was a borough and a manor. The warrant was delivered to one Wright, one of the borough-holders, who gave private warning to the rest; the greater number made choice of Mr. [John] Hawarde and Sir Miles Fleetwood. After which election, Mr. [Henry] Lovell and Dr. [Nathaniel] Harris procured divers of the inhabitants to assemble without warrant to choose Mr. [Henry] Lovell.
These points were resolved by the committee:
- 1. That the bailiff of the manor had nothing [f. 37v] to do with this election, but the writ was well delivered to one of the borough-holders, there being no public officer.
- 2. That none but borough-holders have voices, and although divers indentures were there mentioned burgesses and other men, yet because it was proved the practice had been contrary, the committee granted their opinion upon the practice and not upon the indentures.
- 3. That where the electors are certain, private notice is sufficient.
- 4. That Dr. [Nathaniel] Harris had offended in these points:
- 1. In giving out that my Lady Howard should take away a pension (which she gave yearly to the poor) if they did not choose Mr. [Henry] Lovell.
- 2. In saying if ministers should have nothing to do with elections, he would never come into the pulpit.
- 3. In labouring to get a certificate that Lovell was a good Protestant.
- 5. That Lovell was guilty of divers contempts:
- 1. That being a non-communicant ever since Easter and a suspected papist, he would presume to intrude himself into this House
- 2. That he had procured some of the burgesses to be bound in assumpsit for his election.
- 3. He had threatened the town to procure my Lady Howard to withdraw 14 nobles which she gave yearly to the poor, and had likewise threatened the sheriff.
- 4. He had laboured with some to return their voices formerly given.
- 5. He had assembled men together without warrant and would have drawn the under-sheriff to make an unlawful return.
The punishment that the committee agreed upon was that Dr. [Nathaniel] Harris should be called to the bar without kneeling to make an acknowledgment of his offence. This Lovell should go to the Tower and remain there until he had satisfied the House by his submission, and be declared to be illegible [sic]pro hac vice.
A new information being given that since the hearing of this cause, Dr. [Nathaniel] Harris had preached a very invective sermon against the proceedings of the committee, it was ordered that his punishment should be respited until this new charge were examined.
The other points were confirmed by the House and an order to bring in Lovell.
An act to make ministers capable to purchase leases [of land] for their wives and children.
Concerning this bill, these reasons were alleged:
- 1. This restraint was laid upon ministers when they might not lawfully marry; now they were allowed wife and children, it is fit the[y] should be allowed means to provide for them.
- 2. That as the law is they may purchase in fee simple and fee tail, to which every man's purse will not reach.
[f. 38] These cautions were desired:
- 1. That provision were made lest this liberty should be an occasion of dilapidations, non-residence, or distraction of the clergy from works of their calling to business of husbandry.
- 2. That it might be so expressed that they may sell or otherwise dispose of such leases as they shall purchase, for if the words of the law be as yet it is, "to the use of their wives and children", they cannot alien[ate] such leases, and will be an occasion to make wife and children undutiful, which was one of the reasons against perpetuities.
The bill was committed.
It was ordered Mr. [John] Bankes should draw a bill to prevent the abuses of the Clerk of the Market.
MR. [CHRISTOPHER] BROOKE reported the bill for assurance of divers lands to Alderman Lumley, being lately the inheritance of Sir H[enry] James. The case was this: Martin James, grandfather, did demise two parts of his lands in [blank] to A, the son, and left the third part to descend. H[enry] was attainted of a praemunire. The King gave benefit of the forfeiture to my Lord of Holdernesse, who told the same Lumley between the King and other parties interested and the heir [sic]. It was agreed that the heir should have all the rest of the lands from the crown and the lands mentioned in the bill should be assured to Lumley.
An act against scandalous ministers.
It was desired a time certain might be set down within which the complaint should be made.
DR. [BARNABY] GOOCH took divers exceptions, which were the same that were propounded by him the last Parliament, vide fol./
The bill was committed. Vide Authent[icae] collat[iones] 6, fit. [sic] 12 [sic]: Ut clerici apiem [sic] proprios episcopos primum convenian[tur] et postea [sic] apud civiles judices, fol. 138.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS reported the conference between the committees of both Houses for the preparation of the answer to his Majesty. They had acquainted the Lords with our draft, who were gone back to know the pleasure of the House. And whereas in a distraction the Lords were placed after the Commons, the Prince declared it should so stand, for the Commons were first in this grant.
A message from the Lords with 3 bills:
- 1. For the reformation of jeofails, which had been sent up from us and was now returned with amendments.
- 2. To abolish trial by battle.
- 3. For settling divers lands of my Lord Viscount Montagu.
The amendments of the bill for jeofails were read and the bill passed.
An act to avoid trial by battle.
[f. 38v] MR. [JOHN] SELDEN. An ancient fundamental law and not to be taken away with a breath without commitment.
MR. [blank]. To be extended to trials upon appeal and a case now in question in the Common Pleas to be provided for.
An act for transportation of Welsh cottons.
A message from the Lords signifying that the Prince and Duke of Buckingham had moved his Majesty for audience, which his Majesty had granted, and the Lords desire a present conference.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS reported the conference with the Lords, wherein the Prince was present and the Duke of Buckingham speaker, which was to this effect. That he had desired audience of his Majesty, which he was well pleased to grant us tomorrow at 8 o'clock; but he required no great multitude might attend it, being troublesome to him to strain his voice, and must be enforced to use a less[er] room. That besides, the King had read the writing, for which he confessed he had no order and if it were a fault, it was his own particular which he did to prevent any such exception as was taken to my Lord of Canterbury's first speech. The King did peremptorily except against the naming of religion, lest it should be taken as one of the causes of the dissolution of the treaties, which he seconded with a strong reason that he should be enforced to draw into this war not only his allies of the reformed religion but those of the Roman, which if it be made a war of religion will be hard to do. Therefore, we must only make it a war for the liberty of Christendom against the vast ambition of Spain. His Majesty added further that he did observe no particular of his estate nor satisfaction for his customs, which must needs impair, to which the Duke answered that he hoped his Majesty's own officers would have a care of that and he need not doubt but we would consider of it hereafter.
A message was sent to the Lords with our consent that the clause wherein religion was named should be altered.
X. DIARY OF SIR WALTER EARLE, BL, ADD. MS 18,597
Monday, the 22nd of March
Bill for the better description of bankrupts, etc. Second read. Committed.
SIR FRANCIS SEYMOUR'S motion on the behalf of the burgesses of Chippenham. 19 of them attended. Desired Sir Francis Popham's choice might stand.
Put off to the committee of privileges.
Bill touching the New River brought to London. Second read. Committed.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS'S report of the draft of the answer to the King.
SIR JOHN SAVILE for the new borough of Pontefract. One indenture returned and another certified.
SIR THOMAS WENTWORTH. The question between Sir John Jackson and [blank] Beaumont. Divers recusants brought in overnight and made freemen of purpose, and other indirect proceedings.
The letter from the sheriff of Yorkshire to the Speaker about that business read in the House, signifying that he had returned the one and certified the other. This referred to the committee of privileges.
It was alleged that the Clerk of the Crown says both are returned.
Question raised whether both, or either, or neither should be admitted to sit until it were decided.
Ordered both to forbear until, etc.
A message from the Lords. [f. 102v] On Friday morning, upon a complaint made against one [Thomas] Morley and others for dispersing certain papers tending to the scandal of the Lord Keeper and the Court of Star Chamber, Morley being attached, alleged the cause was depending in the House. The Lords, desiring to hold a correspondency with this House, desire to know from this House whether the House be possessed of it or no, before they proceed etc.
Answer returned. The House returns thanks. They are not possessed of any such cause. No petition preferred to the committee for the courts of justice but to the committee of grievances, and there rejected.
A message sent to the Lords for a conference about the answer to the King.
The cause of the election for Stafford reported; the election adjudged to be undue.
The case of Bletchingley reported. Mr. [John] Hawarde's election resolved to be good, and [Henry] Lovell that complained and one Dr. [Nathaniel] Harris, the minister, to come tomorrow to be censured for some misdemeanours in their carriage of that business.
Bill for enabling ministers to purchase and take to farm, etc. Committed.
Bill against scandalous and unworthy [f. 103] ministers. Committed.
SIR EDWIN SANDYS'S report from the conference with the Lords. The Archbishop said merrily they had held correspondence with us in delay. The Lords approve of all, but a little alteration, the words "no one dissenting" appropriated to this House. They desire expedition. They purpose to sit this afternoon in regard of the King's going away tomorrow.
Monday, 22nd of March, afternoon
Before the Speaker went to the chair, the cause of the Gold Wyre Drawers began to be heard, but put off by reason of a message coming from the Lords.
The Speaker went to the chair.
Message from the Lords. Bills sent down: bill for reformation of jeofails, amended; bill for abolishing trial of right by battle, etc.; bill for settling certain of Viscount Montagu's lands for payment of debts, etc.
Bill for reformation of jeofails. The amendments first read 3 times, then the amendments interlined and the bill read and so passed.
Bill for abolishing trial by battle, first and second read. Committed.
Bill for free trade of Welsh cottons. Passed to engrossing.
A message from the Lords. They signify that the Prince and the Duke of Buckingham have moved the King to know [f. 103v] his pleasure when the Houses might attend him. They have received his Majesty's pleasure and desire a conference presently in the Painted Chamber by the same committees as before.
At the conference, the Duke of Buckingham declared that he had presumed to acquaint the King with that which was to be presented unto him and that the King having perused it, he took two exceptions:
- 1. Whereof the one was peremptory and that at the words "the true religion of almighty God", saying that would overthrow all, for it was intended that divers princes of contrary religion should come in to join in this war as in a war of state, so as if it went under the name of a war of religion they would go off.
- 2. The other exception was that nothing was done touching his own private estate. But to that, the Duke replying that the King obliging his subjects this way, they would doubtless hereafter in time have a care of that.
The King appointed the next morning at 8 of the clock to give audience at Whitehall, where he desired a fewer number might attend him in regard of the weakness of his voice and his desire to speak unto them in a private room.
Report being made hereof to the House, it [f. 104] was by consent, without putting it to the question, resolved to leave out those words that were accepted against.
The 48 committees were ordered to attend the King. None to be present but they.
XI. JOURNAL OF SIR SIMONDS D'EWES, BL, HARL. MS 159
March 220, Monday
An act to enable Sir Richard Lumley for the sale of certain lands.
An act to enable the master of the rolls to let leases of houses in Chancery Lane for 21 years.
An act for the further description of bankrupts and relief for creditors against them.
An act for confirmation of letters patents granted by his Majesty to the governor and company of such as brought the New River from Amwell to London, granted Jacobi 30 and 40 and 10, and after made a company.
Upon the report from the committee, it was resolved to give his Majesty further to understand that if he were engaged in a real war, we would assist him and humbly desire him to rest confidently assured of it.
Message from the Lords to know whether [Thomas] Morley's cause depended with us or no. He told them it [f. 91] did, whereupon they suspended all further proceedings against him until they knew whether it were so or no.
Response: it depended not among us, for his petition against my Lord Keeper had been tendered indeed at the committee, but cast out of the court as frivolous.
The election of Stafford voided for want of due warning.
[Henry] Lovell elected for Bletchingley, judged unduly chosen and hac vice judged ineligible. He had not received the communion (being asked about it) since Easter was twelvemonth, and being demanded the reason, said because he was not in charity, and being asked with whom he could not tell. He was sent for as an offender and so was Doctor [Nathaniel] Harris for carrying himself too busily in that election, and said, moreover, that unless ministers might have voices in the Parliament house, he would never come more into the pulpit. And besides, there were very vile and railing speeches of his used lately in a sermon, and scandalous against the committee whereupon this business he had been lately examined, openly read in the House, wherefore he was sent for as an offender, but in reverence of his calling not to kneel.
An act to make ministers and other spiritual persons capable to take land for life or leases in their own name for the benefit of their wives and children.
This act explains and repeals that branch H. 8, anno 21, c. 13.
It was also argued they to whom marriage is permitted ought to be permitted likewise to provide for wife and children. Catholics' times gave them leave to provide for their bastards, ergo, ought we to suffer them for their children. A [f. 91v] minister may purchase in fee simple, ergo, let him have liberty to take a lease. Anselm was the first that prohibited ministers in England to marry; Paphnutius understood him and foretold him of the inconveniences would ensue thereon.
But withal, it was desired that a care might be had that under colour of this they turned not farmers nor engrossed too many nor take not out our supplanted old tenants to colleges and cathedral churches. It was never denied ministers anywhere but in England, and only Catholic times did it. (Henrici 5i).
An act against scandalous and unworthy ministers.
An act for avoiding trial by combat. Committed to all the soldiers and lawyers of the House.
An act for the settling of certain lands of the Right Honourable the Lord Viscount Montagu's for the raising of his daughters' portions.
A message for conference with signification that the King appoints to be spoken with by the committees the next day at 8 o'clock. The word "religion" put out of our speech by his Majesty, lest he should make the war for the Palatinate a war of religion, and his Majesty would fortify the cause by some otherwise affected that ways than we are ourselves.