House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 17 February 1607

Martis, 17o Februarii, 1606

Cloth Trade.

L. 1a. B. FOR the true making of Woollen Cloths.

Costs on Nonsuit.

L. 1a. B. To give Costs to the Defendant, upon a Nonsuit of the Plaintiff, or a Verdict against him.

Pelham's Estate.

L. 1a. B. For the better Enabling of Herbert Pelham, Esquire, to make Sale of the Manor of Swynstead, alias Swynshead, in the County of Lincolne, for the Payment of his Debts, and Advancement of his eldest Son's younger Children. *** [a]

Union with Scotland.

A long and learned Dispute touching the general Part of the Union (Naturalization) by Mr. Wentworth, Mr. Moore, and Sir Francis Bacon; which was the whole

Labour of this Day.

Mr. Wentworth: - first consider how we stand, and what the Law is. -

In E. I. Time, Bayliol had Part, and others Part. -

From E. III. Time, no Homage by Scotland. -

Fol. 225, in the Register, a Commission recipere ad fidem et pacem. -

42 E. III. It could not be made appear, which Part was in the King's Allegiance, which not. -

When it is only Subjection de jure, et non de facto, no Denizen by Birth. -

Whether any Alteration by the King's Coming. -

England and Scotland una et alia respublica; Scotland, aliena respublica. -

They acknowlege no Crown, no King, no Sovereignty, but that of Scotland; we none, but that of England. -

A Difference between the Person natural and royal. -

Terra subdita, else not Terra subditorum. -

Not Rex Angliae et Scotiae ; but, Rex Angliae, et Rex Scotiae: - Reges.

Remembered, that the King expressed it in a Speech, reported from his Majesty to the House, this Session; viz. " I would be loath to live to see the King of Scotland " do wrong to the King of England."

The King seised, in jure coronae, Scotiae; et, in jure coronae, Angliae.

If there be Two Regalities, how One Kingliness, One Kingship ?

Subject to him that is King of England; but not subject to the King of England. -

No Man hath seen God at any Time: Many have seen him that was God, Christ Jesus, that was God and Man. -

If the Sword of England subdue any Land, then in Subjection to the Crown of England; as H. II. subdued Ireland: - They ever since Naturals born. -

Conclusion: - If we think the Law not to be so, not to declare it so.

Mr. Moore: - No Book case can suit this; never any, such Precedent of Union. -

An Alien may purchase, and against all Men hath Right, but against the King. -

If you indict an Alien, you may say, " Out of the Obedience :" - These in Obedience. -

No Place can distinguish the King and his Subject. -

If a Scottishman commit Treason in Scotland, he may be tried in the King's Bench here. -

The King, of his own Power, may make them all Denizens. -

Conclusion: - If we naturalize them, necessary to have many Cautions. -

Cautions for ecclesiastical Promotions: - Cautions for our Lands; - For our Trades -

This is to be considered by Committee.

Sir Francis Bacon: - A Request, ut cum calculis suffragiorum sumant magnanimitatem reipublicae ; and not altogether think of their own private States and Conditions. -

Put off private Considerations, and raise our Thoughts to the Public State. -

Several Degrees of Good, and of Evil: - Wisdom, to avoid the worst of Evils, if not attain to the best of Good. -

Objection : - Surcharge of People: - Ne forte sufficiat vobis et nobis. -

Abraham and Lot; - when their Families grew great they divided.

This had been better not cited, if we take with it the Mischiefs that ensued by the Division. -

Object. - For the Argument of Two Pastures, &c. there is great Difference between Men and Beasts. - Cattle presently feed, take their Bit presently, &c. Men must have Stock, Means, Acquaintance, Time of settling, &c.

In this Spring-time of the King's Coming, how many Families planted. -

It is said, they are poor: - Men will shew their Poverty at Home, rather than in a foreign Country. -

No evident Token of Surcharge of People in this Kingdom : - Many great Wastes, surrounded Grounds, great Fishing, &c. -

If we be pent in England, there is Room abroad, &c.

- Ireland, Virginia, &c. -

Take away this Note of Foreigners, our Laws will come upon them unawares. -

If it had been a Conquest, but like Water into our Wine, - a Commixture ; and shall not we now be sensible, having it by a cheaper Mean ? -

Alien Friend, for personal and moveable Things, hath Remedy, though not for Inheritance. -

The Scottish Subject bound to defend us, fight for us, if there be Invasion, if we have War with any Nation. -

Pisa subdued by Florence. - Charles the fifth, his Expedition into Brittaine. - They revolted [a], being a Conquest of several Kingdom.

This like Province - Milan [b] - Normandy - Brittanie; - several Dukedoms in France: - No Revolt. -

A Noise of an Heptarchy here in England: - We know not, whether a Story, or a Fable ; because we are all united, and naturalized. -

If there be not a further Union, by Naturalization, the Nature of Things doth bear, that these Kingdoms must break. -

The last Point: - What we purchase: - Surety, Glory, Greatness ; though not Wealth. -

England, with Scotland united, with Ireland reduced, with Low Countries contracted, with Shipping maintained (Shipping, a voluble Monarchy) the greatest Empire that hath been heard of in many Ages. -

Money not the Sinews of War, but the Sinews of valiant Mens Arms. -

Spayne, that was Subject to Rome first, Carthage after, &c. - Dream of a Monarchy. -

We stand upon Pittances and Reckonings.