House of Lords Journal Volume 16: 15 June 1698

DIE Mercurii, 15 Junii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

Shaftesbury Work-houses, &c. Bill.

Hodie 2^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for erecting Work-houses and Houses of Correction in the Town of Shaftesbury, and for the better Employment and Maintenance of the Poor there."

ORDERED, That the Consideration of the said Bill be committed to the Lords following; (videlicet,)

Their Lordships, or any Five of them; to meet on Friday next, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon, in the Prince's Lodgings near the House of Peers; and to adjourn as they please.

Message from H. C. to return the Bill for settling the African Trade'.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Norris and others:

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act to settle the Trade to Africa;" and to acquaint this House, that they have agreed to the Lords Amendments made therein.

Tonnage and Poundage Bill, for the Expences of the King's Civil List.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for granting to His Majesty a further Subsidy of Tonnage and Poundage, towards raising the Yearly Sum of Seven Hundred Thousand Pounds, for the Service of His Majesty's Household, and other Uses therein mentioned, during His Majesty's Life."

Stampt Vellum, & c. Duties on, Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for granting to His Majesty, His Heirs and Successors, further Duties upon Stampt Vellum, Parchment, and Paper."

Duties on Marriages, &c. to prevent Frauds in collecting, Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for preventing Frauds and Abuses in the charging, collecting, and paying, the Duties upon Marriages, Births; Burials, Batchelors and Widowers."

Messages from H. C. with a Bill; and to remind the Lords of the One to stop the coining of Halipence, &c.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Brotherton and others:

Who brought up a Bill, intituled, "An Act for enabling Humphry Trafford Esquire to raise Four Thousand Pounds upon his Estate, for Payment of his Debts;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Also a Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Cox and others:

To put this House in Mind of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to stop the coining of Farthings and Halfpence for One Year."

Ordnance, for applying Surplus Money to, Bill.

Hodie 1^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for applying to the Use of His Majesty's Navy and Ordnance, the Overplus of the Money and Stores which were provided for the building Seven and Twenty Ships of War."

Messages from H. C. with Bills; and to return the one for Increase of Timber in The New Forest;

A Message from the House of Commons, by Sir Thomas Littleton and others:

Who brought up a Bill, intituled, "An Act for granting to His Majesty an Aid, by a Quarterly Poll, for One Year;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Also a Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Smith and others:

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the Increase and Preservation of Timber in The New Forest, in the County of Southampton;" and to acquaint this House, that they have agreed to their Lordships Amendments made therein.

Also a Message from the House of Commons, by Sir Rowland Gwyn and others:

Who brought up a Bill, intituled, "An Act for the better Encouragement of the Royal Lustring Company, and the more effectual preventing the Fraudulent Importation of Lustrings and Alamodes;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

and for a Conference about a Place for the Trial of Goudet & al.

And also to desire a Conference, upon the Subjectmatter of their Lordships Message the Eighth Instant, relating to the Trial of John Goudet and others, upon the Impeachments against them.

To which the House agreed.

Answer.

Then the Commons, being called in, were told, "That the Lords agree to a Conference, as desired; and appoint the same presently, in the Painted Chamber."

Managers.

The Lords following were named Managers of the Conference; (videlicet,)

Message from H. C. to remind the Lords of the Bill to encourage the Russia Trade.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Wm, St. Quintin and others:

To put this House in Mind of the Bill, intituled, "An Act for encouraging and improving the Trade to Russia."

Conference about a Place for the Trial of Goudet & al.

The Commons being come to the Conference, the Managers Names were read.

And the House being adjourned during Pleasure, the Lords went to the Conference.

Which being ended, the House was resumed.

And the Lord Steward reported, "That the Lords had attended the Conference; and the Commons said to this Effect; (videlicet,)

"The Commons having a Right, at Trials upon Impeachments, to come as a House, or by a Committee, as they shall think fit, have always had a convenient Accommodation prepared for them, as in the Cases of the Earl of Strafford and the Lord Viscount Stafford; and therefore may justly expect a convenient Place may be appointed for the Managers of the Impeachments against John Goudet and others, whereby they may be the better enabled to make good their Charge against them."

After Debate;

Lords insist upon their former Resolution about it:

This Question was put, "Whether this House shall insist upon their Resolution, signified to the House of Commons by a Message delivered to them the Ninth Instant ?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Protest against it:

"Dissentient.

"1st. Because the Managers of the House of Commons, may have Occasion, in Trials upon Impeachment, to have Recourse to Papers, Books and Records; which they cannot so conveniently make Use of in a Croud.

"2d. It seems as reasonable that some Provision should be made for their Convenience, and to protect them from the Croud, at the Bar of this House, as in Westminster Hall; the Judicature of this House receiving no Alteration by the Place to which they adjourn; nor could the Lords think so, when, even upon the Desire of the Commons themselves, in the Earl of Strafford's Case, being offered all imaginable Convenience at the Bar of this House, and finding themselves streightned thereby, the Lords appointed the Trial to be in Westminster Hall, on that Consideration as we conceive.

"3dly. The noblest Part of their Lordships Judicature may not only hereby be lost; but what has been hitherto thought One of the greatest Securities against Attempts upon the Constitution, by such a Discouragement of the Commons from bringing up Impeachments to the Bar of this House, will be very much weakened.

"Devonshire.
Stamford.
Haversham."

Committee to prepare Heads for another Conference of the Subject.

Lords Committees appointed to draw what shall be offered, at a Conference with the House of Commons, for their Lordships insisting upon their Resolution signified to the House of Commons, by a Message delivered them the Ninth Instant, and report to the House:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them; to meet To-morrow, at Nine of the Clock in the Forenoon, in the Prince's Lodgings near the House of Peers.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Jovis, (videlicet,) decimum sextum diem instantis Junii, hora undecima Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.