House of Commons Journal Volume 3
16 May 1644

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 3: 16 May 1644', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 3: 1643-1644 (1802), pp. 494-497. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=1043 Date accessed: 22 August 2014.


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Die Jovis, Maii 16, 1644.

PRAYERS.

Indemnifying Soame, &c.

AN Ordinance for indemnifying and saving harmless Sir Tho. Soame, Sir Henry Garroway, Mr. Middleton, and Mr. Bateman, upon the Payment of Two thousand Pounds, for which they stand indebted to Henry Hilton, of the County Palatine of Durham, deceased, notwithstanding supposed to be the Monies of the Lady Jane Shelley, a Papist; and likewise for the enjoining the Executors of the said Baron Hilton to deliver up the Bonds to the Debtors, or to release unto them; was this Day read the First and Second time; and, by Vote, upon the Question, assented unto; and ordered to be sent unto the Lords for their Concurrence.

Sir Henry Garroway, &c.

Ordered, That if Sir Hen. Garroway, or any other, shall make any Failure of Payment of the Monies appointed to be paid by them to Sir Tho. Middleton, by Order of Parliament of the Eighth and the Thirteenth of May, that then the Committee at Haberdashers Hall shall have Power to distrain for the said Monies.

Gamull's Will.

An Ordinance concerning the Disposal of the Estate of Tho. Gamull, deceased, and placing the Power in the Overseers of the Will of the said Tho. Gamull, of putting in Execution, and taking upon them the Execution of, the said Will.

Captain Jones, &c.

Captain Jones and Mr. Pley, that came, on Sunday last, from Lime in Dorsettshire, were called in: And Mr. Speaker, by the Command of the House, took notice of their good and faithful Service; and of Captain Jones his extraordinary good Service at Poole: And did, by Command of the House, promise, That the Bills payable to Captain Jones, and drawn upon Mr. Prideaux and Mr. Rose, shall be duly complied with; and whatsoever else shall be laid out by him, shall be satisfied.

Affairs at Lyme, &c.

And then Mr. Speaker, by the Command of the House, desired them to return Thanks to the Town of Lyme; and to assure them, that this House will not be wanting in any thing that may encourage them.

Resolved, &c. That whatsoever Sum shall be raised upon the Assessment of the Twentieth Part of Sir Edw. Yates, shall be employed for the Relief and Benefit of Lyme.

Ordered, That the Committee of this House for Plymouth, Lyme, and Poole, do prepare an Ordinance for applying such Monies as shall be raised upon such Delinquents as have transported Wool and Fullers Earth, to the Benefit and Advantage of Lyme.

Mr. Recorder and Mr. Prideaux are appointed to return Thanks to the Earl of Pembroke, for his Forwardness to advance his Credit in the Isle of Wight, to supply Necessaries for the Relief of Lyme; and to assure his Lordship, from this House, that whatsoever Necessaries shall be furnished upon his Lordship's Engagements, shall be secured, and repaid by the Care and Order of this House.

The like is ordered for any other Gentlemen that shall, upon their Engagements, furnish any Necessaries for Lyme.

Whereas Mr. Owner has, of his own charitable Disposition to the Town of Lyme, now besieged, voluntarily contributed Twenty Pounds for the Relief of Lyme: The House doth take notice of this Act, as a Testimony of his good and charitable Affection to the Publick; and return him hearty Thanks.

Ordered, That it be referred to the Committee for the King's Revenue to take into Consideration the Earl of Pembroke, in regard of his great Losses sustained for his Fidelity to the Publick; and to look upon him, concerning the Monies payable by him to the Revenue of the Court of Wards, with a Respect had to his great Losses, and his present Condition thereby.

Ordered, That Captain Jones shall be satisfied for his Two great Guns and Twelve Barrels of Powder, delivered by him for the Service of Poole, out of such Monies as are already, or shall be hereafter, assigned to Poole.

Portesmouth Garison.

Ordered, That it be referred to the former Committee for discharging the Engagements of Portesmouth, and the Committee of the Association of the Four Counties, to consider of some Way for raising of Monies for Payment of the Garison at Portesmouth; and how that Garison may be paid from time to time; and to present their Opinions to the House: And they are to meet upon it this Afternoon.

Crawford's Arrears.

Ordered, That the Earl of Manchester be desired to advance, by way of Loan, Five hundred Pounds, upon Account, to Serjeant Major General Crawford, out of the Monies raised in that Association under his Lordship's Command, towards the Arrears due to the said Major Crawford, for his Entertainment in Ireland: And that this House will see the said Five hundred Pounds repaid, upon the Account of the said Major Crawford, tendered and allowed of by this House.

Message to Lords.

Lord Cramborne went up to the Lords, to desire a free Conference, by Committees of both Houses, so soon as may stand with their Lordships Conveniency, upon the Matter of the last Conference, touching the Ordinance for the Committee of both Kingdoms.

Answer.

Brings Answer, That the Lords are busy upon the Trial of the Bishop of Canterbury; so that the Message cannot now be admitted.

Petition, &c. from London.

The House being informed, that the Sheriffs of London, with divers Aldermen and other Citizens of London, were at the Door; who desired to offer some Things to the Consideration of this House;

They were called in; and Alderman Foulke, one of the Sheriffs, in the Name of the rest, spoke to the Purpose following:

That they were sent by the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council, to present divers Particulars of Concernment to the grave Consideration of this Assembly. A Common Council met Yesterday; and were informed, from divers Inhabitants of Bedforde, That they had prepared a Petition to his Excellency, that the Works ordered by his Excellency to be slighted at Bedforde may not be yet slighted; and, because his Excellency was gone out of Town before they came, they addressed themselves to the Common Council, conceiving it concerned the City to have that Place secured: And thereupon the Common Council resolved to make their Addresses to this Assembly, on Behalf of the Petitioners, That their Petition may be taken into Consideration, and Directions be given for the continuing or slighting of them.

The Common Council received an Order from this honourable Assembly, directed to the Common Council and to the Committee of the Militia, and both of them required to put the same in Execution within the Line of Communication; which is, to remove all Papists and suspected Persons out of the Line, and such as are come from Oxford; and to send such Officers and Soldiers to their Colours, as they shall find in the Limits aforesaid; and also to have our Forces in Readiness in Two Hours Warning. They have considered of the Order; and have in part put it in Execution; and are resolved effectually to do it; and do return their humble Thanks for your great Care of the City; being resolved, with all Duty, to observe your Commands; and fully and chearfully to put the same in Execution.

They present you likewise with a Petition from the Garison of Windsor, that have done faithful Service.

In the next Place, they humbly offer a Petition from the Representative Body of the City: Whereby it will appear, they are very sensible of your Constancy to preserve Religion and Liberty, and of the Discouragements that are given you: They present their humble Thanks for your Constancy in the publick Service; and represent the Apprehension and Fears of the Ground of your Discouragements, with their humble Desires of a Remedy; the City being resolved chearfully to obey your Orders, and your Directions, from time to time; and adhere unto you to the utmost Expence of their Lives and Estates, according to their late solemn Covenant.

After they had withdrawn, the several Petitions they presented, were read: The Petition from the City being as followeth:

To the Right honourable the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses, of the Commons, assembled in Parliament:

The humble Petition of the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons, of the City of London, in Common Council assembled;

Sheweth,

That the continued Industry, Courage, and Constancy, which this honourable House have manifested in all Affairs concerning the Publick; the faithful Endeavours of the Lords and Commons of the Committee of both Kingdoms; the special Case taken, in putting the Tower of London, and Castle of Windsore, into safe Hands; and your favourable Resolutions, not to dispose of them otherwise than as may stand with the Security and Satisfaction of this City; have laid a great Obligation of Thankfulness upon the Inhabitants thereof, and their Posterity; and encouraged the Petitioners humbly to represent their Apprehensions and Fears, arising from the Discontinuance of that honourable Committee, especially at this Time, when our Enemies are so active, and all our Armies in Motion; from the Want of Execution of Justice upon Delinquents; the not putting of Tilbury Fort in safe Hands; and from the Endeavours of divers Members of Parliament to be re-admitted into that great Council, who have, contrary to the Trust in them reposed, deserted the same, kept Correspondency with the Enemy, joined in other Council, and taken up Arms against the Parliament.

For Removal of which Apprehensions and Fears, and Prevention of the said Consequences thereof, your Petitioners make it their earnest and humble Suit, to the honourable House;

That the Committees of both Kingdoms may be so speedily re-established, as the present Exigence of Affairs requires:

That the Tower of London, and Castle of Windsore, may be continued in safe Hands; and the Garison at Windsore timely and constantly supplied with Money, and other Necessaries; and the Fort of Tilbury well manned, and put into the Hands of Persons of Trust, and that have Ability to discharge the same:

That a Course may be forthwith taken, for the Trial and Punishment of Delinquents:

That none of the said Members of Parliament may be re-admitted, without special Assurance and Satisfaction first given, to both Houses of Parliament, for their Fidelity in Time to come:

That this honourable House will persevere in your Endeavours and Resolutions, tending to the publick Good; notwithstanding all Discouragements:

And to rest assured, That the Petitioners, for the promoting thereof, will chearfully obey your Orders and Directions from time to time; and adhere unto you to the utmost Expence of their Lives and Estates, according to their late solemn Covenant.

The Sheriffs, and the rest that came from the City, were called in again: And Mr. Speaker returned this Answer, "That the House hath received their several Petitions; and read the same (especially that from the Body of the City) with great Contentment; wherein so much Love and Fidelity is expressed to this House, and the Kingdom. They take notice of the Seasonableness of this Petition, which, we hope, will put the Enemy to new Counsels to their own Destruction: But, because they resolve to give you an Answer in more particular Expressions, they will send it by some Members of their own."

"As for that of Windsore, the House intends, before they make any Alteration in that Garison, to acquaint the City herewith: And, for the other Petition, concerning Bedford, they will take it into a speedy Consideration."

Ordered, That the Garison of Windsore shall not be removed or disposed, without first acquainting the City therewith.

Ordered, That it be referred to the Committee of the King's Revenue, to confer with the Committee of the Militia, about the establishing of the Fort of Tilbury in such safe Hands as may give the City Satisfaction.

Sir Hen. Vane senior and junior, Mr. Whitlock, Mr. Rous, Mr. Recorder, Mr. Solicitor, Mr. Strode, Sir Thomas Barrington, Mr. Crew, Mr. Pierpoint, Sir Gilb. Gerard, Mr. Sam. Browne, Sir Benjamin Rudyard;

This Committee, or any Four of them, is appointed to meet this Afternoon, at Three of Clock, in the Exchequer Chamber, to consider of, and prepare, an Answer to the Petition this Day presented by the Sheriffs of London from the Body of the City; and to the Particulars of it; and especially to That Particular concerning the Committee of both Kingdoms: And are to bring it in To-morrow Morning.

Ship Mary and Dorothy.

Ordered, That the Petition of the Owners of the Ship Mary and Dorothy, of London, (Edward Chamlett, Master) and of the Merchants interested in her Lading, be referred to the Consideration of the Committee of the Navy, to examine and state the Business to this House: And, because there is Six Foot Water in the Hold of the said Ship, and there are much Bona peritura in the said Ship, that such Accommodation may be afforded to the said Ship and Goods, as may be for the Preservation of them in the mean time.

Army Estimate.

Ordered, That the Estimate of the Supplies demanded for the Lord General's Army, and the Isle of Guernsey, be referred to the Committee at Haberdashers Hall, to present their Opinions to the House.

Provisions for Army.

Ordered, That it be especially recommended to the Lord Mayor, and the Committee of the Militia, to give Order for the present providing of such Carriages and Teams as shall be necessary for the sending away of such Provisions as are now immediately to be sent to Sir Wm. Waller's Army.

Ordered, That the Letter from Sir Wm. Waller, of the Fifteenth of May, concerning some Provisions to be sent unto him, out of the Stores, which are not there to be had, be referred to the Consideration of the Committee of the Association of the Four Counties, and the Committee of the Western ..., to take care for the present providing of those Necessaries expressed in the said Letter.

Letters to Scotch Parliament, &c.

Ordered, That it be referred to the Members of this House, formerly of the Committee of both Kingdoms, to prepare Letters to be sent to the Parliament of Scotland, to acquaint them with a Narrative of Matters passed, and for the Preservation of a good Correspondence between the Two Parliaments.

Ordered, That the Assembly do write a Letter to the National Assembly of the Church of Scotland, as a Testimony of their Respect, and to preserve a good Correspondency; not meddling with any thing that is concluded, or under Debate, in this Assembly.

Mr. Rous and Mr. Sallway are appointed to acquaint the Assembly with this Order.

The House being informed that divers Divines of the Assembly were at the Door; who desired to represent something to the House;

They were called in: And Dr. Burges acquainted the House, That the Assembly being informed, by the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland, that the National Assembly of the Church of Scotland were to meet very shortly; and the Assembly having received Letters formerly from that Assembly, did resolve to send Letters to them, as a Testimony of the Respects only, and to maintain a good Correspondence; not mentioning any thing that is concluded, or under Debate, in this Assembly: But would not adventure to do any thing, till they had first acquainted this House with their Intentions.

This said, they withdrew:

And were again called in: And Mr. Speaker, by the Command of the House, acquainted them, That, before they came in, the House had ordered, That the Assembly should write a Letter, to testify their Respects, and to maintain a good Correspondency; and do agree, that, in such general Terms, expressed by themselves, they should write unto the National Assembly in Scotland.

Subscriptions for Cheshire.

Whereas, by an Ordinance of the Lords and Commons, of the Twenty-sixth of March last, Sir Wm. Brereton Baronet is enabled to take Subscriptions of such Sums of Money as any Person should contribute to the Relief of Cheshire; and to give Notes under his Hand, for Repayment, upon the Publick Faith: And likewise, by the said Ordinance, hath Power to take the Benefit of the personal Estates of such Papists and Delinquents, in London, or within Twenty Miles, as he shall discover within Two Months: The said Sir Wm. Brereton being now to go down upon the public Service; It is therefore hereby Ordered and Declared, That John Bradshaw and Wm. Steele, of the City of London, Esquires, shall for the Use of the said County of Chester, have as full Power and Authority, in all things concerning the taking of the said Subscriptions for Money, and giving Notes under their Hands, for Repayment of the same upon the publick Faith, and for the raising of Monies upon the said Estates of Delinquents, as the said Sir Wm. Brereton any way hath, by virtue of the said Ordinance. (fn. a) And whereas by the said Ordinance, Sir Wm. Brereton is first to acquaint the Committee of Lords and Commons for Sequestration, before the possesses himself of the said Papists or Delinquents Estates, that the Delinquency of the Person may be judged by them: Because the said Committee sit seldom, it is therefore Ordered and Declared, That the like Power shall be given to the Sub Committees for Sequestration, where such Discovery, as is mentioned in the said Ordinance, is made.

The Lords Concurrence to be desired herein.

Brereton's Commission.

Whereas the Necessity of making a Commander in Chief, in the Absence of the Lord Fairfax and Sir Thomas Fairfax, over the Forces which are, or shall be, raised in the County of Chester, is very expedient to promote the publick Service: It is therefore Ordered, That Sir Wm. Brereton Baronet shall command, and have the full Power of a Commander, in chief in the said County of Chester, in the Absence of the said Lord Fairefaxe and Sir Thomas Fairfax: And that the Lord Fairfax shall be desired to grant a Commission to the said Sir Wm. Brereton, to command in chief the Forces aforesaid; and to have Power to lead, conduct, and carry the same, to such Place as he shall think fit, for the Defence of the said County, and Counties adjacent; and likewise Power to give the same Orders and Instructions, in the Absence of the said superior Officers, for regulating the Soldiers which are or shall be under his Command, as his Excellency hath given to his Army; and to use martial Law, to compel Obedience thereunto, as Occasion shall require; and also Power and Authority to make and appoint Colonels, Captains, and other Officers, for the leading and conducting the said Forces, as he shall think fit.

Committee of both Houses.

(fn. b) The Lords having taken into Consideration the absolute Necessity of having a Committee of both Houses to join with the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland, that the great Business of both Kingdoms, now united in one common Interest, and all kind of Relations, both of Safety and Danger, might be carried with one joint Concurrence, both of Counsel and Endeavours; and taking notice of the Ordinance, which for these Three Months last past gave a Being to such a Committee, was now expired, had framed another; wherein, according to their undoubted Right, never questioned nor disputed in any Parliament, they named their own Members, which must needs appear just and equal to all Men who very indifferently judge, and which, they doubt not, will be found by yourselves, notwithstanding there is that Unhappiness, that in the Alteration you have made, and sent up unto them, as we conclude, have endeavoured to abridge them of their Liberties in their Choice of their Committee, both for the Persons and the Number, which the Lords find contrary to all former Precedents; yet, considering how necessary it is for the present Preservation of Church and Commonwealth, that there should be good Correspondency between the Two Houses, and an uninterrupted Concurrence of our joint Endeavours to promote the Common Good, both of Parliament and Kingdom, the Lords have thought fit to offer you this Accommodation; That, if you please to send them up another Ordinance to the same Purpose as the other was, they will comply with your Desires for the same Number that you sent up; the Names of the Persons of your own House being inserted by yourselves, and a Blank being left for the Lords to nominate their own Members: This, they hope, will give full Satisfaction, and justify themselves to all the World, how careful and tender they are of doing any thing which may look to a wilful Disagreement with you; but are still ready to co-operate with you in whatsoever may advance the publick Service, though with yielding something of what they might challenge, if they should stand strictly upon their own Right.

Ditto.

(fn. c) The House of Commons agree with your Lordships, That it is necessary to have a Committee of both Houses to join with the Commissioners of Scotland, the Kingdom of Scotland having joined with us in a common Defence for Religion and Liberty of both Nations; and that the Two Houses of Parliament, which are denied and opposed by others, should keep Unity and a good Understanding among themselves: And they shall be careful neither to infringe any of your Lordships Rights, nor to stand more strictly upon their own, than shall be requisite for the Service both of the Kingdom and Parliament.

Whereas your Lordships hold it most equal, and your undoubted Right, to have the naming your own Members, in the Ordinance you sent for a joint Committee; We acknowledge it is the just and undoubted Right of either House, in any Ordinance they shall send each to other, to name what Persons they shall think fit: But they deny, that either House hath a severed and particular Right to name their own Members in a Bill, or Ordinance, as that the other House shall be thereby concluded; because that Bills and Ordinances are made by the Legislative Power, which is not a distinct Privilege of either House, but a common Right of Parliament.

In the Ordinance which was sent down by your Lordships, the Committee is to be a joint Committee with the Commissioners of Scotland; which proves that the Members of each House are not appointed by their respective Houses, but by Authority of Parliament.

Concerning the Accommodation mentioned by your Lordships, they desire not to proceed by way of Anticipation or Precontract, but to go in the old and usual Way of Parliament; which is, That, in Amendments offered upon a Bill or Ordinance, the Amendments only are to be questioned, and not the Bill or Ordinance to be waved, in respect that all but the Amendments are assented to by both Houses: And in this particular Case, your Lordships have been of the same Opinion: For in the passing the Ordinance, whereby the Committee of both Kingdoms sat, your Lordships propounded an Addition of six Lords more; which, upon Reasons from the House of Commons, your Lordships waved, and declare yourselves satisfied; and therefore cannot conceive, that That should be now urged a Breach of Privilege, which, upon Reasons and Debate, was then settled as is now desired; there being many Armies in the Field, and all in present Action, which will require daily Advice and Direction.

The House of Commons, to discharge the Duty and Trust, which . . . upon them for the Safety of the Three Kingdoms, do desire your speedy Concurrence in the Ordinance which they returned to your Lordships.

Footnotes

a This Clause is struck out; and in the Margin is wrote "Maii 30, 1644, left out, by a Message sent from the Lords, by Order."
b This seems to be the Paper delivered from the Lords at a Conference; and reported by Mr. Ellis, 15 Maii.
c This seems to be the Answer to the Paper from the Lords; ordered to be prepared the same Day.