House of Lords Journal Volume 62
18 May 1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 62: 18 May 1830', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 62: 1830, pp. 457-473. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=16350 Date accessed: 02 August 2014.


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Contents

Die Martis, 18 Maii 1830.
M. of Donegall v. Houlditch et al. Rowe v. The King, in Error. Emendat. per ordinem 11 Junii 1830. Beer Trade, Petition from Tiverton regulating. Sheffield Waterworks Bill, Petition against, referred to the Comee: All Lords added to the Com ee: Com ee to appoint a Chairman. British Spirits, Petitions from Tralee & Dungannon against additional Duty on. Bankrupt Laws Amendment Bill. M. of Hastings's Estate Bill. Beverley Road Bill. Dundee & Newtyle Railway Bill. Yeovil Improvement Bill. Sir G. Chetwynd's Estate Bill. Kingsbury Episcopi Inclosure Bill. Rickmersworth Road Bill. Cromford Bridge Road Bill. Watching, &c. Parishes Bill. Tweed Fisheries Bill. Dundalk Roads Bill. Australian Co's Bill. Richmond Bridge Account delivered. E. of Mexborough's Claim, E. of Hardwicke sworn to give Evidence on. Linen Trade (Ireland), Petition from Tuam for Protection of. Criminal Laws, Petitions for Alteration of: (West Bromwich:) London derry: Clonmel. Roman Catholic, &c. Worship, Petitions from Derby & certain Clergy against compulsory Attendance on. Southwold Harbour Bill. Rother Levels Drainage Bill, Petition against. 2d Report from Com ee on Expences of Witnesses on the East Retford Election Bill. Welsh Iron & Mining Co's Estate Bill. Standon Inclosure Bill. Bogs (Ireland) Draining Bill. East Retford Election Bill, Witnesses to attend. East India, &c. Trade, Petitions for opening & Inhabitants of Anderston: Dukinfield: Stalybridge: Witnesses to attend the Com ee. Limerick Hospital Bill, & Shannon Navigation Bill, Petition from Limerick against. Court of Conscience (Dublin) Petition of L. Ryan respecting. Cowfold Roads Bill. Portman Market Bill. Heigham Bridge Bill. Ideridgehay Roads Bill. Invernessshire Statute Labour Bill. Order for Lords to be summoned, discharged. Climbing Boys in sweeping Chimnies, Petition from Newark against Employment of. Insolvent Debtors, Petition of Magistrates of Montgomeryshire to be relieved from discharging of. Hungerford Market Bill: Dunham Bridge Bill: Caithness Roads Bill: Glasgow Royalty Extension Bill: Louth Roads Bill: London Assurance Companies Bill: Walsall, &c. Roads Bill: Sankey Brook Navigation Bill: Messages to H.C. that the Lords have agreed to the 8 preceding Bills. Sir W. P. Campbell's Estate Bill: Message to H.C. with it. Hamerton's Divorce Bill. Kidwelly, &c. Inclosure Bill. Little Addington Inclosure Bill. Waterford Roads Bill. Parochial Registers (Scotland) Bill. East Retford Election Bill: Witnesses discharged from further Attendance on it. Sheffield Waterworks Bill, Petition against, referred to the Com ee. Adjourn.

Die Martis, 18 Maii 1830.

DOMINI tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Ds. Lyndhurst, Cancellarius.
Epus. Londinen.
Epus. Lich. et Cov.
Epus. Carliol.
Vicecom. Arbuthnott.
Vicecom. Maynard.
Vicecom. Melville.
Vicecom. Lorton.
Vicecom. Gordon.
Vicecom. Goderich.
Ds. Dacre.
Ds. Arundell of Wardour.
Ds. Clifton.
Ds. Teynham.
Ds. Clifford of Chudleigh.
Ds. Colville of Culross.
Ds. Napier.
Ds. Belhaven & Stenton.
Ds. Boyle.
Ds. Monson.
Ds. Montagu.
Ds. Calthorpe.
Ds. Rolle.
Ds. Wellesley.
Ds. Fitz Gibbon.
Ds. Carbery.
Ds. Dufferin & Claneboye.
Ds. Dunalley.
Ds. Ellenborough.
Ds. Arden.
Ds. Hill.
Ds. Meldrum.
Ds. Prudhoe.
Ds. Glenlyon.
Ds. Delamere.
Ds. Bexley.
Ds. Penshurst.
Ds. Farnborough.
Ds. Durham.
Ds. Skelmersdale.
Ds. Wallace.
Comes Bathurst, Præses.
Comes Rosslyn, C. P. S.
Dux Norfolk, Marescallus.
Dux Richmond.
Dux Beaufort.
Dux Newcastle.
Dux Wellington.
March. Lansdowne.
March. Salisbury.
March. Bute.
March. Camden.
March. Cleveland.
Comes Winchilsea & Nottingham.
Comes Shaftesbury.
Comes Rosebery.
Comes Ferrers.
Comes Hardwicke.
Comes De Lawarr.
Comes Radnor.
Comes Hillsborough.
Comes Malmesbury.
Comes Wicklow.
Comes Caledon.
Comes Charleville.
Comes Manvers.
Comes Grey.
Comes Harrowby.
Comes Eldon.
Comes Stradbroke.
Comes Vane.

PRAYERS.

M. of Donegall v. Houlditch et al.

The Answer of Edward Houlditch, John Houlditch, James Houlditch and Francis Stubbs to the Petition and Appeal of The Most Honorable George Marquis of Donegall was this Day brought in.

Rowe v. The King, in Error. Emendat. per ordinem 11 Junii 1830.

Whereas Richard Radford Rowe, Plaintiff in a Writ of Error brought into this House with a Transcript of the Record of the Court of Exchequer Chamber in Ireland, affirming a Judgment of the Court of King's Bench in Ireland, affirming a Judgment of the Justices of Oyer and Terminer and General Gaol Delivery for the County of the City of Dublin, wherein Judgment is entered for The King, Defendant in the said Writ, has assigned Errors, alleging Diminution, and has prayed, "That His Majesty's Writ of Certiorari may be awarded on his Behalf:"

It is thereupon Ordered, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That His Majesty's Writ of Certiorari be forthwith issued out, (on the Behalf of the Plaintiff,) and directed in such usual Manner as in the like Cases is accustomed, for the more perfect certifying of the said Record into this House, within Ten Days next ensuing the Date of this Order.

Beer Trade, Petition from Tiverton regulating.

Upon reading the Petition of the Licensed Victuallers and Maltsters of Tiverton, in the County of Devon, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships, "That, in passing into a Law the proposed Bill for the encouraging and promoting the Sale of Beer, their Lordships will introduce sufficient Restrictions to prevent the Consumption of it on the Premises where sold, without the Sanction and Authority of the Magistracy:"

"It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table."

Sheffield Waterworks Bill, Petition against, referred to the Comee:

Upon reading the Petition of the Owners of Mill Property in and near the Town and Parish of Sheffield, in the County of York, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; taking notice of a Bill depending in this House, intituled, "An Act for better supplying with Water the Town and Parish of Sheffield, in the County of York;" and praying, "That they may be heard by themselves, or Counsel or Agents, and Witnesses, against such Parts and Provisions of the said Bill as affect the Petitioners Rights and Interests; and that the same, as it at present stands, may not pass into a Law:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Committee to whom the said Bill stands committed, and that the Petitioners be at liberty to be heard by themselves, or Counsel or Agents, and Witnesses, against the same, as desired; and that Counsel be heard for the Bill at the same Time, if they think fit.

All Lords added to the Com ee:

Ordered, That all the Lords who have been or shall be present this Session, and are not named of the Committee to whom the said Bill stands committed, be added thereto.

Com ee to appoint a Chairman.

Ordered, That the Committee to whom the said Bill stands committed do appoint their own Chairman.

British Spirits, Petitions from Tralee & Dungannon against additional Duty on.

Upon reading the Petition of the Members of the Chamber of Commerce of the Town of Tralee and County of Kerry, Ireland, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "not to encrease the Duty upon British Spirits without a proportionate Encrease of the Duty on Foreign Spirits in the Ratio laid down in the Year 1825:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Borough of Dungannon and its Vicinity, and of others, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships not to introduce an Alteration in the relative Duties on Home-made Spirits and West India Rum, which the Petitioners respectfully state would be most unjust and ruinous to Individuals, and most injuriously prejudicial to the Agricultural and general Interests of Ireland:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Bankrupt Laws Amendment Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to explain and amend an Act of the Sixth Year of the Reign of His present Majesty, for amending the Laws relating to Bankrupts."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Ordered, That the House be put into a Committee upon the said Bill on Friday next.

M. of Hastings's Estate Bill.

Hodie 2 a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for vesting the Settled Estates of The Most Honorable George Augustus Francis Rawdon Hastings Marquis of Hastings, situate in Scotland, in the said Marquis in Fee."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords following:

L. Bp. London.
L. Bp. Lichfield & Coventry.
L. Bp. Carlisle.
L. Dacre.
L. Arundell of Wardour.
L. Clifton.
L. Teynham.
L. Clifford of Chudleigh.
L. Colville of Culross.
L. Napier.
L. Belhaven & Stenton.
L. Boyle.
L. Monson.
L. Montagu.
L. Calthorpe.
L. Wellesley.
L. Fitz Gibbon.
L. Carbery.
L. Dufferin & Claneboye.
L. Dunalley.
L. Ellenborough.
L. Arden.
L. Hill.
L. Meldrum.
L. Prudhoe.
L. Glenlyon.
L. Delamere.
L. Bexley.
L. Penshurst.
L. Farnborough.
L. Durham.
L. Skelmersdale.
L. Wallace.
L. President.
L. Privy Seal.
D. Norfolk.
D. Richmond.
D. Beaufort.
D. Newcastle.
D. Wellington.
M. Lansdowne.
M. Salisbury.
M. Bute.
M. Camden.
M. Cleveland.
E. Winchilsea & Nottingham.
E. Shaftesbury.
E. Rosbery.
E. Ferrers.
E. Hardwicke.
E. De Lawarr.
E. Radnor.
E. Hillsborough.
E. Malmesbury.
E. Wicklow.
E. Caledon.
E. Charleville.
E. Manvers.
E. Grey.
E. Harrowby.
E. Eldon.
E. Stradbroke.
E. Vane.
V. Arbuthnott.
V. Maynard.
V. Melville.
V. Lorton.
V. Gordon.
V. Goderich.

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet on Friday next, at Two o'Clock in the Afternoon, in the Prince's Lodgings, near the House of Peers; and to adjourn as they please.

Beverley Road Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Stuart and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for more effectually repairing and otherwise improving the Road from Beverley, by Molescroft, to Kendell House, and from Molescroft to Bainton Balk, in the County of York;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Bill was read the First Time.

Dundee & Newtyle Railway Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Stuart and others;

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act to amend an "Act for making a Railway from Dundee to Newtyle;" and to acquaint this House, That they have agreed to their Lordships Amendment made thereto.

Yeovil Improvement Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir John Wrottesley and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for paving, lighting, watching, watering, cleansing, repairing, widening and otherwise improving the Streets, Lanes and other Public Passages and Places within the Town of Yeovil, in the County of Somerset, and for regulating the Police thereof;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Bill was read the First Time.

Sir G. Chetwynd's Estate Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir John Wrottesley and others;

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act for vesting certain Parts of the Real Estates devised by the Will of John Williams Esquire, deceased, in the County of Stafford, in Trustees, in Trust to carry into Execution a Contract entered into for Sale thereof, and to apply the Money arising from such Sale in Manner therein mentioned;" and to acquaint this House, That they have agreed to the same, without any Amendment.

Kingsbury Episcopi Inclosure Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir John Wrottesley and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for inclosing Lands in the Parish of Kingsbury Episcopi, in the County of Somerset;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

Rickmersworth Road Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Nicolson Calvert and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for more effectually repairing the Road from the Town of Rickmersworth, in the County of Hertford, through the Village of Pinner, to or near the Swan Public House at Sudbury Common, in the Turnpike Road leading from Harrow to London;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Two Bills were, severally, read the First Time.

Cromford Bridge Road Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Mundy and others;

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act for more effectually repairing and improving the Road from Cromford Bridge to the Turnpike Road at or near Langley Mill, in the County of Derby;" and to acquaint this House,

That they have agreed to their Lordships Amendment made thereto.

Watching, &c. Parishes Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Mundy and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act to make Provision for the lighting and watching of Parishes in England and Wales;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Bill was read the First Time.

Ordered, That the said Bill be printed.

Tweed Fisheries Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Pitt and others;

To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the more effectual Preservation and Increase of the Breed of Salmon, and for better regulating the Fisheries in the River Tweed, and the Rivers and Streams running into the same, and also within the Mouth or Entrance of the said River;" and to acquaint this House, That they have agreed to their Lordships Amendments made thereto.

Dundalk Roads Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. North and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act for repairing and maintaining the Roads from the Town of Dundalk, in the County of Louth, to the Towns of Castle Blayney and Carrickmacross, in the County of Monaghan;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Bill was read the First Time.

Australian Co's Bill.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Pitt and others;

With a Bill, intituled, "An Act to amend an Act for granting certain Powers and Authorities to a Company to be incorporated by Charter, to be called "The Australian Agricultural Company," for the Cultivation and Improvement of Waste Lands in the Colony of New South Wales; and for other Purposes relating thereto;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

The said Bill was read the First Time.

Ordered, That the said Bill be printed.

Richmond Bridge Account delivered.

The House being informed, "That Mr. William Smith, from the Commissioners of Richmond Bridge, attended;"

He was called in; and delivered at the Bar, pursuant to the Directions of an Act of Parliament,

"Richmond Bridge Cash Account 1829."

And then he withdrew.

And the Title thereof being read by the Clerk;

Ordered, That the said Account do lie on the Table.

E. of Mexborough's Claim, E. of Hardwicke sworn to give Evidence on.

The Earl of Hardwicke was sworn, at the Table, by The Lord Chancellor, to give Evidence before the Committee for Privileges to whom the Petition of John Earl of Mexborough, claiming a Right to vote at the Election of Peers of Ireland to sit in the Parliament of the United Kingdom, and praying, "That his said Right may be admitted by their Lordships," stands referred.

Linen Trade (Ireland), Petition from Tuam for Protection of.

Upon reading the Petition of the Gentlemen, Traders and Linen Manufacturers of the Town of Tuam, in the County of Galway, Ireland, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying, "That their Lordships will be pleased to take the present ruined State of the Linen Trade into their most serious Consideration, and apply such Remedy to its Relief as will insure a Return of it to its former Vigour, which will bring Wealth to the Empire and afford Employment to the Petitioners:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Criminal Laws, Petitions for Alteration of: (West Bromwich:)

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitant Householders of the Parish of West Bromwich, in the County of Stafford, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships, "That the Penalty of Death for the Crime of Forgery may be commuted for such other Punishment as the Wisdom of their Lordships, in conjunction with the other Branches of the Legislature, shall determine to be justly proportioned to its Guilt, and sufficient for the Protection of the Community:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

London derry:

Upon reading the Petition of the Local Directors and Manager of the Provincial Bank of Ireland at Londonderry, whose Names are thereunto subscribed:

Clonmel.

And also, Upon reading the Petition of the Local Directors and Manager of the Provincial Bank of Ireland at Clonmel, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; severally praying, "That their Lordships will not withhold from them that Protection to their Property which they would derive from a more lenient Law than that inflicting Death for Forgery:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petitions do lie on the Table.

Roman Catholic, &c. Worship, Petitions from Derby & certain Clergy against compulsory Attendance on.

Upon reading the Petition of the Magistrates, Clergy and Inhabitants of the Town of Derby and its Neighbourhood, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to take such Steps as may lead to a Discontinuance of forcing Protestants holding Civil and Military Situations under the Crown to engage in the Idolatrous Services of the Roman Catholic and Greek Churches:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Upon reading the Petition of certain of the Clergy of the Church of England, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to procure for our Protestant Officers and Soldiers Exemption from all forced Participation in or Attendance upon the Idolatrous Ceremonies of the Greek and Roman Churches, or the Idol-worship of any other Countries:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Southwold Harbour Bill.

The Duke of Richmond reported from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for more effectually improving the Harbour of Southwold, in the County of Suffolk," was committed; "That they had considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true; and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and made One Amendment thereto."

Which Amendment was read by the Clerk, as follows; (viz t.)

"Pr. 70. L. 13. Leave out Clause (A.) annexed to the Bill."

And the said Amendment, being read a Second Time, was agreed to by the House.

Rother Levels Drainage Bill, Petition against.

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants, Shipowners, Merchants and Traders of the Town and Port of Rye, in the County of Sussex, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; taking notice of a Bill depending in this House, intituled, "An Act to amend an Act of the Seventh Year of His present Majesty, for more effectually draining and preserving certain Marsh Lands or Low Grounds in the Parishes of Sandhurst, Newenden, Rolvenden, Tenterden, Wittersham, Ebony, Woodchurch, Appledore and Stone, in the County of Kent, and Ticehurst, Salehurst, Bodiam, Ewhurst, Northiam, Beckly, Peasmarsh, Iden and Playden, in the County of Sussex;" and praying their Lordships, "That the same may not pass into a Law; and that the Petitioners may be heard by their Counsel, Solicitor or Agents, against such Part or Parts of the said Bill as may affect their Rights and Interests:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

2d Report from Com ee on Expences of Witnesses on the East Retford Election Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Lords Committees appointed a Select Committee to enquire respecting the Expences of the Witnesses on the Bill, intituled, "An Act to prevent Bribery and Corruption in the Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of East Retford;" and to report from Time to Time as to what it may be proper to do therein; "That the Committee had again met, and had inspected further Accounts of Expences and Claims for Remuneration for Loss of Time of certain other of the Witnesses who were ordered to attend; which Accounts were laid before the Committee by Thomas Sambrooke Heptinstall, the Solicitor for the said Bill; and the Committee are of Opinion, That it is reasonable and proper that the said Witnesses should be allowed the several Sums set opposite to their Names in the annexed Abstract."

"Abstract of Expences of certain Witnesses on the East Retford Election Bill."

No. of Days. Rate. Amount. Coachhire. Total.
£ s. £ s. £ s. £ s.
Jonathan Banks- Subsistence 14 1 0 14 0 5 8 19 8
Stephen Hemsworth - Do. 14 1 0 14 0 5 8 19 8
Richard Pawson - Do. - 14 1 0 14 0 5 8 19 8
William Pawson - Do. - 14 1 0 14 0 5 8 19 8
George Kippax, Esquire Do. - 15 1 10 22 10 5 8 27 18
John Uttley - Do. - 13 1 0 13 0 5 8 18 8
William Wake - Do. - 15 1 0 15 0 5 8 20 8
William Elvidge - Do. - 16 1 0 16 0 5 8 21 8
John Dawber - Do. - 17 1 0 17 0 5 8 22 8
George Hudson - Do. - 17 1 0 17 0 5 8 22 8
James Bailey - Do. - 18 1 0 18 0 5 8 23 8
Richard Hannam - Do. and for Loss of Time. 14 3 3 44 2 7 0 51 2
William Elmsall Carter Do. - 12 3 3 37 16 7 0 44 16
Jonas Warwick - Subsistence 13 1 10 19 10 5 8 24 18
Thomas Baker - Do. - 19 0 15 14 5 5 8 19 13
Thomas Parnham - Do. - 19 1 0 19 0 5 8 24 8
Matthew Wass - Do. - 16 1 0 16 0 5 8 21 8
Robert Whatmough - Do. - 16 1 0 16 0 5 8 21 8
Stephen Lawrence - Do. - 16 1 0 16 0 5 8 21 8
Broxholme Slaney - Do. - 16 1 0 16 0 5 8 21 8
Benjamin Scott - Do. - 16 1 0 16 0 5 8 21 8
George Worsley - Do. - 16 0 15 12 0 5 8 17 8
John Baker - - Do. - 16 1 0 16 0 5 8 21 8
Thomas Slaney - Do. - 16 1 0 16 0 5 8 21 8
John Linegar - - Do. - 16 1 0 16 0 5 8 21 8
John Richardson - Do. - 16 1 0 16 0 5 8 21 8
Thomas Butler - - Do. - 15 0 15 11 5 5 8 16 13
William Cookson - Do. - 16 0 15 12 0 5 8 17 8
John Hoult - - Do. - 16 1 0 16 0 5 8 21 8
Francis Hodgson - Do. - 23 1 0 23 0 5 8 28 8
£ 692 12

Which Report, being read by the Clerk, was agreed to by the House.

Welsh Iron & Mining Co's Estate Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for dissolving a certain Partnership Company known by the Name of "The Welsh Iron and Coal Mining Company," and for enabling the Directors and Trustees thereof to dispose of the Estate and Effects of the Concern, and divide the Surplus, after Payment of Debts and Expences, amongst the Shareholders of the Capital Stock therein; and for other Purposes," was committed; That they had considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true; that the Parties concerned had given their Consents to the Satisfaction of the Committee; and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and made several Amendments thereto."

Which Amendments, being read Twice by the Clerk, were agreed to by the House.

Ordered, That the said Bill, with the Amendments, be ingrossed.

Standon Inclosure Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for inclosing Lands in the Parish of Standon, in the County of Hertford," was committed; "That they had considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true; that the Parties concerned had given their Consents to the Satisfaction of the Committee; and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

Bogs (Ireland) Draining Bill.

Ordered, That the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the draining and allotting the Bogs of Ireland," be read a Second Time on Tuesday next.

East Retford Election Bill, Witnesses to attend.

Ordered, That Daniel Bolton, William Leach, Anthony Hartshorne and John Denman do attend this House forthwith, in order to their being examined as Witnesses upon the Second Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to prevent Bribery and Corruption in the Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of East Retford."

East India, &c. Trade, Petitions for opening &

Upon reading the Petition of The Provost, Magistrates and Council of the Burgh of Anderston, under their Common Seal; praying their Lordships "to refuse the Application of The Honorable East India Company for a Renewal of their Charter, excepting at least under such Provisions as shall reserve entire the Objects therein set forth, and all others involving the Property of the British Empire in Europe and India:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Select Committee appointed to enquire into the present State of the Affairs of The East India Company, and into the Trade between Great Britain, the East Indies and China.

Inhabitants of Anderston:

Upon reading the Petition of the Manufacturers and other Inhabitants of the Burgh of Anderston, in the County of Lanark, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to refuse the Application of The Honorable East India Company for a Renewal of their Commercial Monopoly:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

Dukinfield:

Upon reading the Petition of the Merchants, Manufacturers and other Capitalists residing in the Township of Dukinfield, in the County of Chester, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying, "That their Lordships may see fit to open the wide Field of India and China to the unrestricted Efforts of individual Exertion, the Petitioners being satisfied that such a Measure will not only have the happiest Effect on the Trade and Commerce of the Country, but that it is imperiously demanded, at a Period when, by the increased Industry, the improved Machinery and the cheap Labour of the Continent, many of its Markets seem about to be lost to the Commerce of Great Britain:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

Stalybridge:

Upon reading the Petition of the Cotton Spinners and Manufacturers of the Town of Stalybridge, in the Counties Palatine of Lancaster and Chester, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying, "That their Lordships will refuse to grant any further Charter to The East India Company; and that in due Time the proper Notice be given to them of the Intention of the Legislature not to extend the exclusive Privileges enjoyed by them beyond the Period allowed by their present Charter; that a Free Trade to China and India be afforded, and free Liberty to settle in the latter Country given to every British Subject without Restriction; that no Power be granted to enable any Individual to banish a Settler without a previous Trial and Condemnation in conformity to English Jurisprudence; and that every Facility be given to enhance the Prosperity and Welfare of our Manufacturing and Commercial Interests, in such Manner as their Lordships shall deem most expedient:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the lastmentioned Committee.

Witnesses to attend the Com ee.

Ordered, That Arthur Ryder Esquire, George Carruthers Esquire, John Bruddock Esquire, and Allan Campbell Dunlop Esquire, do attend this House on Monday next, to be sworn, in order to their being examined as Witnesses before the last-mentioned Committee.

Limerick Hospital Bill, & Shannon Navigation Bill, Petition from Limerick against.

Upon reading the Petition of the Proprietors and Landholders of the Liberties of the City of Limerick, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; taking notice of a Bill for the Management and Direction of an Hospital founded by Joseph Barrington and Sons, in the City of Limerick; and also of a Bill for Improvement of the Shannon Navigation from Limerick to Killaloe; and praying their Lordships "to protect them from Bills thus endeavoured to be forced upon them, should the same be introduced into their Lordships House; and that the Bill to impose an Hospital upon them against their Wishes may not be passed in any Shape whatever by their Lordships; and that the Second Bill shall lie over until next Session of Parliament, to enable the Petitioners to procure Information thereupon for their Lordships:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Court of Conscience (Dublin) Petition of L. Ryan respecting.

Upon reading the Petition of Laurance Ryan of 5 Lower Digges Street, in the City of Dublin, Academist; taking notice of a Court for the Recovery of Small Debts under 40s. in Dublin, designated the Court of Conscience, and praying, "That their Lordships will take the Subject Matter of his Complaint into their earliest and most mature Consideration, and cause an Enquiry to be made into the Practice of the said Court, or substitute some other Mode for the Recovery of Small Debts:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Cowfold Roads Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for more effectually repairing the Roads from Hand Cross, through Cowfold, to Corner House, and from thence to the Turnpike Road from Horsham to Steyning, and from Corner House aforesaid to the Maypole in the Town of Henfield, and certain Branches therefrom, all in the County of Sussex," was committed; "That they had considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true; and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

Portman Market Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury made the like Report from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for establishing a Market in the Parish of Saint Mary-le-bone, in the County of Middlesex," was committed.

Heigham Bridge Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury made the like Report from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for building a Bridge over the River Wensum, in the Hamlet of Heigham and the Parish of Saint Clement, in the County of the City of Norwich," was committed.

Ideridgehay Roads Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury made the like Report from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, "An Act for improving and maintaining the Turnpike Roads from the Wirksworth Turnpike Road in the Hamlet of Ideridgehay, to the Town of Duffield, and from the Market Place in Wirksworth to the Turnpike Road leading from Derby to Brassington, and from the said Market Place to the Turnpike Road leading from Wirksworth Moor to Matlock Bath, all in the County of Derby," was committed."

Invernessshire Statute Labour Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury also made the like Report from the Lords Committees, to whom the Bill, intituled, An Act for making and maintaining Roads, Bridges and Ferries, and for converting, regulating, and making effectual the Statute Labour, in the County of Inverness," was committed.

Order for Lords to be summoned, discharged.

It was moved, "That the Order made on Friday the 30th of April last, "That all the Lords be summoned to attend the Service of the House on Tuesday the 25th of May next," be now read."

The same was accordingly read by the Clerk.

Ordered, That the said Order be discharged.

Climbing Boys in sweeping Chimnies, Petition from Newark against Employment of.

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Borough of Newark upon Trent, in the County of Nottingham, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; praying their Lordships "to pass such an Act for prohibiting the Use of Children in climbing Chimnies as their Lordships, in their Wisdom, may deem fit:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Insolvent Debtors, Petition of Magistrates of Montgomeryshire to be relieved from discharging of.

Upon reading the Petition of the Magistrates of the County of Montgomery at their Quarter Sessions assembled; praying their Lordships, "That the Magistrates of Montgomeryshire may be relieved from the Task of discharging Insolvent Debtors at Quarter Sessions, as the Magistrates of English Counties have been and now are:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition do lie on the Table.

Hungerford Market Bill:

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to incorporate certain Persons to be called "The Hungerford Market Company," for the Re-establishment of a Market for the Sale of Fish, Poultry and Meat, and other Articles of general Consumption and Use; and for other Purposes."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Dunham Bridge Bill:

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for building a Bridge over the River Trent, from Dunham, in the County of Nottingham, to the opposite Shore, in the County of Lincoln."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Caithness Roads Bill:

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for making, repairing, widening, and keeping in Repair certain Roads and Bridges in the County of Caithness, and for better regulating and rendering more effectual the Statute Labour in the said County, and Conversion Money in lieu thereof."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall Pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Glasgow Royalty Extension Bill:

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for extending the Civil and Criminal Jurisdiction of the Magistrates and the Town or Burgh and Dean of Guild Courts of Glasgow over the Lands of Blythswood and adjacent Lands; and for amending the Acts relating to the Police of the said City."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Louth Roads Bill:

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for more effectually repairing and improving the Roads from Saltfleet to the Town of Horncastle, and other Roads therein mentioned, all in the County of Lincoln."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

London Assurance Companies Bill:

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to enable the London Assurance Companies and their Successors to purchase Annuities upon or for Lives, and also to lend Money or Stock upon Mortgage, for the Purpose of Investment."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Walsall, &c. Roads Bill:

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for improving and maintaining the Road leading from Walsall to Muckley Corner, near Lichfield, and other Roads, in the County of Stafford."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall Pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Sankey Brook Navigation Bill:

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to consolidate and amend the Acts relating to the Sankey Brook Navigation, in the County of Lancaster, and to make a Navigable Canal from the said Navigation at Fidlers Ferry, to communicate with the River Mersey at Widness Wharf, near Westbank, in the Township of Widness, in the said County."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Messages to H.C. that the Lords have agreed to the 8 preceding Bills.

And Messages were, severally, sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Harvey and Mr. Stratford;

To acquaint them, That the Lords have agreed to the said Bills, without any Amendment.

Sir W. P. Campbell's Estate Bill:

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act to enable Sir William Purves Hume Campbell of Marchmont, Baronet, and the Heirs of Entail of the Lands and Barony of Greenlaw, in the County of Berwick, to grant Feus of Parts of the said Lands and Barony; and for other Purposes therein mentioned."

Then an Amendment was made to the said Bill.

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Message to H.C. with it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by the former Messengers;

To carry down the said Bill, and desire their Concurrence thereto.

Hamerton's Divorce Bill.

The Earl of Shaftesbury (according to Order) reported the Amendments made by the Committee of the Whole House to the Bill, intituled, "An Act to dissolve the Marriage of William Medows Hamerton Esquire with Isabella Frances his now Wife, and to enable him to marry again; and for other Purposes."

Which Amendments, being read Twice by the Clerk, were agreed to by the House.

Ordered, That the said Bill, with the Amendments, be ingrossed.

Kidwelly, &c. Inclosure Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for inclosing Lands within the several Parishes of Kidwelly, Saint Mary in Kidwelly, Saint Ishmael and Pembrey, in the County of Carmarthen."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords Committees aforenamed:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet Tomorrow, at the usual Time and Place; and to adjourn as they please.

Little Addington Inclosure Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for inclosing Lands in the Parish of Little Addington, in the County of Northampton."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords Committees aforenamed:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet on the same Day, at the same Place; and to adjourn as they please.

Waterford Roads Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for more effectually repairing several Roads leading from the Bounds of the County of Cork to the City of Waterford."

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords Committees aforenamed:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet on the same Day, at the same Place; and to adjourn as they please.

Parochial Registers (Scotland) Bill.

The Order of the Day being read for the House to be put into a Committee upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the better Regulation of Parochial Registers in Scotland, and for the general recording of such Registrations in the Office of the Lord Clerk Register in Edinburgh;" and for the Lords to be summoned;

The House was accordingly adjourned during Pleasure, and put into a Committee upon the said Bill.

After some Time, the House was resumed:

And The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Committee, "That they had gone through the Bill, and made several Amendments thereto, which he was ready to report, when the House will please to receive the same."

Ordered, That the said Bill, as amended, be printed.

East Retford Election Bill:

The Order of the Day being read for the further Consideration and Second Reading of the Bill, intituled, "An Act to prevent Bribery and Corruption in the Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of East Retford;" and for the Lords to be summoned; and for permitting Counsel to examine Witnesses in support of the Bill; and for hearing Counsel on the Petition of the Burgesses of the Borough of East Retford, in the County of Nottingham, whose Names are thereunto subscribed, praying their Lordships, "That the said Bill may not pass into a Law;"

Counsel were accordingly called in.

Then Richard Undy was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Price.) "Is your Name Richard Undy?"

"It is."

"Where do you live?"

"I live in Retford."

"Are you a Burgess?"

"No."

"Did you see a Person of the Name of Charlton before the last Election?"

"Yes."

"What is his Christian Name?"

"Robert Charlton."

"Is he a Burgess?"

"Yes."

"What passed between you and Charlton?"

"He called in at our House to ax me how I did, and I did the same with him; there were a few Words about electioneering; I told him I hoped he was come this Time to serve a good Cause, and not to vote against the Roman Catholic Bill."

"What Answer did he make to that?"

"He said he had no Objection to serve Sir Henry Wright Wilson, on Conditions."

"What were those Conditions he stated?"

"I axed him what Conditions, and he said he could make a good Thing of it this Time; and he meant to make a good Thing of it before he offered to serve any body else."

"What else did he say?"

"I axed him what he meant by saying that he could make a good Thing of it; and he said he had it in his Power to get somewhat handsome this Time; that he had never made any thing before, but he meant to make something very handsome this Time. I asked him what he meant by that Thing; to take up a Piece of Chalk, and chalk up what he meant; and he took up the Chalk, and chalked "£28."

"Did he say any thing about the Blue Party?"

"It was the Blue Party that he wanted to serve; he meant to serve Sir Henry Wright Wilson, on Conditions. I asked him what he meant by Twenty-eight Pounds; he said, Twenty-five Pounds for his Vote, and Three Pounds for his Expences; and that he would not serve any body else without they would give him that Money."

"Did he mention whether he had promised his Vote to any one?"

"He said he had promised, or that he sold One."

"Did he say for how much?"

"He said for Twenty-eight Pounds; that is, Twentyfive Pounds, and Three Pounds for Expences."

Cross-examined by Mr. Adam.

"When did you first tell this Story about Mr. Charlton?"

"It was in 1826, on the 7th and 8th, before the Election; the Election took place on the 9th of June."

"My Question is, when you first told this Cock-andBull Story; when was this Story told by you first?"

"You know I was at London Three Years ago."

"Do you mean to say that you told this Story about Sir Henry Wright Wilson bribing Mr. Charlton, or the Proposition by Charlton to be bribed by him?"

"No; he wanted for me to give him a Vote."

"Were you brought up on behalf of Sir Henry Wright Wilson to tell this Story?"

"Yes, I was brought up."

"All the rest of your Evidence is as true as that?"

"Yes; I shall maintain it is."

"On a Petition by Sir Henry Wright Wilson, you were brought up to give Evidence of a Man's offering to be bribed by him?"

"Nobody appeared to bribe him; he offered it himself."

"You were brought up to give that Evidence by Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"No, no."

"Who brought you up?"

"I was brought up to speak the Truth."

"Who brought you up?"

"Mr. Hornby."

"Was not he Sir Henry Wright Wilson's Attorney?"

"He was Agent for Sir Henry Wright Wilson's Attorney."

"You mean to induce their Lordships to believe, that you were brought up by Sir Henry Wright Wilson's Attorney to tell that Story?"

"I have told you what is the Truth."

"Now, I ask you whether the Truth is not, that you tried to bride Charlton?"

"No, I did not try to bribe him; but he wanted for me to give a Vote for that Sum, and he said if I would he would give a Vote for Sir Henry."

"Were not you brought up to give Evidence against him, if he gave Evidence against Sir Henry Wilson?"

"No."

"That you will swear?"

"Yes, that I'll swear."

"Pray who are you?"

"I am a Farmer."

"You are not a Burgess?"

"No."

"What are you by Trade?"

"I was a Watch and Clock Maker then."

"How long have you to ceased to be a Watch and Clock Maker?"

"About Three Years."

"How came you to cease to be a Watch and Clock Maker?"

"My Brother died, and I went to the Place where I was bred and born."

"Where were you a Watch and Clock Maker?"

"In the Square at East Retford."

"You ceased to be so?"

"Yes."

"How long have you known Mr. Hornby intinately?"

"I should think Five Years; Five or Six Years, or Four or Five Years; I knew him when first he came to Retford."

"Had you any thing to do with getting up the Petition?"

"No; I know nothing of the Petition, that I know of."

"How came you to have to do with the Petition?"

"I had nothing to do with it."

"You were a Witness against the Return?"

"Yes."

"How many Consultations had you with Mr. Hornby about it?"

"I had not any, until I was summoned before Mr. Lee of West Town about it."

"Mr. James Lee?"

"Yes."

"The Brother of the Treasurer for the West Riding of Yorkshire?"

"Yes."

"When was it you were summoned to attend Mr. Lee?"

"I cannot tell; it was a good while before I was ordered up to London."

"How long ago?"

"I am sure I cannot tell; it must be surely Four Years; I should think it was after the Election."

"That was upon the Petition; not upon this Bill; that was before the House of Commons; the last Petition?"

"Yes."

"Do you mean to say Mr. Lee took a Part upon it?"

"I was summoned to come up and give my Evidence upon it."

"Were you examined since that by Mr. Lee; was it respecting that Petition or this Bill?"

"Mr. Hornby sent for me to go up to Mr. Lee's with him, to give my Evidence."

"Were you sent for on the Petition against Mr. Wright son's Return, or on this Bill?"

"I went up against Sir Henry Wright Wilson and the other Members."

"Do you mean that you went up against Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"No; against the other Members that were chosen, Dundas and Wrightson."

"Were you examined by Mr. Lee with respect to that?"

"Yes; and I gave the same Evidence as I have done now, to the best of my Knowledge."

"After that they sent for you to go up to the House of Commons?"

"Yes."

"For whom did Charlton vote?"

"He voted for Dundas and Wrightson."

"Were not you sent for about disfranchising the Borough by Mr. Lee?"

"No."

"Will you swear that; take care what you are about; will you swear you were not sent for to Mr. Lee about this?"

"I was sent for; but I had nothing to do with Mr. Lee, except when Mr. Hornby was with me."

"What passed between you, Mr. Lee and Mr. Hornby?"

"The Evidence I have given now; nothing more."

"When did you first mention it to Mr. Hornby?"

"I sent for Mr. Hornby; I sent for Mr. Cottam first, to see whether they would give him this Sum; they said that he wished me to send for him, and then I sent for Mr. Hornby; he told me that they durst not give a Farthing, or they should break the Borough; and they would not give him any thing; and so he went and voted for the other Party."

"So you say?"

"Yes."

"Did you tell this before you knew he had voted for the other Party?"

"I sent for Mr. Hornby and Mr. Cottam, to know whether they would give him the Money; he said he would not vote for them without. I did not understand it; I had no Concern with it."

"This was before the Election?"

"Two Days before the Election."

"You mean to tell their Lordships you did not know there was any Harm in sending Two Days before the Election to the Agent for the Candidates, to give Twenty-five Pounds for a Vote?"

"I did not send to them to give it."

"Do you mean to swear, in the Presence of their Lordships, that you did not know there was any Harm in sending for Mr. Hornby, Sir Henry Wright Wilson's Agent, to give Twenty-five Pounds for a Vote?"

"No; I did not know there was any Harm in that."

"All the rest is as true as that?"

"Yes, to the best of my Knowledge."

"What had you to do with the Riots?"

"Nothing at all."

"Will you swear that?"

"Yes."

"Will you swear you did not interfere?"

"I never interfered at all; I was not out of my House at all during the Riots."

"Will you swear you had not any thing to do with them?"

"I will."

"Take care, for every Word you say is taken down, and you may be indicted for Perjury; will you swear you had nothing to do with the Riots?"

"Yes, I will swear I had nothing to do with the Riots; I was never out of my own House while they were going on."

"Are you a Member of the Birmingham Club?"

"No; I had nothing to do with that."

"Are you a Member of no Club?"

"No; I was, of what they call the Blue Club."

"Who are the Members of the Blue Club?"

"I am sure I cannot justly say; the best Part of the Town."

"Is Mr. Newton one of them?"

"I do not know; I have seen him there; I think I have seen him there."

"Are you not sure that you have seen him there?"

"No, I am not sure."

"Will you swear you have not?"

"I am sure I cannot justly say; but I think I have seen him there."

"Do you know Mr. Sharp; have not you seen him there?"

"Yes, I have."

"How many Times have you been there yourself?"

"I am sure I cannot tell; several different Times; they only meet once a Week."

"How many Weeks have they met?"

"I am sure I cannot tell; I did not enter 'till of late."

"When did you enter?"

"I am sure I cannot say."

"Try to tell me?"

"I do not know."

"Will you swear you do not know?"

"Yes, I will."

"Was it this Year or last Year?"

"It is not a many Years since; Four Years, I should think."

"Then you recollect that?"

"Yes."

"Was it in the Winter or the Summer?"

"It was in the Winter."

"In the Winter, Four Years ago?"

"No; last Winter Three Years."

"It met once a Week?"

"They met once a Week."

"What do they do when they meet there?"

"I used to go and get a Glass, and go about my Business; I have heard some Letters read."

"What were the Letters about?"

"They wanted a Member; it was about a Member."

"If it was Three Years, it must have been since the last Election?"

"It was before the last Election."

"Not Three Years ago last November?"

"I am not positive."

"Will you swear it was not after the Election that you were elected a Member of the Club?"

"No; I think it was before the Election; it was before Sir Henry Wright Wilson came forward."

"What have you been doing since?"

"I have done nothing since."

"What has the Club been doing since?"

"I cannot say."

"Have you not met to disfranchise the Borough?"

"No; I have never had no Concern with nobody about that; I never have been concerned with no Club but the Blue Club."

"Did not the Blue Club meet to disfranchise the Borough?"

"No. There have been on Meetings since Sir Henry Wright Wilson came, to my Knowledge; they just had a few Meetings after he came, but none since. I have heard of a Club at the Turk's Head, but I have had no Concern with it."

"Who are the Members of it?"

"I do not know; I left the Corporation and went into West Town, and had no Concern about that; there are Two Retfords; and I have had no Concern with any Freemen or Elections since I left that."

"You mean to swear that?"

"Yes; I have sworn it."

"You mean to continue to swear it?"

"I mean to say nought but what is right, to the best of my Knowledge."

Re-examined by Mr. Price.

"What was the Reason of the founding this Blue Club?"

"I never heard no more about it than that there was some poor Freemen who had nought to drink, and we gave Five Shillings to have something to drink."

"Was it founded on a Political Principle?"

"We had a Song or so, and were pleasant together."

"Was it a Political Club?"

"I cannot say, indeed."

"Does the Blue Club exist at present?"

"No; it was broken up after Sir Henry Wright Wilson came."

"You did not offer Charlton any Money?"

"No; he wanted me to give him Money or a Note."

"All you did was to make a Communication to Mr. Hornby respecting Charlton?"

"Yes."

"The Witness was directed to withdraw.

The Robert Hudson was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Law.) "Is your Name Robert Hudson?"

"Yes."

"Are you a Freeman of Retford?"

"Yes."

"When were you admitted?"

"In 1826."

"Did you vote for Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"Yes."

"Were you present at a Meeting at the Swan in Skinner Street, in September 1825?"

"Yes."

"Did you see any of the Retford Freemen there?"

"Yes."

"Were they the London Voters?"

"Yes."

"Were you at the Time engaged in canvassing for a Mr. Maddox?"

"Yes, I was."

"Was that Gentleman a Candidate at that Time for the Representation of Retford?"

"He was offering himself."

"Whom did you see there of the London Voters; do you know Taylor?"

"Yes."

"Do you know Denman?"

"Yes."

"Cocking?"

"Yes."

"Golland?"

"Yes."

"Isaac Goodlad?"

"Yes."

"Alderman Parker?"

"Yes."

"Were those Freemen, all of them?"

"Yes, I believe they were."

"Did you state any thing to the Freemen then assembled?"

"I told them that Mr. Maddox, a Gentleman who had written to me the Evening before, mentioned that he wished to see the Freemen, and wished to see them at the Swan on the following Evening, which would be the Tuesday; that was the Monday Evening I stated that."

"Did you state any thing in their Presence respecting what Mr. Maddox would do if he came forward?"

"No, I did not."

"Did Alderman Parker say any thing?"

"He informed the Freemen that Mr. Maddox was a Man of no Property; by no means to have any thing to do with him. He had a Gentleman to come forward in Mr. Walker's Place; a Gentleman-a Mr. Walker had offered himself on a former Occasion as a Candidate -that he had a Gentleman to bring forward; and they had done well on former Elections, and no doubt they would do well on this, if they supported him."

"If they supported whom?"

"Mr. Parker's Friend."

"Were you at the same Public House on the 13th?"

"Yes, I was."

"That was the following Day?"

"Yes; the following Evening."

"Did you find the same Freemen there?"

"I cannot say whether all of them were there."

"Do you recollect who was there?"

"I recollect seeing Mr. Edward Golland, Isaac Goodlad, George Cocking, and Daniel Boulton."

"Did you know those Persons to be Freemen of Retford?"

"Yes."

"Did you produce any Letter to them?"

"Yes."

"Did you read it?"

"Yes."

"Did Isaac Goodlad make any Observation upon your reading that Letter?"

"Yes, I believe he did."

"What did he say?"

"He said he would not be Marshed, neither by me nor by any one else."

"Did he state what had happened to him before, or not?"

"He did not."

"Do you know Denman?"

"Yes."

"And Boulton?"

"Yes."

"Did they say any thing with regard to Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"Yes, I believe they did."

"What did they state?"

"They stated that they would have a Hundred Pounds for their Vote."

"Was this on the same Occasion, or a different one?"

"A different one."

"How long after?"

"I should think Two or Three Months after."

"Was it at the same Place?"

"No; it was at their own House; I went to invite them to Sir Henry's Canvass Dinner."

"Were they together?"

"Yes, they were."

"When they were together, what did they say upon the Subject of the Support of Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"They said as it was a contested Election they would not vote for any less."

"For any less that what?"

"Than £100 each."

"Did they make any further Observation?"

"No; only that they would come to the Dinner."

"Was any thing said about the Value of the Vote by them?"

"I think, to the best of my Recollection, they said it was worth that at that Election."

"Do you know Stephen Hurst of Staveley?"

"I know one Stephen Hurst."

"Is he a Freeman of Retford?"

"Yes, I believe he is; I saw him at Nottingham."

"Did he make any Proposal as to his Support of Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"He told me he would give him his Support."

"On what Condition?"

"If I would let him have a Part of his Election

"Money."

"Is the Alderman Parker you have been speaking of, Alderman John Parker, the Burgess of Retford?"

"Yes, he is."

Cross-examined by Mr. Stephenson.

"Did you vote at the last Election?"

"Yes."

"For whom?"

"For Sir Henry Wright Wilson."

"Did you get any thing?"

"No."

"Do you know whether Taylor got any thing?"

"I do not know that he did."

"Mr. Boulton?"

"No."

"Mr. Goodlad?"

"No."

"Mr. Cocking?"

"No."

"Mr. Denman."

"No."

"You do not know whether either of them got any thing."

"No."

"Do you know whether Hurst got any thing?"

"I gave him One Shilling; I told him I had no Power to give any thing."

"As far as you know, nothing was given to any of the Voters?"

"No, not in the Way of Votes; I have lent several of them Money, but out of my own Pocket."

"That was out of your own Pocket?"

"Yes."

"How came you to vote for Sir Henry Wright Wilson?"

"Because he was for the Protestant Cause."

"That you thought of more Value than the Hundred Pounds?"

"I did not think any thing of that."

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

The George Bailey was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Price.) "What is your Name?"

"George Bailey."

"Are you a Burgess of Retford?"

"Yes."

"How long have you been a Burgess of Retford?"

"About Fourteen Years."

"Do you remember the Election of 1818, when Mr. Crompton and Mr. Evans were Candidates, for the first Time?"

"I cannot speak to the Year, but I recollect Mr. Evans and Mr. Crompton coming forward."

"Do you remember the first Election when Mr. Evans and Mr. Crompton were Candidates?"

"I remember their coming; as to the Year of our Lord, I cannot speak to that."

"Did you promise those Gentlemen your Votes?"

"Yes."

"After that Election, did you receive any thing?"

"Yes."

"What was it?'

"I received Two Letters."

"What did those Letters contain?"

"There was One-and-twenty Pounds each, I believe."

"Do you remember the second Election of Mr. Crompton and Mr. Evans?"

"Yes."

"Did you promise your Vote to those Gentlemen again?"

"Yes."

"Did you receive any thing after that Election?"

"I received a Sum afterwards."

"Do you know a Person of the Name of Westby Leadbeater, the Town Crier?"

"Yes; I did know him."

"Did you receive those Packets, or either of them, from him?"

"I cannot justly say who it was; I do not know."

"For whom did you vote at the last Election?"

"Sir Robert Dundas and Mr. Wrightson."

"Who canvassed you upon that Occasion, before the Election?"

"I got Two Letters."

"After the Election?"

"Before; Two canvassing Letters. I never saw them while the Election."

"Did any Person canvass you?"

"I was never canvassed by any one."

(By a Lord.) "Have you got those Letters?"

"No, I have not."

Cross-examined by Mr. Adam.

"You were never canvassed by the Candidates; of course you never received any Promise?"

"I never received any Promise; nor saw them, 'till the Election Day."

"You never received any Money from them after 1826; after the last Election of Dundas and Wrightson?"

"No, I never received any Money."

"Was the Election of 1818 the first you remember?"

"I cannot justly speak to the Year of our Lord."

"Was Crompton and Evans the first?"

"Yes."

"Are you a Freeman of any other Place besides Retford?"

"No."

"Do you live in the Town?"

"I did, at the Time of the Election."

"Did you at the Time of those Packets?"

"No."

"Where did you live then?"

"At Milton, I believe."

"How far is that from Retford?"

"Five Miles."

"What did you know about the Packets? When did you first see them? Did you ever see them?"

"Yes, I saw them, of course."

"Where did you see them?"

"They were given to me."

"Do you know by whom?"

"I do not."

"They were both given to you, were they, upon both Occasions?"

"No; One Packet was given to my Mother."

"Did your Mother give it you?"

"Yes, she gave it to me."

"Unopened?"

"Yes, unopened."

(By a Lord.) "Are you a Petitioner against the Bill to disfranchise the Borough? Is that your Handwriting?" (The Petition against the Bill being shewn to the Witness.)

"I have not signed any Petition."

"Did you authorize any one to sign it for you?"

"Not that I know of."

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

Then Tom Booth was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Law.) "Is your Name Tom Booth?"

"Yes."

"Are you a Burgess of Retford?"

"Yes."

"Do you live at East Markham?"

"No."

"Where do you live?"

"At the Red Lion Inn, the Halfway House between Lincoln and Newark."

"When were you admitted a Burgess?"

"About Sixteen Years since."

"Was the first Election after you were admitted the Election in 1818?"

"I do not recollect the Year."

"Mr. Evans and Mr. Crompton's Election?"

"I remember the Election."

"Was that the first?"

"Yes."

"To whom did you promise your Vote upon that Occasion?"

"I cannot say."

"Did you promise those Gentlemen?"

"Yes, I believe I did."

"Did you receive any Money after that Election?"

"Yes, I believe I did."

"What do you believe you received?"

"I believe I received Twenty Guineas in a Parcel."

"Two Parcels, or One?"

"Two."

"Twenty Guineas in each?"

"Yes."

"Do you recollect who brought them?"

"No."

"Did you know Westby Leadbeater, the Town Crier?"

"Yes."

"Did he give you either of them?"

"No."

"Whom did you promise your Vote to in the Election of 1820, when Mr. Evans and Mr. Crompton again stood?"

"I believe I promised those Gentlemen."

"Did you receive any thing after that Election?"

"Yes."

"Whom did you promise your Vote to, after that Election?"

"The same as before."

"How long after you had received the Money after the Election of 1818 did you promise your Vote for the Election of 1820?"

"I do not know."

"Do you believe there were many Months between?"

"I am sure I cannot say."

"I believe you did not vote at the last Election?"

"No, I did not."

"Then at the other Elections at which you promised your Vote you received Forty Guineas?"

"Yes; after the Election?"

"How long after the Election?"

"I cannot say; about Nine or Ten Months, perhaps; somewhere thereabouts; I cannot tell."

Cross-examined by Mr. Alderson.

"Am I to understand that you never were but at Two Elections?"

"I was there at Three."

"How came you not to vote at the Third?"

"I went up to vote, but it was not a regular Poll- they did not call them over as they usually had done before; the Freemen were up so that I could not get up to vote."

"Whom did you go up to vote for?"

"For Sir Henry Wright Wilson."

"Wrightson's People were so violent that they would not let you go up?"

"I do not know that, whose People they were."

"Was there a great deal of rioting at that Election?"

"I am sure I do not know; I did not see any."

"You were stopped without any Riot?"

"Yes."

"What stopped you then; the numerous Electors?"

"Yes; they crowded up so that I could not get up without getting over their Heads; and I thought I would withdraw, and go again."

"What Day was it that there was such a Crowd?"

"The first Day."

"Were you there the second Day at all?"

"Yes; in the Morning."

"Did not you see the Bailiff sit there without any offering to poll?"

"I do not remember that."

"Will you swear that the second Day there was any, the slightest Difficulty in polling?"

"I believe the Bailiff was there."

"Was there the slightest Difficulty on the second Day of polling?"

"No. I do not understand you."

"What did you mean by telling their Lordships you could not poll on account of the Crowd?"

"The first Day I could not get to the Poll."

"The Reason you gave why you did not poll was, that there was such a Crowd?"

"Yes; the first Day."

"Why did not you try the second?"

"I did go up the second, but there was no Poll,"

"Was the Returning Officer there ready to receive the Votes?"

"I do not know."

"Was he not sitting there?"

"Yes, he was."

"Do you mean to say you did not poll for any other Reason than because you did not choose to poll?"

"I do not know. I do not understand you."

"Were not you desired by Sir Henry Wright Wilson or his Agent not to poll?"

"I was not desired by Sir Henry Wright Wilson or his Agent not to poll."

"Why did not you poll then?"

"Because I was not asked the second Day. I went into the Hall, but there was no Poll; I did not understand it, and I did not go to offer my Vote then."

"Was not that because there were so few of you you could not come up to the Head of the Poll?"

"Oh, I do not know that."

"Was it not because you had given up?"

"I do not know, I am sure."

"Will you swear that you do not know?"

"I do not know."

"Will you swear that you do not know that the Reason of your not voting the second Day was that you found it of no Use?"

"Indeed I do not know the Reason."

"You did not, however?"

"No."

"You mean to tell their Lordships you had no Idea what was the Reason of your not voting the second Day?"

"I do not know the Reason; I went up expecting to vote."

"Had not you promised to vote for Dundas and Wrightson, and broken your Promise?"

"Yes, I had."

"Was not that the Reason why you did not poll?"

"No."

"Had you not some little Remains of Shame?"

"No; that was not the Reason."

"You had no Reason at all?"

"No."

"How came you to break your Promise?"

"Because I thought they were not the right Principles."

"Have you never expressed your Regret at having broken your Promise since; have not you said you were sorry for it?"

"No."

"To nobody?"

"No, not that I know of; I do not recollect that I did."

"Will you swear you did not?"

"I do not recollect that I did."

"You are beginning to recollect."

"No, I am not."

"Will you swear that you did not?"

"I will swear that I do not recollect that I did."

"Could you have done it, and not recollect it?"

"I cannot recollect all I say."

"Do you know a Person of the Name of Rose?"

"Yes."

"Will you swear you have not said so to him?"

"Yes, I will swear that."

"You say you changed on account of Principle?"

"Yes."

"What were the Principles that induced you to do that?"

"I understood they would be for the Roman Catholics."

"And you were sure Sir Henry would not?"

"He said he would not."

"You say that was your only Reason?"

"Yes."

"Had Sir Henry promised you any thing?"

"No; nor nobody else."

"And you have received nothing?"

"No."

"Nor did Wrightson and Dundas promise you any thing?"

"No; nor nobody else never did."

"Not on the former Occasions?"

"No."

"Not when you received the Packets?"

"No."

"Did not they say any thing to you about it?"

"No."

"You do not remember Osbaldeston's Election?"

"No."

"How old are you?"

"I am about Thirty-eight."

"Were you at Retford the whole of the Election; the first, second and third Days?"

"Yes."

"Were you about the Town during the Time?"

"Yes."

"You mean to say it was all perfectly quiet?"

"Indeed I do not know."

"Will you swear that the Soldiers were not sent for?"

"They were sent for; but I came out of the Town when they were sent for."

"You were there before they were sent for?"

"Yes."

"How came they to be sent for if every thing was perfectly quiet?"

"I am sure I do not recollect why they were sent for."

"Are not you aware that they were sent for because your Friend Sir Henry's People were rather tumultuous?"

"I do not recollect."

"Will you swear there were not most notorious Riots?"

"I did not see them."

"Did you not hear it?"

"No; they said there was."

"Did not you see Stones thrown?"

"No; I left the Town before the Soldiers came in."

"Were not you very much surprised at hearing they were sending for Soldiers?"

"Yes."

"You thought there was no Reason for them?"

"I do not know."

"Will you swear you did not see a great deal of rioting before you went out?"

"No."

"Nor any?"

"No."

"It was quite quiet?"

"When I went out."

"While you saw it is was quite quiet?"

"I saw no Riot when I went out."

"The Witness was directed to withdraw."

"Then Joseph Banks was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:"

(Mr. Price.) "Are you a Burgess of Retford?"

"I believe so."

"How many Years have you been a Burgess of Retford?"

"Sixteen Years."

"Do you remember the first Election when Mr. Evans and Mr. Crompton were Candidates?"

"I do remember it."

"Did you promise your Vote to those Gentlemen?"

"To neither, I did."

"Did you never promise your Vote to either of those Gentlemen before the Election?"

"Never before the Election."

"After the Election, did you receive any Money?"

"I never received any."

"Did you receive any Packets?"

"I never did."

"Did any Person receive any Packets for you?"

"I cannot speak to that exactly."

"Did you ever receive any Packet from any Person after that Election?"

"I never did."

"Did you after the Election of 1818 receive from any Person any Packet or any Sum of Money?"

"Not that I know of, particularly from any Gentlemen for the Electioneering Account."

"Did you ever receive any Packet or any Sum of Money from any Person after the Election of 1818?"

"I never received any Packet or any Sum of Money from any Person on the Electioneering Account that I know of."

(By a Lord.) "You are not asked whether you received it on the Electioneering Account, but whether you received any Packet after the Election?"

"I never received any Packet."

"Or any Money?"

"Not on Electioneering Accounts."

"Was there any left at your House?"

"I dare say there may have been at my Father's, but I have been absent Fourteen Years, and might not receive it."

(Mr. Price.) "Do you mean to say you did not receive Money from your Father, or your Father's Family?"

"I have received Money from my Father many Times."

"Was that after the Election of 1818?"

"Yes, and before the Election too."

"How much did you receive from your Father after that Election?"

"I cannot say exactly."

"About how much?"

"Perhaps Thirty Pounds, or thereabouts."

"Did you ever receive so large a Sum from your Father before?"

"He once gave me Twenty-five Pounds."

"What is your Father?"

"My Father was a Smith by Trade."

"Does he keep any Journeymen?"

"He did do at that Time."

"Was your Father a Burgess?"

"He was."

"Did he state to you, at any Time after any Election, the Cause of any Money being paid to you?"

"Not at all."

"Then how long was it after the Election of 1818 that you received any Money from your Father?"

"Well, I cannot say to the Time."

"About how long?"

"It was clear away Five Years after the first Election; I never returned for Five Years."

"About how long after the Election of 1818 did you receive Money from your Father?"

"About Five Years."

"Five Years after the Election?"

"Yes."

"When was that Thirty Pounds paid?"

"Well, I cannot recollect, it is so long since, and I did not take any particular Notice; I really cannot recollect."

"Do you recollect the Election of 1820, the second Election of Mr. Evans and Mr. Crompton?"

"I do recollect it."

"Did you promise your Vote upon that Occasion?"

"I never promised my Vote; I was away."

"You are upon your Oath; and recollect yourself."

"Before the Election of 1820, did you, or not, promise your Vote?"

"I never promised my Vote."

"Did any Person promise it for you, with your Knowledge?"

"I believe my Father did; I left him to act for me."

"As your Father acted for you, did you receive any Money from him after the Election of 1820?"

"I did receive Money from him after 1820, but some Time after."

"How much after?"

"I cannot say to the Year."

"About how long after?"

"Perhaps Four or Five Years."

"How much Money?"

"I cannot say to a Truth how much it was."

"How long was it after the Election of 1820 that you received Money from your Father?"

"I cannot rightly say."

"Was it One Year or Two?"

"Perhaps it might be Three, but I cannot speak to a Year or Two Years."

"What Authority did you give your Father to act for you?"

"I left Home, and when I left Home I told him that he might do as he pleased for me, supposing Elections came."

"Refresh your Memory. After the Election of 1820, how long was it, that you received Money from your Father?"

"I cannot say to a Year."

"Did you receive any Money from him after that?"

"I did receive Money from my Father."

"How much at a Time?"

"I have received as far as Twenty Pounds at a Time; Thirty Pounds at certain Times."

"Did you know from your Father, who was a Burgess, that a Packet had been left for you?"

"I did not know, but I might expect it would; but I really did not know."

"Did he ever tell you there was a Packet left for you?"

"No, he never told me."

"Why might you expect that a Packet might be left?"

"I have heard of such like Things being left at People's Houses, and I might expect it for me."

"Did you expect it?"

"Well, I have heard of such like Things."

"Did you expect it?"

"Well, I did not, for I did not promise the Gentlemen."

"Did you expect it at all?"

"I did expect."

"Cross-examined by Mr. Adam."

"What are you yourself?"

"I am now a Hop Grower, at this present Time."

"Where do you grow Hops?"

"At Retford."

"Is that the Business you carry on?"

"At this present Time."

"Do you mean that you have Land where you raise Hops?"

"Yes."

"How much Ground have you?"

"About an Acre and a Half of Hops."

"Of whom do you rent it?"

"The Gentleman's Name is Master Youll, the Parson."

"Is he a Freeman?"

"No."

"Your Father at that Time kept Journeymen?"

"Yes, he did."

"Was he in a large Line of Business for Retford?"

"Yes, very decent."

"Had he a Shop?"

"Yes."

"Had he a Shop to sell Goods in, or was he a Working Smith only?"

"He was a Working Smith."

"Had he any Apprentice?"

"He had a vast Quantity of Apprentices."

"What do you call a vast Quantity of Apprentices?"

"Perhaps Nine or Ten."

"How many Journeymen?"

"I cannot say, indeed."

"Had he as many as he had Apprentices?"

"He might have as many, or he might have more."

"How long did he continue in that Style of Business, having so many Journeymen and Apprentices?"

"Perhaps Fifty Years."

"Is he dead?"

"He is."

"When did he die?"

"I think last April was a Twelvemonth."

"From Time to Time, he used to send you Money?"

"Yes."

"Both before Election and after Election?"

"Yes."

"Did he send you more than Thirty Pounds at a Time?"

"No; I think that was the highest Sum he ever gave me at one Time."

"I think you say, that the Time he gave you Money after the Election of 1820, you first of all said, was Four or Five Years after that Time?"

"I cannot recollect."

"Recollect whether it was not that Time after both Elections before your Father gave you the Money?"

"Not after both the Elections before he gave me any Money; he gave me some before the Election."

"When you said your Father might do as he pleased about your Vote, was that in 1818 or 1820?"

"I cannot recollect exactly."

"Which Election was it?"

"I am sure I cannot recollect; I do not keep any such Account in my Head."

"Were you a young Man at that Time?"

"Yes."

"What was your Business then?"

"I travelled up and down the Country."

"For any House; or what?"

"As what is called a Licensed Hawker."

"Had you a Horse and Cart, or a Pack?"

"What they call a Foot Licence."

"Were you ever at Home at that Time?"

"No."

"Did you care at that Time who was to be the Member for your Town; you being a Hawker going about, had you any Wish for one Man more than another?"

"Not at all; I never wished for any one."

"You left that to other Persons?"

"Yes."

"How long did you continue this Business as a Hawker?"

"Thirteen Years as a Licensed Hawker."

"When did you leave it off?"

"I think it will be Three Years come this next August."

"It was while you were a Hawker your Father gave you this Money?"

"Yes."

"Was it to furnish your Pack?"

"He gave me a Guinea to furnish my Pack when I left Home."

"Did he give you any Help afterwards?"

"Yes."

"Did he do that more than once?"

"Several different Times."

"Did he do that whether there was an Election or not an Election?"

"Yes."

"That made no Difference?"

"Not at all, as I know of."

"Re-examined by Mr. Price."

"What was your Father's Name?"

"My Father's Name was John Banks."

"Have you a Brother a Burgess of Retford?"

"I have."

"What is his Name?"

"I have one John and another Jonathan."

"Are they both Burgesses?"

"Both Burgesses."

"Did you ever receive any Money from your Brothers John and Jonathan, as well as from your Father?"

"Never, from neither of my Brothers."

"Can you remember how much you received from your Father between 1818 and 1820?"

"I cannot indeed, for I did not set down the Sum, and I cannot keep it in my Head, nothing of that kind."

"How many Times have you received about Thirty Pounds from your Father?"

"I do not think I have received but once such a Sum as Thirty Pounds."

"When was that?"

"I am sure I cannot recollect."

"Was it before or after the Election of 1820?"

"I did receive both before the Election and after."

"When you received this Thirty Pounds, was it before or after the Election of 1820?"

"I am sure I cannot say, to speak the Truth."

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

Then The Reverend William Moule was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Price.) "Are you a Clergyman of the Established Church?"

"Yes."

"Do you know a Gentleman of the Name of The Reverend John Fell, residing at Huntingdon?"

"Very well."

"How many Years have you known him?"

"Twenty, I should think."

"Was he a Pupil of yours?"

"He was."

"Is he a Burgess of Retford?"

"He is."

"Do you know the Character of his Handwriting?"

"Perfectly well."

"Did you teach him to write?"

"Not to write."

"Have you seen him write?"

"Very frequently."

"Have you corresponded with him?"

"I have."

"Do you know that to be his Handwriting?" (A Paper being shewn to the Witness.)

"I do."

"Mr. Price tendered this in Evidence as an Admission of a Freeman."

"Mr. Adam objected to the Production of this in Evidence."

"Mr. Law submitted, that it was Evidence; but undertook to call Mr. Fell as a Witness."

"The Counsel were informed, "That it appeared not to be Evidence unless the Witness was called, not being to be considered as the Declaration of a Freeman previous to the Enquiry having commenced."

"Cross-examined by Mr. Alderson."

"Were you the Master of the Grammar School at Retford?"

"I was."

"How long were you Master of the Grammar School at Retford?"

"Twenty-seven Years."

"How many Scholars had you when you left off?"

"I have not left off."

"How many have you now then?"

"Four or Five."

"Are they your own Children?"

"No."

"Whose Children are they?"

"Different Persons."

"Have you had any Disputes with the Corporation of Retford?"

"Not any."

"Not about the School?"

"The Commissioners for the Education."

"Had you any Disputes with the Corporation?"

"I do not know. I heard that the Commissioners of Education were coming to Retford. The Corporation did not approve of it much; they did not wish to have the Estates of the School examined into."

"Is that any Answer to my Question, whether you had any Disputes with the Corporation?"

"In what Shape do you mean."

"Had you any Disputes with the Corporation; that is a plain Question?"

"No more than that they have taken Offence in consequence of the Commissioners coming."

"Had you any Disputes with the Corporation?"

"They behaved exceedingly ill to me."

"I still repeat my Question; had you any Disputes with the Corporation?"

"With respect to the Usher, I had something, some Time ago."

"With respect to your Management of the School, and its being destroyed by your bad Management?"

"No; nothing of the sort."

"They have not attempted to turn you out?"

"No."

"In no way?"

"No."

"Nor any Attempt made?"

"No, nor any Attempt made."

"Are you a Voter yourself?"

"No."

"How long have you known this Reverend Gentleman Mr. Fell?"

"Upwards of Twenty Years."

"The Witness was directed to withdraw."

Then Richard Ramsay was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

(Mr. Law.) "Are you a Clerk in Mr. Foljambe's Bank at Retford?"

"No."

"Were you so in the Year 1818?"

"I was."

"Do you know Mr. Jonathan Fox?"

"Yes."

"Was he also a Clerk in that Banking House?"

"He was."

"How long did you continue in that Banking House after 1818?"

"I left at the latter End of 1820."

"Did you at any Time after the Election of 1818 see Mr. Fox in the Possession of a considerable Sum of Money?"

"Yes."

"Were you present when he enclosed any of it in any Papers?"

"I was."

"Did you observe what Sums he put into each Paper; whether at the Time of doing it he stated what Sums he was putting into each Paper?"

"Twenty Guineas."

"Did he state that it was Twenty Guineas, or did you happen to see him put Twenty Guineas in?"

"It is so long a Time I cannot say which; but I know there were Twenty Guineas in some, and Forty in another or Two."

"Did you see whether he put any Directions on the Packets?"

"They were directed to different Freemen; but I cannot say I saw him write the Directions."

"At the Time Fox was putting up the Money, did he state what was to be done with it?"

"Not particularly, he did not."

"Did you know a Person of the Name of Westby Leadbeater?"

"I did."

"Was he Town Crier?"

"He was."

"Did you see any of those Packets delivered to him?"

"I did."

"How many at a Time?"

"Eight to Ten at a Time."

"Did Westby Leadbeater return from Time to Time to receive more?"

"He did."

"Who delivered them upon his Return; did Fox?"

"He did."

"Did you hear any Directions given by Fox to Westby Leadbeater, the Town Crier?"

"Yes; he requested him to deliver those; and he gave him a Piece of Paper with the Names of the Persons who were to receive them."

"He delivered him a Piece of Paper?"

"Yes."

"There was Writing upon it?"

"Yes."

"What did he say at the Time he so delivered that Piece of Paper?"

"To deliver those Packets according to the Names upon this List."

"Did he give him any Direction with regard to the Paper; any thing to be done by the Person to whom he so delivered the Packets?"

"I can hardly state this distinctly, whether the Parties receiving those Packets did not put their Names; but I cannot swear to it."

"Did you see whether Leadbeater produced a Paper when he came for more Packets?"

"I did not see him do it once."

"Did you afterwards see any Paper in the Possession of Fox?"

"I cannot say that I did, for I had nothing to do with the Election."

"How many Packets in all do you believe were delivered by Fox to Leadbeater?"

"I cannot state, I am sure."

"What Number, to the best of your Knowledge, were delivered, as nearly as you can speak to it?"

"I cannot speak distinctly, but I should think from Seventy to Eighty."

"Do you think you saw to that Amount delivered?"

"Yes; but not all to Westby Leadbeater."

"To whom else were they delivered?"

"A few were delivered to a Person of the Name of William Cottam, to take to the Out-voters."

"Was that stated by Fox?"

"I cannot state that positively.

"From what Circumstance, of your own Knowledge, can you state they were delivered to Cottam to be delivered to the Out-voters?"

"Because it was done in the Bank; and it could not be done without my seeing it."

"Did you hear any Direction given to Cottam, what he was to do with the Packets?"

"He was to go to the different Villages."

"How do you know he was to go to the Outvoters?"

"Those in the Villages."

"How do you know that he was to go to the different Villages with them?"

"I heard the Direction given to him, and I heard him say so."

"Was the Direction given by the Party who delivered the Packets to Cottam, whoever it was?"

"It could not be any one else, because there was no other Person present but myself and Mr. Fox and Mr. Cottam in the Bank."

"It was not given by you?"

"No."

"Then was it given by Mr. Fox?"

"It must have been."

"Are you related to Mr. John Dawber, a Burgess?"

"I married his Cousin."

"Did you receive from Mr. Fox any Packet for your Relation, John Dawber, the Burgess?"

"I did."

"What did that contain?"

"Twenty Guineas."

"What did you do with it?"

"I either gave it to Dawber or left it at his Father's House."

"Did you afterwards have any Conversation with Dawber, the Voter for East Retford, so as to ascertain whether he had received it; did he tell you, before this Enquiry, that he had received it?"

"Yes; he told me the Day or the Day after he had got it."

Cross-examined by Mr. Adam.

"When did you see Dawber last?"

"I saw him the Day he went Home, or the Day before he went Home."

"From his Examination here?"

"Yes."

"Had you any Conversation with him before he came here to be a Witness?"

"Oh yes; a Year and a Half or Two Years ago."

"About what he was to say when he was examined?"

"No; I did not know that he was going to be examined."

"Was he examined before the Committee of the House of Commons?"

"I do not know."

"Had you any Conversation with him before he came up to be examined here of late?"

"No."

"He is a Relation of yours?"

"Yes; but he lives at Retford, and I live at Sheffield."

"How long before he came up to be examined had you seen him?"

"I saw him in December last."

"Did you see him in London, while you were up here as a Witness?"

"Yes."

"Was that before his Examination?"

"Yes."

"Where did you see him?"

"I saw him under the Roof of this House; in the Passage."

"Was Mr. Sharp present with you?"

"I do not know; I dare say he was."

"Have you any Doubt that he was there?"

"I cannot recollect indeed."

"Recollect whether Mr. Sharp was not present at the Time?"

"I cannot recollect."

"Try; you can recollect very well for the other Side?"

"I saw him in and out of the Passage several Times."

"Sometimes he stopped as he passed by?"

"Yes."

"Sometimes he talked?"

"No, I do not recollect that he did."

"Are you sure that you and Sharp and Dawber had no Conversation?"

"I do not recollect."

"Did you see Newton on that Occasion?"

"I did not see him."

"Do you know Mr. Hannam?"

"I cannot say; it was the first Night I got here."

"Where are you in Town?"

"I am in private Lodgings."

"Where are those?"

"In Doctors Commons."

"Are any of the Witnesses with you?"

"No."

"Where did you see Mr. Hannam?"

"I saw him in this House."

"Did not you drink Tea with Mr. Hannam down Stairs in the Coffee House?"

"I did not."

"Had you any Conversation with him?"

"Not a Word."

"When did you leave Retford?"

"December the 3d, 1820."

"Had you any Quarrel with Mr. Fox?"

"Never."

"Are you sure of that?"

"I think few Men who lived together Twelve Years could help differing a little; but no serious Quarrel."

"Had you no serious Quarrel about the Time of your leaving Retford?"

"No."

"And you had had none with Mr. Foljambe?"

"No."

"How long did you know Mr. Foljambe?"

"From the Time I went into his Service as a Clerk."

"How long is that?"

"Eleven or Twelve Years."

"Mr. Foljambe is a Man of Property and Family?"

"Yes."

"His Father was Member for the County of York?"

"As I have been told."

"That was before your Time?"

"Yes."

"Why did you leave him?"

"I got a better Situation."

"That was your only Reason?"

"Yes."

"I want to know, when you say there were Twenty Guineas in those Packets, do you mean to say you saw Twenty Guineas put up?"

"I cannot say to seeing them counted and put up."

"Did you see any Parcel counted?"

"Indeed I cannot say that I did."

"Were they Notes, or what sort of Money?"

"They were in Notes, to the best of my Recollection, of the Retford Bank."

"Then when you swear that there were Twenty Guineas in some and Forty in another, you must surely know what the Notes were?"

"They were Retford Notes, the principal Part of them."

"Are you sure of that?"

"Why I do not know what to say to that Question. I could prove it by a Book."

"I am trying your Memory. You cannot tell whether those Notes were Retford Notes or other Notes?"

"I believe they were the principal Part in Retford Notes."

"Why do you believe it, if you do not recollect it?"

"Because I think there would be no other kind of Notes paid out there."

"That was because you were in the Bank of Retford, you believe that; have you the least Recollection whether they were Retford Notes or Bank of England Notes?"

"I believe they were Retford Notes."

"Will you swear you have the slightest Recollection whether they were Retford or Bank of England Notes?"

"I will swear that one of them was a Retford Note."

"That was Dawber's, was it?"

"Yes."

"Can you take upon you to swear that any except his were Retford Notes?"

"I cannot; but it is my Recollection, as far as my Memory serves me, that they were all Retford Notes."

"But your Memory does not serve you to say one Way or the other?"

"No."

"Why then do you say one Way or the other, if your Memory does not serve you?"

"I am sure I cannot say."

"Why do you guess, if your Memory does not serve you; you are upon your Oath?"

"Yes; I cannot distinctly take upon myself to say that they were all Retford Notes, but I will swear to some of them."

"Will you take upon yourself to swear they were all in Retford Notes, having already said that you are not sure that any Parcel, except Dawber's, contained Retford Notes; just as you like; only one Thing or another?"

"You put me into an awkward Situation; to the best of my Belief, I believe the principal Part of them were Retford Notes."

"What is your Reason?"

"Because I believe a great many were made payable in that Town and the Neighbourhood."

"Because you were in the Banking House, you believe they were Retford Notes?"

"Yes."

"How many Packets had Forty Pounds?"

"I cannot swear to many."

"Will you swear there was One?"

"Yes."

"How many more?"

"I cannot say."

"How can you swear there was One?"

"An Out-voter of the Name of Hutchinson got Forty; he gave Mr. Crompton a Plumper."

"You will swear that?"

"Yes."

"How will you swear to that?"

"I saw that Packet given to William Cottam."

"What Day was it you saw that Packet given to William Cottam?"

"I cannot swear to Dates."

"How can you swear it was to Hutchinson then; why will you take upon yourself to swear this Packet was for Hutchinson?"

"I cannot recollect another Person that promised Mr. Crompton a Plumper."

"How do you know that Hutchinson gave Mr. Crompton a Plumper?"

"Because I can recollect it very well."

"Did you see him vote?"

"There was no voting."

"How do you know he gave him a Promise to vote a Plumper?"

"I do not know; but he got Forty Guineas."

"Can you say that Hutchinson gave a Promise to vote at all?"

"I did not hear any Voter promise, but I recollect that he had Forty Guineas, because, being in the Bank with Mr. Fox, I could not but hear Things, and that was One Thing that struck my Memory; he was One that got Forty Guineas."

"Because you were in the Bank at the Time, you could not help hearing Things at the Time, and that was One Thing which struck your Memory; will you undertake to say he gave Mr. Crompton a Plumper?"

"I did not hear that, but I heard Mr. Fox say that Hutchinson was to have Forty Guineas."

"Will you swear you heard Mr. Fox say he was to have Forty Guineas; tell me when and where?"

"Of course it is impossible for me to speak to a Date after the Lapse of Twelve Years."

"On what Occasion was it?"

"It was when William Cottam came into the Bank; he was going on Horseback to take those Packets out, in the Forenoon."

"Were the Packets sealed at that Time?"

"I think they were; I remember seeing them given to William Cottam; but I was doing my own Business."

"Were the Packets open or closed at that Time?"

"If they were not closed at the Time, they would be closed before he took them out; but I cannot swear to that."

"Will you undertake to swear that Mr. Fox told Cottam that any Packets contained Forty Guineas?"

"No; but I recollect he was one of those that would not promise at first to give Mr. Crompton a Plumper."

"Is it because you know that Hutchinson promised a Plumper, that you take upon you to say that Fox said there was Forty Guineas?"

"Yes."

"And no other?"

"I cannot state any other Reason."

"It is because you knew that this Promise was given to give a Plumper to Mr. Crompton, that you made the Statement you have done?"

"Yes."

"Were you present when Hutchinson was canvassed?"

"I was not; in fact when I say that they gave Plumpers, that is only by Hearsay; I did not hear any one promise."

"Did you ever hear a Freeman promise Mr. Crompton in all your Life?"

"I cannot recollect that I did."

"Is Fox a Burgess?"

"I believe not; no, he is not."

"You have talked about Seventy or Eighty Packets; will you undertake to swear there were so many as Seventy or Eighty?"

"I cannot swear that; it is impossible; to the best of my Recollection, there were from Seventy to Eighty."

"Why do you say, to the best of your Recollection there were from Seventy to Eighty?"

"Because Westby Leadbeater came Two or Three different Times back into the Banking House; he did not take them altogether."

"They were all taken in One Day?"

"They were all taken in One Forenoon; One Day, between Ten and One o'Clock."

"How often did Leadbeater come back?"

"I cannot state; he came back several Times."

"He had a Paper he brought back once?"

"Yes."

"Was that Paper checked when he came back?"

"I do not know; I did not meddle with it."

"You were in the Room at the Time?"

"Yes, but I had no Business with it."

"You had no Business with Leadbeater taking the Money?"

"No; but I could not help seeing him take it; I saw him have the Paper, and I saw him bring it back."

"How often will you undertake to say he came back?"

"I cannot say, indeed, after a Lapse of Eleven Years; a Thing that I had no Concern with, and which has slipped my Memory."

"Do you know how much he took with him?"

"He took Eight or Ten at a Time."

"Did you see him take them up?"

"Yes; they lay upon the Counter for him to take."

"As you had nothing to do with it, did you pay so much Attention as to say he took so many?"

"There was a Paper with the Names of the Parties, I perceived, put before him; I did not pay particular Attention, but I know there were Seven or Eight; but I cannot state precisely."

"Will you undertake to say, upon your Oath, that the Number he took was Seven, Eight or Ten at a Time?"

"Yes, I will swear to Six or Seven, certainly; he would not take less."

"Will you tell me how many Times he went with them?"

"No, I cannot; he went and came a good many Times."

"Do you mean Five Times or Twenty, or Six or Seven Times; will you swear that he took more than Six or Seven Packets at a Time?"

"No, I cannot swear to the Number."

"You have talked about Cottam's Directions; whom did you hear give those Directions?"

"Mr. Fox."

"Did you not state that you did not hear Fox give him Directions?"

"It must have been him; it was not me."

"Then why did you doubt about Fox having given the Directions?"

"The Question you put to me: I could not remember every thing at the first Moment."

"It was not I, but the Counsel for the House; how was it you could not say that Mr. Fox gave those Directions?"

"The first Time I could not say that; but I am satisfied that was so."

"Will you swear that there were Directions given?"

"Yes; Mr. Cottam would not take those Parcels without Directions."

"In point of fact, will you swear that the Directions were given to Cottam?"

"Yes."

"What were they?"

"To take and deliver them according to the Directions."

"Did Cottam come into the Banking House?"

"Yes, he did."

"Will you swear to that Direction having been given?"

"Yes, I will."

"Why did not you say so at first?"

"I was afraid of committing myself by that which was not correct."

"Do you recollect where he was standing?"

"At the Front of the Counter; I was at the Back of the Counter."

"Do you recollect the Time of Day?"

"It was in the Forenoon."

"Was it soon after Breakfast?"

"The Bank does not open 'till near Ten."

"How came you to hesitate at first?"

"Because I was afraid of saying that I could not substantiate."

"How can you substantiate it now?"

"I am positive."

"Will you give any Reason why you recollect it now?"

"I could not have remembered it unless I heard it; and I will swear to that being the Case."

"Where did you go to when you left Retford?"

"I went to one of the Banks at Sheffield."

"Are you now there?"

"Yes."

"Whose is it?"

"Walkers and Stanley."

"Has Mr. Walker been a Candidate for Retford?"

"Mr. Joshua Walker once tried, but I was not there then."

"You did not hear any Promises given to him?"

"No; I lived at Sheffield then."

"But, according to your View, you might have heard Plumpers given. Do you know whether he stood?"

"No."

"Do you know Mr. Henry Walker?"

"I do."

"Did he set up for Retford?"

"He has not done so yet."

"Is he going to do it?"

"I do not know; I once saw an Advertisement-"

"You do not know that he was a Candidate?"

"I saw an Advertisement in a Doncaster Paper which I take in; that is all I know."

"And yet you do not know whether he is a Candidate?"

"I do not."

"And yet he is one of your Employers?"

"Yes; but it is several Months ago since I saw that, or a Year ago, perhaps. I never heard the Subject mentioned since."

"This was Twelve Months ago that Mr. Walker was a Candidate?"

"It may be nearly Twelve; I cannot speak particularly. I once saw that in the Doncaster Paper."

"You have no Doubt what took place Twelve Years ago?"

"Not with regard to that Money."

"Yet you cannot tell what took place about Mr. Walker's standing Twelve Months ago?"

"Because I considered it was of no Importance."

Examined by the Lords.

"Were you the Cashier of the Bank at Retford?"

"I balanced the Cash every Night; I took the Account of Cash every Night."

"Did you deliver out the Cash paid in the Course of the Day; or who did deliver it out?"

"I attended the Customers occasionally, the same as Mr. Fox."

"Not without him?"

"Yes, sometimes."

"Was there any Entry made in the Books of the Money in those Packets?"

"I cannot say now what is in the Books, I am sure."

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

The Counsel were directed to withdraw.

Ordered, That the further Consideration and Second Reading of the said Bill be put off to Friday next; and that the Lords be summoned.

Witnesses discharged from further Attendance on it.

Ordered, That Richard Undy, Robert Hudson, George Bailey, Tom Booth, Joseph Banks, and William Moule be discharged from further Attendance on this House upon the Second Reading of the last-mentioned Bill.

Sheffield Waterworks Bill, Petition against, referred to the Com ee.

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Town and Parish of Sheffield, in the County of York, and some of them Shareholders in the Undertaking for supplying with Water the said Town and Parish, whose Names are thereunto subscribed; taking notice of a Bill depending in this House, intituled, "An Act for better supplying with Water the Town and Parish of Sheffield, in the County of York;" and praying, "That their Lordships will, in Tenderness to the Petitioners, take into their serious Consideration the Case of the Petitioners and the other Inhabitants of the said Town and Parish of Sheffield; and that they may be heard by themselves, Counsel, Agents and Witnesses, against such Parts of the said Bill as affect the Petitioners; and that they, and other the Inhabitants of the said Town and Parish, may have such Relief in the Premises as to their Lordships may seem meet and proper:"

It is Ordered, That the said Petition be referred to the Committee to whom the said Bill stands committed, and that the Petitioners be at liberty to be heard by themselves, Counsel, Agents and Witnesses, against the same, as desired.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Mercurii, decimum nonum diem instantis Maii, horâ decimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.