House of Commons Journal Volume 8
29 January 1667

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 8: 29 January 1667', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 8: 1660-1667 (1802), pp. 685-686. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=26857 Date accessed: 17 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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Die Martis, 29 Januarii, 18 Car. IIdi.

Prayers.

Stanley's Estate.

AN ingrossed Bill to enable Trustees to make Leases for Payment of the Debts, and providing for the Children, of Sir Charles Stanley, was read.

Resolved, &c. That the Bill do pass: And the Title shall be, An Act to enable Trustees to make Leases for Payment of the Debts, and providing for the Children, of Sir Charles Stanley.

And the Lord Ancram is to carry up the Bill to the Lords.

Lady Roos' illegitimate Children.

Mr. Mountague reports from the Committee to which the Bill, sent from the Lords, for Illegitimation of the Children of the Lady Ann Roos, was committed, That the Committee, upon Examination of the Matter (which he reported at large), found the Bill just, and fit to be passed, without any Alteration or Amendment: And delivered the Bill in at the Clerk's Table.

The Bill being read the Third time.

Resolved, &c. That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be agreed to.

And Mr. Mountague is to carry up the Bill to the Lords.

King appoints to be attended.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Wm. Child and Sir John Coell;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have commanded us to acquaint you, That his Majesty had appointed Three of the Clock this Afternoon, to be attended at Whitehall, with the Address from both Houses, on the Behalf of the French Merchants.

Ordered, That these Persons following be appointed to join with the Six Lords, in presenting the Addresses of both Houses to his Majesty, on the Behalf of the Merchants trading to France; viz. Mr. Ashburnham, Sir John Talbott, Mr. Crouch, Mr. Comptroller, Mr. Progers, Sir Jonathan Trelawny, Mr. Coventry, Sir Thomas Gower, Sir Hen. Capell, Sir Thom. Clergis, Mr. Brunckard, Colonel Legg.

Impeachment of Ld. Mordant.

Mr. Prynn reports from the Committee appointed to consider of Precedents relating to the Method of Proceeding upon the Articles of Impeachment against the Lord Viscount Mordant, several Precedents: Which he read; and after, delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Being as followeth; viz.

Parl. Anno, 21 Jac.

In the Lords Journal, 28 Die Maii, 1624, there is this Entry.

"The Lord Marshal also reported, That the said Lords Committees had conceived an Order concerning Matters of Judicature, in hæc verba; viz.

"The Lords of the High Court of Parliament do hold it fit to consider of some Orders for the Tryal of such Persons as shall hereafter be brought before them, and come to Judicature: But the Session being soon to end for this Time, their Lordships hold it fit to declare, now, in general, That as this Court is the highest, from whence others ought to draw their Light, so they do accord the Proceedings thereof to be most clear and equal; as well on the one Side, for the finding out Offences, where there is just Ground; as, on the other Side, in affording all just Means of Defence to such as shall be questioned."

"For the Particulars, they do at this time Order, That, in all Cases of Crime, the Defendants shall have Copies of all Depositions, both pro and contra, after Publication, at convenient time, before the Hearing, to prepare themselves: And also, That if the Defendant shall demand it of the House in due time, they shall have their learned Counsel to assist them in the Defence, whether they be able, by reason of their Healths, to answer in Person, or not; so as they chuse Counsel void of any Exception: And if such Counsel shall refuse, then they are to be assigned as the Court shall think fit."

"This their Lordships do, in all Cases, as well Civil, as Criminal and Capital, hold, That all lawful Helps, cannot before just Judges, make one that is guilty avoid Justice; and, on the other Side, according to his Majesty's most gracious Speech, God defend that an Innocent should be condemned."

"And, for the Calling of the Members of this House unto the Bar, their Lordships hold it fit to be very well weighed, at what Time, and for what Cause, it shall be; and therefore (the Time being over-short) Precedents are to be culled out: And this is to be considered of at the next Meeting."

This being read, the House approved thereof; and ordered the same to be entered in the Journal Book.

Annis 1& 2 Caroli 1.

Impeachment of Ld. Mordant.

The Earl of Bristoll being impeached of High Treason in the House of Lords, by the Duke of Buckingham, and the King's Order; 6 Maii, it was ordered by the Lords, He should have Counsel to plead his Cause.

8 Maii 1624, The Lords made an Order, That a Message should be sent to his Majesty by the Lord Keeper, to know his Pleasure therein: Who, the 8 Maii returned them Answer by the Lord Keeper, "That, by the ancient fundamental Laws used both in Parliament, and all other Courts of Justice, no Counsel was to be allowed or assigned in Cases of Treason: Which he willed to be observed in this Case."

Whereupon, the 15 Maii, the Lords returned this Answer to his Majesty's Message by the Lord Keeper;

"That, before his Majesty's Message 8 Maii, their Lordships had made an Order 6 Maii, That the Earl of Bristoll should have Counsel to plead his Cause: And that their Allowance of Counsel to him, before his Majesty's Message, doth not prejudice his Majesty, as they humbly conceive; because the Lords House, 28 die Maii, 1624 (near Two Years before), when his Majesty (then Prince of Wales) was present in the House, ordered, That, in all Cases, as well Criminal as Capital, the Defendants, if they demand it of the House in due time, shall have their learned Counsel to assist them in their Defence.

17 May, his Majesty returned them this Answer thereto, by the Lord Keeper, "That neither the Judges, nor the King's Counsel, were called, or assenting to that Order, when made: And that neither himself, nor his Counsel, conceived, that the Meaning thereof was, That Counsel should be allowed to any Person impeached in Parliament of High Treason, but only in Cases of Crimes and Misdemeanors not Capital: Yet his Majesty is content, in this Cases of the Earl of Bristoll, prosecuted by his Directions to recede from his Prerogative; and permit him Counsel to advise and plead for him, being prosecuted by his Direction, lest he should seem over-rigorous, or unjust; so as it were not drawn into Precedent in other Cases."

Parl. 6 Apr. Sir George Binion being impeached, by the whole House of Commons, for several Misdemeanors and Crimes; at the Hearing . . the Lords Bar, when the Committees from the House of Commons had opened and pressed the Evidence against him, the Speaker of the Lords House commanded his Counsel (which they formerly assigned unto him) immediately to proceed in his Defence, without Preamble or Impertinencies.

The same Parliament, Gurney Lord Mayor of London being impeached by the whole House of Commons for high Crimes and Misdemeanors, had Counsel assigned him by the Lords, both on the Fifth and Eleventh of July, 1642; and at the Hearing at the Lords Bar, Aug. 1 et 2, they were ordered to proceed in his Defence.

Sep. 30, 1645. This Day was heard the Cause of the Earl of Stamford, Henry Pulton, and others, for assaulting and striking Sir Arthur Haslerigg, a Member of the House of Commons, Mr. Herne, Mr. Glover, and Mr. Hale, now Chief Baron (when the Evidence was given at the Bar againt him by Serjeant Wild, and others of the House of Commons there, nothing was proved against Henry Pulton, one of the Persons impeached), the Earl's Counsel, moved the Lords, That he might be examined as a Witness for him. The Lords agreeing, upon Debate, he should be examined only de bene esse; thereupon the Commons desired Leave to withdraw, and acquaint the Commons House therewith, to . . . . Directions therein. Which was done, accordingly.

And the Precedents being read; and the Matter debated;

The Question being put, That this House acquiesce with the Lords as to the Manner of the Lord Mordant's Deportment to be within the Bar at the Tryal upon the Articles of Impeachment against him;

It passed in the Negative.

The Question being, That this House acquiesce with the Lords, in allowing Counsel to be assigned to the Lord Mordant upon his Tryal;

The House was divided.

The Yeas went forth.

Tellers,

Lord Ancram, For the Yeas, 73.
Sir John Talbott,
Colonel Williams, For the Noes, 41.
Sir Thomas Lee,

And so it was resolved in the Affirmative.

The Question being put, That a Conference be desired with the Lords, to acquaint them, That this House do acquiesce with the Lords, in allowing Counsel to be assigned to the Lord Viscount Mordant upon his Tryal; but are not satisfied as to the Manner of the Lord Mordant's Deportment proposed by the Lords, for his Lordship's sitting within the Bar at his Tryal;

The House was divided.

The Yeas went forth.

Tellers,

Sir Robert Holt, For the Yeas, 49.
Sir Roger Bradshaw,
Sir Solom. Swale, For the Noes, 53.
Colonel Kirkby,

And so it passed in the Negative.

The Question being put, That there be an Addition to the Committee appointed to manage the Evidence at the Hearing upon the Articles of Impeachment against the Lord Viscount Mordant;

The House was divided.

The Yeas went forth.

Tellers,

Sir Thom. Higgons, For the Yeas, 49.
Sir Robert Holt,
Mr. Lowther, For the Noes, 42.
Mr. Whorwood,

And so it was resolved in the Affirmative.

Ordered, That Mr. Solicitor General be added to the Committee appointed to manage the Evidence at the Hearing upon the Articles of Impeachment against the Lord Viscount Mordant.

Poll Bill.

A Bill declaratory, concerning the levying Money by a Poll Bill, was read the First time.

Resolved, &c. That the said Bill be read a Second time on Thursday Morning next.

Rebuilding London.

Resolved, &c. That this House will resume the Debate upon the Bill for rebuilding the City of London, on Thursday Morning, Ten of the Clock.

And then the House adjourned till Thursday Morning, Eight of the Clock.