House of Commons Journal Volume 6
27 October 1648

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 6: 27 October 1648', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 6: 1648-1651 (1802), pp. 62-63. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=25505 Date accessed: 22 October 2014.


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Die Veneris, 27 Octobris, 1648.

Prayers.

Treaty with the King.

RESOLVED, &c. That the King's Answer to that Part of the Proposition, concerning the King's giving his Consent to the Ordinances for settling the Lands of the Bishops upon Trustees, for the Use of the Commonwealth, and for appointing the Sale of those Lands, is not satisfactory: And that the Commissioners do press his Majesty to give his full Consent to those Ordinances, as is desired by the Proposition.

Resolved, &c. That an Instruction be prepared, to be sent to the Commissioners in the Isle of Wight, to authorize and require them to know of his Majesty, What the Particulars of his Exceptions are to the Ordinances mentioned and contained in the Proposition concerning the Church; and to reduce them to a Certainty, and state them, and return them to the Houses.

Mr. Swinfen reports from the Committee Yesterday appointed, the Particulars of the Houses Dissatisfaction in his Majesty's Answer to that Proposition, concerning the Abolishing of Bishops: The which were read, and, upon the Question, assented unto, as they follow:

The Houses, upon serious Consideration and Debate had, upon that Part of the King's last Answer to the Proposition concerning the Taking away and Abolishing of Bishops, and settling the Presbyterian Government, have voted, that it is unsatisfactory: And, in regard the King, in his said Answer, hath rather framed a new Proposition, than consented to that presented to him by the Houses (wherein yet he grants some Part of what the Houses desire); that the Houses may manifest the Clearness of their Proceedings in this Treaty, and their earnest Desires of a blessed Peace; they do assign the Particulars, wherein, as to that Part of the King's Answer, their main Dissatisfaction resteth.

1. That the King doth not utterly abolish the Function and Power of Bishops, as they were formerly in Use within the Kingdoms of England and Ireland, and Dominion of Wales; but only suspendeth the Exercise of their Function as to Ordination, for the Term of three Years, and no more; and the Exercise of their Power, as to other Things, until such Time as Himself, and the Two Houses of Parliament, shall agree of any other Settlement.

2. That, during the Term of Three Years, the King may make Bishops in the old Manner; and, at the End of Three Years, the Exercise of their Function, as to the Point of Ordination in the old Manner, is revived in such of the old Bishops as shall be then living; and in such other new Bishops as the King hath or shall make; it being only expressed, That they shall not ordain without the Counsel and Assistance of Presbyters; which also was practised formerly.

3. Thirdly, That the Form of Church Government, presented to the King by the Houses, is, by his Answer, limited only to the Term of Three Years; and that, at the End thereof, Provision is only made for Ordination in a Way different from what the Houses have proposed; and no certain Way settled for any other Thing concerning Ecclesiastical Discipline and Government, which will be as necessary to be provided as that of Ordination.

And This, the Houses do judge, at the End of the Three Years, will expose the Kingdom to new Distractions; which they desire may be prevented in this Peace.

You are hereby authorized to acquaint his Majesty herewith; and to press him to a full Answer in passing the Church Government, and Abolishing of Bishops, as is propounded by the Proposition.

Resolved, &c. That that Part of the King's Answer to that Part of the Proposition, touching the publick Use of the Directory, and the Taking away of the Book of Common Prayer, wherein he desires to continue the Use thereof for Himself, and his Houshold, until another publick From of Prayer should be agreed on by his Majesty, and his Two Houses, is unsatisfactory.

Mr. Dodderidge, Mr. Wheeler, Colonel Birch, Mr. Weaver, Mr. Bois, or any Two of them, are appointed to withdraw, and peruse the Bill and Ordinances for taking away all Innovations, and Monuments of Superstition; and to state the Differences, and report them forthwith to the House, between the King's Concessions, and the Desires of that Part of the Proposition.

Resolved, &c. That his Majesty's Answer to that Part of the Proposition, as concerns his confirming, by Act of Parliament, the Articles of Christian Religion, is not satisfactory: And that the Commissioners do press the King to give his full Consent thereunto.

Resolved, &c. That this House, out of their Detestation to that abominable Idol the Mass, doth declare, That they cannot admit of, or consent unto, any such Exemption in any Law as is desired by his Majesty, for Exempting of the Queen, and her Family, out of such Act or Acts as are desired by the Proposition to be passed, for a stricter Course to prevent the Hearing or Saying of Mass in the Court, or any other Part of this Kingdom, or the Kingdom of Ireland: And that his Majesty's Answer thereunto is not satisfactory: And that the Commissioners do press his Majesty to give his full Consent to that Part of the Proposition, as it is there desired.

Resolved, &c. That it be referred to the Care of Mr. Serjeant Wilde, Mr. Selden, Mr. Dodderidge, Mr. Maynard, Mr. Sandis, Mr. Miles Corbett, Mr. Nicholas, Mr. John Corbett, Mr. Bois, Mr. Ellis, Mr. Harrington, Mr. Erle, Mr. Lechmere, Mr. Prideaux, Mr. Rigby, Mr. Pelham, Mr. Francis Bacon, Mr. Twisden, Mr. Annesley, Mr. Gott, Mr. Thorpe; and all the Lawyers of the House: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Three of Clock, in Lincoln's Inn Hall, and to consider of, and peruse such Propositions, and Parts of Propositions, as are consented unto by the King; and to reduce them into Bills; and to report them unto the House on Wednesday next: And the Serjeant is to give them notice hereof: And Mr. Dodderidge is to acquaint the Committee with the State of the Matter of Fact, touching the Bill for Suppressing of Innovations, &c.; and the Ordinances propounded by the Commissioners, relating to that Bill; and the Differences between the Bill and those Ordinances: and to prepare a Bill to supply the Defects in that Bill.

Scotch Affairs.

Ordered, That the Gentlemen Members of this House, who were Commissioners in Scotland, be present at the Delivery of the Message by Sir John Cheesley, from the Committee of Estates in Scotland: And that the Lords be desired, that such of the Members of the Lords House, as were Commissioners in Scotland, may likewise be then present.

The Lords Concurrence to be desired herein.

Answer from Lords.

Sir Walter Erle brings Answer from the Lords; That the Lords will send Answer by Messengers of their own, to all the Particulars of the Message carried by him.

Loan by Merchant Adventurers.

An Ordinance for Payment of Ten thousand Pounds, with Interest after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Cent. per Ann. to the Fellowship of Merchant Adventurers, for the Use of the Navy, was this Day read; and, upon the Question, passed; and ordered to be sent to the Lords for their Concurrence.

Mr. Green is appointed to carry it to the Lords: And

He carried the same to the Lords, for their Concurrence, accordingly.

Mr. Green brings Answer from the Lords; That they do agree to the said Ordinance carried to them by him.

Treaty with the King.

Mr.Dodderidge reports from the Committee appointed to consider of the Matter of Fact, and Differences betwixt the Act for suppressing Innovations, and the Ordinances in pursuance of that Act, the said Matter of Fact, and Differences.

Ditto.

Resolved, &c. That the Answer of the King, as touching the Covenant, is not satisfactory.

Ordered, That the House do proceed To-morrow Morning, with the rest of the Propositions, the first Business; nothing to intervene.

Sir J. Danvers.

Ordered, That, To-morrow-sevennight, the whole Business concerning Sir John Danvers be taken into Consideration; and nothing to intervene: And next, the Business concerning Colonel Gould be taken into Consideration.

Treaty with the King.

Sir Robert Harley, Mr. Annesley, Mr. Salwey, Mr. Weaver, Mr. Maynard, Colonel Copley, Sir Wm. Lewis, Colonel Birch, Mr. Dodderidge, Serjeant Wilde, Mr. Wheeler, Mr. Nicholas, Mr. Peck, Mr. Nath. Stephens, Mr. Edward Stephens, Sir John Clotworthy, Mr. Green;

This Committee, or any Three of them, are to consider, How, and in what Manner, the Covenant may be so framed, as it may be presented to the King to be taken by him: And are to meet in Mr. Speaker's Chamber this Afternoon, and to present it to the House To-morrow Morning.

Sir Robert Harley is to take care of it.

Irish Affairs.

A Letter from Colonel Jones, of 18 Octobris 1648, with a Letter of Intelligence to the said Colonel Jones; and a Letter from the Lord Ormond, of 4 Octobris 1648: were this Day read.

Ordered, That the said Letters be referred to the Committee for Irish Affairs, at Derby House, forthwith to send away what Supplies of Provision and Monies shall be needful, to prevent the Mischief intended against Colonel Jones and his Forces in Ireland.

Ordered, That on Monday Morning, the Ordinance for settling Land on Colonel Jones be read.

Ordered, That a Copy of the said Letters out of Ireland be sent to the Commissioners in the Isle of Wight: And that they have Power to acquaint the King with them, and desire his publick Declaration against the Proceedings of the Earl of Ormond in Ireland.

Sir John Clotworthy, Mr. Annesley, Mr. Swynfen, and Sir John Temple, are to prepare a Letter to be sent to the Commissioners to that Purpose.

Treaty with the King.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page;

The Lords commanded us to bring unto you this Vote, upon the King's Answer to the Proposition concerning Church Government: To which the Lords desire your Concurrence.

Fines and Deliuquencies.

Sir Walter Erle carried up to the Lords, for their Concurrence, divers Ordinances concerning Fines and Delinquencies, videlicet, of Sir Thomas Mallett and John Mallett his Son, Henry Binge, John Hamond, Arthur Brookes, Hugh Roberts, Sir Robert Minshull, Thomas Ashton, Sir Thomas Lucas, and John Pigott.

Answer returned by the same Messengers;

The House has considered their Lordships Message; and will send Answer by Messengers of their own.