House of Lords Journal Volume 36
February 1780 1-10

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History of Parliament Trust

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1767-1830

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27-32

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 36: February 1780 1-10', Journal of the House of Lords volume 36: 1779-1783 (1767-1830), pp. 27-32. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=116655 Date accessed: 23 September 2014.


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February 1780 1-10

DIE Mercurii, 2o Februarii 1780.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Archiep. Ebor.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Meneven.
Ds. Thurlow, Cancellarius.
Comes Bathurst, Præses.
Comes Dartmouth, C. P. S.
Dux Bridgewater.
Comes Cassillis.
Comes Abercorn.
Comes Galloway.
Comes Dunmore.
Comes Waldegrave.
Ds. Willoughby Br.
Ds. King.

PRAYERS.

Thanks to Bp. Lincoln for his Sermon.

Ordered, That the Thanks of this House be, and are hereby given to the Lord Bishop of Lincoln for the Sermon by him preached before this House on Monday last, in the Abbey Church Westminster, and that he be desired to cause the same to be forthwith printed and published.

E Egremont et al. Petition referred to Judges.

Upon reading the Petition of George Wyndham O'Brien Earl of Egremont, and Baron of Cockermouth; and also of Sir James Peachy Baronet, Sir George Cornwall Baronet, John Wickins Clerk, George James Williams Esquire and Euseby Cleaver Clerk, which said Sir James Peachy, Sir George Cornwall, John Wickins, George James Williams and Euseby Cleaver are the only surviving Trustees of an Alms-house or House of Charity at Petworth, in the County of Sussex; praying Leave to bring in a Bill for the Purposes in the said Petition mentioned:

It is Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be, and is hereby referred to the Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas, and the Lord Chief Baron of the Court of Exchequer, who are forthwith to summon all Parties concerned in the Bill; and after hearing them, are to report to the House the State of the Case, with their Opinion thereupon, under their Hands, and whether all Parties who may be concerned in the Consequences of the Bill, have signed the Petition; and also that the Judges having perused the Bill, do sign the same.

Johnston against Lowe, et al.

Upon reading the Petition of Richard Lowe and others, Defendants in a Writ of Error depending in this House, wherein Samuel Johnston is Plaintiff; setting forth, "That the Plaintiff has not assigned Errors within the Time limited by their Lordships Standing Order;" and therefore praying, "That the said Writ of Error may be Non-pros'd with such Costs, as to their Lordships shall seem meet:"

Writ of Error Non-pros'd with Costs.

It is Ordered, That the Petitioners do forthwith enter a Non-pros, on the said Writ of Error as desired; and that the Record be remitted to the Court of King's Bench, to the End Execution may be had upon the Judgement given by that Court, as if no such Writ of Error had been brought into this House: And further, That the Plaintiff in Error do pay, or cause to be paid to the Defendants in Error, the Sum of Forty Pounds for their Costs, by reason of the Delay of the Execution of the said Judgement.

Hase against Goodtitle:

Upon reading the Petition of Thomas Goodtitle, Defendant in a Writ of Error depending in this House, wherein Thomas Hase is Plaintiff; setting forth, "That the Plaintiff has not assigned Errors within the Time limited by their Lordships Standing Order;" and therefore praying, "That the said Writ of Error may be Non-pros'd with such Costs, as to their Lordships shall seem meet:"

Writ of Error Non-pros'd with Costs.

It is Ordered, That the Petitioner do forthwith enter a Non-pros, on the said Writ of Error as desired; and that the Record be remitted to the Court of King's Bench, to the End Execution may be had upon the Judgement given by that Court, as if no such Writ of Error had been brought into this House: And further, That the Plaintiff in Error do pay, or cause to be paid to the Defendants in Error, the Sum of Forty Pounds for his Costs, by reason of the Delay of the Execution of the said Judgement.

Ballmer against Dallas and Blundell:

Upon reading the Petition of George Dallas and Henry Blundell, Defendants in a Writ of Error depending in this House, wherein James Ballmer is Plaintiff; setting forth, "That the Plaintiff has not assigned Errors within the Time limited by their Lordships Standing Order;" and therefore praying, "That the said Writ of Error may be Non-pros'd with such Costs, as to their Lordships shall seem meet:"

Writ of Error Non-pros'd with Costs.

It is Ordered, That the Petitioners do forthwith enter a Non-pros. on the said Writ of Error as desired; and that the Record be remitted to the Court of King's Bench, to the End Execution may be had upon the Judgement given by that Court, as if no such Writ of Error had been brought into this House: And further, That the Plaintiff in Error do pay, or cause to be paid to the Defendants in Error, the Sum of Forty Pounds for their Costs, by reason of the Delay of the Execution of the said Judgement.

L. Onslow's, Petition referred to Judges.

Upon reading the Petition of the Right Honourable George Baron Onslow and Baron Cranley, praying Leave to bring in a Bill for the Purposes in the said Petition mentioned:

It is Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be, and is hereby referred to the Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas, and the Lord Chief Baron of the Court of Exchequer, who are forthwith to summon all Parties concerned in the Bill; and after hearing them, are to report to the House the State of the Case, with their Opinion thereupon, under their Hands, and whether all Parties who may be concerned in the Consequences of the Bill, have signed the Petition; and also that the Judges having perused the Bill, do sign the same.

Molvreux's, Petition referred to Judges

Upon reading the Petition of Jane More Molyneux Spinster, praying Leave to bring in a Bill for the Purposes in the said Petition mentioned:

It is Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be, and is hereby referred to the Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas, and the Lord Chief Baron of the Court of Exchequer, who are forthwith to summon all Parties concerned in the Bill; and after hearing them, are to report to the House the State of the Case, with their Opinion thereupon, under their Hands, and whether all Parties who may be concerned in the Consequences of the Bill, have signed the Petition; and also that the Judges having perused the Bill, do sign the same.

Longlands to enter into Recognizance on and Haldane's Appeal.

The House being moved, "That Thomas Longlands of Brewer Street, Gentleman, may be permitted to enter into a Recognizance for George Haldane Esquire, on account of his Appeal depending in this House, he residing in Scotland:"

It is Ordered, That the said Thomas Longlands may enter into a Recognizance for the said Appellant, as desired.

Hogg against Hogg.

Ordered, That the Hearing of the Cause wherein Robert Hogg of Ramoir is Appellant, and Mary Hogg is Respondent, which stands appointed for this Day, be put off to Friday the 11th Day of this Instant February.

Causes put of.

Ordered, That the Hearing of the Cause wherein Andrew Wauchope of Niddry, Esquire, is Appellant, and Sir Archibald Hope Baronet, and James Earl of Abercorn, are Respondents, et e contra, which stands appointed for Friday the 11th Day of this Instant February, be put off to Monday the 14th Day of this Instant February; and that the rest of the Causes be removed in Course.

North America, Account of Spanish Coins purchased for Army, delivered.

The House being informed, "That Mr. Neale attended;

He was called in, and delivered at the Bar, pursuant to an Order of the 17th of December last for that Purpose,

"An Account of the Spanish and Portugal Coins purchased by Messieurs Harley and Drummond, for the Use of the Army in North America, distinguishing the Quantity and Species of such Coins, and the Persons to whom, and the Time when they were delivered in Europe; and the Persons to whom they were directed in America."

And then he withdrew.

And the Title thereof being read by the Clerk;

Ordered, That the said Account do lie on the Table.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Veneris, quartum diem instantis Februarii, hora decima Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Veneris, 4o Februarii 1780.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Archiep. Cantuar.
Archiep. Ebor.
Epus. Roffen.
Epus. Litch. & Cov.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Exon.
Epus. Lincoln.
Epus. Meneven.
Ds. Thurlow, Cancellarius.
Comes Bathurst, Præses.
Comes Dartmouth, C. P. S.
Comes Galloway.
Comes Clarendon.
Viscount Hampden.
Ds. Willoughby Br.
Ds. Amherst.

PRAYERS.

Lane to enter into Recognizance on Blake's Appeal.

The House being moved, "That John Lane, of King Street, Covent Garden, Gentleman, may be permitted to enter into a Recognizance for Mark Blake Esquire on account of his Appeal depending in this House, he residing in Ireland:"

It is Ordered, That the said John Lane may enter into a Recognizance for the said Appellant, as desired.

Fast Day observed.

Then, in order to proceed to the Abbey Church Westminster, to solemnize this Day, being appointed by His Majesty's Royal Proclamation to be observed as a General Fast;

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Martis, octavum diem instantis Februarii, hora undecima Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Martis, 8o Februarii 1780.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Archiep. Cantuar.
Archiep. Ebor.
Epus. Cicestrien.
Epus. Norvicen.
Epus Bath. & Wells.
Epus. Asaphen.
Epus. Carliol.
Epus. Landaven.
Epus. Petriburg.
Epus. Glocestr.
Epus. Roffen.
Epus. Litch. & Cov.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Cestrien.
Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Exon.
Epus. Lincoln.
Epus. Meneven.
Dux Gloucester.
Dux Cumberland.
Ds. Thurlow, Cancellarius.
Comes Bathurst, Præses.
Comes Dartmouth, C. P. S.
Dux Richmond.
Dux Grafton.
Dux Beaufort.
Dux Bolton.
Dux Devonshire.
Dux Marlborough.
Dux Rutland.
Dux Queensberry.
Dux Ancaster & Kesteven.
Dux Portland.
Dux Manchester.
Dux Dorset.
Dux Bridgewater.
Dux Northumberland.
Dux Montagu.
March. Lothian.
March. Rockingham.
Comes Talbot, Senescallus.
Comes Hertford, Camerarius.
Comes Derby.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Pembroke.
Comes Suffolk & Berkshire.
Comes Exeter.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Westmorland.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Chesterfield.
Comes Sandwich.
Comes Carlisle.
Comes Berkeley.
Comes Abingdon.
Comes Gainsborough.
Comes Plymouth.
Comes Scarbrough.
Comes Rochford.
Comes Coventry.
Comes Jersey.
Comes Cholmondeley.
Comes Eglintoun.
Comes Cassillis.
Comes Abercorn.
Comes Galloway.
Comes Loudoun.
Comes Dunmore.
Comes Marchmont.
Comes Oxford.
Comes Ferrers.
Comes Tankerville.
Comes Aylesford.
Comes Stanhope.
Comes Harborough.
Comes Macclesfield.
Comes Waldegrave.
Comes Effingham.
Comes Brooke.
Comes Fitzwilliam.
Comes Powis.
Comes Egremont.
Comes Temple.
Comes Harcourt.
Comes Fauconberg.
Comes Northington.
Comes Radnor.
Comes Hillsborough.
Comes Ailesbury.
Comes Clarendon.
Comes Mansfield.
Viscount Hereford.
Viscount Montague.
Viscount Say & Sele.
Viscount Townshend.
Viscount Stormont.
Viscount Wentworth.
Viscount Courtenay.
Viscount Dudley & Ward.
Viscount Hampden.
Ds. Le Despencer.
Ds. Abergavenny.
Ds. De Ferrars.
Ds. Willoughby Br.
Ds. Paget.
Ds. St. John Blet.
Ds. Craven.
Ds. Osborne.
Ds. Onslow.
Ds. Romney.
Ds. Cadogan.
Ds. King.
Ds. Monson.
Ds. Godolphin.
Ds. Montfort.
Ds. Edgcumbe.
Ds. Sandys.
Ds. Fortescue.
Ds. Ravensworth.
Ds. Ponsonby.
Ds. Walpole.
Ds. Wycombe.
Ds. Grantham.
Ds. Scarsdale.
Ds. Boston.
Ds. Pelham.
Ds. Beaulieu.
Ds. Camden.
Ds. Digby.
Ds. Sundridge.
Ds. Amherst.
Ds. Brownlow.
Ds. Rivers.

PRAYERS.

E. Westmorland sat first in Parliament:

This Day John Earl of Westmorland sat first in Parliament after the Death of his Father John Earl of Westmorland; his Lordship having first at the Table taken the Oaths, and made and subscribed the Declaration; and also taken and subscribed the Oath of Abjuration, pursuant to the Statutes.

Pedigree delivered.

Garter King at Arms delivered in at the Table his Lordship's Pedigree, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Bp. Glocester takes the Oaths.

This Day James Lord Bishop of Gloucester took the Oaths, and made and subscribed the Declaration; and also took and subscribed the Oath of Abjuration, pursuant to the Statutes.

Banbury Road Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. St. John, and others:

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for enlarging the Term and Powers of an Act, made in the Twenty-sixth Year of the Reign of His late Majesty, intituled, An Act to widen and repair the Road from the Guide Post, near the End of Drayton Lane near Banbury, in the County of Oxford, to the House called the Sun Rising, at the Top of Edgehill, in the County of Warwick;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Keene's Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Henry Gough, and others:

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act to enable Mary Ruck Spinster, notwithstanding her Minority, to convey, assign, and settle her Real and Personal Estate on her intended Marriage with Benjamin Keene Esquire;" and to acquaint this House, That they have agreed to the same, without any Amendment.

Thanks to Bp. St. Davids for his Sermon.

Ordered, That the Thanks of this House be and are hereby given to the Lord Bishop of St. Davids, for the Sermon by him preached before this House on Friday last, in the Abbey Church Westminster; and that he be desired to cause the same to be forthwith printed and published.

Answer to Spanish Rescript, &c. delivered.

The Earl of Hillsborough (by His Majesty's Command) laid before the House, pursuant to an Address and Order of the 15th of December last for that Purpose;

"Copy of Lord Viscount Weymouth's Answer to the Rescript of the Marquis of Almodovar, of the 16th of June last;" And also, "A Copy of the Justifying Memorial of the King of Great Britain, in Answer to the Exposition of Motives of the Court of France:" Also, "A Copy of the Exposition of the Motives and Conduct of the King of France towards England:" Also, "Copies of Two Royal Schedules of the King of Spain, together with their Enclosures, and a Circular Letter, published in the Month of June last at Madrid, relative to the Disputes with Great Britain:" And also, "A Copy of a Manifesto of the Motives which have induced his Catholic Majesty to withdraw his Ambassador, and to act hostily against England, lately published at Madrid;" together with a List thereof; which was read by the Clerk, as follows; (videlicet)

No. 1. "Copy of the Exposé des Motiss de la Conduite du Roi, relativement á l'Angleterre."

2. "Exposition of the Motives of the King's Conduct respecting England." Translation.

3. "Memoire Justificatif pour servir de Reponse á l'Exposé, &c. de la Cour de France."

4. "Justifying Memorial, to serve as an Answer to the Exposition, &c. of the Court of France." Translation.

5. "Copy of the Manifesto of the Motives which have guided the Catholic King for the Manner of His proceeding with England, in Spanish; and a Translation in English."

6. "Copia de la Real Cédula publicada en la Gazeta de Madrid, No. 51 de 25 de Junio de 1779."

7. "Copia de la Declaration que el Marqués de Almodovar debe entregar al Ministerio Britannico à su despedida."

"En la Gazeta de Madrid, No. 51, publicada el 25 de Junio de 1779."

8. "Translation of a Royal Order, published in the Madrid Gazette, No. 51, June 25th, 1779."

9. "Translation of the Declaration which the Marquis d'Almodovar is ordered to deliver to the British Ministry before his Departure, published in the Madrid Gazette, No. 51, June 25th, 1779."

10. "Copia de la Real Cédula publicada en la Gazeta de Madrid, No. 52, del Martes, 29 de Junio de 1779."

11. "Translation of a Royal Order, published in the Madrid Gazette, No. 52, June 29th, 1779."

12. "Copy of the Answer transmitted to the Marquis d'Almodovar by Lord Viscount Weymouth, July 13th, 1779; and Translation thereof."

Ordered, That the said Papers do lie on the Table.

Girdley against Green, in Error.

The Earl of Mansfield, Lord Chief Justice of the Court of King's Bench, in the usual Manner, delivered in at the Table a Writ of Error, wherein

Thomas Girdley is Plaintiff,
and
Mary Green Widow, is Defendant.

Nesbitt et al. petition referred to Judges.

Upon reading the Petition of Susannah Nesbitt Widow, John Nesbitt, Henry Thrale, Bateman Robson and Arnold Nesbitt Esquires; praying Leave to bring in a Bill for the Purposes in the said Petition mentioned:

It is Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be, and is hereby referred to the Lord Chief Baron of the Court of Exchequer, and Mr. Justice Ashhurst, who are forthwith to summon all Parties concerned in the Bill; and after hearing them, are to report to the House the State of the Case, with their Opinion thereupon, under their Hands, and whether all Parties who may be concerned in the Consequences of the Bill, have signed the Petition; and also that the Judges having perused the Bill, do sign the same.

Stewart and Graham against Gardner, et al.

Upon reading the Petition and Appeal of Marjory Stewart, Sister and Representative of John Stewart deceased, and of Patrick Graham, Mason in Cupar, her Husband, for his Interest; complaining of Two Interlocutors of the Lords of Session in Scotland, of the 12th and 27th of January 1780; and praying, "That the same may be reversed, varied or altered; and that the Interlocutor of the Lord Ordinary there of the 25th of February 1779 may be affirmed, or that the Appellants may have such other Relief in the Premises, as to this House, in their Lordships great Wisdom, shall seem meet; and that Anne, Mary and John Gardner, Children procreated betwixt Thomas Gardner and Anne Dalrymple, Thomas Gardner, Administrator in Law to the said John Gardner, and Thomas Chriastie, Husband to the said Mary Gardner for his Interest, may be required to answer the said Appeal:"

It is Ordered, That the said Anne, Mary and John Gardner, Thomas Gardner and Thomas Christie, may have a Copy of the said Appeal and do put in their Answer, or respective Answers thereunto, in Writing, on or before Tuesday the 7th Day of March next: And Service of this Order upon the said Respondents, or upon their known Counsel or Agents in the Court of Session in Scotland, shall be deemed good Service.

Ross against Clerk.

Upon reading the Petition and Appeal of David Ross Esquire, Patentee of the Theatre Royal Edinburgh; complaining of Two Interlocutors of the Lord Ordinary in Scotland, of the 4th of February and 11th of March 1778; as also of Two Interlocutors of the Lords of Session there; of the 19th of January and 4th of February 1779; and also of another Interlocutor of the said Lord Ordinary of the 18th of January 1780; and praying, "That the same may be reversed, varied or altered, or that the Appellant may have such other Relief in the Premises, as to this House, in their Lordships great Wisdom, shall seem meet; and that Duncan Clerk, late of Tower Royal, London, now Tobacconist in Edinburgh, may be required to answer the said Appeal:"

It is Ordered, That the said Duncan Clerk may have a Copy of the said Appeal, and do put in his Answer thereunto in Writing, on or before Tuesday the 7th Day of March next; and Service of this Order upon the said Respondent, or upon any of his Counsel or Agents in the Court of Session in Scotland, shall be deemed good Service.

Sontag for a Naturalization Bill:

Upon reading the Petition of John Salomon Balthasar Sontag, praying Leave to bring in a Bill for his Naturalization:

It is Ordered, That Leave be given to bring in a Bill, according to the Prayer of the said Petition.

Bill presented

Accordingly, The Lord Scarsdale presented to the House a Bill, intituled, "An Act for naturalizing John Salomon Balthasar Sontag."

The said Bill was read the First Time.

Public Fxpen diture, Motion for Committee negatived:

The Order of the Day being read, That all the Lords be summoned to attend the House this Day, to consider of a Motion for appointing a Committee consisting of Members of both Houses, possessing neither Employment nor Pension, to examine without Delay into the Public Expenditure, and the Mode of accounting for the same, more particularly into the Manner of making all Contracts; and at the same Time to take into Consideration, what Savings can be made consistent with Public Dignity, Justice and Gratitude, by an Abolition of old or new created Offices, or Reversion of Offices, the Duties of which have either ceased, or shall on Enquiry, prove inadequate to the Fees or other Emoluments arising therefrom, or by the Reduction of such Salaries or other Allowances and Profits as may appear to be unreasonable; that the same may be applied to lessen the present ruinous Expenditure, and to enable us to carry on the present War against the House of Bourbon, with that Decision and Vigour which can alone result from National Zeal, Confidence and Unanimity:

It was moved, "That a Committee be appointed, consisting of Members of both Houses, possessing neither Employment nor Pension, to examine without Delay into the Public Expenditure, and the Mode of accounting for the same, more particularly into the Manner of making all Contracts; and at the same Time to take into Consideration what Savings can be made consistent with Public Dignity, Justice and Gratitude, by an Abolition of old and new created Offices, the Duties of which have either ceased, or shall on Enquiry prove inadequate to the Fees or other Emoluments arising therefrom, or by the Reduction of such Salaries or other Allowances and Profits as may appear to be unreasonable; that the same may be applied to lessen the present ruinous Expenditure, and to enable us to provide in the Manner the least burthensome for the indispensable Exigencies of the State."

Which being objected to;

After long Debate,

The following Amendment was proposed to be made to the said Motion; (videlicet)

Leave out the Words ("Members of both Houses") and instead thereof insert ("Lords")

The same was agreed to, and Ordered accordingly.

Then, the Question was put, "Whether to agree with the said Motion thus amended?"

It was resolved in the Negative.

DISSENTIENT.

Protests thereupon.

1st. Because however the Waste of Public Money, and the Profusion of useless Salaries, may have been heretofore overlooked in the Days of Wealth and Prosperity, the Necessities of the present Time can no longer endure the same System of Corruption and Prodigality.

The Scarcity of Money, the diminished Value of Land, the sinking of Rents with the decline of Trade, are melancholy Proofs that we are almost arrived at the End of Taxation, and yet the Demands are annually encreased, while the Hopes of Peace are every Year put to a greater Distance.

For let any Man consider the immense Debt encreasing beyond the Possibility of Payment, with the present Accumulation of Taxes, upon every Article not only of Luxury, but of Convenience, and even of necessary Use, and let him carry his Thoughts forward to those additional Duties, which must immediately be imposed to make good the Interest of the approaching Loan, and of that Debt which will still remain unfunded, he will find that at least One Million and a Half of Interest must, be provided for, besides what may be farther necessary to make good the Deficiencies of the late Taxes.

Under these Circumstances the Savings of a strict and vigilant Œconomy in every Branch, and the Application of overgrown Salaries, unmerited Pensions, and useless Places to the Public Service, are almost the only Resource left in the exhausted State of our Finances. But besides this strong Argument of Necessity, that presses upon the present Moment, such and so great are the Abuses in the Management and Expenditure of the Public Money as would call for the strictest Enquiry and Animadversion even in the best of Times. The Practice of expending immense Sums without Consent of Parliament under the fallacious Head of Contingencies and Extraordinaries, the greater Part of which might easily be comprized in an Estimate; but because some unforeseen Articles are not capable of such Precision, the Minister has, under that Colour, found out a Method of expending the Public Money, first ad libitum, and when it has been so expended, has found Means to induce Parliament to think itself bound in Honour to ratify and make it good, deserves the highest Censure; and no Minister who shall dare to stake the Public Credit for Money that has not been voted, ought to be justified by a less Authority than an Act of Indemnity. The Millions which remain in consequence unexplained and unaccounted for, the shameful Facility of admitting almost every Claim, the improvident Bargains made for the Public Service, the criminal Neglect, and even Contempt of the few Checks established in the Board of Treasury, besides great Part of the Money being shared in its Passage among a Tribe of Collectors, Clerks, Agents, Jobbers or Contractors, or paid away by official Extortion, or stopped in its Course to breed Interest for some engrossing Individuals, are Grievances which the present Motion has in View to remedy.

2dly. But great and important as the Motion is in this View of it, it is still more important in another, as it tends to narrow the wide spreading Influence of the Crown that has found its way into every Corner of the Kingdom.

It is sufficient to allude to this Grievance without any further Enlargement, but this Argument, though perhaps the strongest in favour of the Motion, has been turned into an Objection to it, as if it meant to abridge the Rights of Monarchy, and make the Crown dependent upon the Parliament.

If the Objection means to insinuate that Corruption is necessary to Government, we shall leave that Principle to confute itself by its own apparent Iniquity.

That this Motion is intended to diminish the Constitutional Power of the Crown, we deny. The Constitutional Power of the Crown we are no less solicitous to preserve, than we are to annihilate its unconstitutional Influence. The Prerogative, rightly understood, not touched or intended to be touched by this Motion, will support the Crown in all the Splendor which the King's personal Dignity requires, and with all the Authority and Vigour necessary to give due Effect to the executive Powers of Government.

It has been argued, that this is not a proper Time for Reformation, when all the Attention of the Kingdom should be employed upon the War as the great and only Object in the present Time of Distress, to which we beg leave to insist, that the present is for that very Reason the properest Time, because nothing is so essential to the Conduct and Prosecution of the War, as the frugal Management of that Supply, by which only it can be carried on with any Prospect of Success. Nor ought the Plan of Œconomy to be any longer delayed at the risque of a general Bankruptcy, and from the History of this as well as other Countries, Times of Necessity have been always Times of Reform.

3dly. Because we conceive that the Mode of a Committee which might be to act with a Committee of the other House, and might, if necessary, be rendered durable, and vested with due Powers by an Act of the whole Legislature, might bring back the Public Expenditure to its Constitutional Principle, might devise proper Regulations for opening Contracts to the Proposals of every fair Bidder for reforming the Abuses of Office, and the Enormity of Fees, with a Variety of other Abuses, particularly that of large Sums of Money lying in the Hands of Individuals to the Loss of the State.

An Objection has been strongly urged on the Ground of an Apprehension expressed by some Lords, as if they seriously entertained it of its producing a Quarrel between the Two Houses of Parliament, in consequence of which the Public Business might be obstructed, by a Claim on the Part of the House of Commons to an exclusive Right of considering and providing for the Subjects of this Motion.

Such a Claim certainly cannot be supported as a consequence of the Claim of that House to originate Money Bills. Not a single Lord appeared to entertain an Idea that such a Claim would be well founded. In Truth the Objection supposes it to be ill founded, and that therefore this House will resist it, and yet it assumes that the House of Commons will advance and persist in this ill founded Claim. We cannot discover any Colour for such a Supposition, unless we were to adopt the Insinuations of those who represent the corrupt Influence (which it is our Wish to suppress) as already pervading that House. Those who entertain that Opinion of one House of Parliament will hardly think less disrespectfully of the other. To them it will seem a matter of Indifference whether the Motion is defeated by the Exertion of that Influence to excite a groundless Claim in the one House, or by a groundless Apprehension of such a Claim in the other. But we who would be understood to think with more respect of both, cannot entertain an Apprehension so injurious to the House of Commons, as that they would, at this Time especially, and on this Occasion, have advanced such a Claim.

The Motion has likewise been objected to on account of its disqualifying Persons possessing Employments or Pensions to be of the proposed Committee. We are far from supposing that the Possession of Place or Pension necessarily corrupts the Integrity of the Possessor. We have seen, and the Public have seen many illustrious Instances of the contrary; yet we cannot but suppose that the Public Expectation of Advantage from this Measure would have been less sanguine, if they had seen Persons possessing Offices selected to distinguish how far their Offices were useful, or their Salaries adequate; they perhaps would not think the Possessor of a Pension or Office, the sitrest Judge how far that Pension or Office had been merited or was necessary. We cannot, therefore, think the Motion justly exceptionable on this Ground. It rather appears to us to have been drawn with a proper Attention to Noble Lords in that Predicament, exempting them from a Situation which they must necessarily wish to decline.

We conceive ourselves warranted in the Mode proposed by Precedent as well as Reason, and it was stated to the House to have been recommended by the most approved Constitutional Authors who have written since the Revolution, but having offered to meet any other Proposition which might carry with it substantial Remedy, and no such being offered, notwithstanding the Time this Proposition has lain before the House, we cannot help considering the present Negative as going to the substantial as well as formal Part of the Motion, and hold ourselves obliged to avail ourselves of our Right of entering our Protest against the Rejection of the above Proposition.

4thly. We are further impelled to press this Motion, because the Object of it has been seconded, and called for by a considerable Majority of the People, who are associating for this Purpose, and seem determined to pursue it by every legal and constitutional Method that can be devised for its Success; and however some may affect to be alarmed, as if such Associations tended to disturb the Peace, or incroach upon the delegated Power of the other House, we are persuaded it has no other View but to collect the Sense of the People, and to inform the whole Body of the Representatives what are the Sentiments of the whole Body of their Constituents, in which respect their Proceedings have been orderly, peaceable, and constitutional. And if it be asked, what further is to be done if these Petitions are rejected, the best Answer is, that the Case cannot be supposed; for although upon a few separate Petitions, it may be fairly said, that the other House ought not to be decided by a Part only of their Constituents, yet it cannot be presumed they will act in defiance of the united Opinion of the whole People, or indeed of any great and notorious Majority. It is admitted that they have a Power to vote as they think fit, but it is not possible to conceive that so wise an Assembly will ever be rash enough to reject such Petitions, and by that Means cause this dangerous Question to be broached and agitated, Whether they have not broke their Trust? The Voice of the People will certainly be complied with.

Ministers may, as they seem to have done in a recent Instance, deprive any Man of what he holds at their Pleasure, for presuming to exercise his undoubted Right of thinking for himself on these or other Public Subjects; but it will not be wise in them to treat these Associations with contempt, or call them by the invidious Name of Faction, a Name by which the Minority in both Houses of Parliament have been so frequently and so falsely calumniated, because the Name so applied will recoil back upon themselves, when acting against the general Sense of the Nation, nor will they be able to represent these Numbers so respectable in Rank and Property (as they did but too successfully the discontented Americans) as a Mob of indigent and seditious Incendiaries, because the People to whom this is addressed, are the very People that are abused, and every Man bears within himself the Testimony of its Falsehood.

"The Ministers, on this particular Occasion, cannot deceive the People."

Fortescue.
Harcourt.
De Ferrars.
Beaulieu.
Courtenay.
Tankerville.
Camden.
Wycombe.
Abingdon.
Devonshire.
Richmond.
Portland.
Manchester.
Rockingham.
Derby.
Effingham.
Grafton.
Ferrers.
Cholmondeley.
King.
Abergavenny.
Stamford.
I. St. Asaph.
J. Peterborough.
Coventry.
Craven.
Pembroke & Montgy.
Fitzwilliam.
Rutland.
Scarbrough.
Temple.
Nugent.
Jersey.
Bolton.

DISSENTIENTE, without Reasons assigned.

Radnor.

For all the above Reasons except the Fourth.

Osborne.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Veneris, undecimum diem instantis Februarii, hora undecima Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.