House of Lords Journal Volume 17
24 March 1704

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 17: 24 March 1704', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 17: 1701-1705 (1767-1830), pp. 512-524. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=14767 Date accessed: 17 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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DIE Veneris, 24 Martii.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Arch. Cantuar.
Arch. Ebor.
Epus. London.
Epus. Duresme, & Crew.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Norwic.
Epus. Petrib.
Epus. Cicestr.
Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Bath & Well.
Ds. Custos Magni Sigilli.
Comes Pembroke, Præses.
Dux Buckingham, C. P. S.
Dux Devonshire, Senescallus.
Dux Somerset.
Dux Richmond.
Dux Northumberland.
Dux Bolton.
Dux Marlborough.
Comes Carlisle, Marescallus.
Comes Jersey, Camerarius.
Comes Kent.
Comes Derby.
Comes Bridgewater.
Comes Leicester.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Rivers.
Comes Peterborow.
Comes Winchilsea.
Comes Kingston.
Comes Carnarvon.
Comes Thanet.
Comes Sunderland.
Comes Scarsdale.
Comes Essex.
Comes Anglesey.
Comes Berkeley.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Rochester.
Comes Abingdon.
Comes Plimouth.
Comes Portland.
Comes Torrington.
Comes Scarbrough.
Comes Bradford.
Comes Romney.
Comes Orford.
Viscount Say & Seale.
Viscount Townshend.
Ds. Bergevenny.
Ds. Lawarr.
Ds. Ferrers.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. North & Grey.
Ds. Grey W.
Ds. Poulet.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Mohun.
Ds. Byron.
Ds. Vaughan.
Ds. Culpeper.
Ds. Lucas.
Ds. Rockingham.
Ds. Berkeley.
Ds. Osborne.
Ds. Ossulstone.
Ds. Dartmouth.
Ds. Stawell.
Ds. Guilford.
Ds. Cholmondeley.
Ds. Lempster.
Ds. Weston.
Ds. Herbert.
Ds. Haversham.
Ds. Sommers.
Ds. Bernard.
Ds. Halifax.
Ds. Granville.
Ds. Gernsey.
Ds. Conway.
Ds. Hervey.

PRAYERS.

Observations of Commissioners concerning Public Accompts, Report about.

The Earl of Stamford, reported from the Lords Committees (appointed to take into Consideration the Report of the Commissioners, appointed by Act of Parliament Anno 1° Annæ Reginæ, for taking, examining, and stating, the Public Accompts of the Kingdom), as followeth; (videlicet,)

"The Lords Committees appointed to take into Consideration the Report of the Commissioners appointed by One Act of Parliament, passed 1° Annæ Reginæ, intituled, "An Act for taking, examining, and stating, the Public Accompts of the Kingdom," in Obedience to the Order of the House, have taken the same into Consideration.

"They could not enter upon the Examination of the First Article of the Observations of the said Commissioners, which relates to the Accompts of the Army according to their Intention; the late Paymaster of the Army having not given in his Answers to the said Observations, till some Days after the Sitting of the Committee.

"Their Lordships therefore proceeded to take under their Consideration, the next Head in the said Observations, which relates to the Accompts of the Navy; which they have carefully and fully examined; and do humbly take Leave to lay the following Observations thereupon before the House.

"As to the First Part of the said Commissioners Observations, relating to the Weekly Certificates; their Lordships examined Sir Richard Haddock Knight, Comptroller of the Navy, and Dennis Lyddell Esquire, Comptroller of the Treasurer's Accompts of the Navy, upon Oath; Copies of whose Examinations are hereunto annexed, marked Letter A: And do thereby find, That the said Certificates were transmitted by the Earl of Orford, late Treasurer of the Navy, in such a Form as did enable the Commissioners of the Navy with the Books in their Office, at all Times to know the Balance in the said Treasurer's Hands, and the several Species in which it remained; and that the Certificates required by the Instructions to the Treasurer of the Navy were not intended to check and comptrol the Ledgers, nor ever used to that Purpose by the Commissioners of the Navy.

"As to the several Omissions and Mistakes mentioned in the Fourth Observation of the Commissioners, Page 22, to be in the said Certificates, the said Commissioners having only in general Terms said there were such, without giving particular Instances; the Earl of Orford could not make any particular Answer to them; and therefore their Lordships have not been able to make any Judgement therein.

"Their Lordships are therefore of Opinion, the Form in which the said Certificates were sent by the late Treasurer of the Navy, did enable the Commissioners of the Navy with the Books kept at their Office, to check and know the Balances remaining in the said Treasurers Hands; and their Lordships do not find any Complaint was made by the Navy Board against the Form of the said Certificates, or that the Public hath in any Sort suffered thereby.

"Their Lordships taking into Consideration the Observation of the said Commissioners, touching the late Treasurer's not having duly exhibited his Ledgers to the Commissioners of the Navy, and the said Treasurer's Answers thereto; and having examined Dennis Lyddel Esquire, Comptroller of the Treasurer's Accompts of the Navy, upon Oath, as appears marked Letter B, do find, that the said Treasurer of the Navy's Ledgers were very voluminous; and that it has been a great Work done by the said Treasurer and the Navy Board in passing those Ledgers, which have been all signed and passed by the Commissioners of the Navy, in the usual and constant Form practised at the Navy Board. And their Lordships do also find, the keeping open Ships-books for Re-calls, several Years after they were paid, rendered it impracticable for the said Treasurer to make up his Accompts Annually. And, considering the Method in which the Ledgers must pass, the Greatness of the Work, and the Multiplicity of the Business, their Lordships are of Opinion, the late Treasurer hath not been wanting in the Performance of his Duty therein; and cannot but observe, the Earl of Orford has made up and passed all his Ledgers, when no other preceding Treasurer of the Navy, from the Year 1673, hath yet settled and passed his Accompts.

"Their Lordships also took into Consideration the Observation touching Imprests standing out and uncleared; but cannot find that it is the Treasurer of the Navy's Duty to compel or apply to any Person, to oblige the Parties concerned to accompt for the Money imprested to them; and, upon examining Robert Maddocks Senior, Esquire, formerly and now Paymaster of the Navy, upon Oath; and also Mr. Auditor Bridges, and others, who attended according to Order, as appears under Letter C, do find it was the ancient Practice, for the Treasurer of the Navy to bring to Accompt, in his Ledger, the Imprests paid by him within the Time of each Ledger. And their Lordships are of Opinion, it would be more safe for the Public, according to the ancient Practice, to have the Imprests, paid by the Treasurer of the Navy, allowed on his Ledgers in the Year wherein they were paid; by which Method, the Lord High Treasurer, or Commissioners of the Treasury, for the Time being, might examine into the Reasons for granting such Imprests; and Directions might be given to the proper Officers, duly to call upon the Parties to accompt for the Imprests granted to them.

"Their Lordships finding, by the Observations, that Mr. Anthony Sturt had not passed his Ledger, during his being Cashier of the Victualing under the Earl of Orford, late Treasurer of the Navy; to wit, from the Fourth of April 1689, to the 24th of November following, in the Time when Sir Richard Haddock Knight, Sir John Parsons Knight, and Alderman Sturt, were Commissioners of the Victualing: And though the said Mr. Sturt had not made any Answer to this Observation, nor any Person appeared for him, their Lordships being willing to be informed themselves, why the said Ledger was not passed in so many Years since the said Sir Richard Haddock was examined upon Oath, as appears by the Examination marked Letter D: And their Lordships do thereby find, that the Navy Board thought not themselves empowered till lately to pass that Accompt, because they had not a Privy Seal or Order for it.

"Their Lordships were desirous to have proceeded to take into Examination that Part of the Observations of the said Commissioners, relating to Mr. Phillip Papillon, Cashier of the Victualing under the late Treasurer of the Navy; but found they could not proceed therein, because the said Mr. Papillon (being a Member of the House of Commons) had not come to their Lordships, notwithstanding the Message sent from this House to the Commons, that he might be permitted to come to them. And here they must likewise observe, that none of the said Commissioners have come to them, though desired by a Message from this House to the House of Commons.

Vide Copies of several Papers, under Letter E, in the Examination.

"Their Lordships then proceeded to take into Consideration the Observation of the said Commissioners, relating to the Provisions supplied to the Fleet in The Mediterranean, in the Years 1694 and 1695, by Admiral Russel, now Earl of Orford: And do find, that the staying of the Fleet in The Mediterranean was unforeseen; and that the Earl of Orford did, in the most pressing Manner, solicit the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty to send a Commissioner of the Victualing, to take Care of the victualing the Fleet, as soon as he received Orders for wintering in those Parts; and do also find, that the said Provisions came out cheaper to the Public, than any that had been provided or supplied at Home or Abroad: And it appeared, that there were sufficient Vouchers, from the Pursers of the several Ships, for the Quantity and Species of the Provisions charged upon them; so that there was nothing to hinder the regular passing of this Accompt in the common Form, but the Want of Acquittances from the Persons of whom those Provisions were bought; all which, being Foreigners of divers Nations, would have made no Difficulty of giving Acquittances if it had been required, or even to have owned the Receipt of much greater Prices than were really paid.

"And therefore their Lordships, upon the whole Matter, are of Opinion, the Privy Seal was obtained meerly to supply a Formality in accompting, and cannot be suspected to have been granted to authorize or cover an unfair or untrue Accompt; but was only to justify the Auditors in passing the Accompt without such Acquittances, which in ordinary Cases are required.

"Their Lordships also took into Consideration the Charge of Interest on Tallies, and Orders upon the late Treasurer of the Navy, mentioned in the Ninth Observation of the said Commissioners, Page 26; and the Answer of the said Treasurer to the said Observation, with his Reply to the said Charge of Interest, thereunto annexed: And the Committee, being very desirous to be fully informed in that Matter, examined some of the Commissioners of the Navy, Dealers with the Navy, and others, upon Oath, as appears under Letter F; (videlicet,) Sir Richard Haddock Knight, Comptroller of the Navy, and Dennis Lyddell Esquire, Comptroller of the Treasurer's Accompts of the Navy, Sir Wm. Gore Knight and Alderman, Sir Stephen Evance Knight, Mr. Peter Joy, Mr. Ambrose Crowly, Mr. John Bellamy, and several other Persons. And it appeared to the Committee as followeth:

"First, That the Navy Board, in their Assignments on Bills, always directed out of what Tallies and Orders the said Bills should be paid.

"Secondly, That the Arrear of Interest due on Tallies and Orders at the Time of such Assignments ought to be allowed and paid, by the Treasurer of the Navy, to the Persons entitled to receive the Tallies and Orders, excepting where the said Navy Board's Assignments on Bills directed otherwise.

"Thirdly, That it is now the Custom in Practice in the Navy, to allow and pay the Arrear of Interest due on the Tallies and Orders, directed and assigned to be paid away by the said Navy Board as before.

"Fourthly, That the Dealers with the Navy, &c. did receive, from the late Treasurer of the Navy or his Instruments, the Tallies and Orders, without allowing or making any Discount or Abatement for the Arrear of Interest due from the Dates of the Tallies and Orders to the Time they received them, excepting where the said Navy Board's Assignments on the Bills directed otherwise.

"Fifthly, That the said Dealers with the Navy, &c. received the Orders of the Tallies with the Treasurer or his Instrument's Name to a Blank on the Back of them, until the late Act of Parliament for registering Tallies and Orders.

"And therefore their Lordships are of Opinion, That, since the Interest on the Tallies and Orders did belong (except when the said Navy Board gave Directions to the contrary) to such Persons as had a Right to receive them from the late Treasurer of the Navy, and that the said Interest was received by them or their Assigns; it cannot be reasonable to make the late Treasurer of the Navy, or his Instruments, liable to accompt for the Interest on any Tallies and Orders paid away pursuant to the Directions and Assignments of the said Navy Board, though they were issued and paid away with the said Treasurer or his Instrument's Name to a Blank on the Back of the Orders of Tallies.

"Their Lordships are further of Opinion, That, in Justice, some Method ought to be found out, for the Auditor's passing the said Treasurer's ultimate Accompt; especially since the Difficulties in stating the Interest Accompts (as are observed by the said Commissioners) makes it evident, he cannot otherwise pass that Accompt in many Years.

"And here their Lordships must observe, That the said Commissioners, in their Replies to the late Treasurer of the Navy's Answers, touching Interest on Tallies and Orders, do say, "They believe Instances may be produced, where Dealers with the Navy, or their Assignees, have taken, on the Receipt of Tallies and Orders, the Interest due thereon, in Part of their Payment:" To which the Earl of Orford answers, "He knows of no One Instance, nor believes any can be given, of its being done, without the Navy Board's Direction." And as the said Commissioners have not set forth any particular Instance; the Committee cannot but observe, that such a Method is very hard, where general Reflections are made, and not One particular Proof assigned.

"Their Lordships took then into Consideration the State of the Accompts of the Earl of Orford, late Treasurer of the Navy, made by the said Commissioners, as in their Paper N° 4; and finding therein, Mention is made of Poundage taken by the Paymaster of the Navy, for Slop Cloaths, Tobacco, Ministers Groats, Surgeons Two-pences, and Chest of Chatham, which, the said Commissioners conceive, the late Treasurer of the Navy ought to be charged therewith: The Committee proceeded to enquire into that Matter; and, in order thereto, summoned several Persons, who were examined upon Oath, as appears under Letter G; (videlicet,) Sir Richard Haddock Knight, Comptroller of the Navy, Dennis Lyddell Esquire, Comptroller of the Treasurer's Accompts of the Navy, Robert Maddocks Senior, Esquire, formerly and now Paymaster of the Navy, and William Beckford Esquire, Slop-seller, Mr. Edward Lawford, Mr. John Grandy, Mr. Christopher Godsalve, Mr. Nathaniel Dogget, and several others, formerly or now serving in the Navy; and it appeared to their Lordships, that, from the Restoration to the 27th of March 1699, it hath been the Practice, both before and after the Settlement of Salary to the Treasurers of the Navy, to pay Poundage to the Paymasters of the Navy, for the Defalcations of Slop Cloaths, Tobacco, Ministers Groats, Surgeons Two-pences, and Chest at Chatham.

"And Mr. George Dodington, late Paymaster of the Navy, produced to their Lordships several Accompts, stated with, and signed by, the Governors of the Chest at Chatham, whereby it appeared they had made him an Allowance of Poundage for the Monies by him collected for the said Chest: He likewise produced a Letter, under the Hands of the Governors of the said Chest, wherein they acquaint him, "They cannot increase the accustomary Allowance of Poundage made to his Predecessors;" Copies of all which are also contained under the aforesaid Letter G.

"It appeared to their Lordships, that, from the Time of the Restoration to November 1668, the Government allowed the Treasurers of the Navy 3d. per Pound, for all Monies issued and paid by them for the Service of the Navy: Which Poundage being found, upon the Increase of the Charge of the Navy, to amount to a very great Sum, was the Reason why the Government took this Poundage away; and, to prevent the Treasurers of the Navy from getting again the said Allowance of Poundage, these Words were inserted in the Instructions; to wit, "The Treasurers of the Navy shall for the future be paid by Salary, and not by Poundage;" but had no Regard to the Poundage taken by the Paymasters for Slop Cloaths, &c. And it appeared to their Lordships, that, from the Time of the Restoration to the 27th of March 1699, the Paymasters always took Poundage for Slop Cloaths, &c.; but the Treasurers of the Navy took no Poundage for the said Defalcations.

"It appeared further to their Lordships, that the Paymasters had no more Salary, for themselves and Clerks, than £. 350. per Aunum, till the 25th May 1699, when the late King in Council did, upon Consideration of His taking off the Paymaster's Poundage for Defalcations, allow the now Paymaster for himself £. 500 per Annum, besides £. 360 per Annum for Salary to Six Clerks.

"By all which it appears to their Lordships, that it has been a well-known and uninterrupted Practice, for the Paymasters of the Navy to take Poundage for Slop Cloaths, &c. ever since the Restoration, till the 27th March 1699; and without that Poundage, the Salary of £.350. per Annum formerly allowed them, could not be a sufficient Recompence to the Paymasters, and enable them to pay Salaries to the Clerks employed under them.

"Wherefore their Lordships are humbly of Opinion, That it is not reasonable, that the late Treasurer of the Navy, or his Paymaster, should accompt for the said Poundage. But their Lordships are of Opinion, the late Paymaster is justly entitled to the customary Poundage, for all Slop Cloaths, &c. by him abated and collected during his being Paymaster under the late Treasurer of the Navy, having had no additional Salary for himself or Clerks in Lieu thereof.

"And here their Lordships beg Leave to acquaint the House, That, upon the Examinations of several Persons upon Oath, touching the Practice of Poundage being paid to the Paymasters; their Lordships find, that Wm. Beckford Esquire, Mr. Lawford, Mr. Chaplin, and Mr. Godsalve, had been formerly examined upon Oath, as to that Point, by the said Commissioners; but they do not take Notice thereof in their Observations, but for what Reason does not appear.

"Their Lordships further proceeded to consider the Items in the State of the Treasurer of the Navy's Accompts made by the said Commissioners, and in particular that of £. 222,941. 14s. 9¼d. set forth in the Discharge of the said State in a gross Sum; but in the Earl of Orford's Answer, the same is divided and explained in particular Articles: To which their Lordships examined Mr. John Coupland; who affirmed, "The said Particulars of the said gross Sum were amply specified in the said Earl of Orford's Accompts, exhibited to the said Commissioners, as the same are set forth in the Answer of the said Earl of Orford;" and their Lordships find them to be of that Nature, that they do not see any Reason why they should not be allowed the said Earl of Orford on his ultimate Leidger.

"And their Lordships also further proceeded to examine the Balance of the said State made by the said Commissioners, and the Earl of Orford's Answers, with their Replies thereto; upon which it appeared to their Lordships, that, taking the Balance as the said Commissioners have made it, (videlicet,) £. 8903. 3 s. 2¼d. or, as the said Earl sets it forth, (videlicet,) £. 5058. 3 s. 0¼d.; that after all the Reflections which have been made upon the said Earl, he is like to be the First Treasurer of the Navy, since the Year 1673, that has regularly passed his Accompts; and the Balance to be accompted for does amount to no more than the Sum of £. 5058. 3s. 1¼d.; and it does not appear to their Lordships, that the said Earl can be justly charged with neglecting or abusing the Trust reposed in him as Treasurer of the Navy.

"Their Lordships beg Leave to acquaint the House, That, after they had gone throught the Examination of the Observations on the Earl of Orford's Accompts, and his Lordship's Answer thereunto; the said Earl acquainted their Lordships, "That, when he attended the said Commissioners, he desired them, if they were not satisfied with his Accompts, or any Thing therein was dubious, they would give him Notice thereof; and his Lordship would attend them, in order to clear the same as far as lay in his Power:" To which they agreed; and assured him, "If any Thing of that Nature happened, his Lordship should be acquainted therewith. "Which was likewise affirmed upon Oath by Mr. John Coupland, as appears under Letter H; but from that Time, to the delivering in their Observations to the Parliament, the said Earl declares, he never heard any Thing from them."

Examinations of Persons concerning them.

"Examinations taken by the Right Honourable the Lords Committees appointed to examine into the Observations, Answers, and Replies, given in to the most Honourable House of Lords, concerning the Public Accompts of the Kingdom.

"Die Veneris, 25th February, 1703.

"A.

"Examinations of the Commissioners of the Navy, touching the Treasurer of the Navy's Certificates.

"Sir Richard Haddock Knight, Comptroller of the Navy, and Dennis Lyddell Esquire, Comptroller of the Treasurer's Accompts of the Navy, sworn at the Bar.

"Mr. Lyddell being asked, "Whether they used to check and comptrol the Treasurer's Ledgers by the Weekly Certificates?"

"He said, "We do not make Use of them for that Purpose."

"Being asked, "Whether the Weekly Certificates were made up by the late Treasurer of the Navy, in such Form as you could know what was in his Hands?"

"He said, "The Treasurer's Weekly Certificates always shewed a Balance of what remained in his Hands on the Cashier's Side, at that Time."

"Die Sabbati, 11 March, 1703.

"Sir Richard Haddock being asked, "Whether the Certificates of the late Treasurer of the Navy always set forth a general Balance; and whether, by those Certificates, with the Books of their Office, they could know the several Species in which that Balance remained?"

"He said, "He could not so properly answer as Mr. Lyddel, who keeps a Check of the Accompts."

"Mr. Lyddell being asked the same Question:

"Said, "Yes, with the Books in our Office."

"Sir Rich'd Haddock being asked, "Whether he knew the Public had suffered by the Form in which those Certificates were sent; and whether the Public was more liable to be injured by that Form, than by what is now practised?"

"He said, "He believes not."

"Mr. Lyddell being asked the same Question:

"He said, "That he doth not know it hath suffered by that Form."

"Sir Richard Haddock being asked, "Whether he did believe the Certificates required by the Treasurer's Instructions were intended to check and comptrol the Treasurer's Ledgers?"

"He said, "It comptrols the Accompts; but doth not check the Ledgers."

"Mr. Lyddell being asked the same Question:

"He said, "He believes, not to check the Ledgers; but they are necessary to the Accompts in general."

"B.

"Die Veneris, 25 Februarii, 1703.

"Examinations of the Commissioners of the Navy, touching the Treasurer's of the Navy's Ledgers.

"Dennis Lyddell Esquire, Comptroller of the Treasurer's Accompts of the Navy, being asked, "Whether the late Treasurer of the Navy's Ledgers are very voluminous?"

"He said, "They are so."

"Being asked, "Whether they are more voluminous than others have been?"

"He said, "Most of them are so."

"Being asked, "Whether it has not been a great Work done, to pass these Ledgers, both by the Treasurer and the Navy Board?"

"He said, "Yes, it has."

"C.

"Die Sabbati, 11 March, 1703.

"Examinations of the present Paymaster to the now Treasurer of the Navy, touching Imprests.

"Robert Maddocks Esquire, Paymaster (formerly to Sir Edward Seymour and now) under the present Treasurer of the Navy, sworn at the Bar.

"Being asked, "Whether it was the Practice of the Navy, during his Time, when the Treasurer passed any Ledger for the Commissioners of the Navy, to allow therein the Imprest Bills paid him within the Time of that Ledger, excepting such as were cleared before the Ledger was passed by the Navy Board?"

"He said, "The Imprest Bills paid in any One Year were always allowed in that Year's Accompt."

"Mr. Auditor Bridges, Mr. Moody Deputy to Mr. Auditor Harley, attending the Lords Committee by Order, as likewise did Mr. George Dodington:"

"The Lords Committee asked them, Mr. Lyddell (Comptroller of the Treasurer of the Navy's Accompts) being present, "Whether it was the Practice heretofore to bring to Accompt, in the Treasurer of the Navy's Ledger, the Imprests paid by him within the Time of each Ledger?"

"Mr. Bridges answered, "It was anciently the Practice so to do; but knew not the Reason why it was discontinued."

"Mr. Dodington answered, "It was the Practice to bring Imprests Annually to Accompt, till the Year 1686, when Sir Anthony Dean and others were made Commissioners of the Navy; and then it was discontinued."

"Mr. Lyddell agreed, "It was the Practice so to do till the Year 1686."

"Die Sabbati, 11 March, 1703.

"D.

"Examination of Sir Richard Haddock Knight, Comptroller of the Navy, and formerly One of the Commissioners of the Victualing, touching Mr. Anthony Sturt's Ledger.

"Sir Rich'd Haddock aforesaid, being formerly sworn, was asked, "What are the Reasons why Mr. Sturt hath not yet passed his Ledger, during the Time of his being Cashier of the Victualing to the Earl of Orford?"

"He said, "The Navy Board thought not themselves empowered till lately to pass out Accompt, because we had not a Privy Seal or Order for it."

"Die Veneris, 25 Feb. 1703.

"E.

"The Earl of Orford produced to the Lords Committee, his Entry Book of Letters, with other Papers relating to the Victualing of the Fleet in The Mediterranean.

"It appeared by the Copy of a Letter, dated off of Malaga, the 5th September, 1694, to the then Lords of the Admiralty, that he received His Majesty's Orders, dated the 17th of August 1694, for the Fleet's continuing in those Seas, and wintering at Cadiz; and in the said Letter, among other Matters, are these Words; (videlicet,)

"The Care of providing Provisions and Necessaries in these Parts, and distributing the same to the Fleet, gives me a great deal of Trouble; and therefore, if any One of the Commissioners of the Victualing is more sit than another to perform that Service, I should be glad if you would send him to the Fleet, the conductive Part thereof being more than enough to employ the utmost of any Man's Pains and Time.

"And in a Copy of a Letter from Alicant, dated the 21st of September 1694, to the said Lords of the Admiralty, are these Words; (videlicet,)

"I desired you in my last, to send me One of the Commissioners of the Victualing to Cadiz; which you will give me Leave to remind you of; and that such One of them may be sent, who is capable in all respects to manage the Victualing of the Fleet, that I may be eased of the great Care and Pains that Affair has hitherto given me; which, I fear, has not a little contributed to my present Indisposition.

"His Lordship produced an original Certificate from the late Commissioners of the Victualing, a Copy whereof is as follows; (videlicet,)

"These are to certify, That of the Sum of Eightyfive Thousand Two Hundred Thirty-three Pounds, Two Shillings, and Eleven Pence Half-penny, charged to the Right Honourable Edward Russel Esquire, now Earl of Orford, on Account of victualing His Majesty's Fleet in The Mediterranean, under his Lordship's Command, in the Years 1694 and 1695, there was Twenty Thousand Five Hundred Thirty-two Pounds, Five Shillings, and Ten Pence, paid to the said Fleet in Money; (videlicet,)

£. s. d.
"To the respective Pursers of the said Fleet, for necessary and extraordinary Necessary-money the Sum of 3,653 2 4
"To the several Ships Companies, for Short-allowance of Provisions, the Sum of 16,879 3 6
£. 20,532 5 10

"For which Sum of Twenty Thousand Five Hundred Thirty-two Pounds, Five Shillings, and Ten Pence, there were Vouchers signed by the proper Persons, and delivered into this Office. Dated at the Victualing-office, the 6th Day of June 1701.

"Examined,
per T. Randolph.
Simon Mayne.
John Burrington.
Tho. Colby.
H. Vincent."

"His Lordship produced a Copy of a Certificate from Mr. Thomas Colby (formerly Assistant to the Comptroller of the Victualing Accompts of the Navy) now One of the Commissioners of the Victualing; which was as follow; (videlicet,)

"These are humbly to certify, That, in the Years 1672 and 1673, the Victualing of His then Majesty's Navy was in Contract, under the Management of Sir Thomas Littleton, Sir Josiah Child, Sir Dennis Gauden, Mr. Papillon, and others; for which they were allowed, for Victuals they supplied His then Majesty with to the Southward of the Latitude of 27 Degrees, the Rate of 8¾ d. per Man, per Diem; and in broken Proportions after the said Rate: All Extra Freights were allowed by His Majesty more than the aforesaid Prices. I do further certify, That the Pursers of His then Majesty's Ships were allowed, upon the Balance of their Accompts, in the Time of the said Contractors Management, after the Rate of Seven Pence per Man, per Diem.

6th June, 1701.

"Tho. Colby."

"His Lordship produced a Copy of the Report made to the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, by Mr. Brook Bridges, One of the Auditors of the Imprests; which was as follows; (videlicet,)

"May it please your Lordships,

"In Obedience to your Commands, I have perused and considered the Papers delivered in by the Commissioners for victualing His Majesty's Navy, relating to Admiral Russell's Accompt of Provisions, and a State thereof, which (by your Lordships Commands) I was required to make, according to a Calculation of 7 d. a Man, per Diem.

"To which the said Commissioners have been pleased to object; (videlicet,)

"1st Objection. That 7 d. a Man, per Diem, was only allowed to Contractors.

"Answer. I do not find so little as 7 d. a Man, per Diem, allowed at any Time to Contractors for Sea Victuals: Mr. Papillon and his Partners were allowed 8 d. a Day in The Chanel, and 8¾d. in The Streights, West Indies, &c.

"2d Objection. I have computed sized Fish at 8¼d. each; whereas Pursers were allowed but 4¾ d. until the Year 1694, and then but 6d.

"Answer. In the Year 1672 (Mr. Papillon being then One of the Contractors), I find 8¾ d. allowed on Pursers Accompts for said Fish.

"3d Objection. I have allowed for Biscuit at 1¾ d. per Pound Weight; whereas, till the Year 1694, Pursers were allowed but (fn. *) said per Pound Weight, and afterwards (fn. *) of 1¼d.

"Answer. The same Accompt for 1672 charges 1½d. per Pound Weight to Pursers; but, I must own, they have herein justly charged me with a Mistake, in the Computation of 395,363 Pound Weight of Rusk, which, at 1 3/8d. per Pound Weight, makes (as they say) but £.2265. 2s. 0¾d.: In Excuse of it, I can only say, it was not done wilfully; but, being prest to hasten in the Accompt, mistook the Fraction, and computed it at 1 5/8d.

"4th Objection, concerns the Proportion and Price of Raisins, to be allowed for Beef and Pork; which does not affect my Computation, but seems to infer, if Beef and Pork may be supplied there by other Provisions, at One Third of the Cost, no more should be sent than was absolutely necessary: This Objection also charges me with computing Beef at 9¼d. and Pork at 6¾d. per Piece; whereas Pursers, till the Year 1694, were allowed but 7d d. for Pork.

"Answer. By the same Accompt, for the Year 1672, I find 10d. allowed for Beef, and 7d. for Pork.

"5th Objection. I compute Pease at 4s. a Bushel; whereas Pursers were allowed, till 1694, but 2s. 4d. and afterwards but 3s.

"Answer. The same Accompt allows to Pursers 4s. 5d. per Bushel.

"6th Objection. The Quantity of Oil provided was sufficient for above 20 Months.

"This not concerning me, I refer to the Admiral's Answer.

"7th Objection. I compute Beer at 40s. per Ton; whereas Pursers have never been allowed more than 30s. Waste and Charges included.

"Answer. The same Accompt for 1672 allows £. 2. 11s. 3d. per Ton to Pursers.

8th Objection. The Auditor's Computation allows 18¾d. more than ought for Necessary-money.

"Answer. The Calculation I was required to make, was to satisfy your Lordships, whether the Accompt, as delivered in by the Admiral, or an Allowance at the Rate of 7d. a Man, per Diem, would come out easiest to His Majesty; and I thought it of more Moment to make a speedy Return, than to be over nice in the Calculation: But I stand corrected, and will do them right in the Balance.

"The Ninth Article is not objected to.

"10th Objection. That 7d. a Man, a Day, includes all Manner of Charges relating to the Victualing, as Cask, Iron Hoops, Biscuit Bags, Freight, &c.

"Answer. Mr. Papillon and Partners, though allowed at 8¾d. a Man, per Diem, and at the same Rate for broken Proportions, are allowed also for extraordinary Freight, Charges to Agents in distributing Provisions to the Fleet, Water Cask, Iron Hoops, &c.

"The following Deductions, amounting to upwards of £. 20,000. being grounded upon Mistakes, will scarce need a farther Answer; however, I will take Notice of them in their Order.

"The 11th, 12th, and 13th Articles, concerning the Proportions of Biscuit Bags, Casks, Iron Hoops, necessary for certain Quantities of Provisions, which I will not contend with them about; but must not allow that Contractors or Pursers supplied them at 7 d. a Man, per Diem.

"The 14th Article, concerning Necessary-money included in the 7 d. a Day, I either do not understand, or the Inference is very unreasonable: If the 6 d. a Month allowed for Necessary-money be cast into the 7d. a Day, why then should £. 2022. 15 s. 6 d. be surcharged? If they would have it thought it is not comprehended in the 7 d. a Day, they did prudently, not to speak plain in a Thing which must have been contradicted.

"The 15th Article makes a Doubt, whether 8d. per Month, allowed for extraordinary Necessary-money, was included in the 7d. a Day. If none of these Gentlemen had ever been Contractors, I should not much wonder at the Doubt.

"The 16th Article surcharges the Admiral's Accompt with Drawage-money, Adze-money, Portage, Cartage, Charges of Clerks, Contractors Profits, &c. all which they affirm are included in the 7d. a Day; and that for these, and some of the foregoing Articles, the said Accompt, naturally, reasonably, and moderately, ought to be surcharged with £. 21,649. 15s. 11d.

"I have acquainted already your Lordships, that there was never so little as 7d. a Man, per Diem, allowed to Contractors; that Mr. Papillon and his Partners (and I do not know that any other Contractors have served the Crown cheaper) were allowed 8d. a Day in The Chanel, and 8¾d. in The Streights; that the same Allowance is made for broken Proportions supplied by Pursers; and that the Contractors are notwithstanding allowed for extraordinary Freights, Charge of Agents, Water Cask, Iron Hoops, Biscuit Bags, &c. which will appear by Mr. Colby's Certificate, and the Accompt itself, which I have brought down with me: Therefore, I am humbly of Opinion, the Deductions are neither natural nor reasonable; but, with your Lordships Permission, will put it upon this Issue: There are some Contractors for Victualing, who have not yet passed their Accompts; and, I persuade myself, they are very moderate and reasonable Men; if these Gentlemen can prevail with the said Contractors to be content with 7 d. a Man, a Day, with or without these Deductions, I will readily subscribe to their Opinions.

"As a farther Evidence, that these Gentlemen do not think that 7 d. a Man, a Day, did comprehend the whole Charge of Victualing; I take Leave to remind your Lordships, that, in the Year 1691, they were pleased to deliver to your Lordships a Breviat of the Victualing for the Years 1690 and 1691, which was referred to Mr. Auditor Done and myself to examine; the Intention of it (if I mistake not) was, to satisfy your Lordships, that these Gentlemen had been very good Managers, in that their Victualing came under 20 s. a Man, per Month; and whatever it came at under that, was supposed to be saved; yet 20s. a Man, per Month, is above 8½ d. a Day; and in that Computation, the Harbour Victuals were comprehended also, which were never reckoned at above 6 d. a Day.

£. s. d.
"The Accompt, as delivered in by the Admiral, admits the Balance due to His Majesty to be 4899 5 9
"But computed at 7d. a Man, a Day, the Balance will be 3382 6 8
"The Difference is £. 1516 18 6

"All which is humbly submitted.

"This is a true Copy.

"B. Bridges."

"Die Veneris, 25th Feb. 1703.

"F.

"Examinations of some of the Commissioners of, and Dealers with, the Navy, &c. touching Interest on Tallies, issued by the late Treasurer of the Navy.

"Sir Richard Haddock Knight, Comptroller of the Navy, and Dennis Lyddell Esquire, Comptroller of the Treasurer's Accompts of the Navy, Sir William Gore, Mr. Peter Joy, Mr. Thomas Death, Mr. Ambrose Crowley, Sir Stephen Evance, and Mr. John Bellamy, Dealers with the Navy, &c. Mr. Henry Johnson First Clerk to the Comptroller of the Navy, and Mr. John Crawley First Clerk to the Comptroller of the Treasurer's Accompts of the Navy, Mr. William Hubbald, Mr. Henry Durley, and Mr. John Warfild, Instruments to the present Treasurer of the Navy, having been all sworn at the Bar:

"Sir Richard Haddock, being asked, "Whether, when they assigned any Bills to be paid by
the late Treasurer of the Navy, out of any
Tallies and Orders in his Hands, did their Assignments
on the Bills direct out of what Tallies
and Orders they should be paid?"
Mr. Dennis Lyddel,

They severally said, "Yes, we did."

"Being asked, "Whether they understood that the Arrear of Interest, due upon the Tallies and Orders at the Time their Assignments were made on the Bills, was to attend the Tallies and Orders, and ought to be allowed and paid by the Treasurer of the Navy to such Persons as were entitled to the Tallies and Orders, excepting where their Assignments on the Bills direct otherwise?"

They severally said, "They did understand that the Interest was to go along with the Tallies, except where otherwise ordered."

Being asked, "Whether it is now the Custom and Practice (excepting where their Assignments on the Bills direct otherwise), to allow the Arrear of Interest due on Tallies and Orders, at the Time when they made their Assignments on Bills, to such Persons who have a Right to the said Bills?"

"They severally said, "That it is now practised as it was in the Second Article."

"Mr. Lyddell being asked, "Whether, when any Tallies and Orders were issued, by the late Treasurer of the Navy, or his Instruments, to you, for any Bill or Bills assigned by the Navy Board, to be paid in Tallies and Orders; did you receive such Tallies and Orders from the late Treasurer of the Navy, or his Instruments, without allowing or making any Discount or Abatement for the Arrear of Interest due from the Dates of the Tallies and Orders to the Time you received them, excepting where the Assignments on the Bills direct otherwise?"

He said, "That what Tallies he received, he had the Interest attending the Tallies; and made no Discount to the Treasurer of the Navy, nor his Instruments."

"Then, being asked, "When Tallies were paid him, by the late Treasurer of the Navy, or his Instruments, whether the Orders belonging to the Tallies were delivered to him generally with a Name to a Blank on the Back of them; and did not he, or his Assignees, receive at the Exchequer the Arrear of Interest due on such Tallies and Orders, from the Dates of them, excepting when Assignments on Bills direct otherwise?"

"He said, "He doth not remember whether my Lord Orford, or his Officer, signed the Orders with a Blank on them, or whether they were filled up; but he received the Interest attending the Tallies."

"Sir Wm. Gore, Asked, "When any Tallies and Orders
were issued, by the late Treasurer of
the Navy, or his Instruments, to them,
for any Bill, or Bills, assigned by the
Navy Board to be paid in Tallies and
Orders, did you receive such Tallies
and Orders from the late Treasurer
of the Navy, or his Instruments, without
allowing or making any Discount or
Abatement for the Arrear of Interest, due
from the Dates of the Tallies and Orders
to the Time you received them, excepting
where the Assignments of the Bills direct
otherwise?"
"Mr. Peter Joy,
"Mr. Thomas Death,
"Mr. Ambrose Crawley,
"Sir Stephen Evance, and
"Mr. John Bellamy,

"They severally said, "That it has been so in Practice; and they never received the Tallies otherwise."

"Then being asked, "When Tallies were paid them, by the late Treasurer of the Navy, or his Instruments, whether the Orders belonging to the Tallies were delivered to them generally with a Name to a Blank on the Back of them; and whether they, or their Assignees, did not receive at the Exchequer the Arrear of Interest due on such Tallies and Orders, from the Dates of them, excepting when Assignments on Bills direct otherwise?"

"They severally said, "We generally had the Orders, with Blank Assignments of the Treasurer, or his Instruments; and they generally passed from Hand to Hand without being filled up, till the late Act of Parliament for registering."

"Mr. Henry Johnson, being asked the Two lastmentioned Questions:
"Mr. John Crawley,

To the former of them, they answered, "That they always received the full Interest upon all the Orders and Tallies that ever they received."

And to the latter of them, they answered, "That it was the general Practice; and they never saw it otherwise.

"Mr. Wm. Hubbald, being asked, " when Bills
assigned on Tallies and
Orders are brought to be paid
at the Treasury-office of the
Navy; whether it is now the
Practice and Custom, to allow the A
rrear of Interest due on such Tallies and Orders, at the
Time when the Navy Board
made their Assignments
on the Bills?"
"Mr. Henry Durley,
"Mr. John Warfild,

"They severally said, "It is now the Practice."

Die Sabbati, 11° Martii, 1703.

"G.

"Examinations of some of the Commissioners of the Navy, the now Pay-master of the Navy, the Slop-seller, and his Book-keeper, several of the Pursers, Surgeons, and other Persons, lately, or now, serving in the Navy, touching Poundage paid to the Paymasters of the Navy.

Sir Richard Haddock Knight, Comptroller of the Navy, Dennis Lyddell Esquire, Comptroller of the Treasurer of the Navy's Accompts, Robert Maddocks Senior Esquire, Paymaster to Sir Thomas Osborne (now Duke of Leeds), and Sir Edward Seymour formerly, and Sir Thomas Littleton now, Treasurers of the Navy, William Beckford Esquire, Slop-seller, and Mr. Joseph Mosely his Book-keeper; Mr. Edward Lawford, Mr. Richard Chaplin, Mr. Christopher Godsalve, Mr. John Grundy, Mr. Nathaniel Dogget, and Mr. Henry Carter, Pursers and Surgeons, lately or now serving in the Navy; Mr. Richard Uthwait, and Captain Hugh Ridley, formerly serving in the Navy; all of them having been sworn at the Bar:

"Sir Richard Haddock being asked, "How long he hath been in the Service?"

"He said, "He hath been so ever since the Year 1652."

"And being asked, "What he hath known, heard, or understood, as to the Custom of paying Poundage to the Pay-masters of the Navy, for Slop-cloaths, Tobacco, Ministers Groats, Surgeons Two-pences, and Chest at Chatham; and for how long he hath known, or heard, that the said Poundage hath been accustomed to be paid?"

"He said, "He hath heard all along, ever since the Year 1673, that Poundage hath been received by the Pay-master."

"Mr. Lyddell being asked the same Question:

"Said, "He hath heard, ever since he knew the Navy (which hath been Thirty Years), that it hath been practised, till about the Time of the Vote of the House of Commons."

"Mr. Robert Maddocks Senior, being asked, "In what Year he began to serve the Navy?"

"Said, "He came into the Treasury of the Navy in the Year 1652."

"Being asked, "Whether he ever heard, or knew, from the Time of the Restoration, of any of the Treasurers of the Navy taking Poundage for Defalcations?"

"He said, "He never knew of any."

"Being asked, "What he knew, or heard, of the Government's allowing the Treasurers of the Navy Three Pence per Pound, of all Monies issued and paid by them for the Service of the Navy; and when did the Allowance determine, and the Salaries allowed them in Lieu thereof commence?"

"He said, "From the Time of the Restoration it was taken, till November 1668: Then the Salaries began; because the King in Council found that the Poundage, upon the Increase of the Navy, became very extravagant."

"Being asked, "What he hath known, or heard, from the Time of the Restoration, concerning Poundage paid the Pay-masters of the Navy, for collecting Defalcations, before he was Pay-master of the Navy?"

"He said, "It was always allowed, from the Time of the Restoration, without any Manner of Exception or Complaint."

"Being asked, "What Salary per Annum he had, for himself and Clerks, during his being Pay-master under Sir Edward Seymour?"

"He said, "Three Hundred and Fifty Pounds per Annum; sometimes he had, in Time of Action, Eight or Ten Clerks, which he always paid himself, and which he was the better enabled to do, by the Poundage."

"Mr. Robert Maddocks Senior, being asked, "What Salary per Annum he hath now for himself, and how much for his Clerks per Annum?"

"He said, "Upon Sir Thomas Littleton's being made Treasurer of the Navy, the King in Council, increased the Pay-master's Salary to £. 500. per Annum, and with an Allowance of Six Clerks, paid by the King, upon Consideration of His taking off the Pay-master's Poundage for Defalcations for the future."

"Mr. Wm. Beckford being asked, "What he hath known, heard, or understood, as to the Custom of paying Poundage to the Pay-masters of the Navy, for Slop-cloaths, Tobacco, Ministers Groats, Surgeous Two-pences, and Chest at Chatham; for how long Time he hath known, or heard, that the said Poundage hath been accustomed to be paid?"

"He said, "He hath paid it these 17 Years, till the last 4 Years; and he knew by his Father's Books of Accompts, that he paid it before him." He said, "He was examined upon Oath by the Commissioners for taking the Public Accompts; and he answered to the same Effect."

"Mr. Edward Lawford, being asked the last-mentioned Question:

"Said, "He had been in the Navy 24 Years; and he knows, that as to Tobacco, Poundage was always taken till the Year 1697 or 1698." And he said, "That when he was examined upon Oath by the Commissioners of Accompts, he answered them to the same Effect he hath now done."

"Mr. Richard Chaplin, being asked the same Question:

"Said, "He came into the Navy in the Year 1689, as Master Surgeon; and he hath known it by his own Knowledge from that Time, and by Report many Years before." He said, "He hath been examined by the Commissioners of Accompts; and he said the same there as he now doth."

"Mr. Christopher Godsalve, being asked the same Question:

"Saith, "He hath been 31 Years, last February, in the Service of the Navy; and he hath known Poundage paid ever since he knew the Navy, till the Order of Council about Four Years since. And he hath been examined by the Commissioners for Accompts; and answered to the same Effect."

"Mr. John Grundy, being asked the same Question:
"Mr. Joseph Mosely,
"Mr. Hugh Ridley,
"Mr. Richard Uthwat,
"Mr. Nath'l Doggett,
"Mr. Henry Carter,

"Severally said, "Ever since they belonged to the Navy, till about Four Years since."

"And being asked, "In what Year they began to serve in the Navy?"

"Mr. Mosely said, "He hath belonged to the Navy about Forty Years."

"Mr. Ridley said, "He hath belonged thereto about 41 Years."

"Mr. Uthwat said, "About 22 or 23 Years."

"Mr. Dogget said, "About 53 or 54 Years."

"Mr. Carter said, "About 46 Years."

"Die Sabbati, 11th March 1703.

"Mr. George Dodington, Paymaster to the late Treasurer of the Navy, produced to the Lords Committee Three Accompts, stated with, and allowed by, the Governors of the Chest at Chatham; (videlicet,) for the Year 1683, 1686, and 1687, in the Treasurership of the late Lord Viscount Falkland; and also a like Accompt for the Year 1689, in the Treasurership of the Right Honourable the Earl of Orford: Copies whereof are as follow; (videlicet,)

"A State of the Accompt of the Chest of Ships, Guard-ships, and Ordinaries, paid by George Dodington Esquire, Paymaster of His Majesty's Navy, between the 1st of October 1682, and the 31th of December 1683.

Debtor.
£. s. d.
"To Chest and Neglect, abated on the Ships
and Yards Books, paid within the aforesaid Time,
1731 0 3
"To Surgeons Two-pences and Ministers
Four-pences, abated on the said Books,
1609 17 3
£. 3340 17 6
1408 11 8
"Balance, £. 1932 5 10
Creditor.
£. s. d.
By Two-pences and Four-pences, paid to the
respective Surgeons and Ministers belonging
to the said Ships and Ordinaries,
1367 12 3
By Four-pence per Pound,
for £.1731. 0 s. 3 d. being
the Money abated for Chest and Neglect,
0028 17 0
By the Allowance of 12d per Pound,
for £. 242. 4s. 10d.Surplusage
of the Two-pences and Four-pences,
12 2 3
£. 1408 11 8

"Richard Vittels.

"We, the Governors of the Chest at Chatham, do hereby allow of this Accompt; and do acknowledge to have received from George Dodington Esquire, Paymaster of His Majesty's Navy, the Sum of Nineteen Hundred Thirty-two Pounds, Five Shillings, and Ten Pence, being the Balance thereof. Dated 12th May, 1688.

Mr. George Dodington also produced the Treasurer of the Navy's Ledger, for the Year 1683; and in the voluntary Charge thereof, the Treasurer of the Navy is charged with the Sum of £. 1932. 5s. 10d. (being the abovesaid Balance) towards clearing the Imprests granted and paid to the Governors of the Chest at Chatham; which said voluntary Charge is signed by the Commissioners of the Navy undermentioned.

"Richard Vittels.
Robert Lee.
Philip White.
William Browne.
Johan Leake.
John Green.
James Gother.
J. Tippitts.
Rich. Haddock.
J. Sotherne.
25June, 1688."

"A State of the Accompt of the Chest, of Ships, Guard-ships, and Ordinaries, paid by George Dodington Esquire, Paymaster of His Majesty's Navy, between the 25th March 1686 and the 31th March 1687.

£. s. d.
"To Chest and Neglect, abated on the several
Ships and Ordinaries Books, paid between
the 25th March, 86 and 31st March 1687,
815 3 9
"To Surgeons Two-pences, and Ministers Four-pences, abated on the said-Books, 668 19 9
1484 3 6
634 12 6
"Balance, £. 849 11 0
£. s. d.
By Two-pences and Four-pences, paid to the
respective Surgeons and Ministers belonging
to the several Ships and Ordinaries. between 25th March 1686
and 31th December 1687,
618 10 4
By the Allowance of 4d. per Pound for
the Money abated for Chest
and Neglect, being £. 815. 3s. 9d.
13 11 8
By the Allowance of 12d. per Pound
for £. 50. 9s. 8d. Surplusage
of the Groats and Two-pences.
2 10 6
£. 634 12 6

"Ex. per D. L. now One of the Commissioners of the Navy.

"We the Governors of the Chest at Chatham, do hereby allow of this Accompt; and do acknowledge to have received from George Dodington Esquire, Paymaster of His Majesty's Navy, the Sum of Eight Hundred Forty-nine Pounds, Eleven Shillings, being the Balance thereof. Dated the 12th Day of May 1688.

"Wm. Browne.
Robert Lee.
John Greene.
Richard Vittells.
John Leake.
James Gother.
Philip White."

"A State of the Accompt of the Chest of Ships, Guard-ships, and Ordinaries, paid by George Dodington Esquire, Paymaster of His Majesty's Navy, between the First of April 1687 and 31th March 1688.

Debtor.
£. s. d.
"To Chest, and Neglect abated on the several
Ships and Ordinaries Books paid within the
Year 1687,
1065 4
"To Surgeons Two-pences and Ministers Four-pences,
abated on the said Books,
894 12
£. 1959 16 8
Creditors
£. s.d.
By two-pences and four-pences, paid to the respective Surgeons and Ministers belonging to the said ships and Ordinaries, 832 13 4
By 12d.per pound, as an Allowance for the Sulplusage of the Groats and two-pences. 3 1 9
By four pence perpound for £. 10654s.6½d. Chest and neglect. 17 15 0
853 10 1
"Balance, 1106 6 7
£. 1959 16 8

"We, the Governors of the Chest at Chatham, do hereby allow of this Accompt; and do acknowledge to have received from George Dodington Esquire, Paymaster of His Majesty's Navy, the Sum of One Thousand One Hundred and Six Pounds, Six Shillings, and Seven Pence. Dated the 20th July 1688.

"Ex. per D. L.now Commissioner
of the Navy.
Rich. Vittells. W. Browne.
Rob. Lee. Tho. Austen.
B. Tymewell, now
One of the Commissioners of the Navy.
James Edwards. Thomas Smitheck.

"Mr. George Doddington likewise produced an Original Letter from the Governors of the Chest at Chatham; a Copy whereof is as follows; (videlicet,)

"SIR,

"At our general Meeting this Time, to pay the Pensioners who receive Allowances from the Chest, we have been informed, by Mr. Lyddell and Mr. Tymewell, of the Service you do the Chest, in the careful collecting, and timely accompting with our Officer at London, for what comes under your Management, from the Seamen serving in the Navy; and should be glad it were in our Power of making you such Allowance for the same as you desire. But, upon Inquiry and Search into our Books, we can neither be informed, or find, that any greater Allowance has been given to your Predecessors, than what has been lately made you, at your last accompting with Mr. Lyddell. We are of Opinion, that your Service deserves a more encouraging Allowance; but at this Time, when the Chest is in Debt, and for Support of the Charge are furnished with Money by Imprest, we do not think it safe for us (or truly in our Power) to increase the accustomary Allowance, other than has been made. If the Improvement of the Revenue should at any Time become able to defray the Charge, and put us out of Debt, and be sufficient to enable us to make any extraordinary Expence, we believe, that Application made at such a Time may be seasonable. We are, Sir,

Chatham, 11th July 1689.

"Your most humble Servants,

"Rob. Lee.
James Edwards.
Tho. Smithek.
Tho. Austen.
John Torpley.
B. Tymewell, now Commissioner of the Navy.

"To Geo. Dodington Esquire, Paymaster."

"A State of the Accompt of the Chest, of Ships, Guard-ships, and Ordinaries, paid by George Dodington Esquire, Paymaster of their Majesties Navy, between the 1st April 1689, and the 31th March following.

Debtor.
£. s. d.
"To Chest, and Neglect abated on the Ships and
Yards Books paid in the Time aforesaid,
811 6 3 ½
"To Surgeons Two-pences and Ministers Four-pences,
abated on the said Books,
778 7
1589 13 7
665 3 11½
"Balance, £. 924 9
Creditor.
By Two-pences and Four-pences, paid
to the respective Surgeons and Ministers
belonging to the said Ships and Ordinaries,
645 0
By Four Pence per Pound, for £. 811 6s. 3½ d. being
the Money abated for Chest and Neglect,
13 10 4
By the Allowance of 12d. per Pound, for £. 133. 6 s. 11 d. Surplusage
of the Four-pences and Two-pences,
6 13 3
£. 665 3 11½

"Ex. per D. L. now Commissioner of the Navy, 19th July 1690.

"Mr. George Dodington also produced the Treasurer of the Navy's Ledger for the Year 1689, and in the voluntary Charge thereof, the Treasurer of the Navy is charged with the Sum of £. 924 9 s. 7½ d. (being the abovesaid Balance) towards clearing the Imprests granted and paid to the Governors of the Chest at Chatham, which said voluntary Charge is signed by the Commissioners of the Navy under-mentioned.

Octob. 1691.

"Rich. Haddock.
John Tippitts.
Rich. Beach.
D. Lyddell.
Cha. Sergison."

"Die Sabbati, 11 March 1703. H.

"Examinations of Mr. John Coupland, touching the Right Honourable the Earl of Orford's Request to the Honourable the Commissioners of Public Accompts.

Mr. John Coupland (sworn at the Bar) saith, "That when the Earl of Orford was before the Commissioners for Accompts, his Lordship desired them, That if they were not satisfied with his Accompts, or if any Thing therein was dubious, they would give him Notice, and he would endeavour to clear the same." They agreed thereto; and told his Lordship, "That, if any Thing of that Nature happened, his Lordship should be acquainted therewith," or to that Effect; and, to the best of his Remembrance, they said, "it was very reasonable." But he hath not heard since then, they ever sent to his Lordship."

To which Report the House agreed, and ordered as follows:

Report to be printed and published.

"It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Report made this Day, from the Lords Committees appointed to take into Consideration the Observations of the Commissioners appointed by a late Act of Parliament, for taking, examining, and stating, the Public Accompts of the Kingdom, and the Answers put in thereunto, with the Commissioners of Accompts Reply, and any other Matters relating thereunto, shall be forthwith printed and published."

Scotch Conspiracy:

The Order being read, for taking into further Consideration the Report from the Lords Committees appointed to examine into the Scotch Conspiracy, and the Papers and Matters relating thereunto: And it being proposed, "To address to Her Majesty, for a Pardon to "Sir John Macleane;" and Debate thereupon:

The House came to the following Resolution; videlicet,

Address for a Pardon for Sir J. Maclean:

"That, Sir John Macleane having made an ingenuous Confession to the Lords Committees appointed to examine into the Scotch Conspiracy, this House doth therefore humbly address to Her Majesty, to give Sir John Macleane as full and compleat a Pardon as may consist with the Safety of Her Majesty and Her People, and to provide for his Subsistence."

Order for his close Confinement discharged.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Order of this House, of the Two and Twentieth of February last, for the close Confinement of Sir John Macleane, now in The Tower of London, shall be, and is hereby, discharged.

Motion to declare Sir J. Macleane's Narrative and the Papers relating to it, imperfect:

Then the House went into Debate upon Sir John Macleane's First Narrative, made by him to the Earl of Nottingham, and presented to the Queen, the Cabinet Council, and this House, by the said Earl, at Her Majesty's Command.

And, after long Debate thereupon, and several Questions proposed relating thereto, this Question was stated; (videlicet,)

"That that Part of the Narrative relating to Sir John Macleane, and the Papers relating to his Examination, taken by the Earl of Nottingham, and laid before the Queen, the Cabinet Council, and this House, are imperfect."

Then this previous Question was put, "Whether this Question shall be now put?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Protest against the previous Question.

"Dissentient,

"Because the main Question seems to us to be the lightest Censure that can be passed on the Account of Sir John Macleane's Discovery, laid before the Queen, the Cabinet Council, and this House, by the Earl of Nottingham; which, we conceive, is very defective, as well in the Substance of it, as in the Form and Manner in which it was taken.

"It is not writ by his own Hand, nor so much as signed by him.

"There is no Mention made of what Questions were put to him, or of his Answers thereunto.

"There is no Notice taken of his Negotiations with the Ministers of the Court of St. German's, who were all acquainted with this Conspiracy, as Sir John Macleane has given in under his own Hand-writing to the Lords Committees; which, he acquainted them, he had told to the Earl of Nottingham.

"This Omission is of the greatest Consequence, in our Opinion; because the Papers given in by Ferguson and Lindsey seem contrived to make it believed, that the Court of St. German's have no Design to disturb Her Majesty's Government, during Her Reign; and that the Earl of Middleton does all he can to prevent Conspiracies or Designs against Her."

"Sir John Macleane also informed the Lords Committees, of the Correspondence intended to be carried on between him and the Earl of Perth; as also of the Correspondence to be settled by Frazier and Murray, of which he was to be informed by Robert Murray, and which, he told the Lords of the Committee, he had acquainted the Earl of Nottingham of; and yet there is no Notice taken of it in the said Account laid before the House.

"It being moved, by some Lords that were against the main Question, That Sir John Macleane should be sent for to the Bar, and be heard as to the Particulars objected to the said Account, and seconded and agreed to by other Lords that were for the Question, that he should be brought to clear the Matter:"

"The Motion for sending for him was waved, and the previous Question insisted upon.

"Somerset.
Essex.
Bergevenny.
Bolton.
Orford.
Richmond.
Gi. Sarum.
Sunderland.
Derby.
Torrington.
Rockingham.
Mohun.
So&mtilde;ers.
Carlisle, E. M.
Halifax.
R. Grey.
Stamford.
Scarbrough.
T. Wharton.
Manchester.
Rivers.
Herbert."

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the further Consideration of the Papers and Matters relating to the Scotch Conspiracy shall be adjourned till To-morrow; and all the Lords summoned to attend.

War and Delafay to attend.

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That Mr. Warr and Mr. D'lafay do attend this House To-morrow, at Twelve a Clock.

E. Winchilsea and L. Wharton, Injunction to prevent a Quarrel.

The House taking Notice of some Words that happened between the Earl of Winchilsea and the Lord Wharton:

The Lord Keeper, by Order, laid the Injunction of this House, upon the said Lords, not to proceed any further in that Matter.

To which they severally submitted.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Sabbati, vicesimum quintum diem instantis Martii, hora duodecima Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Sic.