House of Lords Journal Volume 12
13 March 1671

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 12: 13 March 1671', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 12: 1666-1675 (1767-1830), pp. 454-456. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=12769 Date accessed: 20 August 2014.


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DIE Lunæ, 13 die Martii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

REX.

His Royal Highness the Duke of Yorke.
Arch. Cant.
Arch. Eborac.
Epus. London.
Epus. Winton.
Epus. Ely.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Petriburgh.
Epus. Carlile.
Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Rochester.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Lyncolne.
Epus. Chester.
Epus. St. Asaph.
Sir Orlando Bridgman, Miles et Bar. Ds. Custos Magni Sigilli.
Marq. Worcester.
Robertus Comes Lyndsey, Magnus Camerarius Angliæ.
Jacobus Comes Brecknock, Senescallus Hospitii Domini Regis.
Edwardus Comes Manchester, Camerarius Hospitii Domini Regis.
Comes Kent.
Comes Derby.
Comes Suffolk.
Comes Bridgwater.
Comes North'ton.
Comes Bristoll.
Comes Clare.
Comes Berks.
Comes Dover.
Comes Petriburgh.
Comes Winchilsea.
Comes Chesterfield.
Comes Scarsdale.
Comes Sandwich.
Comes Essex.
Comes Cardigan.
Comes Anglesey.
Comes Craven.
Comes Aylisbury.
Vicecomes Mountagu.
Vicecomes de Stafford.
Vicecomes Hallyfax.
Ds. Arlington, One of the Principal Secretaries of State.
Ds. Awdley.
Ds. Sandys.
Ds. Eure.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Petre.
Ds. Arundell.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Coventry.
Ds. Mohun.
Ds. Powis.
Ds. Hatton.
Ds. Byron.
Ds. Widdrington.
Ds. Lucas.
Ds. Bellasis.
Ds. Holles.
Ds. Delamer.
Ds. Ashley.
Ds. Howard Castle Rysing.

PRAYERS.

King's Answer to the Petition against Popery.

The Lord Keeper reported, "That both Houses of Parliament this Morning waited on His Majesty, and presented Him with the Petition against the Growth of Popery. And His Majesty was graciously pleased to return an Answer to this Effect:

"That He would presently issue out His Proclamation for the banishing of Popish Priests and Jesuits, and give Charge that the Laws against Popery should be put in Execution; and that He would take all the Care He could, for suppressing the Growth of Popery.

"That it was no Wonder, if he did make a Distinction between those who had newly changed their Religion, and those who were bred up in it, and had faithfully served His Father and Himself in the late Wars."

King's Consent signified to Arundel House Bill.

The Lord Steward signified, "That he was commanded by His Majesty to acquaint their Lordships, That the Bill brought into this House, giving Power to the Guardians of the Duke of Norfolk to make Leases for Years, of Arundell House, &c. was brought in by His Majesty's Knowledge and Consent some Time before."

Arundel House Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act giving Power to the Guardians of the Duke of Norfolke to make Leases for Years, of Arundell House, and of the Tenements and Goods thereunto belonging, and for new building the same."

ORDERED, That the Consideration of this Bill is committed to these Lords following:

L. Great Chamberlain.
L. Steward.
L. Chamberlain.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Bridgwater.
Comes North'ton.
Comes Berks.
Comes Dover.
Comes Petriburgh.
Comes Winchilsea.
Comes Scarsdale.
Comes Essex.
Comes Cardigan.
Comes Anglesey.
Comes Craven.
Comes Aylisbury.
Vicecomes de Stafford.
Epus. Winton.
Epus. Ely.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Carlile.
Epus. Rochester.
Epus. Chester.
Ds. Eure.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Petre.
Ds. Arundell.
Ds. Powis.
Ds. Hatton.
Ds. Byron.
Ds. Widdrington.
Ds. Lucas.
Ds. Bellasis.
Ds. Holles.
Ds. Delamer.

Their Lordships, or any Five; to meet To-morrow Morning, at Nine of the Clock, in the Prince's Lodgings.

Message from H. C. with a Bill; to remind the Lords of One; and for a Conference on the Boston Navigation Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Thomas Meare and others; which consisted of these Particulars:

1. To present a Bill to prevent the Growth of Popery; to which their Lordships Concurrence is desired.

2. To put their Lordships in Mind of a Bill depending in this House, for taking Accompts of the Money given for Relief of those Poor who suffered by the late dreadful Fire in the City of London.

3. To desire a Conference concerning the Bill for improving the Navigation between Boston and the River of Trent.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a Conference, as is desired; and their Lordships appoints the same to be presently, in the Painted Chamber.

Message from H. C. for a Conference about Merchants Ships Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir John Talbot and others:

To desire a Conference, upon the Amendments in the Bill for preventing the Delivery-up of Merchants Ships to Pirates.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a Conference, as is desired; and appoints the same to be presently after the Conference appointed this Day, in the same Place.

London Poor.

The Committee for London Poor are to meet To-morrow, at Three of the Clock in the Afternoon.

Yelverton's Bill.

The Earl of North'on reported, "That the Committee have considered the Bill concerning Mr. Nevill Yelverton; and have made some Alterations therein, which are offered to the Consideration of this House."

Which Alterations, being read Twice, were Agreed to; and the Bill ordered to be engrossed, with the Alterations.

Sir A. Hacket's Bill.

The Earl of Essex reported, "That the Committee have considered the Bill concerning Sir Andrew Hackett, and think it fit to pass as it is."

It is ORDERED, That this Bill be engrossed.

Additional Corn and Salt Measures Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for ascertaining the Measures of Corn and Salt."

ORDERED, That this Bill be committed to the same Committee as the Duke of Norff' Bill is.

These Lords following were appointed to report the Two Conference now to be had with the House of Commons:

L. Great Chamberlain.
L. Steward.
L. Chamberlain.
Comes Bridgwater.
Comes Sandwich.
Comes Anglesey.
L. Bellasis.
L. Holles.
L. Ashley.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference on the Boston and Trent Navigation Bill.

The Lord Great Chamberlain reported the Effect of the Conference with the House of Commons, concerning the Bill for improving the Navigation between the Town of Boston and the River of Trent:

"That the House of Commons agree to all their Lordships Amendments, except the First Clause in the Parchment marked (A), ending with the Words ["any Thing in the said Statute to the contrary notwithstanding"]; to which they do not agree, for these Reasons:

"1. Because it changeth the ancient Laws of Sewers through the Middle of the County above Fifty Miles together, and puts the Nomination of the Commissioners out of the Crown into the Country Gentlemen for ever.

"2. It is conceived that the ancient Commissioners of Sewers, being the Nobility and Gentry of the Country, will be as careful of improving a Navigation of such general Benefit as any Commissioners under a new Establishment, who may as well disturb the said Navigation as the former Commissioners.

"3. It is probable to discontent all the ancient Commissioners left out of this new Establishment, and occasion them to be negligent in their Jurisdictions, being disturbed in their ancient Methods and Sessions for Sewers: Besides, the Limits of the several Jurisdictions happen to be in the Middle of the Banks of Two great Fens, which between both Jurisdictions may probably be neglected; and Surveyors and other Officers of Sewers in the Fens will be at a Loss whom to attend, whom to obey, and confounded in case their Methods be several.

"4. There hath been always a great Care had to have but One great Commission of Sewers for all the Three Parts of the said County, to avoid clashing or interfering of several Jurisdictions, which is feared might happen in this Case, to the great Inconvenience of the Country. Further, it is observable, that in Acts passed for making other Rivers more navigable, the ancient Commissioners of Sewers are not changed, and yet the Works go on without Interruption."

The House, upon Consideration of this Conference, agreed with the House of Commons in their Desires.

and on the Merchants Ships Bill.

Next, the Earl of Anglesey reported the Effect of the Conference with the House of Commons; which was, "To let their Lordships know, That the Commons agree to their Lordships Amendments in the Bill to prevent the Delivery-up of Merchants Ships to Pirates, &c. except the Amendment following; videlicet,

"After the Word ["Part"], in the End of the 19th Line, leave out all to the Word ["of"] in the 22th Line, in which they do not agree, for these Reasons:

"Because Laws ought to be made with as great Equality as may be to all Parts of the Kingdom; but, if Encouragement should be given to ThreeDeck Ships only, London and Bristoll would have the Advantage, the other Ports not being capable thereof; for,

"1. The Charge of building such a Ship is so great, costing Eight Thousand Pounds set out to Sea, that they will not venture in the Out-ports so much Stock in the Hull of a Ship.

"2. Many of the Out-ports have not Depths of Water to harbour such a Ship.

"3. Neither can they lade so great a Ship from those Ports to any Parts of the World.

"4. Nor are they able to vent the Lading of such a Ship when returned with Foreign Commodities.

"So that, if they have not Two-Deck Ships of Force, they will venture in small Vessels, and thereby expose His Majesty's Subjects to Hazard, and the Stock of the Kingdom to Loss.

"Neither will they build Two-Deck Ships of that Force and Burden, unless encouraged thereto; for that such a Two-Deck Ship will cost, set to Sea, Four Thousand Pounds; which if they build, great Advantage ariseth to the Kingdom thereby:

"1. His Majesty's Subjects sailing in them are preserved from being Slaves.

"2. And the Merchants Stock from Damage by Seas and Danger of Enemies.

"3. The Trade of the Nation more certainly carried on.

"4. Commanders and Seamen will be brought up more fit to serve His Majesty, by failing in and managing such Ships, than in small Vessels.

"5. Thereby His Majesty's Customs upon imported Foreign Commodities will be the better secured.

"6. And such Ships are fit to serve His Majesty when He shall have Occasion for them; for that they will, as Men of War, well carry Forty Guns, and are of great Use in Fight, to squadron with His Majesty's greater Ships, as likewise in Chace, and to be employed as Convoys as Need requireth.

"And to incite the building of Ships of several Burdens (by greater and smaller Encouragements) is the Practice of neighbouring Nations; as, Sweden hath their smaller Half-free Ships under one Encouragement, and their greater wholefree Ships under another Encouragement; and, France in like Manner from 100 to 300 Tuns, and so upwards; and this not only to continue for Two Voyages, but while the Ships are in Being; the least of which Encouragements in Swedland is every Voyage more than the greatest here.

"Whereas their Lordships did alledge that the former Bill had nothing in it of Two Decks, be pleased to observe, that it allowed a Tenth Part to Ships of Two Decks and a Half, which Ships were convenient for Merchants, but not so proper for His Majesty's Service; for a Two Deck Ship, to which a Half Deck at a small Charge may be added (for which there is but a Twentieth Part of the Customs proposed), is fitter for a Man of War than a Two Deck and a Half of the like Burthen, for which in the former Act there was a Tenth paid.

"Therefore the Commons say, They have given Encouragement to Ships of Two Decks, provided they are of 300 Tun, mounted with 30 Guns."

The Lords, upon Consideration of the Matter of this Conference, and the Reasons offered by the House of Commons, do agree with the House of Commons, in leaving out the said Clause.

Message to H C that the Lords agree to those Bills.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Thomas Escourt and Sir Andrew Hackett:

To let them know, that the Lords do agree with the House of Commons in Matters of the Two last Conferences; one, concerning the Bill for improving the Navigation between the Town of Boston and the River of Trent; the other, concerning the Bill to prevent the Delivery up of Merchant Ships to Pirates.

Seamen, and Navy Stores Bill.

Hodie 1a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act to prevent the Disturbances of Seamen and others, and to preserve the Stores belonging to His Majesty's Navy Royal."

Ly. Read's Petition.

ORDERED, That the Report from His Majesty concerning the Lady Reade, and also her Petition, shall be read To-morrow Morning.

D. Bucks Privilege.

ORDERED, That those Persons sent for at the Complaint of the Duke of Bucks, and now in the Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, shall be brought to this Bar To-morrow Morning.

Houghton's Bill.

ORDERED, That the Bill concerning Mr. Houghton shall be read To-morrow Morning.

After a Question put, no Lords stirout of his Place.

ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That, after a Question is put, and the House hath voted thereupon, no Lord is to depart out of his Place until the House have either entered on some other Business, or upon Consideration of adjourning the House; and that this Order be added to the Roll of Standing Orders of this House.

March. of Worcester recommended to the King, for Money due to the late Marquis.

Upon reading the humble Petition of Margret Marchioness Dowager of Worcester; shewing, "That His Majesty is indehred to Edward late Marquis of Worcester, whose Administratrix the Petitioner is; praying, that this House would recommend her Case unto His Majesty:"

It is thereupon ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lord Chamberlain of His Majesty's Household, the Earl of (fn. *) Anglesey, the Lord Holles, and the Lord Ashley, be, and are hereby, appointed to recommend the Petitioner's Case unto His Majesty, from this House.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Martis, 14um diem instantis Martii, hora decima Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Origin. Englesey.