House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 11 March 1624

Jovis, 11 Martii

Bishop of Coventry.

L. 1a. AN Act of Explanation of a former Act, made 23o Eliz. - An Act for Assurance of the Yearly Rent of 82 l. 10s. to the Bishop of Coventry and Lichfeild, and his Successors, forever, out of certain Manors, Lands, Tenements, and Hereditaments, thereby assured to Edw. Fisher Esquire, and his Heirs.

Morgan.

L. 1a. - Morgan.

Duchy of Cornwall.

Sir Ed. Coke reporteth the Prince his Bill, with Amendments ; which twice read. - Upon Question, to be ingrossed.

Supply.

Mr. Chancellor Exchequer reporteth. - Had been made sooner, if Computations could have been made, what would be lost in the Customs, if a War : Which the Customers cannot as yet do, but shall, at any time hereafter, be ready. -

Will only open the Debt of the King, by the long and deceivable Treaties. -

From 1617, hath spent 145,000 l.

In Entertainment of Ambassadors sent hither; Charge of the Voyage against the Pirates; Ships for the Prince his Journey; Money taken up by the Prince in .....

80,000 l. due to the King of Denmarke, with Interest, in April and July next. - -

Towards all these, 1. . . . . . -

For Ireland; an Establishment begun there, both for Church and Commonwealth, which, pursued, will subsist of itself. -

For the Navy; from 50,000 l. per Annum, besides the King's Timber, brought, these last Five Years, to 30,000 l. Ten new Ships built, besides many Houses for Magazines. -

For the Forts; a Commission, this last Summer, to Sir Rich. Morrison, and .. Ogle; who have made a Certificate of the Charge; which shall be seen, when the House shall please.

Sir Ben. Rudyard: - Want of Parliaments the principal Means of the Growth of all those Grievances, which the Commonwealth now suffereth. - The King's Proposition to us now, how he shall make good that Breach, which we advise him to. - To prepare for our own Security, - To intreat the Lords to join with us in a Committee of a Council of War, to advise of the fittest Means to secure Ireland, our Forts, set out our Navy, and join with the Low Countries. - To present the King with some Present for himself, to sweeten him, besides the Provision for War.

Sir J. Perrott moveth for a select Committee, of 20. or 30, as the House shall think, to consider of the State of the King and Kingdom.

Sir H. Mildmay: - All our Hopes of future Happiness consisteth in this Parliament. Nemo laeditur, nisi a seipso. - To declare ourselves, that, if the King follow our Advice, we will not fail, upon his Declaration, to make good our Advice with Assistance.

Mr. Wentworth : - In the first place, to take Care of the Low Countries. - 1. Whether not fit to send present Supply thither: 2. What Number of Men: 3. What Money will serve for this : 4. What the best Means for Raising of this Money.

Mr. Secretary Conway: - The Thing considerable now, is, if we go on with a Treaty, we lose ourselves, and all; if we break, then consequently a War. - First, to give the King such an Answer, as he may declare himself; then all other Considerations will follow, of War, &c.

Mr. Coryton: - First to declare ourselves to the King, that we will assist him, if he follow our Advice.

Sir Geor. Moore: - 1. To give our Opinions for War: 2ly, That the War will be just; 3ly, How the War shall be supported.

Sir Edw. Cecill remembereth the Declaration made last Parliament. - To have this now made good.

Mr. Alford: - To debate and digest this great Business in the House, before a Committee to be named. - First, to tie ourselves to the Point of the Maintenance of the War, in the first place ; because most pressing for the present. First, in general, to resolve, we will assist: And then 2ly, De modo.

Sir Edw. Sands: - Precipitation most dangerous to Counsel; Delay, to Execution. - One Step this Day. - Now very seasonable to take Consideration of that, which in the Paper last Day presented from the Lords. - No War just, but rebus repetitis, denegat, denunciat. - Not necessary, a War will follow the Breach of the Treaties. - To answer the King, that we will assist him, in following our Advice, to the uttermost of our Abilities; then, upon the King's Declaration of himself, to enter into the Particulars of the Consequences. -

The Consideration of raising Means for the King's Assistance (the State of the Kingdom considered) of great Weight. This cannot be done, but by taking away the Grievances of the People, and restoring the Decay of Trade. - To have now only a general Declaration of our Resolution to assist him in pursuing our Advice. To pray a Conference with the Lords, about returning an Answer to the King. To apply ourselves here to Unity, To beware of any Bones cast in here.

Mr. Brooke: - That the End of Mr. Chancellor's Report was, to let us know, he had disbursed so much, he could do [a] more for War; but, for that, must rely upon us. -

To consider, 1. What is to be done: 2ly, How to, be raised. - To secure Ireland: To assist the Low Countries.

Sir H. Anderson: - Now only to put this Question, whether we will not make good that Advice, we have given his Majesty.

Sir Edw. Coke : - If the Treaty break, then a War of necessary Consequence. Let us never be afraid of War with Spayne. England never richer, than when War with Spayne. -

The War just, even for Recovery of the Palatinate, taken, and with-holden, by Spayne, where the King hath already demanded it. - Not to consult with the Lords about the Supply, which only moveth from us; but about the War. - Delay now dangerous, in respect of the Season of the Year, -

Now to give the King that Satisfaction, that he may declare himself: - Who will not be satisfied with Generals, - Must be generale in particulari. - To have the King's Answer read To-morrow Morning, and then to resolve of a full Answer to it.

Sir Ro. Maunsell: - That, if we take our Time and Opportunity, we may let Spayne see, he holdeth his Greatness from the Courtesy of our Master. - To estimate the Charge of a War, and cast, how it shall be raised.

Sir Wm. Herberte: - To prepare ourselves to give the King Satisfaction by our Answer.

Sir Wm. Strowde: - As we have hitherto joined with the Lords to prepare a Committee, to join with a Committee to be appointed by the Lords. - Now our Answer only to be, that we will chearfully make good our Advice, we have given his Majesty.

Sir Ro. Harley, accordant: - And now only to resolve, whether we will not make good our Advice ; and give the King that Answer.

Mr. Glanvyle: - The Works of this Day, Two: 1. Whether this Course may stand with the King's Conscience and Honour. Wherein we first to give him Satisfaction, in respect of the Taking, and Withholding, the Palatinate. - To set down our Reasons, why the King, in Conscience and Honour, may do this. -

The second Point is, how the King may be assured of Assistance for the Maintenance of a War. -

Last time against the Declaration in the Paper from the Lords; 1. Because all Supplies are to move from us: 2ly, Because the Time then unseasonable. - Not yet seasonable to go to the Lords.

Mr. Solicitor : - The first Part, viz. the King's Conscience and Honour, not put to us; but the last Point only, for Support of a War, if the King declare himself for it. We must needs assist, if the Treaties break; yea, much more, if the Treaties hold. - To begin with, a general

Assent, that he will maintain the Advice we have given. After, to consider of Particulars.

Mr. Whistler moveth, to defer this till To-morrow.

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - Now only seasonable to resolve of an Answer to the King, for Support of our Advice given to the King.

Sir D. Digges: - To declare now, that we will all make good our Advice to the King.

Sir Nath. Rich: - To have this done, not by Question, but by Acclamation.

Mr. Recorder: - Hath no Fear, but the King will follow our Advice. - To prepare a satisfactory Answer to that, the King propones to us; which is, not Matter of War, nor whether, with Honour, or Conscience, he may make War; but, that we will assist him (whatsoever shall happen) in the Following of our Advice.

Resolved, We not to meddle, in our Answer, with any Matter of War.

Resolved, upon Question, That, in pursuit of our Advice, upon his Majesty's Declaration to dissolve both the Treaties, we will be ready to assist with our Persons and Abilities, in a Parliamentary Manner, without One Negative.

Resolved, A select Committee, to prepare this.

Privilege - informing Ambassador of Proceedings.

Sir Ro. Phillippes : - Hopeth to certify the House, within Two or Three Days, that some of the Members of this House, by a secondary Way, acquaint the Spanish Ambassador with our Proceedings.

Supply.

Mr. Attorney-general and Sir Wm. Byrd bring a Message from the Lords; That, according to his Majesty's Commandment, Relation being made, by the Lord Treasurer, to their Lordships, of his Majesty's Estate; and conceiving, the like hath been done here by some Member of this House; that some Doubts there have risen, and like may rise here; for avoiding whereof the Lords desire a Meeting, with all the convenient Speed this House may; where the Prince will be present in Person, to clear all Doubts. - Their Number 24. - No Place, nor Time,

Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer: - That no Doubts here: Therefore to clear that to the Lords, before we admit a Conference.

Sir Edw. Sands: - To admit a Conference, only to hear the Lords. - We no Doubts here, but have, una voce, resolved. - To signify to the Lords, that we have had a Relation here, but no Doubts, but a chearful Resolution.

The Messengers called in, Mr. Speaker telleth them, this House will be ready to give a Meeting, with a proportionable Number, at such Time, and Place, as their Lordships shall think convenient.

Chancellor Exchequer, Mr. Comptroller, Sir Ed. Coke, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Jo. Savyle, Sir Geor. Moore, Sir Ben. Rudyard, Sir Ro. Harley, Mr. Alford, Lord Cavendish, Sir Francis Seymour, Sir Ro. Phillippes, Mr. Treasurer, Two Secretaries of State, Sir D. Digges, Sir Francis Cottington, Sir Tho. Savyle, Mr. Solicitor, Mr. Recorder, Sir Nath. Rich, Sir Wm. Strowde, Sir Ro. Pye, Sir W. Herberte, Sir Jo. Ellyott, Chancellor Duchy, Sir Francis Barrington, Sir Nich. Tufton, Sir M. Fleetewood, Sir H. Poole, Sir Jo. Heppesley, Sir A. St. John, Sir Jo. Hobart, Sir Lewys Watson, Sir Tho. Lucy, Sir Roger North, Sir Ed. Villyers, Sir Peter Hayman, Sir Edw. Cecill, Sir Guy Palmes, Sir Isaac Wake, Mr. Drake, Mr. Glanvyle, Sir H. Fane, Sir Wm. Spencer, Sir Jo. Scudamore, Sir Percy Herberte, Mr. Selden.

Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer to make the Report, and the Two Secretaries of State.

Resolved, upon Question,This Committee shall set down the Prince his Speech, in Writing, upon Conference of their Notes; and that the Two Secretaries, and Mr. Chancellor of theExchequer, shall report it To-morrow Morning.

Declaration.

Sir Edw. Coke, Chancellor Duchy, Sir Tho. Jermyn, Mr. Glanvyle, Mr. Solicitor, Sir Edw. Sands, Mr. Cooke, Sir Jo. Savyle, Mr. Recorder, Sir Nath. Rich, Sir Wm. Fleetewood, Sir B. Rudyard, Committees appointed to pen our Declaration, agreed upon this Day. This to be done this Afternoon.