Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 11, 1660-1666. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.
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'House of Lords Journal Volume 11: 17 May 1662', in Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 11, 1660-1666, (London, 1767-1830) pp. 464-467. British History Online https://www.british-history.ac.uk/lords-jrnl/vol11/pp464-467 [accessed 19 April 2024]
In this section
DIE Saturni, 17 die Maii.
Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:
PRAYERS.
Bill to confirm Acts for draining the Fens.
Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for confirming and continuing Two Acts for the necessary Maintenance of the Work of draining the Great Level of the Fens."
The Question being put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"
It was Resolved in the Affirmative.
Bill to prevent the Exportation of Sheep, Wool, &c.
Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act against exporting of Sheep, Wool, Woolfels, Mortlings, Shorlings, Yarn made of Wool, Woolfels, Fullers Earth, Fulling Clay, and Tobacco Pipe Clay."
The Question being put, "Whether this Bill, with the Amendments, shall pass ?"
It was Resolved in the Affirmative.
Message to H. C. with these Bills; and for a Conference about the Militia Bill.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir William Chylde and Sir Nathaniell Hobart;
1. To deliver to them the Bill concerning the Great Level of the Fens, and desire their Concurrence therein.
2. To return them the Bill concerning Wool and Woolfels, &c.; to which their Lordships have agreed, with certain Amendments, and desire the Concurrence of the House of Commons therein.
3. To desire a present Free Conference in the Painted Chamber, concerning the late Free Conference touching the Bill for settling the Forces of this Kingdom.
These Lords following were appointed to manage this present Free Conference; and to consider of such Reasons as they conceive most requisite to fortify their Lordships Resolutions taken in this Business, to be offered to the House of Commons:
Message from thence, for a Conference concerning the following Bills.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Fretchvill and others:
To desire a Conference, concerning several Bills; videlicet,
1. Upon the Amendments to the Bill for restoring Advowsons.
2. Upon the Amendments to the Bill for the Poor.
3. Upon the Amendments to the Bill for Relief of Sheriffs.
4. Upon the Amendments to the Bill touching Accompts.
5. Upon the Amendments to the Bill for preventing of Theft in the Northern Borders.
The Answer returned was :
Answer.
That this House will return Answer by Messengers of their own.
Message to H. C. that the Lords agree to a Conference on the several Bills, though not usual.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir William Childe and Sir Nathaniell Hobart:
To let them know, that though it be not usual to have a Conference upon the Amendments of more Bills than One at once; yet, in regard of the Shortness of Time, the Lords do agree to a Conference, as is desired; and appoints it to be in the Painted Chamber, presently after the Free Conference is ended.
These Lords following were appointed to report this Conference with the House of Commons, concerning the Five Bills:
The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Free Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.
Adjourn.
Dominus Capitalis Justiciarius de Com. Placit. declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in post meridiem hujus instantis diei, hora tertia, Dominis sic decernentibus.
DIE Saturni, 17 die Maii, post meridiem:
Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:
PRAYERS.
The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference with the House of Commons; which being ended, the House was resumed.
Report of the Conference, concerning the Bill for restoring Advowsons, &c. taken away upon Compositions;
The Lord Mohun reported the Effect of the Conference with the House of Commons, concerning the Bill for restoring of Advowsons and Impropriations to those that compounded: "That the House of Commons have considered of their Lordships Alterations and Proviso to that Bill. They agree with their Lordships in the Alterations, with the adding of this Saving, videlicet, "Saving to all Persons, other than the said Trustees and their Heirs, and all claiming under them, such Right to the said Rectories and Premises as hath accrued before the 19th Day of May, 1662."
"And as to the Proviso for allowing of a Third Part to the Church, the Commons do not agree to it."
After Consideration hereof,
The Question being put, "Whether to agree to this Saving brought from the House of Commons?"
It was Resolved in the Affirmative.
And the Question being put, "Whether to agree with the House of Commons in rejecting this Proviso?"
It was Resolved in the Affirmative.
concerning the Bill for bringing Persons to Accompt;
The Lord Ashley reported the Effect of that Part of the Conference with the House of Commons, which concerned the Bill for bringing Persons to (fn. 1) Accompt:
"That the House of Commons agrees with their Lordships in all the Amendments, saving in Two Things:
"1. Not to leave out these Words ["And it is hereby enacted and ordained"]."
The Lords agreed with the House of Commons herein.
"2. To leave out these Words ["not pardoned or discharged by the said Act of Oblivion"]."
To which the Lords adhered.
concerning the Sheriffs Accompts Bill;
Also the Lord Ashley reported the Effect of the Conference with the House of Commons, concerning the Bill for easing of Sheriffs:
"That the House of Commons agree to all their Lordships Alterations in that Bill, excepting some Alterations which they have made in the Proviso; and some Alterations in the last Clause added by their Lordships, concerning the Limitations of the Continuance of this Act."
Which being read, and considered of;
The Question was put, "Whether to agree with the House of Commons in their Alterations ?"
It was Resolved in the Affirmative.
and concerning the Northern Borders Bill.
Next, the Earl of Derby reported that Part of the Conference with the House of Commons, which concerned the Bill for securing the Northern Borders of England from Rapine and Theft:
"To which they agree, with all the Amendments made by their Lordships, excepting to the Proviso added by their Lordships for bringing in the County Palatine of Durham and Newcastle with the Contribution; which they desire may be left out."
The Lords agreed with the House of Commons, to leave this Proviso out.
Message from H. C. with Bills; and for a Conference about the Militia Bill.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Thomas Littleton Baronet and others; who brought divers Bills:
"1. An Act for preventing the Melting of Silver Coin," formerly sent down to them, to which they have agreed without any Amendment.
2. They agree with their Lordships in the Alterations in these Bills following:
1. The Bill for the better regulating the making of Norwich Stuffs.
2. The Bill against the exporting of Leather, and Raw Hides.
3. The Bill against exporting of Sheep, Wool, Woolfels, &c.
Also the House of Commons desire a Free Conference, concerning the Matter of the late Free Conference, concerning the Bill for settling the Forces of this Kingdom.
The Answer returned was:
Answer.
That their Lordships will give a present Free Conference; and appoints the same to be in the Painted Chamber.
The Lords formerly appointed were appointed to manage this Free Conference with the House of Commons.
Message from H. C. for a Conference on the Bill for Money for Officers who served the King during the late Troubles.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by the Lord Bruce and others:
To desire a Free Conference, upon the Subject-matter of the late Free Conference, concerning the Bill for Distribution of the Three Score Thousand Pounds to the truly loyal and indigent Commission Officers.
The Answer returned was:
Answer.
That this House will return an Answer by Messengers of their own.
The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Free Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.
Report of the Conference concerning the Militia Bill.
The Lord Privy Seal reported the Effect of the Free Conference with the House of Commons, concerning the Bill for settling the Forces of this Kingdom:
"That there being now but Two Points in Difference between their Lordships and them; one, concerning laying of Penalties by Lieutenants and Deputy Lieutenants, to which they adhere for the Reasons formerly given by them; to which they add One more, which they have learnt from their Lordships Proviso wherein their Lordships have agreed, That the Distresses be taken by the Lieutenants and Deputy Lieutenants jointly.
"The other Point was, concerning the Way of assessing the Peers; to which they do agree with their Lordships, though they are not convinced by the Precedents cited by their Lordships, but only in regard of the Exigency of Time, and the Importance and Weight of this Bill."
The Lords agreed with the House of Commons in their Desire.
Message to H. C. about a Conference concerning the Bill for Money for Officers who served the King during the late Troubles.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir William Childe and Sir Toby Woollridge:
To let them know, that their Lordships will give a Free Conference, according to their Desire, touching the Bill for Distribution of Three Score Thousand Pounds to Commission Officers; and do appoint the same to be presently, in the Painted Chamber: Also to desire, that, after the same Free Conference, there may be a Free Conference concerning the Bill for Accompts.
Were appointed to report and manage these Free Conferences with the House of Commons.
The Messengers return with this Answer:
Answer.
That the House of Commons will give a Free Conference, as is desired.
The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Free Conferences; which being ended, the House was resumed.
Report of the Conference.
The Lord Privy Seal reported the Effect of the Free Conference concerning the Bill for Distribution of Three Score Thousand Pounds to indigent loyal Commission Officers:
"Wherein the House of Commons agree to all their Lordships Amendments, saving to the First of the Proviso added by their Lordships; that after the Word ["by"] in the 4th Line of the Proviso, leave out all the Words unto the Word ["as"] in the 5th Line, and insert instead thereof ["the Lord Chancellor or Lord Keeper of the Great Seal of England, the Lord Treasurer of England, the Lord President of the Council, the Lord Privy Seal for the Time being, or One of them, and such other Persons"]."
ORDERED, That this House agrees with the House of Commons in this Alteration.
Declaration on the Assessment of Peers by other Persons.
The Lords do declare, That they did consent to have Peers assessed and taxed for their Offices as the House of Commons sent it up, merely upon Consideration of the eminent Necessity of those well-deserving Persons that engaged for the King, and in regard of the Exigence of Time for the concluding of this Session; but with no Intent to make any Precedent, that Peers should be hereafter assessed by any but Peers! And this to be made known to the House of Commons.
Message to H. C. that the Lords agree to the following Bills.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir William Childe and Sir Thomas Escott:
To acquaint them, that this House have agreed with them in the Alterations in these Bills following; videlicet,
1. To the Bill for restoring Advowsons and Impropriations to those Persons that compounded.
2. To the Bill concerning Sheriffs.
3. To the Bill concerning preventing of Theft and Rapine upon the Northern Borders.
4. To the Bill for Distribution of Three Score Thousand Pounds to Commission Officers.
Osborne released.
ORDERED, That John Osborne, a Serjeant at Mace, being now in the Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, for his arresting of John Poole, a menial Servant of the Lord Bishop of Chichester, contrary to the Privilege of Parliament, shall be released from his Imprisonment, upon the Desire of the Lord Bishop of Chichester, now made to this House.
Message from H. C. for a Conference on the Highways Bill.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Thomas Meares and others:
To desire a Conference, concerning the Bill for mending the Common Highways.
The Answer returned was:
Answer.
That this House will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber.
Were appointed to report this Conference.
The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.
Report of this Conference.
The Lord Wharton reported the Effect of the Conference concerning the Bill for mending Highways:
"That whereas their Lordships sent down several Amendments and Provisos to that Bill, the Commons do agree to some of the Amendments, and to others they do not agree; and as to the Two Provisos, they do not agree, because they conceive they being to make Repairs, and altering of Bridges, it is to charge the People with Taxes and Assessments; which, they say, ought to begin at the House of Commons."
The Alterations and Provisos were read; and, after Consideration of them, the Lords do adhere to the said Provisos; and as to the Amendments, some the Lords do agree to, and to others they do not, but adhere.
ORDERED, To have a Free Conference with the House of Commons on Monday Morning, against which Time the Lords that reported this Conference are to prepare the Alterations according to the Sense of the House; and also to consider of giving them some Reasons of their Lordships adhering.
Report of the Conference on the Poor Bill.
Next, the Earl of Bollingbrooke reported the Conference with the House of Commons concerning the Bill touching the Relief of the Poor; and shewed wherein the House of Commons did agree with their Lordships, and wherein they did not.
And, after Consideration hereof, the Lords agreed as followeth:
That, in the First Skin, 33 Line, the Amendment adhered to by the House of Commons is to remain, putting in ["Five Pounds"] instead of ["Forty Shillings"].
To the Amendment concerning Masters and Servants, adhered to by the House of Commons, the Lords do not Agree to alter.
The Amendments in the Fourth Skin, 36 Line, Agreed; and the rest of the Amendments relating to Burgesses of Westm.
To the Amendments in the Ninth Skin, 22 Line, the Lords Agree; putting in ["Occupiers of"] before ["Lands"]; and after ["Inhabitants"] put in ["and all other Persons chargeable by the Statute of the 43th of Eliz."] concerning the Office and Duty of Overseers of the Poor.
And in the 30 Line, the Clause concerning reputative Fathers, &c. is Agreed to stand, except the latter Part from the Word ["Lands"] in the 45 Line.
In the Tenth Skin, 1 Line, the Words to the End of the 31 Line to stand as the House of Commons insists on; but from the 32 Line, the Words to be left out to the End of the Bill.
The Amendments to the First Proviso ending in the 13th Line, Agreed to.
The Second Proviso to be omitted.
The Third Proviso, concerning the Rights of the Dean and Chapter of Westm. to be added to the Bill; and at the End thereof add these Words, ["Provided, That this Act shall extend and be in Force until the 29th Day of May, 1665, and no longer."]
Message to H. C. for another Conference about it.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir William Childe and Sir Toby Woolridge:
To desire a present Free Conference, in the Painted Chamber, concerning the Bill for Relief of the Poor.
The Messengers return with this Answer:
Answer.
That the House of Commons will give a Free Conference, as is desired.
These Lords following were appointed to manage this Free Conference with the House of Commons:
The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.
Adjourn.
Dominus Capitalis Justiciarius de Com. Placit. declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Lunæ, videlicet, 19um diem instantis Maii, hora octava Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.